--- Day changed Sun Jul 01 2018 00:00 -!- DictateThePace [~dictateth@2a00:23c4:6203:500:211:32ff:fe33:a40b] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:02 -!- DictateThePace [~dictateth@2a00:23c4:6203:500:211:32ff:fe33:a40b] has joined #lightning-dev 00:23 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 00:28 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:30 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 00:37 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:08 -!- Rooozalll_ [uid50160@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmowdmbmaxzsiivx] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 02:02 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 03:39 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:39 -!- riclas [~riclas@148.63.37.111] has joined #lightning-dev 03:40 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 03:45 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:01 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 04:02 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 04:07 -!- JackH [~laptop@i25091.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lightning-dev 04:36 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lightning-dev 04:41 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 04:57 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [] 05:01 < ivegotasthma> how do multiple addresses work in LND? 05:01 < ivegotasthma> is like having multiple users of the same wallet? 05:02 < ivegotasthma> s/is/is it 05:06 < ivegotasthma> I'm trying to write a client that's used by multiple people 05:11 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lightning-dev 05:13 < ivegotasthma> woop, wrong channel 05:13 -!- ivegotasthma [~ivegotast@unaffiliated/ivegotasthma] has left #lightning-dev ["WeeChat 2.1"] 05:19 -!- ebx [~ebx@unaffiliated/ebex] has joined #lightning-dev 05:40 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@skynet.skynet.ie] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:42 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@skynet.skynet.ie] has joined #lightning-dev 05:43 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@skynet.skynet.ie] has quit [Client Quit] 05:47 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@skynet.skynet.ie] has joined #lightning-dev 05:49 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@skynet.skynet.ie] has quit [Client Quit] 05:50 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@skynet.skynet.ie] has joined #lightning-dev 05:56 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:57 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has joined #lightning-dev 06:05 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-128-78.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:06 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-128-78.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 06:07 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:10 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lightning-dev 07:04 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@skynet.skynet.ie] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:14 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@skynet.skynet.ie] has joined #lightning-dev 07:22 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@skynet.skynet.ie] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:23 -!- harrigan [~harrigan@skynet.skynet.ie] has joined #lightning-dev 07:29 -!- douglas__ [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 07:43 -!- cryptapus [~cryptapus@unaffiliated/cryptapus] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:47 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:47 -!- cryptapus [~cryptapus@jupiter.osmus.org] has joined #lightning-dev 07:47 -!- cryptapus [~cryptapus@jupiter.osmus.org] has quit [Changing host] 07:47 -!- cryptapus [~cryptapus@unaffiliated/cryptapus] has joined #lightning-dev 08:08 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 08:21 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 08:23 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@bl20-188-116.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lightning-dev 08:26 -!- GTHaxor [~GTHaxor@2601:5c0:c100:ad70:428d:5cff:febf:8ade] has joined #lightning-dev 08:37 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41 -!- Tralfaz [~none@103.254.153.99] has joined #lightning-dev 08:47 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lightning-dev 09:01 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:11 -!- Grouver [~grouver@164-206-145-85.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lightning-dev 09:23 -!- betawaffle [~betawaffl@h1.kdf.io] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:24 -!- betawaffle [~betawaffl@h1.kdf.io] has joined #lightning-dev 09:38 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@bl20-188-116.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:04 -!- Grouver [~grouver@164-206-145-85.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:24 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lightning-dev 10:40 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:21 -!- Amperture [~amp@24.136.5.183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lightning-dev 11:23 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lightning-dev 11:25 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:53 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 11:58 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:04 -!- Tralfaz [~none@103.254.153.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:09 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:18 -!- Tralfaz [~none@103.254.153.99] has joined #lightning-dev 12:20 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 12:24 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 12:36 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #lightning-dev 12:36 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:56 < CubicEarths> Has there been any discussion on using lightning as an "out-of-band" payment method to pay transaction fees to miners for on chain txs? 13:07 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has left #lightning-dev ["Leaving"] 13:13 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lightning-dev 13:15 -!- GTHaxor1 [~GTHaxor@2601:5c0:c100:ad70:3013:fd2c:780e:cc39] has joined #lightning-dev 13:16 -!- GTHaxor [~GTHaxor@2601:5c0:c100:ad70:428d:5cff:febf:8ade] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:25 -!- tiagotrs [~user@x59cc8959.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lightning-dev 13:25 -!- tiagotrs [~user@x59cc8959.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Changing host] 13:25 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #lightning-dev 13:26 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:34 -!- Grouver [~grouver@164-206-145-85.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lightning-dev 13:35 -!- Grouver [~grouver@164-206-145-85.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 13:35 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:44 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:49 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:56 < lndbot> Could make fee estimation a bit tougher 13:58 -!- user__ [~user@x59cc897a.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lightning-dev 13:59 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:02 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:06 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 14:14 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 14:20 -!- j9m [~j9m@47.157.125.55] has joined #lightning-dev 14:24 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:28 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 14:32 -!- user__ [~user@x59cc897a.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:33 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:41 -!- user__ [~user@x59cc897a.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lightning-dev 14:47 -!- user__ [~user@x59cc897a.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:06 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 15:11 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:32 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 15:33 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lightning-dev 15:37 -!- user__ [~user@x59cc897a.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lightning-dev 15:37 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:41 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 15:45 -!- user__ [~user@x59cc897a.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:02 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:04 <+roasbeef> CubicEarths: what's there to discuss? it's possible, so is handing wang chun a $20 bill on the side 16:04 -!- GTHaxor1 [~GTHaxor@2601:5c0:c100:ad70:3013:fd2c:780e:cc39] has left #lightning-dev [] 16:06 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:12 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:14 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 16:31 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:34 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 16:35 < CubicEarths> It seems like it could be an efficient way to up the priority of a stuck tx. Especially a multisig, if the other party is no longer cooperating. CPFP works, but can be costly. 16:35 -!- TeaPanda [~TeaPanda@unaffiliated/teapanda] has joined #lightning-dev 16:35 < CubicEarths> And I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to make the LN payment condition on the intended tx being included in a block 16:35 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 16:36 < CubicEarths> maybe not much to discuss, just seemed interesting to me... 16:37 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:37 < lndbot> Could be a convoluted solution to the decentralized fee estimation problem. Once you can trustlessly pay for block inclusion that allows you to make a prediction market for block inclusion which the miners can then game by including low-probability transactions so in order to bump your fee you bet against yourself 16:39 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:40 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 16:42 <+roasbeef> CubicEarths: well you could use a sub-swap to pay your on chain fees with an off chain payment that paid out to an htlc, which you used as another input for rbf, or just for cpfp itself 16:44 <+roasbeef> actually, you could make it a two-part swap i guess, so the tx you're trying to pay fees for, is the one that actually produces the on chian htlc 16:44 <+roasbeef> so the payment to the miner is actually off chain, as in it's an extra LN fee 16:45 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:45 <+roasbeef> would wor as long as any dependant transactions are themselves using a liberal sighash flag, so it doesn't get invalidated when the parent changes 16:46 <+roasbeef> wor* 16:46 <+roasbeef> k 16:46 <+roasbeef> kek 16:46 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:50 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has joined #lightning-dev 16:50 <+roasbeef> could also be useful for commitment designs where the fee is always attached after the fact, as long as you have other open channels, then you can use thoes to pay for that initial fee 16:51 <+roasbeef> if you have a single channel, and that's all your funds/utxos, then i guess you could fire splice out a bit (enough that fees are neglible), then use that to pay the fee for the transaction 16:53 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lightning-dev 16:54 -!- JackH [~laptop@i25091.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:58 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:07 < TheCharlatan> A clightning HSM and frontend took the first prize at the chainhack in Lisbon this weekend. cdecker , how open are you towards direct hardware integration for hsmd (including communication protocol)? 17:09 <+roasbeef> TheCharlatan: direct hardware? would seem that one would just need to swap out w/e for the current ipc protocol they use 17:10 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 17:10 <+roasbeef> was it an actual hardware wallet? or just like some external rasp pi or something? 17:10 <+roasbeef> actual hsm* 17:12 <+roasbeef> also how does what was presented differ from using their hsmd as is, but on something like a usb armory? 17:14 < TheCharlatan> Just arduino with screen for confirmation for now, but should be doable with existing HW in a very similar fashion. Was asking to gauge the willingness to accept an extra service in the wallet that lets hsmd talk to actual hardware. 17:14 < TheCharlatan> s/wallet/client/g 17:14 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lightning-dev 17:16 <+roasbeef> TheCharlatan: gotcha, what i mean is that wouldn't you just swap out hsmd all togther? 17:16 <+roasbeef> as in any process can match the internal ipc protocol they use, and then an option for clightnig to have passed to it the unix socket that the hsmd-like process is listening on 17:18 < TheCharlatan> Yes, swapping out the process would certainly work as well, though I think it would be beneficially to offer direct in client support for external hardware. 17:18 <+roasbeef> ideally in the end, once bip 174 is "dunzo" it switches to using that 17:18 <+roasbeef> direct support? 17:18 <+roasbeef> well in that case, it would just connect to a serial port or w/e 17:18 <+roasbeef> what i'm getting at, is only the ipc matters 17:19 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:19 <+roasbeef> as in the actual daemon shuldn't care what's on the other end, just that it speaks the proper protocol 17:20 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:23 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 17:23 < TheCharlatan> I agree that this can be done as a pure external process, however it would be very convenient to have it built in as one of the service daemons in clightning. 17:23 <+roasbeef> i think you're missing my point: all that matters is the ipc 17:23 <+roasbeef> it could be on the moon, that's not an important detail 17:24 <+roasbeef> what do you mean by "built in as"? 17:24 <+roasbeef> you mean an "exception" where it knows it's talking to this arduino (or w/e)? 17:25 < TheCharlatan> "have it available in clightning as something like hardwared" 17:25 <+roasbeef> why does clightning need to be aware of _what_ is doing the signing? 17:25 <+roasbeef> the iportant abstraction here is the abstract ipc protocol 17:26 <+roasbeef> important* 17:27 <+roasbeef> for y'alls implementatino, i get the vibe you swapped out hsmd itself, rather than like having the arduino implement they're current ipc protocol transparently? 17:28 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:28 <+roasbeef> (fwiw i'm no c-lightning expert, this is just how _i'm_ thinking about this) 17:29 <+roasbeef> or do y'all have a write up somewhere? 17:31 < TheCharlatan> it was hacked directly into hsmd. 17:31 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 17:32 <+roasbeef> ahh gotcha 17:35 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lightning-dev 17:36 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:36 <+roasbeef> TheCharlatan: any links? 17:37 < TheCharlatan> https://github.com/hkjn/lnhw 17:40 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 17:40 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:56 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lightning-dev 17:58 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-179-222-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:01 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-179-222-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #lightning-dev 18:03 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:05 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:07 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-179-222-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:11 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #lightning-dev 18:11 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 18:13 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-179-222-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #lightning-dev 18:17 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-179-222-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lightning-dev 18:18 -!- bitconner [~conner@136.24.175.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:22 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:29 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 18:31 < CubicEarths> roasbeef: I'll have to dig into the mechanics a bit per your suggestions :) 18:32 < CubicEarths> alex > yes, could be part of such a market! 18:35 -!- ilyam [~ilyam@pool-108-46-142-209.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 18:38 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lightning-dev 18:39 -!- 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