--- Day changed Tue Aug 28 2018 00:33 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:37 -!- Rootsudo [~textual@180.190.112.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:49 -!- wxss [~user@158.58.172.183] has joined #lightning-dev 00:59 -!- wxss [~user@158.58.172.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:01 -!- wxss [~user@109.236.91.108] has joined #lightning-dev 01:08 -!- gernot [~gernot@unaffiliated/gernot] has joined #lightning-dev 01:11 -!- wxss [~user@109.236.91.108] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:12 -!- wxss [~user@109.236.91.108] has joined #lightning-dev 01:52 -!- itaseski [~itaseski@213.135.176.221] has joined #lightning-dev 02:04 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-67-188-149-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 02:09 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #lightning-dev 02:11 -!- Blackwolfsa [sid307900@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lmvzimeogikvzwmt] has joined #lightning-dev 02:19 -!- itaseski [~itaseski@213.135.176.221] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:36 -!- cjs77_ [sid302240@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lavqplbptzstfdzp] has left #lightning-dev [] 02:37 -!- cjs77_ [sid302240@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lavqplbptzstfdzp] has joined #lightning-dev 02:39 -!- math_ is now known as math 02:39 -!- math is now known as mthiel 02:41 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:8452:74d2:538b:f265] has joined #lightning-dev 02:41 -!- cjs77_ [sid302240@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lavqplbptzstfdzp] has left #lightning-dev [] 02:45 < cjs77> *discussions. Sorry for the spam 02:46 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:8452:74d2:538b:f265] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:46 -!- jj876 [c5f5add2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.197.245.173.210] has joined #lightning-dev 02:46 -!- jj876 [c5f5add2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.197.245.173.210] has quit [Client Quit] 02:55 -!- volition [volition@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/volition] has joined #lightning-dev 03:26 -!- BlueMatt [~BlueMatt@unaffiliated/bluematt] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:59 -!- wxss [~user@109.236.91.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:59 -!- wxss [~user@158.58.172.183] has joined #lightning-dev 04:02 -!- riclas [~riclas@148.63.37.111] has joined #lightning-dev 04:08 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-67-188-149-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:19 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-67-188-149-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 04:24 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-67-188-149-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 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ZZZzzz…] 09:17 -!- Rootsudo [~textual@180.191.157.73] has joined #lightning-dev 09:29 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-67-188-149-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 09:34 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-67-188-149-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:50 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-67-188-149-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 09:55 -!- bitconner [~conner@c-67-188-149-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:05 -!- Rootsudo [~textual@180.191.157.73] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 10:20 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@185.44.76.121] has joined #lightning-dev 10:26 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@185.44.76.121] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 10:29 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:27 -!- xchuck00 [~xchuck00@unaffiliated/xchuck00] has joined #lightning-dev 11:33 -!- kallisteiros [scientist@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kallisteiros] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:39 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-232-211.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lightning-dev 11:39 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-232-211.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:39 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #lightning-dev 12:04 -!- kallisteiros [scientist@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kallisteiros] has joined #lightning-dev 12:32 -!- booyah_ [~bb@193.25.1.157] has joined #lightning-dev 12:32 -!- booyah_ is now known as THE_JUDGE 12:33 -!- THE_JUDGE [~bb@193.25.1.157] has quit [Client Quit] 12:35 -!- adiabat [~adiabat@63.209.32.102] has joined #lightning-dev 12:35 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:38 -!- wxss [~user@109.236.91.108] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:40 -!- gmaxwell [gmaxwell@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has joined #lightning-dev 12:42 < gmaxwell> Has anyone looked into hurestics for autopilot to improve the network mincut? e.g. Randomly drop 1% of nodes (weighed by availablity data), then compute how autopilot weights for the network with dropout.. then do it again 1000 times... and pick based on the average weights. things along that line. 12:54 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 12:54 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:59 -!- GTHaxor [~GTHaxor@pool-70-106-244-199.clppva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:00 < lndbot> Would that be the highest benefit for the user? Or that would be for overall network utility? 13:01 < lndbot> René has been posting recently about autopilot heuristics on the mailing list 13:04 < gmaxwell> it would benefit both the user and the network for the same reason... that node outages would have less effect on the max-flow between parts of the network. I think that using something like the dropout above would result in a topology that is more robust to nodes going offline than things like trying to minimize the average distance. 13:04 < lndbot> @gmaxwell: been thinking something similar but randomly dropping channels rather than nodes, thereby also simulating unfortunate balances 13:06 < gmaxwell> robban: hm. So in network route planning stuff I did in a past life, we didn't bother with simulating link failure because a node failure is a superset of link failures... a network that is robust against node failures is also robust against link failures. 13:06 < lndbot> Empirically I can see users caring only about their little world, but that could just be a scoping question 13:07 < gmaxwell> But I guess if exhausted channels are very common relative to whole node failures, then it would make sense to model them. 13:08 < gmaxwell> alexbosworth: well it matters for the user because it makes them less likely to have routing failures, also makes them more likely to flow more third party traffic in the event of a failure elsewhere. 13:08 < lndbot> Sure if you consider their world 13:08 < lndbot> One thing I see is that people launch nodes that aren’t really ever going to be useful to someone 13:09 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@16.77.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lightning-dev 13:09 < lndbot> It’s kind of a sybil problem, it’s hard to weight by value because people just spam high value and you can’t see the balance ratio 13:09 < lndbot> Or people have also been launching tons of nodes all over the place that really are just run by the same person, so you would want to consider them as a cluster 13:10 < lndbot> @gmaxwell i also have internet network experience in a past life. this balance thing is an extra new twist which is very interesting. it is far more common the failure in a link is because of the balance rather than a node being down. that said of course it is easy to do both, discard X% of channels *and* all channels connected with Y% of the nodes. 13:15 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #lightning-dev 13:16 < lndbot> rompert one thing I noticed about your peer suggestion concept is that you suggest peers with very wide channel distribution but very low value commitments 13:17 < lndbot> I have been thinking that a good way to weight is via observed, revenue generating activity 13:18 < lndbot> @alexbosworth yeah it doesn’t care at all right now. but it is very fast using precomplied filters for reach. but i’m planning to replace it with the above algorithm once i’ve decided a little bit more. 13:18 < lndbot> cool 13:19 < lndbot> It would be interesting to run some different autopilots as controlled experiments and see which generate the highest routing fees 13:25 -!- GTHaxor [~GTHaxor@pool-70-106-244-199.clppva.fios.verizon.net] has left #lightning-dev [] 13:36 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:42 -!- adiabat [~adiabat@63.209.32.102] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 14:04 -!- xchuck00 [~xchuck00@unaffiliated/xchuck00] has quit [] 14:20 -!- Urgo [~Urgo@cpe-107-15-142-254.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:21 -!- GTHaxor [~GTHaxor@pool-70-106-244-199.clppva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lightning-dev 14:25 -!- xchuck00 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[~unixb0y@p2E555C15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lightning-dev 19:04 < shesek> Hi everyone. I just released Spark, a new wallet GUI for c-lightning: https://github.com/shesek/spark-wallet https://medium.com/@notgrubles/spark-a-new-gui-for-c-lightning-2cf2f024500c (#spark-wallet) 19:27 -!- riclas [~riclas@148.63.37.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:42 -!- TD--Linux [~Thomas@kyoko.thomasdaede.com] has joined #lightning-dev 19:43 -!- jonasschnelli_ [~jonasschn@2a01:4f8:172:10da::2] has joined #lightning-dev 19:43 -!- Guest33285_ [sid152634@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ihmfpupbbitlofwv] has joined #lightning-dev 19:43 -!- jerseykx_ [sid110825@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orljurunaisadacz] has joined #lightning-dev 19:43 -!- sugarpuff [sid92283@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bhachlfyvwfwrftu] has joined #lightning-dev 19:43 -!- wbnns_ [sid105317@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkryehdghyspgaba] has joined #lightning-dev 19:43 -!- CodeShark [sid126576@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qyumhrhgrrskpdss] has joined #lightning-dev 19:43 -!- Liliaceae [sid282374@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-snditccawapsxbyv] has joined #lightning-dev 19:43 -!- grubles [~grubles@gateway/tor-sasl/grubles] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46 -!- sugarpuff [sid92283@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bhachlfyvwfwrftu] has quit [Changing host] 19:46 -!- sugarpuff [sid92283@unaffiliated/sugarpuff] has joined #lightning-dev 19:46 -!- sugarpuff [sid92283@unaffiliated/sugarpuff] has quit [Changing host] 19:46 -!- sugarpuff [sid92283@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bhachlfyvwfwrftu] has joined #lightning-dev 19:49 -!- TD--Linux [~Thomas@kyoko.thomasdaede.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:49 -!- TD--Linux [~Thomas@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux] has joined #lightning-dev 19:49 -!- TD--Linux is now known as TD-Linux 19:53 -!- Apocalyptic [~Apocalypt@unaffiliated/apocalyptic] has joined #lightning-dev 19:58 -!- grubles [~grubles@gateway/tor-sasl/grubles] has joined #lightning-dev 19:58 -!- [b__b] [~b__b]@ec2-54-85-45-223.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 19:58 -!- midnightmagic [~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has joined #lightning-dev 20:02 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #lightning-dev 20:36 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:48 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:03 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:18 -!- bitconner [~conner@64-71-8-130.static.wiline.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:37 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:4455:5da2:fcdb:e685] has joined #lightning-dev 21:38 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:4455:5da2:fcdb:e685] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:4455:5da2:fcdb:e685] has joined #lightning-dev 21:43 -!- Kaizen_ [~kaizen_@2605:a601:b021:f00:4455:5da2:fcdb:e685] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13 -!- Rootsudo [~textual@180.191.157.73] has joined #lightning-dev 22:20 -!- kiltzman [~k1ltzman@94.140.116.240] has joined #lightning-dev 22:26 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lightning-dev 22:29 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29 -!- grubles [~grubles@gateway/tor-sasl/grubles] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 22:30 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has joined #lightning-dev 22:30 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lightning-dev 22:31 -!- Rootsudo [~textual@180.191.157.73] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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