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12:59 < bitconner> are we doing a hangout meeting today?
12:59 < t-bast> hey conner
12:59 < niftynei> hello!
12:59 < bitconner> hi t-bast!
12:59 < bitconner> and niftynei
12:59 < t-bast> wasn't aware we're switching to hangout...?
13:00 < t-bast> I think there was a big NACK from many people on that
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13:00 < rusty> Hello everyone!
13:00 < t-bast> even though I'd like the extra productivity of a video meeting
13:00 < t-bast> Hey Rusty
13:02 < rusty> I thought the idea was to do it in parallel, which might be fun.  Can't hurt to try!
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13:02 < t-bast> I'm all for it then, do we have this easily setup for today or should we start that next time?
13:03 < bitconner> rusty: same that was my understanding
13:03 < bitconner> i can make a link
13:04 < t-bast> great ty
13:04 < bitconner> https://meet.google.com/eue-gowi-nzm
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13:07 < cdecker> @here spec meeting now ^^ 
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13:09 < bitconner> #startmeeting
13:09 < lightningbot> Meeting started Mon Sep 16 20:09:08 2019 UTC.  The chair is bitconner. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:09 < lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:09 < rusty> ... still asking (someone?) to join hangout apparently...
13:10 < t-bast> censorship? in this space? how can that be
13:12 < bitconner> #topic static remote key https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/642
13:18 < t-bast> am I the only one that hear only half what conner says?
13:19 < sstone> same here
13:19 < rusty> ARguing over game theory at the moment.  Symmetry is better, but the conditions where you want to game the peer into closing is pretty narrow: if you can talk to them, you can just shutdown.  If you can't, it's hard to make them unilateral close.
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13:21 < bitconner> slow internetz, sorry :(
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13:23 < t-bast> no problem, we'll interpolate the missing parts ;)
13:24 < rusty> bitconner reports roasbeef says c-lightning interop worked.  W00t!
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13:29 < rusty> Seems consensus is that option_simplified_commitment should consider symmetry for CSV (with constrained set of allowed CSV values).
13:29 < bitconner> #agreed push static remote key through as is, defer discussion of csv to option simplified commitment
13:30 < bitconner> #agree to merge pending roasbeef
13:30 < t-bast> ACK
13:30 < cdecker> ACK
13:30 < rusty> ack!!
13:31 < sstone> ack :)
13:32 < bitconner> #topic extending gossip queries https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/557
13:32 < bitconner> ack
13:33 < rusty> ack!
13:34 < t-bast> ack
13:36 < rusty> w00t!
13:36 < bitconner> #agree merge!!!!
13:37 < bitconner> #agreed mergee!!!
13:37 < t-bast> yay!
13:38 < bitconner> #topic flat feature bits https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/666
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13:41 <+roasbeef> rusty: re csv, we already stripped down the proposal to be as minimal as posisble so we can deploy 
13:41 < bitconner> concept ACK, lprevent feature bit collision and can retroactively modify where feature bits are advertised
13:41 < rusty> roasbeef: agreed.
13:42 < rusty> bitconner: OK, will change mbz to allow non-zero, but mark it deprecated.
13:42 < bitconner> roasbeef, yeah we agreed to defer csv discussion to simplified commitment
13:42 < t-bast> ACK on #666, pending the change to allow for non-0 global features since master branches of eclair and lnd currently advertize it
13:42 < rusty> (Eclair and LND advertize global today in init in their master)
13:43 <+roasbeef> what's teh feature bit change? 
13:44 < t-bast> flattening everything
13:44 < t-bast> not separating between local / global
13:44 < bitconner> enforce that global features in init  should always be zero-length, and put them all in current local field
13:44 < rusty> roasbeef: single feature field in init, each feature  decides how and where it's advertized (init, node_announcement, channel_announcement).
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13:47 <+roasbeef> must this be done before rolling out the static key commitmetn stuff? feels liek it'll delay the deployment of a pretty critical safety improvement even further 
13:47 < rusty> roasbeef: doesn't affect it AFAICT?
13:47 <+roasbeef> this is mostly cosmetic
13:47 <+roasbeef> well it would become a dep 
13:47 < bitconner> #action continue work on PR, general agreement with direction
13:48 < bitconner> #topic base amp https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/643
13:53 < bitconner> all payments in the future will be amp or mpp payments and being dprecating current style of single-shot payments
13:53 < t-bast> agreed
13:53 < bitconner> allows bundling of invoice secret into mpp proposal and invoice changes
13:53 < bitconner> amp tlv payloads can just be a further extension of mpp fields
13:53 < t-bast> SGTM, feel free to rename it too, I just wanted to get the ball rolling on adding that field
13:54 < rusty> Yep, so the same feature bit means both.  Also spec should spell out the implication that it means the final node accepts TLV, even if you didn't see a node_announcement.
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14:03 < bitconner> #action rusty to think through overpayment scenarios
14:03 < rusty> Discussion was on whether we want to keep fuzzing amounts with MPP or not..
14:04 < rusty> #action rusty to rebase 643 
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14:06 < rusty> Note: Propose meeting in 4 weeks moved earlier a few days, to 5pm Friday Berlin time, so we can do this face-to-face at TheLightningConference.com.
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14:10 < bitconner> #action continue discussion of single tlv or split on pr
14:10 < bitconner> #endmeeting
14:10 < lightningbot> Meeting ended Mon Sep 16 21:10:45 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
14:10 < lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/lightning-dev/2019/lightning-dev.2019-09-16-20.09.html
14:10 < lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/lightning-dev/2019/lightning-dev.2019-09-16-20.09.txt
14:10 < lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/lightning-dev/2019/lightning-dev.2019-09-16-20.09.log.html
14:11 < t-bast> thanks for chairing and for setting up the hangout conner, see you on github
14:11 < bitconner> should have switched to phone internet sooner 😅
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14:14 < cdecker> No problem, the captions actually worked surprisingly well :-)
14:14 < cdecker> If only we could create an automated transcript
14:22 <+roasbeef> said last week would have another call going during this call, but forgot I have another actual meeting lol, so will try it next week if I can move around this meeting 
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14:49 < darosior> Hi, if you move from IRC to video meetings, would it be possible to make the calls publicly available ? Actually I enjoyed reading spec meetings logs, and when I clicked on the link I got only the "join the call" option.
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21:59 < lndbot> <conner> darisior we can look more into if we can make a totally public call. typically one has to click thru the join the meeting screen, but only saw a handful of people request to join late. we were taking late comers!
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--- Log closed Tue Sep 17 00:00:14 2019