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05:20 < jochemin> Hi, I have a Bitcoin Core full node installed an synced in a Raspberry, I installed c-lightning and the first time I started it it began adding blocks from block 370312, it took a couple days to sync, once synced I add a peer, fund a channel and purchase one great lightning sticker from blockstream shop.   Every time I stop lightning client, when I start it up again it begin syncing again from block 370312.   Same behaviour w
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05:59 < bitonic-cjp> jochemin: maybe more appropriate for the #c-lightning channel?
06:00 < jochemin> Ok. i'll ask it there, thank you.
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07:21 < kanzure> are lightning channels considered offline-compatible? e.g. is there serialization formats or whatever for two wallets to speak to each other without an active data connection between the two except, say, two smartphones optically looking at each other or whatever?
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08:10 < bitonic-cjp> kanzure: the invoice can probably be put in a QR code (shown by payee to payer), but both need to be online to perform payments in the Lightning network.
08:25 < kanzure> does that include two nodes that know they have a channel open directly with each other?
08:27 < mlz> kanzure if two LN nodes are offline, they can't speak to each other, or even one of them is offline, the other one can't send payment to it
08:27 < bitonic-cjp> I think, in that case, the two nodes only need to communicate with each other and with the Bitcoin network. 
08:28 < mlz> kanzure it's not like with bitcoin, even if your wallet is offline, someone still can send you money
08:28 < kanzure> yes but my question is whether if, in the case where two nodes only need to communicate with each other, is there an offline implementation of this?
08:28 < kanzure> e.g. for doing a few channel updates by passing each other your phones and showing QR codes for latest state updates and transaction signatures or whatever
08:29 < mlz> if the other node is offline, and you need him to pay you, you can send him an email with your invoice and tell him to get back online to pay you in x hours/days
08:30 < bitonic-cjp> I think you really need to be online to be secure. If one of your peers does something nasty (e.g. publish one of the old commit transactions), your software needs to take counter-measures before a certain time-out.
08:31 < kanzure> are watchtowers not implemented?
08:31 < mlz> not yet
08:32 < bitonic-cjp> If you delegate this task to other always-online computers, you need to send channel update information to those other computers whenever you do a transaction.
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12:18 <+roasbeef> kanzure: yeh you'd just need some sort of transport, implementation wise, if the state machine is encapsulated well, then would be pretty straight forward to support updates like that 
12:18 <+roasbeef> kanzure: we have a like 70% watchtower impl complete, we've revised the design a bit though since the initial stopgap on the code, will be hitting it a bit harder soon 
12:20 < kanzure> ok. so for now i should be telling people that (until watchtowers are working and operational) that you really should be online.
12:20 < kanzure> reason i asked earlier today was because i saw some marketing claim (on another system) claiming they had "off-line payment channels" and i had to wonder what off-line really means :-)
12:29 <+roasbeef> marketing claim for what system? 
12:29 <+roasbeef> kanzure: well depends, there's still the time delay 
12:32 < kanzure> teechains i think.
12:32 < kanzure> unrelated to lightning
12:32 < kanzure> (they use SGX but also claim to have offline payment channels)
12:32 <+roasbeef> ahh     
12:33 <+roasbeef> well with teechain, it's super diff, they just trust the hardware
12:33 <+roasbeef> like the assumption is that the teechain *can't* sign and piublish a prior state
12:33 <+roasbeef> idk if they fully figured out replay attacks tho 
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12:33 < kanzure> ah, so their payment channel state updates still require SGX trusted signing stuff
12:33 <+roasbeef> as the initial versions, everything was in memory, but then SGX monotonic counters only work on windows? (or something like that, there's a ton of restrictions, iirc) 
12:34 <+roasbeef> yeh, the simplest versino is: one enclave makes a privatge key, estabishes an attested channel to the other, then they use that to update the channel, no signatures required, so all symmetric crypto and can be pretty fast
12:34 <+roasbeef> a sig is only needed in the co-op close case
12:35 <+roasbeef> but ofc, as it's trusted hardware, there's a lot of caveats, like for example how does meltdown/spectre interact with SGX side channels?
12:35 <+roasbeef> can't use on mobile phones, my arm laptop, etc 
12:35 < kanzure> is there an actually reasonable usecase for "offline" lightning payment channels?
12:36 < kanzure> i guess you're walking around in a foreign country and maybe you don't have a data plan yet, but you already had a direct channel open with someone there. so it would be nice to not connect to networks in the mean time?
12:40 <+roasbeef> yeh that's a use case I guess 
12:41 <+roasbeef> there was this paper, can't recall atm, but it targetted like a public transport use case
12:41 <+roasbeef> where at the end of the day, the bus could tell if you tried to double spend a prior state
12:41 <+roasbeef> in a sense probalistic payments is a partial solution as well, assuming that the *other* party is online, and can dissminate all the past tickets you sent out in order to punish if you double spend by slashing your bond 
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15:19 < ianthius> anyone know the best way to test a node to make sure it's accepting incoming connections?
15:19 < ianthius> i have been able to open channels, but i just realized i might not have incoming channels given pretty strict firewall settings
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15:21 < mlz> ianthius, create two nodes and get them to connect/open channels to each other
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15:25 < ianthius> mlz: this was the first thing on my list but thought there might be an easier way, e.g some site someone had set up... Anyone want to try opening a channel with me?
15:27 < mlz> ianthius, are you on testnet?
15:29 < ianthius> nope :(
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15:30 < ianthius> although i could spin up a testnet node again i think. would be nice if clightning did different ports for testnet and mainnet, but i think they are the same :(
15:30 < ianthius> i think i can set the port in config though
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15:34 < mlz> ianthius, i can try to connect as a peer, what's your uri?
15:34 < mlz> and if i can't connect as a peer then it means your port isn't opened
15:36 < ianthius> pm'd you
15:37 < ianthius> thx     
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23:12 < ianthius> in c-lightning, anyone know how long a channel stays in ONCHAIND_MUTUAL in the listpeers? i already have the funds in my wallet and it's still in listpeers..
23:14 <+roasbeef> ianthius: how many confirmations has it been? .
23:20 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] ZmnSCPxj closed pull request #349: [1.1] Add `funding_cancelled` message. (master...funding-cancelled) https://git.io/vNknL
23:28 < ianthius> 9     
23:28 < ianthius> roasbeef: 9
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