--- Log opened Wed Dec 14 00:00:45 2022
00:04 -!- andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:04 -!- andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined #lightning-dev
00:28 -!- Jackielove4u [uid43977@user/jackielove4u] has joined #lightning-dev
01:00 -!- riclas [~riclas@26.27.71.148.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lightning-dev
01:07 -!- riclas [~riclas@26.27.71.148.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
01:22 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:22 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lightning-dev
02:55 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@user/AaronvanW] has joined #lightning-dev
03:22 -!- andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:22 -!- andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined #lightning-dev
03:24 -!- riclas [~riclas@26.27.71.148.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lightning-dev
04:15 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@user/AaronvanW] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:18 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@user/AaronvanW] has joined #lightning-dev
04:22 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@user/AaronvanW] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
04:47 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@user/AaronvanW] has joined #lightning-dev
04:48 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:49 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lightning-dev
04:58 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Quit: = ""]
05:25 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@user/AaronvanW] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:32 -!- andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:32 -!- andrewtoth_ [~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth] has joined #lightning-dev
05:58 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@user/AaronvanW] has joined #lightning-dev
06:27 -!- jon_atack [~jonatack@user/jonatack] has joined #lightning-dev
06:27 -!- jonatack [~jonatack@user/jonatack] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
06:30 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@user/AaronvanW] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
06:53 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@user/AaronvanW] has joined #lightning-dev
07:04 -!- jonatack1 [~jonatack@user/jonatack] has joined #lightning-dev
07:06 -!- jon_atack [~jonatack@user/jonatack] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
09:12 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@user/AaronvanW] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
09:29 -!- _Sam-- [~sam@52.152.220.68] has joined #lightning-dev
10:23 < pinheadmz> in eltoo, is EXPR_SETTLE (the APOAS signature with G as pubkey) basically just commits to the outputs and the locktime?
10:23 < pinheadmz> but has a kind of "anyone can spend" vibe
10:31 < instagibbs> it's emulating CTV yes
10:37 < pinheadmz> i see but not just that, its effectively a covenant. its like anyone can spend, sure, but the outputs are determined
10:37 < instagibbs> the state of the channel is committed yes
10:43 -!- warmhug [~warmhug@gateway/tor-sasl/warmhug] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:44 -!- warmhug [~warmhug@gateway/tor-sasl/warmhug] has joined #lightning-dev
10:45 < instagibbs> to be clear this isn't "eltoo" this is my specific instantion of eltoo. There are other choices you could easily make
10:46 < instagibbs> adapter sig to replace it(needs some secp-zpk api work), or eat an extra RTT when updating
10:48 -!- _Sam-- [~sam@52.152.220.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
11:25 -!- jonatack1 [~jonatack@user/jonatack] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
12:05 < pinheadmz> since the Settlememt tx requires no extra witness data, does that mean "anyone" can construct and broadcast it? Theyd have to know the channel state, output addresses and values, anything else?
12:06 < instagibbs> channel state is all you need, since everything else is predetermined by update tx and deterministic output ordering 
12:13 < pinheadmz> is that any riskier than current ln-penalty protocol? in terms of "toxic waste" just being on your disk?
12:14 < instagibbs> Your node state is up to 2 channel states(one with full signatures, one where you might not have sig for), and those HTLCs. All other state can be discarded
12:17 < pinheadmz> hmmm im thinking like, current LN there's nothing on your disk that could be bad right? an attacker would need to sign something to broadcast an invalid state. What im wondering is with your scheme, it sounds like an attacker can close the channel just by stealing your channel state?
12:18 < instagibbs> they would need to steal an update transaction which can't be predicted and has sigs
12:47 < pinheadmz> regarding eltoo+penalties _aj_ am i correct that the penalty money does not come from the funding tx, but essentially must be paid by which ever participant broadcasts the old update TX? 
12:48 < pinheadmz> you could even agree on a penalty any number of times greater than channel capacity? could actually be BETTER than current ln penalty
13:23 -!- jonatack1 [~jonatack@user/jonatack] has joined #lightning-dev
13:34 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-132.cust.tzulo.com] has quit [Quit: kexkey]
13:50 -!- warmhug [~warmhug@gateway/tor-sasl/warmhug] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
13:51 -!- warmhug [~warmhug@gateway/tor-sasl/warmhug] has joined #lightning-dev
13:56 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #lightning-dev
13:59 -!- test__ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #lightning-dev
14:00 -!- _flood [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
14:03 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
16:46 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lightning-dev
18:23 -!- BlueMatt_ [~BlueMatt@ircb.bluematt.me] has joined #lightning-dev
18:27 -!- BlueMatt [~BlueMatt@ircb.bluematt.me] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
18:29 -!- BlueMatt_ is now known as BlueMatt
18:30 -!- riclas [~riclas@26.27.71.148.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
--- Log closed Thu Dec 15 00:00:45 2022