--- Log opened Tue Mar 19 00:00:20 2019
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04:49 < renlord> hey, how do offered htlc outpoints get properly removed?
04:49 < renlord> is it a requirement to have received `update_fulfill_htlc` before an offered htlc outpoint gets removed?
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07:01 < cdecker> renlord: `update_fulfill_htlc`, `update_fail_htlc` and `update_fail_malformed_htlc` will take care of removing HTLCs
07:01 < cdecker> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/blob/090af1a22d00eb7ad57419eb45d7e206610aeade/02-peer-protocol.md#removing-an-htlc-update_fulfill_htlc-update_fail_htlc-and-update_fail_malformed_htlc
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07:15 < renlord> cdecker: in the diagram, i assume the fulfillment for htlc (1) takes place after step 5 when the htlc is irrevocably committed?
07:32 < cdecker> Yes, HTLCs cannot be removed unless they are committed
07:36 < renlord> cdecker: just one last question, im guessing removed htlc will always get merged back into one of to_local/to_remote outpoints therefore commitment txs with htlcs generally dont get broadcasted (assuming optimal operation condition)?
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08:34 < cdecker> Yes, the funds get moved to one of those, depending on who offered and whether the HTLC was fulfilled or not :-)
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13:38 < ianthius> can someone point me to any doc on paying without an invoice? i think it was called sphinx? is there a spec somewhere? my googling came up empty for some reason.
13:39 < lndbot> <alexbosworth> lnd has a PR for this but it isn’t a formal standard
13:44 < ianthius> just a PR or was there a whitepaper of some sort? thx Alex.
13:46 < lndbot> <alexbosworth> Just a PR
13:46 < ianthius> roasbeef: did your paying without an invoice change have a spec or just a PR?
13:46 < ianthius> got it, i'll look for the PR then and try and figure out what is going on. :)
13:47 < ianthius> cdecker: is there a plan on the clightning side to support this?
13:48 < ianthius> everyone: so there is not BOLT for it?
13:48 < lndbot> <alexbosworth> There is no BOLT for it
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13:50 < ianthius> thx
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15:49 <+roasbeef> ianthius: that was a PoC more or less, still other work to be done on the protocol level of agreeing on a format, etc, there'll be new/modified BOLT docs once it's all said and done 
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18:01 < drolmer> the way the current channels work, is the channel-opening  initiator the one paying (a.k.a. providing the funds) for the TX fees (inc. committed fees)? Or it depends on the closing circumstances (forced-closing/coop-closing and if the initiator is the one requesting the channel closing)?
18:06 < rusty> Yes, initiator currently always pays fees.  Simple.  Not fair.
18:06 < drolmer> cool, thx
18:11 < lndbot> <moli> we'll ask rusty this question again next week. simple. not fair.  :)
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--- Log closed Wed Mar 20 00:00:21 2019