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[~quassel@181.61.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lightning-dev 13:45 < jtimon> yesterday I didn't want to distract with the meeting and all 13:45 < jtimon> but some feedback on https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/616 would be really awesome. I know it's an early draft, but what if the idea makes no sense for some reason I'm missing and I keep spending time on it? 13:58 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:59 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:03 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 14:10 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@2a00:23c5:be04:e501:40f6:40c9:a5d8:162e] has joined #lightning-dev 14:21 -!- arij [uid225068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rddqqjathyifhajp] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 14:28 -!- siom [~siom@165.84.231.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:34 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:44 -!- arij [uid225068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntntodzijfqterkj] has joined #lightning-dev 15:08 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #lightning-dev 15:17 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@2a00:23c5:be04:e501:40f6:40c9:a5d8:162e] has quit [Quit: Sleep mode] 15:26 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:26 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 16:32 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #lightning-dev 17:12 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has joined #lightning-dev 17:13 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:17 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:25 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:26 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lightning-dev 17:31 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 17:39 -!- riclas [~riclas@148.63.37.111] has joined #lightning-dev 17:53 -!- oneark [uid254801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xlprvonrtprgksnd] has joined #lightning-dev 17:54 -!- itsiku [~itsiku@abelohost-34.207.207.185.dedicated-ip.abelons.com] has joined #lightning-dev 18:10 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 18:17 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:17 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 18:22 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:23 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 18:28 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:31 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 18:35 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35 -!- ccdle12_ [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 18:38 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 18:40 -!- ccdle12_ [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:42 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:45 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 18:50 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:00 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 19:05 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:08 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 19:13 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:15 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 19:19 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:27 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 19:32 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:33 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 19:38 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lightning-dev 19:38 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:39 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 19:40 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 19:46 < rusty> jtimon: I don't believe routing through a different chainhash will ever make sense. And additional fee structures are just weird; you can advertise base + percentage already, and I've yet to see an argument for anything more complex (which similarly makes routing that much more complex) 19:47 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:48 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 19:51 -!- ccdle12_ [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 19:53 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 19:56 -!- ccdle12_ [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:57 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 20:01 -!- sh_smith [~sh_smith@cpe-76-174-26-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 20:01 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:03 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 20:08 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:09 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 20:10 -!- mikerah [~mikerah@2607:fea8:875f:f8d0::2] has joined #lightning-dev 20:14 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:19 -!- riclas [~riclas@148.63.37.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:21 -!- hrofu [~hrofu@unaffiliated/hrofu] has joined #lightning-dev 20:37 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has joined #lightning-dev 20:39 < jtimon> rusty: but the fees are per channel, not per channel combination. I don't understand why you don't think routing through different chain hashes makes sense. can you extend on that? 20:41 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@175.45.39.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47 -!- lukedashjr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #lightning-dev 20:47 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:51 -!- lukedashjr is now known as luke-jr 21:14 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 21:16 < rusty> jtimon: There's the free option problem, but it's more that I think we're going to have to have anti-spam protection against long-held HTLCs at some point. The only scheme which has been suggested which works as a disincentive is to require nodes prove they closed a channel after some timeout (ie. it really was stuck). That only works if I can verify the channel close, which means it has to be a bitcoin channel. 21:19 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #lightning-dev 21:22 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:22 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #lightning-dev 21:25 <+roasbeef> there's also pay-per-htlc 21:25 <+roasbeef> so paid to even add an htlc to a node's commitment on the network 21:25 <+roasbeef> pay* 21:25 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@14-0-226-131.static.pccw-hkt.com] has joined #lightning-dev 21:25 < rusty> roasbeef: we need that too, to avoid spammign with lots of short-lived HTLCs. 21:26 <+roasbeef> yeah i keep coming back to it, addresses a ton of issues, but then requires more precise routing attempts at the clients in order to not make everything more expensive as a whole 21:36 -!- JoKe[m] [jokesharek@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dsthhwohbnxlbkiz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36 -!- DavidMitchell[m] [davidfedii@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vnfquqwszenflasf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36 -!- TheFuzzStone[m] [thefuzzsto@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-adccvabwntojfear] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36 -!- devdig[m] [devdigmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uukjtkrlaxdqajso] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36 -!- interfect[m] [interfectm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rmvfrdyhnsuxeyoe] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36 -!- electric-sheep[m [electric-s@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hsbpcctfzdjudmva] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37 < rusty> roasbeef: indeed.... 21:40 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@14-0-226-131.static.pccw-hkt.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@107.181.189.45] has joined #lightning-dev 21:41 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@107.181.189.45] has quit [Changing host] 21:41 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has joined #lightning-dev 21:41 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lightning-dev 21:42 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lightning-dev 21:44 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 21:46 -!- JoKe[m] [jokesharek@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-enzlwghhoqcmkejn] has joined #lightning-dev 22:20 -!- jtimon [~quassel@181.61.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:27 -!- devdig[m] [devdigmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eybxscuybssednfa] has joined #lightning-dev 22:27 -!- DavidMitchell[m] [davidfedii@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-evzgogrhusojzcrh] has joined #lightning-dev 22:27 -!- TheFuzzStone[m] [thefuzzsto@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fqgbvewzdcxnkjck] has joined #lightning-dev 22:27 -!- electric-sheep[m [electric-s@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eeyrtjprtiwakdbs] has joined #lightning-dev 22:27 -!- interfect[m] [interfectm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wintfkacgrwuffkk] has joined #lightning-dev 22:31 -!- ulrichard [~richi@dzcpe6300borminfo01-e0.static-hfc.datazug.ch] has joined #lightning-dev 22:39 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lightning-dev 22:45 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lightning-dev 23:04 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:07 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lightning-dev 23:09 -!- ThomasV [~thomasv@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:26 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@218.189.35.1] has joined #lightning-dev 23:54 -!- __gotcha [~Thunderbi@plone/gotcha] has joined #lightning-dev --- Log closed Wed May 29 00:00:26 2019