--- Log opened Mon Oct 24 00:00:57 2022
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11:46 < realtbast[m]> heya, spec meeting in 15 minutes: https://github.com/lightning/bolts/issues/1033
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19:52 < dongcarl> Do all lightning implementations allow overpaying in the non-MPP case?
19:52 < BlueMatt[m]> Yes, per the BOLTs nodes must always accept overpayment up to 2x, this predates the payment secret.
19:53 < BlueMatt[m]> in the meeting rusty noted that CLN randomizes the amount being sent somewhat so will, basically always, overpay (if it decided not to make an MPP payment)
19:53 < BlueMatt[m]> LDK will happily overpay by a hair and treat that hair as fee, assuming the path is still preferred even with the excess fee.
19:54 < dongcarl> What do I grep in the BOLTs w/re this overpayment requirement?
19:54 < BlueMatt[m]> IIUC all lightning implementations today allow overpaying, though joost noted that in theory a lightning node operator, with careful use of plugins, could reject such payments.
19:54 < BlueMatt[m]> maybe grep for 2x?
19:54 < rusty> dongcarl: BOLT 4:
19:54 < rusty> The writer:
19:54 < rusty> ...
19:54 < rusty>     - if the invoice specifies an `amount`:
19:54 < rusty>        - MUST set `total_msat` to at least that `amount`, and less  than or equal to twice `amount`.
19:55 < rusty> The reader:
19:55 < rusty> ...
19:55 < rusty>   - if the amount paid is more than twice the amount expected:
19:55 < rusty>     - SHOULD fail the HTLC.
19:55 < rusty>     - SHOULD return an `incorrect_or_unknown_payment_details` error.
19:55 < rusty>       - Note: this allows the origin node to reduce information leakage by altering the amount while not allowing for accidental gross overpayment.
19:55 < dongcarl> Nice, thanks!
19:56 < rusty> When core lightning is paying, we create a shadow route (i.e. pretend we're paying up to 3 hops beyond the target).  If it's MPP, this only causes us to increase CTLV, as amount is already randomly split.  But for non-MPP, we actually add the fees for those shadow hops.
19:56 < dongcarl> Cool privacy trick!
19:57 < BlueMatt[m]> yea, we do the same, but only for CLTV. we should probably do it for fees too, at least optionally.
19:57 < BlueMatt[m]> IIRC the bolts explicitly recommend this for CLTVs
19:57 < BlueMatt[m]> presumably because rusty added it 😂
19:57 < rusty> BOLT 7: "Recommendations for Routing"
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--- Log closed Tue Oct 25 00:00:58 2022