--- Day changed Tue Jul 03 2018 00:01 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01 -!- tryphe [~tryphe@unaffiliated/tryphe] has joined #lightning-dev 00:02 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:05 -!- nodweber [~nodweber@unaffiliated/nodweber] has joined #lightning-dev 00:20 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-202-31-100.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Snoozing.] 00:33 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 00:42 < hkjn0> roasbeef: thanks for your feedback re: hw wallet structure.. we had to take shortcuts for the hackathon obv (also key material is shared outside hsmd in c-lightning r.n), but a larger project I'm working on is moving toward a standard for HW wallet APIs (including for LN).. talked to some bitbox / ledger folks so far to positive response.. stay posted! 00:49 -!- kiltzman [~k1ltzman@94.140.116.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:04 -!- daouzo23 [~daouzo23@wl-loc177-82.liwest.at] has joined #lightning-dev 01:12 -!- RubenSomsen [uid301948@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-txnbihlwcjebttfb] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:12 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@unaffiliated/waxwing] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:14 -!- daouzo235 [~daouzo23@wl-loc177-82.liwest.at] has joined #lightning-dev 01:14 < CubicEarths> hkjn0: Bitbox and lightning... very good!! 01:15 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:15 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@91.216.245.111] has joined #lightning-dev 01:15 -!- daouzo235 [~daouzo23@wl-loc177-82.liwest.at] has quit [Client Quit] 01:16 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 01:17 -!- daouzo23 [~daouzo23@wl-loc177-82.liwest.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:21 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #lightning-dev 01:21 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:20 -!- dmiles [dmiles@c-24-20-102-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:23 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lightning-dev 02:35 -!- ZmnSCPxj [9258463b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.146.88.70.59] has joined #lightning-dev 02:36 < ZmnSCPxj> good morning bsm117532, assuming you connect to LN, then all that is necessary is to somehow open a channel to *any* LN node, not keep updating a new channel. but depends on details of braidpool, so.... 02:37 < ZmnSCPxj> @roasbeef: Mostly agree for current LN, but, with AMP, channel capacity is less important. So I personally suggest to prioritize AMP than splice, but it seems my consideration is minority position 02:38 -!- tiagotrs [~user@x59cc89d6.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lightning-dev 02:38 -!- tiagotrs [~user@x59cc89d6.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Changing host] 02:38 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #lightning-dev 02:38 < ZmnSCPxj> @hjkn0, congratulations, this is very good. note there is issue that channel secrets are kept by software lightningd and so on but in principle *should* be in hsmd 02:39 < ZmnSCPxj> another issue is that I think there is an endianness dependency in computation of channel secrets, I noticed it while auditing code while studying how to factor out channel secrets to hsmd 02:39 < ZmnSCPxj> however have not had time to pursue it 02:40 < ZmnSCPxj> basically, as a sketch, the channel secrets are partly derived from the dbid of the channel (64-bit database index), but we copy it without considering endianness (I think....) 02:40 < ZmnSCPxj> this could be problematic when channel secrets are moved to an actual hardware hsmd 02:41 -!- ZmnSCPxj [9258463b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.146.88.70.59] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:45 -!- HeySteve [~hexchaaat@unaffiliated/heysteve] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:53 -!- HeySteve [~hexchaaat@unaffiliated/heysteve] has joined #lightning-dev 02:57 < hkjn0> ZmnSCPxj: thanks! it was your post to the ML from end of may that allowed us to map out where secrets spill out, and your suggested proposal sounds great.. lmk if there is an issue to track / contribute to the work (or we may be able to create one, in a while) 03:08 -!- schmidty [~schmidty@unaffiliated/schmidty] has joined #lightning-dev 03:11 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:17 -!- jonasschnelli [~jonasschn@unaffiliated/jonasschnelli] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:17 -!- dlb76 [~dlb76@unaffiliated/dlb76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:27 -!- schmidty 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noob 07:35 < lndtester11> having some trouble getting lnd to work with bitcoind but c lightning worked straight away 07:42 -!- Tralfaz [~none@103.254.153.99] has joined #lightning-dev 07:45 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 07:50 -!- Tralfaz [~none@103.254.153.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:53 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-223-113-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 07:57 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:58 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-223-113-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Snoozing.] 08:25 -!- Amperture [~amp@24.136.5.183] has joined #lightning-dev 08:25 -!- Amperture [~amp@24.136.5.183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25 -!- Amperture [~amp@24.136.5.183] has joined #lightning-dev 08:52 -!- RubenSomsen [uid301948@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zngyrfbvunlblewx] has joined #lightning-dev 08:53 -!- kiltzman [~k1ltzman@94.140.116.240] has joined #lightning-dev 09:37 -!- lndtester11 [~Beast@59.6.64.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:47 <+roasbeef> hkjn0: what standard? bip 174? 09:49 <+roasbeef> ZmnSCPxj: the roll out of the two are very diff, one just requires the end points, the other requires your links to understand. they can be done concurrently really, they have diff use cases and both are currently being developed concurreently 09:50 -!- j9m [~j9m@47.157.125.55] has joined #lightning-dev 10:13 -!- riclas [~riclas@148.63.37.111] has joined #lightning-dev 10:28 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lightning-dev 10:40 < hkjn0> roasbeef: BIP174 certainly goes a long way towards what I want, but not all the way there.. basic pitch is wanting to have one binary, which can talk to any of N existing or future hw wallets to do basic BIP32 stuff (generate new root key, fetch xpub at any level, sign with key at given path..), as well as "doing LN stuff", without needing internet connectivity to sign, much less third party servers 10:40 < hkjn0> .. 10:40 <+roasbeef> one binary? 10:40 <+roasbeef> no one said anything about 3rd party servers 10:40 < hkjn0> roasbeef: and if a new hw wallet came onto the scene, the software shouldn't need to be changed at all (waves hands about plugins for different communication paths like bluetooth, QR code, USB..) 10:40 <+roasbeef> fwiw, not like people haven't tried this in the pst 10:41 <+roasbeef> all hardware wallets use their own protocol 10:41 <+roasbeef> trezor protobuf based, ledger custom binary format, dunno what bitbox uses 10:41 <+roasbeef> the hard part isn't the spec or format, it's the coordination costs 10:42 < hkjn0> roasbeef: yes, I'm aware, hoping to avoid the stuff that derailed other ones.. fwiw nicolas bacca was very positive about supporting it, as were the digitalbitbox folks on our team.. so there's a start 10:42 <+roasbeef> last year in berlin i attend a meeting w/ most wallet devs, trezor+ledger were there as well, was pretty much just a stalemate when it came to "the hardware wallets should speak the same protocol" 10:42 <+roasbeef> what "LN stuff" beyond signing? 10:43 <+roasbeef> "this time it's different", we'll see...lol 10:43 < hkjn0> roasbeef: happy to continue over email or priv message later (this might not be of general LN interest?), but should focus more on the BoB panel I'm watching for now.. ttyl 10:58 -!- Tralfaz [~none@103.254.153.99] has joined #lightning-dev 11:07 -!- antanst [~antanst@adsl-173.37.6.1.tellas.gr] has joined #lightning-dev 11:22 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50 -!- whythat [~whythat@gateway/tor-sasl/whythat] has joined #lightning-dev 11:59 -!- face [~face@80.72.82.160.coresnet.bg] has joined #lightning-dev 12:12 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:21 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:27 -!- ghost43 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