--- Day changed Thu Jan 11 2018 00:05 -!- midnightmagic [~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:18 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.9] has joined #lightning-dev 00:28 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.9] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:31 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 00:31 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.16] has joined #lightning-dev 00:46 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 00:48 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has joined #lightning-dev 00:49 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:01 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:05 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has quit [] 01:07 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:12 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@73.181.185.197] has joined #lightning-dev 01:16 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@73.181.185.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.23] has joined #lightning-dev 01:27 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has joined #lightning-dev 01:31 -!- JackH_ [~laptop@aoe110.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:32 -!- Klauss [~Klauss@gateway/tor-sasl/klauss] has joined #lightning-dev 01:34 -!- dcousens [~dcousens@CPE-101-181-24-254.lnse4.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:35 -!- dcousens [~dcousens@CPE-101-181-122-189.lnse5.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lightning-dev 01:38 -!- midnightmagic [~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has joined #lightning-dev 01:39 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has joined #lightning-dev 01:46 -!- pm__ [~pm@11.46-14-84.ripe.coltfrance.com] has joined #lightning-dev 02:13 -!- plankers [~plank@c-73-2-4-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 02:14 < plankers> hi all. just set up c-lightning and funded it with some testnet coins, but it appears i dont have any peer connections. is there a list of peers i can connect to manually somewhere? 02:17 < scalability-junk> plankers there is nodes.lightning.directory 02:17 < scalability-junk> as dns seed aka look into the SRV records. 02:18 -!- scalability-junk [sid6422@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cuadfrhljwrddvoc] has quit [Quit: Updating details, brb] 02:18 -!- scalability-junk [sid6422@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nrxvlgsitvdevbzd] has joined #lightning-dev 02:19 < plankers> okaaaay 02:20 < plankers> guess i have some googling to do 02:21 < scalability-junk> @plankers what system are you using? 02:21 < plankers> ubuntu 16 02:21 < scalability-junk> In your cli you can do something along the lines of: "dig SRV nodes.lightning.directory" 02:22 < scalability-junk> It prints out seed nodes. 02:22 < plankers> ahh 02:22 < plankers> never used dig before, thanks 02:22 < scalability-junk> Also http://explorer.acinq.co/ has the nodes of the network. You might try establishing channels with some of them as tests. Usually the ones with more channels might also accept channel requests. 02:24 < plankers> awesome, thank you 02:25 < plankers> heh, the one node at 0 lat, 0 long 02:29 < fronti> hmm, acinq.co told me to my node that my node has 92 channels. but if I do a getinfo on my node it tell me "num_active_channels": 16 how to acinq count the channels? 02:35 < scalability-junk> @fronti not idea ^^ 02:49 -!- a_meteorite [~a_meteori@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001] has joined #lightning-dev 02:50 < pm__> fronti: which node is that? 02:50 -!- sstone [~sstone@3.46-14-84.ripe.coltfrance.com] has joined #lightning-dev 02:53 < fronti> pm__: this one: 02464bfaaae78b98268a6a6d7e8f6a110c60dd1293811d6029b11ee9edb4bbf869 i like to just understand the outputs 02:55 < pm__> the explorer displays the channel that it has heard of, and which funding transaction is still unspent 02:56 -!- molz [~IRCIdent@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:56 < pm__> one possible explanation would be if you somehow clean up or reset your ln node without closing your channels 02:57 < pm__> stale channels will eventually be forgotten after 2 weeks 02:57 < fronti> ok, understand. and yes you are right. i clean up channels sometimes without closing them 02:58 < fronti> delete chanelldb for example to learn how to handle with such cases do hard kill of the deamon and so on.. 02:58 -!- mlz [~IRCIdent@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lightning-dev 02:59 < fronti> so it makes sense now. merci beaucoup 02:59 < pm__> de rien ^^ 03:01 < pm__> plankers: regarding the node on null island, this happens when nodes advertise a loopback address as their public address. We should probably filter them out 03:08 -!- a_meteor_ [~a_meteori@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001] has joined #lightning-dev 03:10 -!- a_meteorite [~a_meteori@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:11 < plankers> hmm, ive only been able to connect to 1 out of 3 nodes from the acinq explorer so far 03:12 < plankers> only been trying with nodes >5 channels 03:12 < plankers> although i suppose 1 is enough 03:15 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has quit [Quit: we out here] 03:18 < scalability-junk> plankers: not everyone accepts channel creations or the nodes might be offline already etc. in testnet there is not as much incentive to keep nodes online and a few test, restart, etc. pp. 03:19 < pm__> we might add a basic reachability test to the explorer; I think nodes.lightning.directory does that already 03:21 < plankers> so if i wanted to connect to the nodes listed on nodes.lightning.directory, i use the IP associated with the server (127.0.1.1)? 03:21 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has joined #lightning-dev 03:22 < plankers> im not seeing any other IP addresses i could use 03:24 < plankers> and thanks for the help, yall 03:24 < fronti> your server should be reachable from outside. 127.0.0.1 is not reachable from outside as this is the loopback address (your localhost) 03:25 < scalability-junk> Example: SRV : ln1qv7glu5aza9vk2d8f0ykdf05glx0ut9j563fjshd25lk0jvjdyl2jx6f93r -> which gives back ln1qv7glu5aza9vk2d8f0ykdf05glx0ut9j563fjshd25lk0jvjdyl2jx6f93r.nodes.lightning.directory aka 45.63.87.131 03:25 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has quit [Client Quit] 03:25 < plankers> oh so i query the IP with dig 03:25 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has joined #lightning-dev 03:25 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has quit [Client Quit] 03:25 < scalability-junk> So that should make it connectable at ln1qv7glu5aza9vk2d8f0ykdf05glx0ut9j563fjshd25lk0jvjdyl2jx6f93r@ln1qv7glu5aza9vk2d8f0ykdf05glx0ut9j563fjshd25lk0jvjdyl2jx6f93r.nodes.lightning.directory if I'm not mistaken. 03:26 < scalability-junk> Aka not your node, but one of the seed nodes. 03:27 -!- eck [~eck@fsf/member/eck] has joined #lightning-dev 03:28 < plankers> ok im still confused. scalability-junk how did you get the IP address from the node pubkey? dig SRV "pubkey" is still just giving me the localhost 03:28 < plankers> or do i just look up the IP in an explorer 03:29 < fronti> just type in in your command shell: dig SRV nodes.lightning.directory 03:29 < plankers> ya i did that. but im not getting the IP addresses of the nodes 03:29 < fronti> you got the names of nodes 03:30 < scalability-junk> dig SRV .nodes.lightning.directory 03:30 < scalability-junk> dig .nodes.lightning.directory 03:30 < fronti> to get the ip do a dig ln1qtw7mnx5szvur4rtg960uq98a8uqnmpxkt7z0e2u4xa6e55ahv4r6psaew6.nodes.lightning.directory. 03:30 < plankers> yeah i did that, not seeing any IP... 03:30 < plankers> maybe im blind 03:30 < fronti> or an (old style) nslookup ln1qtw7mnx5szvur4rtg960uq98a8uqnmpxkt7z0e2u4xa6e55ahv4r6psaew6.nodes.lightning.directory. 03:31 < fronti> for dig you should see a section: 03:31 < fronti> ;; ANSWER SECTION: 03:31 < fronti> ln1qtw7mnx5szvur4rtg960uq98a8uqnmpxkt7z0e2u4xa6e55ahv4r6psaew6.nodes.lightning.directory. 59 IN A 195.181.243.196 03:31 < plankers> hmm nope, i just have an opt pseudosection and a question section 03:32 < fronti> (but these are basig dns tools, maybe not to dicuss in the channel here?) not sure about the policy here :) 03:32 < plankers> yeah sorry, this is all new to me 03:32 < fronti> maybe your DNS settings on your machine are not fine? 03:32 < plankers> could very well be 03:32 < fronti> can you do an dig google.com ? 03:33 -!- Klauss [~Klauss@gateway/tor-sasl/klauss] has quit [Quit: Klauss] 03:35 < plankers> figured it out, thanks fronti :) 03:57 -!- nirved [~nirved@2a02:8071:b58a:3c00:1c61:1d8f:34cc:57dd] has joined #lightning-dev 04:01 -!- sugarpuff [sid92283@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-soqldylegbicorcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:02 -!- sugarpuff [sid92283@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ppebztgkyonjqfla] has joined #lightning-dev 04:16 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has joined #lightning-dev 04:21 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:23 -!- Amperture [~amp@24.136.5.183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25 -!- Amperture [~amp@24.136.5.183] has joined #lightning-dev 04:25 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lightning-dev 04:27 -!- AndyS2 [~noname@static.74.88.9.5.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:27 -!- AndyS2 [~noname@static.74.88.9.5.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lightning-dev 04:32 -!- llou [~textual@85.152.207.115] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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[~Klauss@gateway/tor-sasl/klauss] has joined #lightning-dev 08:43 -!- wxss [~user@109.236.91.108] has joined #lightning-dev 08:53 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:54 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has joined #lightning-dev 09:02 -!- Klauss [~Klauss@gateway/tor-sasl/klauss] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:12 -!- onryo is now known as qxt 09:15 -!- vicenteH [~user@35.233.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lightning-dev 09:21 -!- Artemis3 [~artemis3@190-37-30-10.dyn.dsl.cantv.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:26 -!- ighezzi [~ighezzi@212.91.77.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29 -!- jb55 [~jb55@208.98.200.100] has joined #lightning-dev 09:34 < plankers> whats the meaning of "riskfactor" when finding finding a route? 09:38 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:38 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 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[uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-crhodphjhtfdfcfb] has joined #lightning-dev 11:02 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03 -!- Chris_St1 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 11:03 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:04 < lndbot1> It's a randomization parameter that allows you to deviate a bit from the optimal route 11:04 -!- Murch [~murch@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Snoozing.] 11:10 -!- surj [~surj@172.56.38.2] has joined #lightning-dev 11:11 -!- Murch [~murch@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lightning-dev 11:11 -!- drexl [~drexl@62.112.9.166] has joined #lightning-dev 11:12 -!- Murch [~murch@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:28 -!- surj [~surj@172.56.38.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:37 -!- surj [~surj@38.140.228.146] has joined #lightning-dev 11:41 -!- Tennis [~Tennis@unaffiliated/tennis] has joined #lightning-dev 11:46 -!- Chris_St1 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 11:46 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 12:01 -!- dizz [~dizz@12.219.222.107] has joined #lightning-dev 12:06 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has joined #lightning-dev 12:06 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has left #lightning-dev [] 12:06 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has joined #lightning-dev 12:13 -!- dionysus69 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/dionysus69] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:29 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has joined #lightning-dev 12:33 -!- dcousens [~dcousens@CPE-101-181-36-49.lnse4.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:34 -!- dcousens [~dcousens@CPE-101-181-50-119.lnse4.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lightning-dev 12:35 -!- plankers [~plank@c-73-2-4-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:37 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has quit [] 12:58 -!- mughat [~textual@x1-6-28-c6-8e-30-bf-4a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #lightning-dev 13:10 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17 -!- jtimon [~quassel@41.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:18 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.7] has joined #lightning-dev 13:18 -!- plankers [~plank@c-73-2-4-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:39 < instagibbs> cdecker, forwarded from achow101 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2726347.msg27899257#msg27899257 13:44 -!- jtimon [~quassel@41.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lightning-dev 13:45 -!- plankers [~plank@c-73-2-4-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:50 -!- nirved [~nirved@2a02:8071:b58a:3c00:1c61:1d8f:34cc:57dd] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:15 -!- BladeMcCool [~BladeMcCo@node-1w7jr9ss1inb968eucy9yen8e.ipv6.telus.net] has left #lightning-dev ["Leaving"] 14:39 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lightning-dev 14:40 -!- robzon [~robzon@178235204182.warszawa.vectranet.pl] has joined #lightning-dev 14:41 < robzon> is there an easy way to unstuck a channel in CHANNELD_AWAITING_LOCKIN state? 14:43 < contrapumpkin> roasbeef: if I leave lightning app open for long enough, the GUI disappears and I'm left with an all-white window. It still seems to respond to menu events (on macOS) but doesn't seem to be doing much else. Is there anything sensible I can do to debug that? 14:48 < cdecker> instagibbs, will have to give it a look tomorrow 14:51 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-116-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55 -!- dcousens [~dcousens@CPE-101-181-50-119.lnse4.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:57 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@100.15.116.35] has joined #lightning-dev 14:58 -!- wraithm [~wraithm@unaffiliated/wraithm] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 15:10 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 15:12 < moctost> Any documentation on backing up c-lightning wallet private keys? 15:16 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has joined #lightning-dev 15:17 < cdecker> Make a copy of ~/.lightning, everything is in there 15:19 -!- JackH [~laptop@aoe110.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47 -!- woofer [~woofer@89-160-106-172.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 15:54 -!- MaxSan [~user@185.156.175.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:07 <+roasbeef> contrapumpkin: hmm, make an issue on the repo perhaps? if you check the logs, you see any activity? 16:08 -!- Cogito_Ergo_Sum [~Myself@unaffiliated/cogito-ergo-sum/x-7399460] has quit [] 16:16 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.7] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 16:20 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:25 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has joined #lightning-dev 16:29 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31 -!- simlay 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[5ecc94c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.204.148.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:41 -!- moctost [~moctost@88.202.178.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:47 -!- Eetsi123 [~Eetsi123@2001:999:40:28bf:946e:8a4f:1a33:e51] has joined #lightning-dev 11:54 -!- Eetsi123 [~Eetsi123@2001:999:40:28bf:946e:8a4f:1a33:e51] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:04 -!- bdykesfr2 [~amnesia@92-109-4-61.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has joined #lightning-dev 12:08 < instagibbs> where are routing fees specified in BOLTs? 12:08 < instagibbs> if anywhere 12:10 <+roasbeef> instagibbs: 7 12:11 <+roasbeef> but also beyond that nodes can actually make a case-by-case decision kinda, can use that to crank up fees as the amount if larger, or you have more flight, they just send back an err with the latest policy, no need to neccersily even send out anupdate 12:11 < instagibbs> roasbeef, danke 12:11 < instagibbs> oh cool 12:19 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.48] has joined #lightning-dev 12:24 <+roasbeef> instagibbs: ideally there're two additional factors in those static fees: timelock delay (possibly make prepay scaling with timelock delay) 12:24 <+roasbeef> well that's just one actually 12:25 <+roasbeef> but prepay scaled based on delay makes sense, as adds cost to even the creation of an htlc and further mitigates certain classes of attack 12:25 <+roasbeef> tho it itsn't quite perfect, as they you pay even for failures 12:26 -!- JackH [~laptop@2a02:a210:2e00:300:655a:7cbf:d627:81fb] has joined #lightning-dev 12:26 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 12:28 < instagibbs> right 12:29 < instagibbs> im sure optimizing this will actually make sense once we have real-world data 12:29 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:38 < rompert> hi. i'm playing with c-lightning on mainnet... successfully paid a couple of times. made a clean stop and restart and since then i can't pay anymore. 12:39 < rompert> i got stuck with "Attempt to send HTLC but unowned (CHANNELD_NORMAL)" 12:39 < rompert> any idea how to fix it? right now i'm closing that channel and will try to open again :) 12:54 < jb55> perhaps you're running into https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/issues/552 ? 12:56 < jb55> c-lightning isn't really mainnet ready yet... 12:58 -!- anome [~anome@unaffiliated/anome] has quit [] 12:58 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 12:58 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] 13:00 <+roasbeef> yeh peeps should relax with this whole mainnet stuff, implementation authors will let y'all know when they're comfortable with widespread usage 13:00 <+roasbeef> but hey, peeps are eager which is cool 13:00 <+roasbeef> lnd for example has some breaking db changes planned in the near future, will be some of the last before the main focus is stability 13:06 < instagibbs> roasbeef, you're not my REAL dad 13:07 <+roasbeef> son, i am dissapoint 13:10 -!- Murch [~murch@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:19 < lndbot> lol 13:41 -!- mughat [~textual@x1-6-28-c6-8e-30-bf-4a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:42 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:50 -!- BladeMcCool [~BladeMcCo@node-1w7jr9ss1inba5kpvewbys0dr.ipv6.telus.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:50 < BladeMcCool> trying to pay a starblocks invoice via my lnd, it is connected to some peers and has a few channels open but it can't pay starblocks. any leads on nodes i can connect to/channel with to pay starblocks? 13:56 < instagibbs> this brings me to another question: what is the expected workflow for adding new direct channel when one doesn't exist? Is there a bolt for the connection part? 13:57 < instagibbs> one doesn't exist and you're not connected* 13:57 <+roasbeef> instagibbs: connect, funding_open, fin? 13:57 < instagibbs> is there a bolt for the connect part, user-side? 13:57 < instagibbs> lnd does one thing, c-lightning another 13:58 <+roasbeef> bolt 08? 13:58 < instagibbs> starblocks doesn't even expose its ip address/id, which is BladeMcCool question 13:59 <+roasbeef> yeh it's singly homed, and has poor path diversity since everything must go thru endurance 13:59 < BladeMcCool> roasbeef: so if i get a channel open to endurance (which i have verified i can connect to as a peer so far actually), then i should be able to pay starblocks invoice? 14:00 < BladeMcCool> (i'll try it shortly anyway. need to wait on testnet blocks i think for anchor tx) 14:00 < instagibbs> roasbeef, well, i dont see how bolt8 answers this, it's likely too high-level, or on another stack 14:01 < instagibbs> more along the lines of the bolt11 format, but wrt ip addr/id 14:02 < instagibbs> or should that ip info be gleaned from the gossip 14:04 < instagibbs> err wait, im probably confused... ill shut up 14:11 <+roasbeef> instagibbs: i mean there's a pubkey and there's a host, put the two together and you get a connection 14:13 < instagibbs> but there isn't unless you ask someone. there's no standard, is my point 14:13 -!- qxt is now known as onryo 14:13 <+roasbeef> instagibbs: why do you need a standard for pubkey+host? 14:13 <+roasbeef> it's like saying there's no bitcoin address standard 14:13 < instagibbs> let's say I get a bolt11 request. oops, can't pay, I'd like to set up a channel, forward the payment up front willing to wait 14:13 < instagibbs> wat 14:14 < instagibbs> bitcoin is multicast 14:14 <+roasbeef> you use their pubkey 14:14 < instagibbs> the transaction gets to receiver regardless of onlineness 14:14 <+roasbeef> if they're listening you can connect 14:14 < instagibbs> ok, so like i asked before, if they're listening, gossip will get you that info, you just connect and negotiate 14:16 < instagibbs> makes sense, thanks, just thinking through payment flow in all these configurations 14:17 <+roasbeef> there's also the pending_id fallback 14:17 <+roasbeef> so theat the receiver konws that you're actually fulfiilling an invoice 14:18 <+roasbeef> you use the payment hash as the pending_id when you're making a new channel 14:18 <+roasbeef> recv'r uses the info to mark the invoice as settled in their db once it's conf'd 14:18 <+roasbeef> (you'd push the initial payment amt) 14:21 < jb55> I was wondering the other day if you could change the communication channel to something asyncronous (think email). not sure if that would work 14:22 <+roasbeef> yeh it's just a rando transport 14:22 <+roasbeef> bolt08 is transport agnostic in a sense 14:22 <+roasbeef> encpaulsate it in emails, doesn't matter 14:22 < jb55> I was just worried about timeouts in the spec 14:22 <+roasbeef> adjust em 14:23 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pejfagogffwwywog] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 14:24 < jb55> you would probably lose routing but would support other use cases like paying someone when they're offline, etc 14:24 <+roasbeef> can do it all, it's just a transport 14:25 < jb55> now I'm tempted to build a poc :P 14:58 -!- Dinth [4b653029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.101.48.41] has joined #lightning-dev 14:59 -!- Dinth [4b653029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.101.48.41] has quit [Client Quit] 15:11 -!- berndj [~berndj@mail.azna.co.za] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:13 -!- berndj [~berndj@mail.azna.co.za] has joined #lightning-dev 15:20 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lightning-dev 15:22 -!- nirved [~nirved@2a02:8071:b58a:3c00:58bb:3a76:3ce2:e5dd] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30 -!- bdykesfr2 [~amnesia@92-109-4-61.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:42 < rompert> jb55: might be related to that issue 552. however shouldn't there be some mechanism to automatically detect and recuperate from that? and yes i know the code isn't finished, i'm just talking a ride to see that it actually works, which it does. good work, devs! the eager peeps loves you! 15:44 -!- blyat [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 15:46 < jb55> rompert: yup, the goal is to never lose any state after a restart. c-lightning just needs some work in this department. 15:54 -!- rfree_irc [~rfree_irc@172.86.120.144] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:40 -!- BladeMcCool [~BladeMcCo@node-1w7jr9ss1inba5kpvewbys0dr.ipv6.telus.net] has left #lightning-dev ["Leaving"] 16:42 -!- jojeyh [6b8b6b97@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.139.107.151] has joined #lightning-dev 16:43 < jojeyh> I was going through the lightning-rfcs and came across the acronym CLTV, what does this stand for? 16:49 < mlz> check lock time verify 16:49 < jojeyh> whoops just figured it out 16:49 < jojeyh> ah thanks though! 16:49 -!- jojeyh [6b8b6b97@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.139.107.151] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:50 -!- mughat [~textual@x1-6-28-c6-8e-30-bf-4a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #lightning-dev 16:51 -!- jojeyh [~delphi@2602:306:b8b6:b970:c809:d16:8787:7443] has joined #lightning-dev 16:55 -!- jb55 [~jb55@208.98.200.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:58 -!- Tennis [~Tennis@unaffiliated/tennis] has joined #lightning-dev 17:02 -!- riclas [riclas@72.210.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lightning-dev 17:22 < kousakahonoka> A question, now that lightning mainnet deploy has started (although infant), does all nodes have to setup channels by themselves? How does companies like TorGuard secure their lightning payments? 17:26 < mlz> mainnet is not recommended 17:27 < mlz> yeh peeps should relax with this whole mainnet stuff, implementation authors will let y'all know when they're comfortable with widespread usage 17:28 < kousakahonoka> Thanks. I'm still figuring out the web interface for LN nodes. 17:50 < Emcy_> yes handle your own channels 18:05 -!- jsfour [4c5a8c1f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.90.140.31] has joined #lightning-dev 18:06 < jsfour> hello everyone 18:13 -!- Murch [~murch@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Snoozing.] 18:15 -!- CH72IS [442f6a6f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.47.106.111] has joined #lightning-dev 18:16 -!- CH72IS [442f6a6f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.47.106.111] has quit [Client Quit] 18:17 -!- Akore [c0401863@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.64.24.99] has joined #lightning-dev 18:18 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@c-73-119-55-73.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 18:18 < Akore> hey guys! 18:19 < Akore> So I'm a fan of cryptocurrency, and I have a home server on 24/7 and am interested in creating a LN node 18:19 < Akore> I've looked for some info but I'm not sure what to do, I've only got experience mining 18:20 < Akore> Also, my understanding is it won't generate any revenue, but I just want to help progress adoption 18:22 < Akore> I may just wait until lightninglabs/lightning-app is on mainnet 18:26 <+roasbeef> Akore: you'd want to start getting familiar with how to run a node on testnet first, work up to the big leagues 18:26 <+roasbeef> even in the current state you can help my testing impls and reporting any weird stuff you run into so it can be fixed eventually 18:29 < Akore> gotcha, makes sense 18:30 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@c-73-119-55-73.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31 < Akore> I understand the windows implementations of lightning run on LND, is there a better one? Zap or lightning-app? 18:34 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@2601:182:cd00:2dd1:fc9b:83a2:5da5:73f4] has joined #lightning-dev 18:35 < mlz> commandline 18:35 <+roasbeef> Akore: both of those desktop apps run lnd under the hood 18:37 < Akore> yup I know that, just wondering if one is further along in dev than the other 18:40 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@2601:182:cd00:2dd1:fc9b:83a2:5da5:73f4] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:47 < Akore> syncing to chain with lightning-app 18:49 -!- rfree_irc [~rfree_irc@172.86.120.144] has joined #lightning-dev 18:54 < kousakahonoka> It's going to be a painful process. My nose was up overnight when it synced from Block #0 to #420000. 18:56 < Akore> it says I'm done syncing to block hashes 18:57 < Akore> but I can't send from https://htlc.me/ 18:58 < Akore> eh 18:58 <+roasbeef> if you don't have channels open, then you can't recv, if your channel doesn't have sufficient balance on your side to recv, you can't recv, channels take 6 blocks to be "fully open" 19:00 -!- Tennis [~Tennis@unaffiliated/tennis] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: .] 19:01 < Akore> "fetched 0 channels from DB" 19:01 -!- jtimon [~quassel@41.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 19:02 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:02 < kousakahonoka> You need to build channels by yourself. Check https://faucet.lightning.community 19:05 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 19:07 < Akore> well now I've got a pending-openm 19:09 < Akore> I just put arbitrary values in the satosi on channel and initial balance, was that wrong? 19:12 < Akore> fuck it, I'm done 19:12 < Akore> cya in a month or two 19:12 -!- Akore [c0401863@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.64.24.99] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:16 -!- jsfour [4c5a8c1f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.90.140.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:23 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:34 -!- DigitalDank [DigitalDan@ip72-207-116-245.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 19:35 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lightning-dev 19:35 < mlz> lol 19:36 * roasbeef shrugs 19:37 < contrapumpkin> :O 19:39 -!- riclas [riclas@72.210.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:40 -!- DigitalDank [DigitalDan@ip72-207-116-245.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41 -!- DigitalDank [DigitalDan@ip72-207-116-245.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 19:47 -!- DigitalDank [DigitalDan@ip72-207-116-245.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48 -!- DigitalDank [DigitalDan@ip72-207-116-245.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 19:52 -!- Shannon [4b653029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.101.48.41] has joined #lightning-dev 19:53 -!- Shannon [4b653029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.101.48.41] has quit [Client Quit] 19:55 -!- DigitalDank [DigitalDan@ip72-207-116-245.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56 -!- DigitalDank [DigitalDan@ip72-207-116-245.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 20:02 -!- DigitalDank [DigitalDan@ip72-207-116-245.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02 -!- DigitalDank [DigitalDan@ip72-207-116-245.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 20:22 -!- booyah_ [~bb@193.25.1.157] has joined #lightning-dev 20:24 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00 -!- Rozal [uid50160@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wzhrmgkzpqvvejyb] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:02 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:07 < Amperture> I've got an app I'm developing for content creators and I think Lightning Network would be a great fit, but I've got some questions related to how it would fit into to my use case. Any experts round for a bit of a longer convo? 21:17 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 21:20 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lightning-dev 21:42 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:42 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 21:43 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 21:50 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:52 < TheLive1> is there a plan for lightning snap package? 23:49 -!- a4401 [5918ccd7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.24.204.215] has joined #lightning-dev