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12:51 < BlueMatt[m]> not gonna make the meeting today
12:52 < realtbast[m]> No worries, we may still be able to get your PR included ;)
12:53 < BlueMatt[m]> sgtm. lmk if y'all want changes from the meeting, I'll change it accordingly.
12:53 < realtbast[m]> I'm also curious to hear the LDK plans for dual funding, but that can wait (or if someone else from your team is there, maybe they can chime in)
12:54 < BlueMatt[m]> I'd assume at least one someone else from our team will join, but as for dual-funding I think its sadly not yet on the roadmap. that would change if we end up with any users asking for it, but I don't think we have that yet.
12:55 < BlueMatt[m]> splicing, or at least the long-term-splice-option stuff is almost certainly a higher priority.
12:55 < BlueMatt[m]> but it sounds like the BOLT splicing spec will be something different so we may have to do something fresh there.
12:55 < realtbast[m]> Agreed, splicing is a priority for us too, we'll be working on it soon, it does use parts of dual funding as a building block, that's why we started with dual funding
12:56 < realtbast[m]> Actually most of the dual funding PR is about the interactive-tx protocol, which we'll very likely reuse for any kind of splicing 
12:56 < BlueMatt[m]> ah. well as-currently-bolt-specified-splicing is probably also much lower on our priority list than "long-term-splice-option" splicing
12:56 < BlueMatt[m]> so we may do that first.
12:56 < BlueMatt[m]> "interactive-tx protocol"?
12:56 < BlueMatt[m]> like rusty's simplified commitment negotiation thing?
12:56 < realtbast[m]> no it's a different thing
12:57 < realtbast[m]> it's a protocol to collaboratively build a transaction
12:57 < realtbast[m]> with messages for each side to add/remove inputs/outputs
12:57 < BlueMatt[m]> ah, okay.
12:57 < realtbast[m]> just so that at the end you both have the same transaction, with a shared output and the right feerate
12:57 < BlueMatt[m]> does it have support for extensions we couldu se for "long-term-splicing-option"?
12:57 < realtbast[m]> niftynei expressed that in lightning messages, with a clear turn-based protocol
12:57 < BlueMatt[m]> (it would be nice if it did)
12:57 < realtbast[m]> yes definitely, it's very flexible
12:58 < BlueMatt[m]> well long-term-splicing-option isnt just a script, its really a point and a pre-defined script template.
12:58 < realtbast[m]> regardless of what we want to do specifically for splicing, I'm pretty sure we'll use this interactive-tx protocol to build the splice tx
12:58 < BlueMatt[m]> so if its requires you, like, send a script, then that's not really lined up.
12:58 < realtbast[m]> it's quite orthogonal from what is actually inside the transaction
12:59 < realtbast[m]> it just ensures you get a valid transaction with the right feerate and both sides adding funds to a shared output
12:59 < BlueMatt[m]> ah, right, i was just talking about splice-out, not adding
13:00 < realtbast[m]> I believe that would work for splice-out as well, where you just "reduce" your contribution to the shared output
13:00 < realtbast[m]> it's worth having a look to check if you see something in the protocol that would not work for future splicing
13:00 < BlueMatt[m]> huh, okay, I'll have to look into it. In any case not sure I'll have a ton of time any time soon :/
13:01 < realtbast[m]> We can discuss this at the end of the month, we probably won't merge dual funding before that (even though we should have two implementations of it)
13:01 < BlueMatt[m]> okay, sounds good.
13:02 < realtbast[m]> It's meeting time, hello everyone! 
13:02 < realtbast[m]> Agenda is available here: https://github.com/lightning/bolts/issues/986
13:02 < vincenzopalazzo> realtbast: hello!
13:02 < realtbast[m]> Video link is here: https://meet.jit.si/Lightning-Spec-Meeting
13:02 < devrandom> hello
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13:03 < realtbast[m]> devrandom: I skimmed through your email just before the meeting, I haven't looked at your detailed policies yet, but I completely agree that blind signing is harmful :)
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13:04 < devrandom> very good :)
13:05 < devrandom> (the fact I sent it just before this meeting was just a coincidence BTW)
13:19 < niftynei____> BlueMatt[m]: do you have a write up of what you mean by "long-term-splice-option"? we've talked about it a few times, but it'd be easier to refer back to w/ a writeup
13:19 < niftynei____> specifically "long-term-splicing-option isnt just a script, its really a point and a pre-defined script template."
13:19 < niftynei____> i'm suspicious there's a mailing list post i missed here
13:20 < BlueMatt[m]> I have not written it up, but, yea, just what we’d talked about previously - permanently maintaining a second commitment transaction layer with a revocable output
13:20 < BlueMatt[m]> No, unlike the offline receive stuff, there’s no ML post that everyone missed this time lol
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14:01 < niftynei____> at some level, that's so0o0o different from the "splicing" dustin's been working on as to really merit a different name imo 
14:02 < niftynei____> but willing to accept i'm wrong on this lol
14:03 < BlueMatt[m]> yea, I know I initially disagreed with this, but I'm coming around.
14:03 < BlueMatt[m]> it is super different.
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14:17 < BlueMatt[m]> cdecker yes. the 0conf pr as specified totally supports "optional 0conf"
14:17 < BlueMatt[m]> I left a comment at https://github.com/lightning/bolts/issues/986#issuecomment-1121590458
14:17 < BlueMatt[m]> but LDK will almost certainly never set the 0conf channel type bit - I dont think we see a use for it.
14:18 < BlueMatt[m]> previous rusty had said CLN will do the same.
14:18 < BlueMatt[m]> but none of that precludes using a channel at 0 confs or setting the min_depth to 0.
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--- Log closed Tue May 10 00:00:19 2022