--- Day changed Thu Dec 21 2017 00:05 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 00:08 -!- sandeep [~d1g1t@pdpc/supporter/active/d1g1t] has joined #lightning-dev 00:09 -!- JackH_ [~laptop@host-80-43-140-59.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:09 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 00:10 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 00:17 -!- blyat_ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 00:20 -!- blyat__ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36 -!- Lukehanson [9d300e9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.157.48.14.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:59 -!- Kozuch [~Kozuch@81.0.198.168] has joined #lightning-dev 01:13 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@92.154.68.134] has joined #lightning-dev 01:20 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 01:21 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25 -!- Styil [~Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45 -!- wxss [~user@194.88.105.17] has joined #lightning-dev 02:00 -!- surj [~nick@CPE64777dde7433-CM64777dde7430.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:02 < rusty> achow101: hope you're ok that I mangled your https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/pull/436 but you didn't respond and all those reversed IDs were a continual source of pain... 02:08 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-140-59.as13285.net] has joined #lightning-dev 02:09 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lightning-dev 02:22 -!- blyat__ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 02:23 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 02:25 -!- blyat_ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:25 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #lightning-dev 02:27 -!- Emcy_ [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:36 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has joined #lightning-dev 02:41 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:42 -!- ougha_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/ougha] has joined #lightning-dev 02:42 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 02:42 -!- leechoe [9d300e9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.157.48.14.159] has joined #lightning-dev 02:44 < leechoe> What is the -r tag in payment used for? If A wants to send to B, he can send A->C->B and some other routes. Is -r tag used to force a specific route? For example, can the -r tag suggest A to send A->D->B? 02:45 <+roasbeef> leechoe: it can be used to recommend a specific route, or give the sender a route thru a channel they may not know about 02:46 <+roasbeef> for example, I prob won't advertise the channels on my phone as they aren't available for routing 02:46 <+roasbeef> so I can give ppl that want to pay me a routing hint so they can still send payments to me 02:46 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:55 -!- surj [~nick@CPE64777dde7433-CM64777dde7430.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lightning-dev 03:00 -!- surj [~nick@CPE64777dde7433-CM64777dde7430.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:04 < MaxSan1> nice 03:05 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 03:19 -!- jtimon_ [~quassel@164.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:20 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 03:20 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 03:22 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 03:48 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 03:54 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has joined #lightning-dev 03:54 -!- MaxSan1 [~user@46.19.137.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:55 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has quit [Client Quit] 03:58 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has joined #lightning-dev 04:11 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 04:15 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15 < leechoe> does BOLT make any recommendation that in case of 2 routes , the cheapest should be chosen? (assuming same `cltv_expiry_delta` ) 04:16 -!- tumi_ is now known as tumi 04:18 <+roasbeef> leechoe: nope, decisions like that are pure policy and are up to the implementation 04:18 < cdecker> You should chose randomly in order not to leak private information though 04:25 < leechoe> thanks. how privacy leak? 04:27 -!- blyat_ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 04:28 < cdecker> If you always choose the cheapest route it's pretty easy for people to be on that route by asking no fees, so all your payments go through their channel and, if they are next to you, they can probably associate those payments with you 04:29 < cdecker> Randomly choosing a route among the cheapest k routes is much better, since they can A) no longer see all your payments, and B) they are now in doubt whether a payment actually originates from you or someone that just randomly picked you as part of the route 04:30 -!- blyat__ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:32 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 04:38 -!- riclas [riclas@72.210.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lightning-dev 04:40 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 04:43 < leechoe> Ah, thankyou. 04:54 < cdecker> No prob :-) 04:54 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lightning-dev 04:56 -!- surj [~nick@CPE64777dde7433-CM64777dde7430.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lightning-dev 05:01 -!- surj [~nick@CPE64777dde7433-CM64777dde7430.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:05 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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It's ok 08:20 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 08:21 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:23 -!- sstone [~sstone@3.46-14-84.ripe.coltfrance.com] has joined #lightning-dev 08:27 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has joined #lightning-dev 08:29 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 08:34 -!- pm__ [~pm@11.46-14-84.ripe.coltfrance.com] has joined #lightning-dev 08:36 -!- zshlyk is now known as intcat 08:36 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:37 -!- blyat_ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 08:39 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lightning-dev 08:39 -!- blyat__ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:40 < intcat> any chance the git bot can just be in the channel? that way this doesn't have to be -n 08:41 < pm__> PSA for anybody having trouble paying starblocks, its because I've uniclosed all channels to endurance yesterday 08:42 < molz> haha pm__ thanks :D 08:42 < pm__> current setup is -- endurance -- starblocks 08:42 < molz> what does that mean? if i may as 08:42 < pm__> yeah should probably have announced it here before 08:42 < molz> ask* 08:43 < pm__> since the only way to route to starblocks is through endurance, starblocks was isolated from the network 08:43 < molz> yesterday i couldn't open a channel with anyone not just endurance.. so I deleted the app and reinstalled it (eclair mobile wallet) and now it works 08:43 < molz> also probaly something is wrong with my phone since it's been dropped so many times 08:44 < pm__> hmm that's weird 08:44 < pm__> fwiw I'm reworking the connection part, that should allow for better error reporting 08:48 < molz> pm__, is there a max size of database that Eclair mobile app can handle? and then when it's so full we have to delete/reinstall the app? 08:48 < pm__> no there isn't, but it is currently heavily under-optimized 08:48 < pm__> we are working on this 08:48 < molz> ah ok, thanks 08:49 < pm__> noob question: what is lndbot? a bridge between 2 irc channels? 08:53 < molz> a bridge to the lnd slack 08:56 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-140-59.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:58 -!- nustiudinastea [~nustiudin@178.128.251.161.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:58 -!- surj [~nick@CPE64777dde7433-CM64777dde7430.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lightning-dev 09:03 -!- surj [~nick@CPE64777dde7433-CM64777dde7430.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:04 < pm__> ok thanks 09:15 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-44.as13285.net] has joined #lightning-dev 09:16 -!- sandeep [~d1g1t@pdpc/supporter/active/d1g1t] has quit [Quit: sandeep] 09:24 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 09:29 -!- surj [~nick@CPE64777dde7433-CM64777dde7430.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lightning-dev 09:30 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 09:37 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…] 12:16 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has joined #lightning-dev 12:27 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 12:35 -!- nustiudinastea [~nustiudin@178.128.251.161.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lightning-dev 12:36 -!- nustiudi_ [~nustiudin@163.172.159.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:37 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:47 -!- blyat_ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 12:50 -!- blyat__ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:50 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 12:53 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:54 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:54 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Client Quit] 13:01 < pm__> can alexbosworth read this? 13:06 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has joined #lightning-dev 13:08 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08 -!- pm__ [~pm@11.46-14-84.ripe.coltfrance.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:09 < lndbot1> Yes 13:10 < surj> rusty: you are a legendary thank you for helping writing the spec!! 13:10 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 13:13 -!- jb55 [~jb55@2605:8d80:4c3:766c:a2af:bdff:fef0:c102] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:21 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23 -!- spudowiar [~spudowiar@unaffiliated/saleemrashid] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0] 13:39 -!- Kozuch [~Kozuch@81.0.198.168] has joined #lightning-dev 13:48 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:09 -!- pm__ [~pm_@80.12.34.134] has joined #lightning-dev 14:09 < pm__> alexbosworth: I can't connect to the htlc.me node is the uri still 025f9a400fce23c91ead02c18236f8c88ff7ec68e6108b0529e9440cff34def4fa@45.63.87.131? 14:10 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 14:12 < lndbot1> yes that’s correct, what is your public key? 14:13 < pm__> I'm connecting from 03933884aaf1d6b108397e5efe5c86bcf2d8ca8d2f700eda99db9214fc2712b134 14:13 < pm__> trying to figure out possible connection issues eclair/lnd 14:13 < lndbot1> Is this Endurance? 14:13 < pm__> yep 14:14 < lndbot1> I tried to connect to you earlier and lnd says the connection is still pending, that may be the issue 14:14 < lndbot1> let me cycle lnd 14:14 < pm__> can you try now? 14:14 < pm__> ok 14:16 < lndbot1> will try updating 14:17 < lndbot1> pm__ try connecting now? 14:19 < pm__> failed 14:20 < pm__> it's not even a crypto handshake issue, I just can't connect 14:20 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 14:21 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 14:41 < lndbot1> pm__ how about 02011549da333502f4c7ff2395ee5d110ab865d55f580fb360799f4f95e1be9066@45.77.115.33 does that work? 14:41 -!- jb55 [~jb55@d108-172-210-7.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lightning-dev 14:47 < pm__> alexbosworth: yes this one works fine, I created channel 9815b0edcf52242d94a4d8bba5e44eebee6757ad27fddf359cbeaf978cdd936e 14:49 < lndbot1> That is on an older commit, maybe on a newer commit there is a connection issue? 14:49 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has joined #lightning-dev 14:51 < pm__> roasbeef: you here? 14:52 -!- blyat__ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 14:55 -!- blyat_ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:02 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03 < pm__> alexbosworth: how about when you try to initiate the connection? 15:04 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 15:04 < lndbot1> It didn’t give me an error but it stayed as ‘pending’ 15:05 < lndbot1> I’d have to debug to see what is going wrong 15:07 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 15:20 -!- jb55 [~jb55@d108-172-210-7.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:24 -!- surj [~nick@CPE64777dde7433-CM64777dde7430.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:35 -!- molz is now known as mlz 15:39 -!- pm__ [~pm_@80.12.34.134] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:41 -!- Cogito_Ergo_Sum [~Myself@unaffiliated/cogito-ergo-sum/x-7399460] has quit [] 15:47 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] shannona opened pull request #339: BOLT-4 Re-Edits (master...bolt4) https://git.io/vbSjc 15:50 < BlueMatt> hmmm, why cant I find the test vectors from bolt 3 in lnd or elements/lightning? 15:50 -!- nustiudinastea [~nustiudin@178.128.251.161.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Quit: Out] 15:50 < BlueMatt> also, is it just me or are the test vectors in bolt 3: appendix c missing the htlc keys base? 15:53 < rusty> BlueMatt: yes, the htlckeys were added at the last minute, so the keys used here are actually the same as the local/remote key. That definitely needs updating, since it invites confusion. 15:54 < BlueMatt> yea, the nomenclature around "localkey" and "remotekey" being secretly from the "payment" basepoint is confusing 15:56 < rusty> BlueMatt: also, lightningd/test/run-key_derive.c generates it. 15:57 < BlueMatt> ah, it also kinda sucks that the per_commitment_point is not derived from a commitment_secret but instead provided 15:57 < BlueMatt> if you're gonna update those vectors, should change that, too 15:58 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 15:58 < rusty> BlueMatt: OK, I just re-read. Actually, it's generic key generation routines, so it should just note that it applies to htlckey as well. 15:59 < BlueMatt> rusty: yes, but "localkey" is used specifically to refer to payment_basepoint-derived keys as well 15:59 < BlueMatt> which really sucks 15:59 < BlueMatt> it really should be local_paymentkey to be in the same nomenclature as is used for delayed/htlc keys 16:01 < rusty> BlueMatt: "localkey" is always derived from payment basepoint, like everything else. 16:01 < BlueMatt> yes, my point was simply that that was confusing 16:01 < rusty> A diagram would help, though. 16:01 < BlueMatt> errr, maybe your point 16:01 < BlueMatt> anyway, no reason to call it "localkey" instead of "local_paymentkey" 16:02 < BlueMatt> cause delayed_payment_basepoint -> local_delayedkey, htlc_basepoint -> local_htlckey, payment_basepoint -> localkey 16:03 < rusty> Well, logically local_delayedpaymentkey then... 16:03 < rusty> Naming is hard :( 16:03 < BlueMatt> heh, I like verbose names 16:03 < BlueMatt> anyway, just a comment, reading through it I had to check "wait, which one is just localkey, again" like 5 times 16:03 < BlueMatt> the others i was not confused 16:04 < rusty> Yes, originally it was the only key, then it got split. And split again... 16:04 < BlueMatt> yup, got it 16:08 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] rustyrussell opened pull request #340: BOLT 3: note that key derivation test vectors apply to HTLC keys too. (master...bolt3-note-tests-apply-to-htlckey) https://git.io/vb9e5 16:09 < rusty> ^BlueMatt 16:09 < rusty> I still think an ASCII art diag would work well, but I'm old :) 16:14 < BlueMatt> rusty: wait, huh 16:14 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14 < BlueMatt> I was referring to apendix C 16:14 < BlueMatt> not E 16:16 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 16:20 < rusty> BlueMatt: Ah, yes. Those need regen. 16:20 < rusty> Bug filing now. 16:22 < rusty> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/issues/341 16:25 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] rustyrussell closed pull request #334: BOLT5 copy edit - part 2 (master...bolt5-copy-edit-part-2) https://git.io/vbPAo 16:31 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 16:40 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] rustyrussell pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vb9fA 16:40 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- lightning-rfc/master 2551b60 Matt Corallo: BOLT 3: fix secret gen requirements layout... 16:43 -!- jb55 [~jb55@2605:8d80:4c0:a32f:a2af:bdff:fef0:c102] has joined #lightning-dev 16:43 -!- cornben [~cornben@50-39-110-98.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lightning-dev 16:54 -!- jb55 [~jb55@2605:8d80:4c0:a32f:a2af:bdff:fef0:c102] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:57 -!- blyat_ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 17:00 -!- blyat__ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:02 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lightning-dev 17:12 -!- nirved [~nirved@2a02:8071:b58a:3c00:497b:fad9:5986:8106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:13 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:13 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 17:15 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 17:27 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 17:42 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-micghrinihggzvij] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:48 -!- chomp [~chomp@181.169.229.25] has joined #lightning-dev 17:48 -!- Kozuch [~Kozuch@81.0.198.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:54 -!- AntiNu_ [4db4d7a4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.180.215.164] has joined #lightning-dev 18:00 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:07 -!- riclas [riclas@72.210.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:17 < BlueMatt> rusty: still around? 18:18 < rusty> BlueMatt: yep! 18:19 < BlueMatt> rusty: so I'm likely being dense, can you explain a bit more about how the htcl-success/htlc-timeout stuff works? specifically, given the htcl txn have an output script that is just "revocation key or delay + local sig" what am I missing as to why you cant push that directly into the htlc output script with appropriate CLTV's? 18:20 < BlueMatt> also, lacking that, doesnt that imply that for non-revoked on-chain settlement doesnt that imply you have to have an additional storage of sigs they sent you over htlc txn? 18:22 < rusty> It used to be direct, but the delays add up. So, if you want 144 block CSV delay, say, because you want to be offline for 24 hours without problems, now al HTLCs also need to be >= 144 block deltas. 18:23 < BlueMatt> also, isnt the htlc output script trying to be too clever for its own good? eg "OP_SIZE 32 OP_EQUAL" = multiple bytes in the witness, which could be replaced with...just as many bytes in the same witness to select an if path... 18:23 < rusty> The split transactions allow you to have tight HTLC delays, because you can redeem or timeout the HTLC while the output is still (effectively) CSV delayed. 18:24 < rusty> You don't need the extra sig storage, no. 18:24 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26 < BlueMatt> ok, I'm still missing something.... 18:26 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 18:26 < rusty> BlueMatt You could put a flag in the witness, but then you open yourself up to https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/issues/295 18:26 < rusty> BlueMatt: OK... 18:27 < BlueMatt> ahah, yes, yay witness malleation :/ 18:28 < BlueMatt> yea, sorry, trying to formulate useful question 18:30 < BlueMatt> rusty: but why dont you need to store the sig? eg lets say i offer bob an htlc, then bob dissapears, so i hit the chain with the current commitment tx, so now i want to claim the htlc-timeout tx with a timeout....but I'd need the sig 18:31 < rusty> Yes, you need to store the sig for each HTLC for the current commitment tx, indeed. And they need to send them to you. 18:31 < rusty> We may end up dropping this if watchtowers become so ubiquitous that nobody freaks out about this any more. Would save some computation 18:31 < BlueMatt> okok, yes, that was my question, so to outsource you'd need to *also* send current htlc txn sigs 18:31 < BlueMatt> yea, I really dont think its worth having, but, eh, what do i know 18:31 < rusty> BlueMatt: yes, though the primitive watchtowers only claim the reserve, and let the htlcs go. 18:32 < rusty> The idea being that you don't allow too much in HTLCs at once... 18:33 < BlueMatt> heh, i mean or you can just limit # of htlcs at once 18:33 < BlueMatt> same effect 18:36 < BlueMatt> ok, think i got it, thanks 18:38 < BlueMatt> ok, so you also can never allow the value in the channel to you to be lower than the max you ever had pending in htlcs to me 18:38 < BlueMatt> ie cause otherwise I'll go and post that old state and steal the htlc outputs in the same block 18:38 < BlueMatt> cause they will have timed out 18:38 -!- cornben1 [~cornben@66-87-113-239.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lightning-dev 18:38 -!- cornben1 [~cornben@66-87-113-239.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:39 < BlueMatt> err, no, you can never allow the value in the channel to me to the lower than the max you ever had pending in htlcs to me 18:40 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40 -!- Emcy_ [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #lightning-dev 18:40 < BlueMatt> ie channel_reserve_satoshis * 1000 should be roughly equal to max_htlc_value_in_flight_msat? 18:41 -!- cornben [~cornben@50-39-110-98.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:41 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 18:42 < rusty> BlueMatt: depends on whether you *know* I'm offline, too. 18:43 < BlueMatt> hmm? which does? 18:43 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:43 < rusty> BlueMatt: when you post old state, if I come back before timeout, you lose. Frankly, watcher could just send you an SMS :) 18:44 < rusty> s/you/me/ in this example 18:44 < BlueMatt> nono, i meant now-timed-out htlcs 18:45 < BlueMatt> ie because htlcs may expire based on cltv, if at some point the new value to me is lower than the value of some old commit tx's htlcs where all those htlcs are now expired (ie i get to take them) I'll just post that old one and take them all in the same block 18:45 < BlueMatt> can even mine that block to make sure you have no chance, as I would not be in any rush 18:50 -!- cornben [~cornben@66-87-113-239.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lightning-dev 18:58 -!- cornben1 [~cornben@172.56.42.54] has joined #lightning-dev 18:58 -!- cornben1 [~cornben@172.56.42.54] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:01 -!- cornben [~cornben@66-87-113-239.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02 -!- blyat__ [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 19:04 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit 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