--- Day changed Sat Jan 20 2018
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00:34 < sgtmilleru> Is multiple channels per peer planned in 0.6 or will that come later? (c-lightning)
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00:36 < almkglor> @SpoekplumpeN: The fees come from the money your counterparty is trying to abscond with.
00:37 < almkglor> @SpoekplumpeN: If the final state is such that 99% of the channel fund is yours and 1% is for the thieving counterparty, you can pay onchain fees up to the 1% of the thief without losing your own funds
00:38 < almkglor> @SpoekplumpeN: For reference, there is a "reserve" amount that each counterparty should keep in the channel, and usual values to my knowledge are 1% of the channel
00:39 < almkglor> @SpoekplumpeN: also, for reference, roasbeef generally recommends the use of RBF for the penalty tx, although to my knowledge only lnd implements it so far
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00:43 < ZmnSCPxj> Good morning sgtmilleru, there are code comments regarding multiple channels per peer, but, currently I know of no plans to get it done by the next 0.6 release
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00:53 < luke-jr> SpoekplumpeN: you mean child pays for parent, and sure
00:54 < luke-jr> sgtmilleru: why would you ever want multiple channels?
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00:58 < sgtmilleru> luke-jr: My friend opened a channel with me but all funds are on his side. So I want to open a channel with him. 
00:58 < luke-jr> sgtmilleru: the goal should be to add funds to the existing channel
01:04 < SpoekplumpeN> luke-jr: yes child pays for parent ofc :) 
01:06 < SpoekplumpeN> but preferably I'd pay with channel funds anyways since it's possible, and if you have to add outside funds I think it's never economical to punish the other side
01:07 < SpoekplumpeN> IE the current onchain transaction fee is higher then the channel fund
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02:19 < CubicEarths> lightning-c spews an log outputs at an insane speed. Good job team! (it seems very performant)
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02:30 < luke-jr> SpoekplumpeN: just ensure your counterparty always has at least as much funds in the channel, as the highest expected fee
02:32 < mryandao> for clightning, is it always the case, i have to connect manually everytime i kill the daemon
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03:05 < mryandao> dig lseed.bitcoinstats.com SRV
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03:15 < mryandao> how do i use dig with the query semantics as described in BOLT#11?
03:16 < mryandao> can someone show me an example query with the query semantics
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03:19 < jfcastro> is there some lightning node in testnet available to connect?
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03:21 < jfcastro> I would like to pay at starblocks from c-lightning
03:22 < jfcastro> but I don't know how open a channel with them
03:22 < jfcastro> maybe I'm missing something because a noob
03:22 < jfcastro> :P     
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03:35 < meshcollider> jfcastro: connect to the faucet.lightning.community
03:39 < jfcastro> meshcollider: thanks! is this compatible with c-lightning? I have read it doesn't :S
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03:40 < meshcollider> Its just a node, c-lightning, lnd, eclair should all be able to connect, they are all interoperable
03:40  * mryandao sighs
03:41  * meshcollider pokes mryandao
03:41 < jfcastro> ok, sorry for the newbie question :(
03:41 < meshcollider> jfcastro: its all good, have fun with lightning :D
03:42 < mryandao> i think i accidentally dos-ed a node.
03:43 < mryandao> and why's a connection with a peer so flaky
03:43 < mryandao> it connects, then suddenly disconnects
03:43 < mryandao> anyone experiencing that?
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04:07 < sgtmiller> how do i generate a payment req in c-lightning where the payer can send any amount he wants to?
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04:32 < jfcastro> sgtmiller: look at this: https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/blob/master/doc/lightning-invoice.7.txt
04:32 < jfcastro> sgtmiller: you can use the string "any"
04:33 < sgtmiller> thanks
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04:46 < sgtmiller> jfcastro: it says "'any' is not a valid positive number" 
04:49 < sgtmiller> Are there any plans to change the suffix in human readable part in bolt#11? m and n are too hard to distinguish.  maybe just say micro and nano?
04:49 < sgtmiller> The multiplier, I mean
05:01 < sgtmiller> nvm about "any" error, had an older version
05:02 < mlz> mryandao, which implementation are you using?
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05:50 < renlord> mlz: c-lightning
05:50 < renlord> mryandao ^
05:52 < mryandao> yeah i'm using c-lightning, and there's a bunch of stale OPENINGD state channels
05:53 < e4xit> I am trying to run lightning with my core node, but I see some errors like "network is not routable" and "failed to connect to socket". I think the first is because it is trying to use my gateway ip as WAN (routable) IP address, but not sure about the second... https://0bin.net/paste/MqRyzJX314WF0rw1#atVBjVSOLgkU-SVzlmM3yPWOTIEyuifMYGYdSXAj41P
05:53 < e4xit> lightningd*
05:58 < mryandao> if anyone is interested: http://termbin.com/3ajty
05:58 < mryandao> thats the output i got from getpeers
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06:08 < rupy> the latest github release was in 2016! where can one get the latest c-light... can you run c-lightning with a pruned and blocksonly bitcoind?
06:08 < rupy> hi, btw
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06:19 < sgtmiller> why does a node id begin with 02 or 03?
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06:21 < sgtmiller> rupy: git clone https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning.git will give you latest
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06:23 < rupy> sgtmiller ok but there will not be any release soonish I guess?
06:24 < rupy> what about: can you run c-lightning with a pruned and blocksonly bitcoind?
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06:59 < harding> sgtmiller: is the node id 33 bytes (66 hex characters)?  If so, then it's probably a compressed ECDSA public key.  02 and 03 indicate whether the curve point belongs to the top-half (high) or bottom-half (low) of points on the y axis of the field.
07:01 < sgtmiller> ah, thanks.   
07:07 < cdecker> They are indeed compressed secp256k1 public keys
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07:23 < rupy> can you run c-lightning with a pruned and blocksonly bitcoind?
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07:30 < cdecker> rupy, it works but won't be able to verify the validity of channel announcements so you'll end up with a partial view of the network and may not be able to route
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07:36 < rupy> aha ok... gonna turn things back on then... had problems booting 0.12.0 but 0.15.1 seems alot better RAM-vise
07:36 < rupy> so when is the next bitcoind planned for, anyone know?
07:37 < rupy> btw was that for pruned or blocksonly?
07:37 < rupy> I can't run without pruned so hoping for blocksonly
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07:46 < cdecker> Not sure if blocksonly works, pruned will with the caveat that you only see part of the network
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07:53 < rupy> aha so to be able to route you need a 120+GB disk?
07:54 < rupy> looks like it's going to be off-chain accounts for scaling for me then...
07:55 < rupy> maybe we will get non-segwit pruning then?
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10:00 < lndbot> <john-sr> Kim dot com of megaupload fame says bitcache will use a private side chain with lightning.  What does that even mean? 
10:06 < Deelight> he also says lightning is production-ready, so there's a possibility that he doesn't even know what he's talking about
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10:30 < mlz> how do you spell "SCAM"? 
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10:42 < tuxx> has anyone managed to compile c-lightning with llvm
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10:46 < tuxx> seems to build easily out-of-the-box
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11:31 <+roasbeef> yeh the kim dotcom stuff smells like scam
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13:58 < ianthius> cdecker: any ideas on how i can get my keys out of the clighting db on that comingled testnet/mainnet node i had?
14:00 < ianthius> cdecker: or better yet, how i can "withdraw" the funds to a new address.
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14:02 < PocKeT> Hello
14:03 < PocKeT> I'm having trouble running an lightning-c node is this the place to ask it?
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14:05 < ianthius> PocKeT: there is also the c-lightning channel
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14:05 < ianthius> PocKeT: what is your issue ATM?
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14:28 < PocKeT> @ianthius where can i find it?
14:29 < PocKeT> I'm getting this error: bitcoin-cli exec failed: No such file or directory
14:29 < PocKeT> bitcoin-cli is in my PATH and bitcoind is running
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15:00 < ianthius> roasbeef: windsok haha, hey guys just realized i jumped in without understanding something fundamental, once I start my node, can people just open channels with my based on my available funds in the LND hot wallet? I have been initializing channel openings, but these other nodes i am opening with are just accepting them automatically is this something I need to turn on, or is this defaut behavior 
15:00 < ianthius> of the nodes?
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15:04 < ianthius> does anyone want to invoice me a pizza? I am hungry!
15:16 < PocKeT> If i'd be able to run my nod i would ;)
15:16 < PocKeT> node*
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15:20 < ianthius> PocKeT: are you able to run 'bitcoin-cli help'
15:20 < ianthius> from the same user that you are runnning lightningd with?
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15:50 < cdecker> ianthius, depends on how comfortable you are with SQL. We can mark the testnet outputs with something that isn't available (e.g., set their status to 99) and then use `withdraw all` to send all the mainnet coins to a wallet of yours
15:53 < jb55> quitting my job to working lightning stuff. more time to hack on clightning!
15:53 < jb55> work*
15:56 < mlz> jb55, really?
15:57 -!- fdnslnro [592d5d67@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.45.93.103] has joined #lightning-dev     
15:57 < jb55> yup     
15:57 < fdnslnro> Hey guys, i just made a LN app 
15:57 < fdnslnro> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7ru2kg/get_a_subdomain_with_only_100_testnet_satoshi_its/
15:57 < fdnslnro> care to test it out?
15:57 < mlz> cool.. congratz! :D
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15:58 < jb55> thx :D
15:58 < mlz> (to jb55 that is) 
15:58 < mlz> more help for clightning! 
16:00 < jb55> I can only do this thanks to bitcoin!
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16:05 < mlz> :D     
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16:33 < CubicEarths> It doesn't impact my lightning nodes functionality in any way if by bitcoind isn't accepting incoming connections, does it?
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16:42 < ianthius> jb55: that's a big deal! congrats man. I am hoping to do that soon!
16:42 < ianthius> it will be another year or so though.
16:43 < CubicEarths> jb55: what are you doing??
16:44 < ianthius> cdecker: okay, that sounds like a plan. I was thinking that would be a good idea but wanted to check first. Saibato's reference on github made me think i maybe should so that. i have some work to do outside for a few hours and will try it a little later. Thanks for the reply
16:44 < jb55> ianthius: thanks :]
16:45 < cdecker> Make sure to make a backup copy of the DB before trying
16:45 < cdecker> We'll better split mainnet and testnet in the future, promised :-)
16:48 < jb55> ianthius: dooo it. think of all the stuff that needs building!
16:48 < CubicEarths> How do I give my node a name?
16:48 < ianthius> jb55: i can't right now. I have some goals I need to meet first
16:48 < ianthius> i have a plan though, i think i'll be quitting and joining a blockchain company in 2 years
16:49 < ianthius> CubicEarths: what software are you using?
16:49 < CubicEarths> lightning-c
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16:50 < ianthius> --alias=[name] on the lightningd
16:50 < ianthius> when you launch it CubicEarths 
16:51 < ianthius> CubicEarths: someone just did emoji asii characters. which is a good idea. i wish i had thought to do it. i might switch next time i bring it down and up
16:51 < CubicEarths> ianthius: Do you have set that every time, or does it hold the config?
16:52 < ianthius> you have to set it everytime, it's a command line paramter, those aren't saved, that's kind of a standard thing
16:53 < ianthius> there is probably a config file that you can put that in though.
16:53 < CubicEarths> ianthius: Got it
16:53 < cdecker> UTF-8 aliases FTW :-)
16:54 < ianthius> type 'lightning -help'
16:54 < ianthius> sorry *'lightningd -help'
16:54 < ianthius> and then 'lightning-cli help'
16:55 < ianthius> that should give you a good start
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16:57 < CubicEarths> I can see a service that rates nodes based on uptime being a very useful thing
16:57 < jb55> emoji aliases...
16:59 < mlz> lol..  https://twitter.com/videah_/status/954874285524385792
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17:15 < CubicEarths> And when my node is restarted, I need to reinitiate the connections to my peers manually? Even if there is an open channel?
17:16 < jb55> CubicEarths: that was an issue in older versions... you running master?
17:18 < CubicEarths> jb55: How do I pull up the version?
17:19 < jb55> it wont reconnect in opening/unilateral/cheated/mutual states 
17:19 < jb55> CubicEarths: did you compile it from master?
17:19 < CubicEarths> I forget :/  But it would have been a week ago anyway
17:20 < jb55> yeah I patched that issue, if you update it should work
17:21 < CubicEarths> Will do!
17:21 < jb55> well maybe not if there are empty addresses in the listpeers
17:21 < jb55> old versions didn't save the address hints
17:21 < jb55> it uses those to reconnect
17:22 < CubicEarths> And is there a way to purge the peers that I attempted to connect to, but didn't succeed?
17:23 < jb55> you can open ~/.lightning/lightningd.sqlite3, and delete the channels and peers: 'delete from channels; delete from peers;'
17:23 < jb55> to purge everything
17:25 < CubicEarths> cool
17:25 < CubicEarths> You're in Vancouver?
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17:26 < jb55> yup     
17:26 < CubicEarths> I'm in Olympia (right now)
17:27 < jb55> olympia?
17:28 < CubicEarths> in Washington
17:28 < jb55> ah     
17:29 < jb55> 03e073c78f95c069fcaa71ca46dd5daabdd6b2b5039e16db5bf29c0efa5f3de543 70.36.49.138  
17:29 < jb55> if you want to testnet channel
17:30 < jb55> oh weird sec
17:33 < jb55> there we go
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17:35 < CubicEarths> Sure enough, it has connected on it's own :)
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17:43 < CubicEarths> It didn't connect
17:43 < CubicEarths> failed connection
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17:45 < CubicEarths> Here is me: 02ae7cda218e77081f99602cac709f4385cf272760c0794cc7252c4fb016db2a6c 73.181.185.197
17:48 < jb55> you're filtered: https://jb55.com/s/dfb4f02bb5bf092e.txt
17:51 < CubicEarths> I see why. Made a silly forwarding mistake. Fixed
17:54 < jb55> opened one
17:57 < CubicEarths> jb55: I see it. And how to have my node list a public IP?
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18:34 < CubicEarths> ianthius: How can I set my node to announce its ip?
18:45 <+roasbeef> ianthius: yeh if you're node is listening externally, then peeps can't connect to make channels
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19:55 < ianthius> roasbeef: can or cannot?
19:55 <+roasbeef> peeps won't connect *inbound* if you're unreachable 
19:58 < jb55> had a thought: once a channel is depleted on your side and you don't have any reason to believe you'll get paid in the other direction, isn't it always rational to try and steal an old state?
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19:58 < jb55> oh wait
19:58 < jb55> derp
19:58 < jb55> channel reserve
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20:01 < ianthius> roasbeef: you have a typo in your first message above, correct? I am just checking because your statements seem contradictory to me. 
20:01 <+roasbeef> idk what typos are
20:01 <+roasbeef> kek     
20:01 <+roasbeef> but I mean if nodes can't connect to you, they can't make channels themselves 
20:02 <+roasbeef> if you're on a VPS or IPv6, or just reachable in general it'll be fine 
20:02 <+roasbeef> if you're running somewhere else, you might be behind a NAT
20:05 < ianthius> I think what I am asking is, for all of the implementations, if your network is setup correctly and everything is working correctly, then people can open channels with you? Can they open channels and lock up the funds you have in your daemons wallet?
20:06 <+roasbeef> they don't put you funds in a channel, channels are single funder but bi-di atm
20:06 < ianthius> in your first response you said "yeh if you're node IS listening externally, then peep CAN"T connect to make channels" You meant to say CAN connection to make channels, correct?
20:06 <+roasbeef> lnd has that feature deep in its code, but there aren't wire messages to expose it
20:06 <+roasbeef> yeh can
20:06 < ianthius> which feature?
20:07 <+roasbeef> dual funder
20:07 < ianthius> oh like opening balanced channels?
20:07 <+roasbeef> there're some policy issues around it, and makes some stuff a bit more complex
20:07 <+roasbeef> but it'll be added later 
20:07 < ianthius> each person stakes some, instead of the opener staking everything?
20:08 < ianthius> so right now all 3 implementations open channels with funds from the REQUESTOR, correct?
20:08 <+roasbeef> yes you conncet, you put up funds, simple, easy
20:08 < ianthius> thx. man. sorry to be pedantic, but i was genuinely confused
20:09 <+roasbeef> np     
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20:14 < ianthius> CubicEarths: if you are reachable I think folks will see your IP. Why do you think your IP is not being announced?
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22:16 < CubicEarths> ianthius: I can see my node the ACINQ explorer when I search for it by alias or pubkey, by the site is reporting no public ip
22:17 < CubicEarths> I am behind NAT, but I have forwarded the port
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22:27 < CubicEarths> Perhaps my lightning node isn't even detecting it's own public IP?
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22:48 < ianthius> CubicEarths: mine wasn't reporting the IP either and then it finally appeared. Not sure why..
22:49 < CubicEarths> I wonder if it takes a while?
22:50 < CubicEarths> I'll see if it shows the ip by the morning
22:50 < CubicEarths> the 'endurance' node has so many connections!!!!!
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22:58 < mlz> how do you start c-lightning to make your node's IP public?  --externalip=...  ?
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23:10 < CubicEarths> mlz: seems like a reasonable guess 
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23:11 < CubicEarths> It will be cool to see how the different implementations go about 'specializing' as time goes on
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