--- Day changed Fri Aug 25 2017 00:06 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@115.31.156.105] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 00:12 -!- aoeu [49bd0ad0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.10.208] has joined #lightning-dev 00:12 -!- aoeu [49bd0ad0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.189.10.208] has quit [Client Quit] 00:15 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 00:18 -!- JackH [~laptop@46.231.18.66] has joined #lightning-dev 00:37 -!- stiell [~stian@fsf/member/stiell] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:38 -!- stiell [~stian@fsf/member/stiell] has joined #lightning-dev 00:56 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:19 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.59] has joined #lightning-dev 01:26 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56 -!- alreadylate [~textual@37-247-1-221.customers.ownit.se] has joined #lightning-dev 01:58 -!- alreadylate [~textual@37-247-1-221.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Client Quit] 02:19 -!- gmazza [~gianluca@212.91.77.39] has joined #lightning-dev 02:24 < gmazza> hi everybody 02:25 < gmazza> the "CHANNELD_AWAITING_LOCKIN" state should change after 100 confirmations on tx, I'm right? (talking about clightning) 02:25 < gmazza> i'm running with default settings 02:26 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lightning-dev 02:27 -!- sstone [~sstone@3.46-14-84.ripe.coltfrance.com] has joined #lightning-dev 02:56 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11 -!- alreadylate [~textual@37-247-1-221.customers.ownit.se] has joined #lightning-dev 03:26 -!- jtimon [~quassel@173.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lightning-dev 03:44 -!- riclas [riclas@72.210.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lightning-dev 04:24 < rusty1> gmazza: hmm, less than that... 04:33 -!- alreadylate [~textual@37-247-1-221.customers.ownit.se] has quit [] 04:54 -!- alreadylate [~textual@37-247-1-221.customers.ownit.se] has joined #lightning-dev 05:26 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.115] has joined #lightning-dev 05:29 < gmazza> i see that: lightningd(37027): peer 02505bf1977eb146769a71037fd1a8bafbc4650019eba19fddb8c41bd90bc73b00: Peer has reconnected, state CHANNELD_AWAITING_LOCKIN 05:29 < gmazza> lightningd(37027): peer 02505bf1977eb146769a71037fd1a8bafbc4650019eba19fddb8c41bd90bc73b00: Sending canned error 05:34 -!- Netsplit over, joins: gmazza, mr_burdell, takinbo, jannes, stiell 05:35 < gmazza> is that the peer is connected but the channel is still waiting for lockin 05:35 < gmazza> https://pastebin.com/MkYd0DVi 05:35 < gmazza> my logs, https://pastebin.com/M0qkwRfU 05:39 -!- kermie [57d5161e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.213.22.30] has joined #lightning-dev 05:39 < gmazza> *i see that 05:54 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lightning-dev 05:59 -!- alreadylate [~textual@37-247-1-221.customers.ownit.se] has quit [] 06:19 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 06:36 -!- Eliel [~jojkaart@104-250-47-212.rev.cloud.scaleway.com] has joined #lightning-dev 07:11 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:17 -!- ibash [~ibash@198-27-188-45.static.sonic.net] has joined #lightning-dev 07:31 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 07:48 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] sstone opened pull request #231: BOLT 04: update test vectors (master...bolt04-error-testvectors) https://git.io/v5Y27 07:53 -!- ibash [~ibash@198-27-188-45.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 07:57 < HeySteve> is it possible to include messages in LN txs? 08:02 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-178-095-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:14 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-180-182-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #lightning-dev 08:27 -!- JackH [~laptop@46.231.18.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:32 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:45 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 08:55 -!- kermie [57d5161e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.213.22.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:18 -!- gmazza [~gianluca@212.91.77.39] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:25 -!- ibash [~ibash@208.72.139.230] has joined #lightning-dev 09:27 < molz> LN txs don't show up on the blockchain, why would you want to do that? 09:32 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:40 < BlueMatt> lol, why does lnd fail to open a channel with itself? https://cdecker.github.io/lightning-integration/97839c27a65bd75d0ae86e2cc98f6e8d4b27ba72e6338bcac8dd4c1307d0f9e0.html 09:40 < BlueMatt> looks like bad test harness? 09:44 < molz> BlueMatt, why should lnd open a channel with itself? 09:47 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 09:51 < lndbot3> molz not itself but lnd to another lnd :P 09:52 < molz> oh.. english language sucks :P lol 09:56 < molz> justin plus it made me think of this: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/issues/193 and it was squashed! 10:23 -!- sstone [~sstone@3.46-14-84.ripe.coltfrance.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:52 -!- ibash [~ibash@208.72.139.230] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 11:09 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 11:11 -!- rusty1 [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:33 -!- ibash [~ibash@208.72.139.230] has joined #lightning-dev 11:54 -!- ibash [~ibash@208.72.139.230] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 11:56 -!- ibash [~ibash@208.72.139.230] has joined #lightning-dev 12:03 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 12:08 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:16 -!- ibash [~ibash@208.72.139.230] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:24 -!- jtimon [~quassel@173.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:27 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 12:28 -!- Jiamond [~Jiamond@c-71-226-79-6.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:31 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 12:33 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:50 < HeySteve> molz, such a feature could be used to create a descriptive tx record 12:51 < HeySteve> time and amount would be recorded, right? but I'm interested in the purpose of txs 12:53 < molz> huh? 12:55 < HeySteve> [17:04] is it possible to include messages in LN txs? 12:55 < HeySteve> [18:34] LN txs don't show up on the blockchain, why would you want to do that? 12:55 < molz> right 12:58 < lndbot3> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/blob/master/11-payment-encoding.md <-- there are a couple of fields that can be used in *payment requests* to tie payments to descriptions/messages 12:59 < molz> you can put a memo in your invoice 12:59 < HeySteve> thanks alex 12:59 -!- ibash [~ibash@208.72.139.230] has joined #lightning-dev 12:59 < HeySteve> and molz, good to know 13:00 < molz> there're other more important things that need to be worked on right now so i was thinking if you asked for a msg like what bitcoin has for an op_return msg, that's not the priority 13:02 < HeySteve> not a priority for developers, no. I'm interested in setting up a service/node to "get the graph" between vendors and buyers 13:05 < HeySteve> automatically generating records of what goods or services were purchased would be great, seems this could be best done via payment requests? 13:06 < molz> i've been asking for a list of "received payments" in lnd, we still don't have that 13:06 < molz> when we do "lncli listpayments" it's a list of the payments you sent/spent 13:08 < molz> and "lncli listinvoices" can show you all the invoices for your "received payments' but also include unpaid invoices 13:09 < HeySteve> right. but to put it in simple terms, I'm Bob and I'd like to see *what* Alice bought from Carol, not just for how much and when 13:09 < molz> what i'd like is "lncli receivedpayments" that includes all the received payments but we don't have it 13:10 < molz> more likely if that's what you want then it has to be coded in house for what you need 13:13 < HeySteve> so Alice and Carol would need to be use my special wallet? 13:21 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23 -!- ibash [~ibash@208.72.139.230] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:24 < molz> no clue, you figure it out 13:26 < molz> i was saying your business bookkeeping might not be the same as others, so it might be better to figure out how you want to keep your records according to your needs 13:26 < lndbot3> bob isn't going to see any details of what happens between alice and carol... if the connectivity is alice-bob-carol, bob doesn't even know that alice is paying carol (it could be dan paying alice to pass the payment along to bob to pass it along to carol to pass it along to erin) 13:27 < lndbot3> onion routing is intentionally privacy-preserving, intermediaries can't tell who the payer or payee are 13:28 < HeySteve> ah right, start and endpoint are unknown 13:33 < HeySteve> perhaps if the payment request were to be routed through Bob, he could then identify any corresponding payment from A to C 13:34 < afdudley> zcash seems to support bitcion HTLCs now. 13:34 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lightning-dev 13:35 < lndbot3> bob never sees who's paying whom for what 13:36 -!- jtimon [~quassel@173.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lightning-dev 13:36 < afdudley> HeySteve: not just with that. they would need to get that information some place else, LN never leaks it. 13:39 < HeySteve> hmm but surely Bob knows Carol's address to which he sends the BTC in exchange for Carol's secret? 13:40 < lndbot3> he doesn't know it's carol's secret... it could be erin's or dan's or... 13:41 < lndbot3> carol just passes it back to bob when she gets it from the next hop 13:42 < HeySteve> alex, yes I understand. what I'm wondering about is Carol sending a payment request through Bob to Alice. the request would state Carol is the recipient plus details of the product / service. it would also mention Alice 13:43 < HeySteve> (as the initial sender) 13:43 -!- alreadylate [~textual@c-250e71d5.153-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lightning-dev 13:46 < afdudley> HeySteve: have you read the lightning-rfcs? None of that stuff is in there. that's all outside of lightning and goes to my above point. Yes, of course someone can completely destroy their privacy, but the protocol preserves it. 13:47 < HeySteve> right. what I want to do runs a bit contrary to the inherent privacy features 13:50 < lndbot3> carol wouldn't send a payment request through bob to alice if bob's just a pure lightning node; payment requests are sent outside LN (and hopefully directly from carol to alice over a TLS connection on which bob can't eavesdrop) 13:50 < afdudley> It sounds like you want to make a completely different protocol that tracks this extra information for you. whatever application you're making would use your new protocol "on top" of lightning providing the metadata you're curious about. 13:50 < lndbot3> if bob runs a service to which both carol and alice subscribe which forwards such payment requests, and if carol and alice both volunteer to give that information to bob, that's a different story and completely outside LN 13:52 < HeySteve> alex and afdudley, sounds exactly right, yes 13:53 < HeySteve> I am thinking of a voluntary service in which Bob gets as much data as possible 13:54 < HeySteve> no KYC or AML though, which should cap the potential evils 13:54 -!- ibash [~ibash@208.72.139.230] has joined #lightning-dev 13:54 < HeySteve> and there could be great benefits to both Alice and Carol 13:56 < HeySteve> Carol could get auto-generated inventory data. Alice could get discounts, assuming someone wants to pay for all the captured data 14:06 -!- alreadylate [~textual@c-250e71d5.153-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 14:07 -!- alreadylate [~textual@c-250e71d5.153-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lightning-dev 14:08 < afdudley> doesn't sounds very cypherpunk to me 😄 14:10 < afdudley> It sounds like the app would have it's own wallet derived from a LN wallet. 14:10 < HeySteve> it isn't, this is only for normies who wouldn't otherwise touch Bitcoin 14:11 < HeySteve> let me give you a use case, might make more sense then 14:11 < afdudley> users would have an identity within your system that has "nothing" to do with LN or the networks it supports. 14:11 < afdudley> I don't think I need a use-case. 14:14 < afdudley> It sounds like you want to be an intermediary for the purposes of reselling purchasing behaviors, not my favorite idea ever. 14:14 < HeySteve> that's essentially correct 14:14 < HeySteve> but consider what happens when cash is entirely phased out 14:14 < afdudley> And if you want to do the disintermediated version of that idea, which is something I've spent a lot of time thinking about, you're worrying about the wrong part of the stack... 14:15 < HeySteve> better to be on this system without any personally-identifying info than on the bank system 14:16 < HeySteve> also consider the possible benefits to consumer (discounts, reputation system) and vendor (free inventory, business analytics & advertising) 14:17 < afdudley> PII isn't necessary for deanonymization. 14:17 < afdudley> Yeah, i've thought about all these issues extensively for a number of years. 14:17 < HeySteve> true, it's not, lots of metadata will do it, especially as there'll probably be location info too 14:19 < HeySteve> but why would a vendor care about being deanonymized in any case? they're trading licit goods publically 14:20 < HeySteve> deanonymization is just another word for advertising, in this context 14:35 < molz> vendors do care about their privacy like how much money they make 14:41 < HeySteve> that's a fair point but many vendors list on online marketplaces 14:45 -!- alreadylate [~textual@c-250e71d5.153-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 14:47 -!- alreadylate [~textual@c-250e71d5.153-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lightning-dev 14:58 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:00 -!- ibash [~ibash@208.72.139.230] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 15:14 < molz> vendors list their income how much they make on online marketplaces? 15:21 < roasbeef> BlueMatt: dunno, that obs works lol. will be digging into the framework heavy this weekend to weed out the current imcompatabliities across diff impls 15:22 < roasbeef> molz: if you look at the invoices, you'll see a "settled" bool, can use that to reconstruct hte list as it's possible to add other meta-data 15:23 < molz> roasbeef, hm ok, thanks 15:23 < BlueMatt> roasbeef: yea, figure its a test framework issue 15:27 < HeySteve> molz: not publically but that's not what I propose, Bob is like eBay 15:48 -!- alreadylate [~textual@c-250e71d5.153-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 16:10 -!- alreadylate [~textual@c-250e71d5.153-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lightning-dev 16:10 -!- alreadylate [~textual@c-250e71d5.153-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 16:25 < Emcy> of you open a channel with someone and you out up 10btc and they put up 10btc so the sum commitment is 20btc. Does that mean you can send max 10btc outgoing, or 20btc? 16:27 < BlueMatt> 10 16:27 < BlueMatt> (ignoring routing, obviously) 16:27 < Emcy> alright, thats what i thought 16:27 < Emcy> if it were 20 that would create some weird incentives i think 16:50 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@unaffiliated/takinbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@unaffiliated/takinbo] has joined #lightning-dev 17:07 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@unaffiliated/takinbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20 -!- HeySteve [~0000@unaffiliated/heysteve] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@unaffiliated/takinbo] has joined #lightning-dev 17:35 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@unaffiliated/takinbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:48 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@unaffiliated/takinbo] has joined #lightning-dev 17:49 < molz> lol.. why do some people think LN will give them money out of thin air 17:52 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:56 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.115] has joined #lightning-dev 18:13 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:29 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #lightning-dev 18:34 < lndbot3> if anyone needs test coins to test Litecoin LN please let me know, i have plenty 19:28 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:54 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@unaffiliated/takinbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:11 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@unaffiliated/takinbo] has joined #lightning-dev 20:22 -!- riclas [riclas@72.210.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:47 -!- Sentineo [~Undefined@node.chcembitcoin.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54 -!- Sentineo [~Undefined@node.chcembitcoin.sk] has joined #lightning-dev 23:05 -!- sh_smith [foobar@cpe-76-174-26-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:07 -!- sh_smith [foobar@cpe-76-174-26-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 23:25 -!- jtimon [~quassel@173.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:35 < lndbot3> moli is sybil attacking this channel :P 23:41 < Emcy> wat