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02:27 < bahtman> If you have a channel in the LN, and some tx traverse the channel one way, will that TX lower the amount of money in the channel whereas if it goes the other way it will raise the money in the channel?
02:31 < lndbot1> <john-sr> Does neutrino detect other party cheating?
03:06 < AndyS2> bahtman: the channel retains the amount that was used to fund it. but what each party gets out of the channel once its closed is changed. 2 btc funding, 1 btc on each side initially, if you pay, it oculd be 0.9 btc on your side, 1.1 btc on the other persons side
03:06 < AndyS2> still sums up to 2btc, though
03:06 < AndyS2> depending on the direction of the ln tx (who pays who),that ratio changes accordingly
03:07 < AndyS2> which could mean one has nearly 2BTC and the other nearly no funds in the end
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03:08 < molz> that's why it's called "*payment* channel", you get in the channel to transact, to pay your bills in exchange for goods such as coffee, drinks, hamburgers
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03:09 < molz> and channels can be opened with only funding by one party, not two
03:11 < bahtman> molz: thanks.  But the outside transactions using the channel, do they also influence the balance in the channel? Such that it might cause a flux going one-way? If so, how can the channel owners keep the balance constant regardless without stopping others from using the channel?
03:11 < bahtman> And AndyS2 !
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03:12 < molz> what's "the outside transactions using the channel"?
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03:15 < bahtman> I dont need a channel with you, molz, to send/receive as long as both of us have a connection with AndyS2, right. Then i might use several other channels as an outsider, right? But then i might change balances along the way, or?
03:18 < molz> sure, if i have a channel with Starbucks and i'm about to spend all my money, you also have a channel with starbucks and there's routes you can send me some money, sure, my balance gets refilled via starbucks so i can buy more coffee
03:19 < bahtman> Ok, i cant make myself clear.
03:21 < bahtman> If i send money to starbucks, using you as an intermediary, because you have an already existing channel with starbucks - does that change the balance in the channel between you and starbucks?
03:25 < bahtman> If it does, you might end up in a situation where there is a flux of currency going only one way, depleting the funds (in the channel) of one side?
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03:48 < Eelis> does this look familiar to anyone?:   go/src/github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/macaroons/auth.go:63: undefined: metadata.FromContext
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04:00 <+roasbeef> Eelis: did you do glide install before hand? 
04:05 < Eelis> hmm, no, i just assumed it was a regular go package
04:05 < Eelis> so i only did "go get"
04:07 < Eelis> ugh, ok i'll try the extra stuff
04:08 < Eelis> seems the lnd installation instructions also assume that one's GOPATH doesn't include colons
04:09 < Eelis> (mine does)
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04:14 < Eelis> oh well, works with glide, thanks
04:15 < Eelis> i foolishly thought that with go trying to make everything simple, "go get" was already the package management system :)  had no idea there's multiple systems
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04:16 < Eelis> so now i guess every time i want to install a go package, i have to stop and first figure out which package management system it's using
04:16 < Eelis> or risk obscure compilation errors
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06:43 < Eelis> hm, peer bootstrap doesn't seem to be working for me with lnd. it tries a bunch of different addresses but every one of them is "unable to connect", with "EOF" as the error
06:44 < Eelis> i'm using lnd --bitcoin.active --bitcoin.testnet --debuglevel=debug --neutrino.active --neutrino.connect=faucet.lightning.community
06:45 < Eelis> last part of the log: http://codepad.org/EuRz9W0Z
06:51 < Eelis> hmm, i found https://github.com/lightninglabs/lightning-app/issues/26
06:53 < Eelis> i see. does this mean that the dns seed idea mechanism will need to be redesigned to take into account this truncation?
06:54 < Eelis> -idea
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07:10 < Eelis> i wonder if it would be technically possible to change the opening on-chain transaction of a lightning payment channel to include the relevant node/channel identifiers, so that one could bootstrap by just looking at recent opening transactions on the blockchain
07:10 < Eelis> instead of all this dns seed nastyness
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12:07 <+roasbeef> Eelis: I count abot 70-80 reachable nodes or so on the network, the EOF stuff isn't an issue really just nodes that aren't there anymore, or are no longer listening, have changed their pubkeys, etc. 
12:07 <+roasbeef> Eelis: bloating the chain with unnecessary information would be nastier :p 
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13:27 < Eelis> does "lncli describegraph" basically return the whole graph or just a small local view of it?
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13:27 < Eelis> after running lnd for several more hours it finally seems to have gotten past the bootstrap drama
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15:58 <+roasbeef> Eelis: it returns your view 
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16:08 < Eelis> i see, thanks. if i were a node with some channels that i wanted to make available to the network, then to make my channels visible to as many other nodes as possible, what are some typical things i could do?  would it be appropriate to read about stuff like the Barabase-Albert model to find out how to get favoured by lnd's autopilot channel selection?
16:10 < Eelis> or is that irrelevant?
16:10 < Eelis> *Barabasi
16:14 < Eelis> i guess lowering fees on my ends of the channels would help to advertise them to peers that can view the channels, but does lowering fees also help make my channels visible to /more/ peers?
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16:20 < Eelis> hmm no, maybe i'm confusing things. maybe first somehow the local view is determined, and /then/ BA is used to pick a route through that view
16:20 < Eelis> hm no, BA is not for picking routes, but for maintaining channels
16:21  * Eelis is very confused
16:24 < Eelis> i guess i just don't understand how the routing works at all, when a node you want to send a payment to is not in your local view
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