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06:05 < bsm117532> I remember some conversation about encapsulating "dangerous" ops like NOINPUT/ANYPREVOUT behind an "invalid segwit address version" -- so that dangerous ops wouldn't have corresponding addresses but could still be redeemed using segwit scripts for protocols like lightning.
06:05 < bsm117532> Can anyone jog my memory on this? Re-reading BIP142, this seems not possible...
06:06 < bsm117532> (and/or, what's the status of NOINPUT?)
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08:14 < darosior> bsm117532: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/bitcoin-core-dev-tech/2019-06-06-noinput-etc/ is a good summary, I think
08:16 < darosior> Since then there's been this thread https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2019-September/017326.html
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09:55 < sword_smith> How can lightning support units smaller than satoshi (millisatoshi) when the settlement transactions are regular bitcoin transactions where the units are satoshi?
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10:14 < riclas> i'm guessing as long as you don't settle you don't need to round amounts xd
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10:15 < riclas> or you settle and keep the change in the ln node :()
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10:38 < sword_smith> Balances in a channel are updated by exhanging signed transactions emptying the P2WSH address which constitutes the channel. These transactions are then not published/mined in the base case but instead just held onto by both parties and later replaced by a new transaction emptying the same address.
10:39 < sword_smith> If you want to keep track of anything on a smaller level than satoshi, you need separate state in the channel for that.
10:39 < sword_smith> And I guess that this separate state is not trustless.
10:40 < sword_smith> I can't see how it could be.
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12:06 < cdecker> We track amounts in millisatoshi, but the commitments always round down to the closest satoshi (the diff goes to fees). This allows us to accumulate these tiny amounts until they become redeemable.
12:07 < cdecker> You could say that sub-satoshi amounts do not matter, until they do (by accumulating many of them they can matter, but the individual one simply doesn't)
12:10 < riclas> yeah that's what i tried to say. but i don't have the answer for his other claims
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12:19 < sword_smith> cdecker: You track them which implies that a channel has more state than just the latest set of signed transactions?
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14:26 < cdecker> Yes, like I said, we track msats, perform updates and commits whenever there is a change, and that is then reflected in the rounded down satoshi amounts on the commitment tx
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14:30 < sword_smith>  I see. That makes sense.
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--- Log closed Wed Apr 15 00:00:10 2020