--- Day changed Sat Aug 05 2017 02:02 -!- Sentineo|mobile [~androirc@217.12.53.71] has joined #lnd 02:34 -!- Sentineo|mobile [~androirc@217.12.53.71] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:10 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jenocvyrjpsqfnlk] has joined #lnd 04:12 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-94.as13285.net] has joined #lnd 04:18 -!- aakselrod [~aakselrod@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/aakselrod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:16 -!- MaxSan [~one@91.214.169.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:30 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 05:31 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-180-140-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:34 -!- riclas [riclas@72.210.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lnd 06:26 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lnd 06:40 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-94.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:44 -!- mnkk___ [~mnk4@ip5f5ae92a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:44 -!- mnkk___ [~mnk4@ip5f5ae92a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #lnd 07:48 -!- mnkk___ [~mnk4@ip5f5ae92a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:48 -!- mnkk___ [~mnk4@ip5f5ae92a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #lnd 08:37 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-189.as13285.net] has joined #lnd 08:53 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-189.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:00 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-189.as13285.net] has joined #lnd 09:11 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-189.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:14 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-189.as13285.net] has joined #lnd 09:22 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-189.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:36 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-200.as13285.net] has joined #lnd 09:38 -!- http_GK1wmSU [~deep-book@212.83.139.210] has joined #lnd 09:40 -!- http_GK1wmSU [~deep-book@212.83.139.210] has left #lnd [] 09:42 -!- JackH_ [~laptop@host-80-43-141-200.as13285.net] has joined #lnd 09:45 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-200.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:56 -!- JackH_ [~laptop@host-80-43-141-200.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:56 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-200.as13285.net] has joined #lnd 12:11 -!- mnkk [~mnk4@dslb-188-102-052-151.188.102.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #lnd 12:15 -!- mnkk___ [~mnk4@ip5f5ae92a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:30 -!- Sentineo|mobile [~androirc@217.12.53.71] has joined #lnd 12:37 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lnd 13:21 -!- Sentineo|mobile [~androirc@217.12.53.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:22 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-200.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:29 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-200.as13285.net] has joined #lnd 13:33 -!- Sentineo|mobile [~androirc@217.12.53.71] has joined #lnd 13:37 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@095-129-169-166-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #lnd 14:25 -!- MaxSan [~one@91.214.169.69] has joined #lnd 14:39 <@roasbeef> http://api.lightning.community +++ http://dev.lightning.community/ 14:40 <@roasbeef> sacrificed my last goat to the DNS gods, but we dunnit 14:40 < betawaffle> needs more content! 14:40 < betawaffle> it all fits on my screen 14:41 <@roasbeef> which one? 14:41 <@roasbeef> click dem links boi 14:42 < betawaffle> dev. 14:42 < betawaffle> big whitespace at the bottom 14:44 < Emcy_> itshappening.jfif 14:44 < betawaffle> i can haz LN nao 14:46 -!- sh_smith [foobar@cpe-76-174-26-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47 -!- Sentineo|mobile [~androirc@217.12.53.71] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47 < Emcy_> gotta log into slack pff 14:47 <@roasbeef> irc4lyfe 14:48 < Emcy_> what is slack anyway. Discord for nerds instead of geeks 14:48 < betawaffle> Emcy_: it's for biz people 14:49 <@roasbeef> kek 14:49 -!- sh_smith [foobar@cpe-76-174-26-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lnd 14:49 < betawaffle> http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/112/566/business.jpg 14:49 < Emcy_> i had hoped tox groups would have obviated all those platforms by now alas 15:12 < JackH> is lnd working on bitcoin core yet? 15:13 <@roasbeef> JackH: the issue still open ;) 15:13 < JackH> dang :) 15:13 < JackH> wrap it up! 15:16 <@roasbeef> JackH: what if I told you....you don't need to be locally running a node to use lnd 15:19 < JackH> oh I never expected to have to be doing that 15:20 < JackH> but I am looking to run lnd together with core (api's on top) 15:20 < JackH> our company is already doing a number of things within payment processing, and lnd is the next step we are moving into (apis on top) 15:21 < JackH> but we are so used to running core and all our code is core related that we are highly anticipating an lnd core version 15:21 < betawaffle> definitely 15:22 < betawaffle> core is the most trusted anyway 15:33 -!- d33pb00k-GK1wmSU [~Pyatibrat@23.27.18.240] has joined #lnd 15:33 <@roasbeef> JackH: lnd using core's wallet, or just lnd using core as a chain source? 15:34 -!- d33pb00k-GK1wmSU [~Pyatibrat@23.27.18.240] has left #lnd [] 15:44 < JackH> chain source roasbeef 15:45 <@roasbeef> JackH: will be possibly once I finish up my light client BIP, and they implement it 15:45 <@roasbeef> well that's one way 15:45 <@roasbeef> for the other route, three interfaces need to be implemented for it: BlockChainIO, FilteredChainView, and ChainNotifier 15:46 < JackH> but when you create lightning channels you must be using the op_codes that are required for channels, such as op_csv 15:46 <@roasbeef> ok? 15:46 < JackH> so scripting your own channels I always assumed is easier to do via core (as the broadcast mechanism and chain state) 15:46 <@roasbeef> huh? no 15:47 <@roasbeef> lnd does all channel management, signing, scripts, etc internally 15:47 <@roasbeef> it just needs a souce of chain I/O 15:47 <@roasbeef> JackH: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/lnwallet/script_utils.go 15:48 <@roasbeef> all the interaction with the chain, and/or wallet are fully abstracted. it's how we were able to easily add neutrino as a chain source 15:48 < JackH> can you use zeromq as I/O for the chain then? 15:48 <@roasbeef> yes 15:48 <@roasbeef> idk how fully fledged the api is now though 15:48 <@roasbeef> with btcd's api, it's easy to say things like: "ping me once this outpoint gets spent" 15:49 <@roasbeef> using core's wallet would be an annoyance though, the api is pretty limited, eclair and c-lightning have had many painpoints 15:49 <@roasbeef> eventually they'll have an embedded wallet like lnd does 15:50 < JackH> makes sense what you are saying 15:50 < JackH> but I think many that will run lnd channels will also run bitcoind 15:50 <@roasbeef> mhmm 15:51 < JackH> deployment of channels will be complementary to start with, for payment processing companies such as bitpay 15:51 <@roasbeef> the neutrino path is the easiest way for that imo, would prob be less work to implement the gcs filters, than implement all those interfaces 15:51 <@roasbeef> sure 15:51 < JackH> we are planning to issue two API's ourselves, one based on on-chain and one on off-chain 15:51 <@roasbeef> bitcoin core can't be everything for everyone at the end of the day 15:51 <@roasbeef> I see 15:51 < JackH> yeah true 15:51 <@roasbeef> JackH: have you seen this? api.lightning.community 15:52 < JackH> I just saw it 10m ago 15:52 <@roasbeef> it's pwetty 15:52 < JackH> it makes quite a difference 15:52 <@roasbeef> what lang does your shop use primirly? 15:52 < JackH> scala 15:54 < JackH> but we are looking at your lnd version 15:55 < JackH> difficult to make a choice when things are not matured 15:59 <@roasbeef> well you'll be able to drive it still, as there're java gRPC clients 15:59 <@roasbeef> also the REST api 16:00 < JackH> yup those are very good 16:02 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:05 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #lnd 16:06 -!- MaxSan [~one@91.214.169.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:08 < JackH> is there any channel management API at this time? 16:08 < JackH> as in - managing channel balances vs opening/closing of channels based on balances 16:09 <@roasbeef> hmmm, you mean like automatic channel management? 16:09 <@roasbeef> there're calls to open/close, send, gen payreqs, query balance, list channels (in all diff states) 16:11 < JackH> ah nice, then we can automate this according to our requirements 16:11 <@roasbeef> JackH: what do you have in mind? 16:11 < JackH> its more the balances and established routes that we need to map, and then open/close based on available balances 16:12 <@roasbeef> something like: "Maintain up to 20 outgoing channes, with at most 1 BTC in them, using 40% of the available wallet funds"? 16:12 < JackH> yes but also managing the channel relationships 16:12 <@roasbeef> (i'm finishing code atm that'll let you specify policies like that scenario) 16:12 <@roasbeef> can you elaborate a bit more? 16:12 < betawaffle> roasbeef: i can't wait for trezor integration. 16:13 < JackH> so if a channel branch runs out of funds, we would either need to reload it (by connecting a new channel to it) or close it and reopen a new channel and establish the same relationships channels wise again 16:14 <@roasbeef> betawaffle: which kinda? vanilla (can sign when creating a channel), strawberry (can manually sign channel updates), or neopolitan (can auto sign channel updates, will never sign a commitment for a revoked state) 16:14 < betawaffle> vanilla 16:14 <@roasbeef> JackH: ahh I see, so auto-rebalancing? 16:14 <@roasbeef> yeh vanilla is on the roadmap 16:14 <@roasbeef> JackH: you can open/close in one step btw, not implemented yet though 16:14 < JackH> yup auto-rebalancing exactly roasbeef 16:15 < betawaffle> keeping my on-chain coins in there is the important bit for me 16:15 <@roasbeef> JackH: cfromknecht calls it a "clopen", also called splice in/out 16:15 <@roasbeef> mhmm 16:15 < JackH> how about channel discovery? is there some sort of crawler available roasbeef ? 16:15 < betawaffle> but obviously more functionality would be better too 16:15 <@roasbeef> JackH: discovery? as in to see what the graph loosk like? there's a describegraph call for that atm 16:16 <@roasbeef> with a mode to create an svg rendering using graphiz 16:16 < JackH> ok cool 16:16 < betawaffle> roasbeef: when is there going to be node discovery? 16:16 < JackH> and are the 3 main lnd projects compatible yet? 16:16 < betawaffle> like, it's a bit hard to find testnet nodes to connect to 16:16 <@roasbeef> JackH: almost 16:16 < betawaffle> the only one i know about is mabley's 16:17 <@roasbeef> betawaffle: well if you look at your channel graph, if a node has advertised their IP you can connect manually 16:17 <@roasbeef> but yeh there's a few routes for discovery we're investigating 16:17 < betawaffle> only once i know about a first node 16:17 <@roasbeef> atm DNS is on the table, but i'd also like additional avenues 16:17 < betawaffle> for a while i didn't know about *any* nodes 16:17 <@roasbeef> mhmm 16:18 <@roasbeef> you'll only really need it on startup, as after you get the graph, can manage conns based on that 16:18 < betawaffle> are there really only a few nodes on testnet? 16:18 <@roasbeef> betawaffle: were upwards of 50 I last checked 16:19 < betawaffle> is describegraph what i want? 16:19 <@roasbeef> but running diff versions of lnd at this point, so there are unconnected parts of the graph 16:19 <@roasbeef> yes 16:20 < betawaffle> 28 with addresses 16:20 < JackH> I hope you guys are compatible as I can imagine a number of people will be deploying eclair since they have the gui in place and is easy to run 16:20 < betawaffle> 89 total 16:21 <@roasbeef> JackH: we haz gui tooooo, which uses neutrino 16:22 <@roasbeef> will be dropping it soon 16:22 < JackH> heh 16:22 < JackH> get compatible ;) 16:23 <@roasbeef> fwiw lnd is actually the youngest LN node 16:23 <@roasbeef> with imo the most functionality 16:28 <@roasbeef> but the final thing I need to do for compat is: switch to using mSAT internally 16:28 <@roasbeef> the lncli will prob stay at sat when sending over channels, but convert to mSAT internally 16:29 <@roasbeef> imo makes sense for all rpc's to use the same denomination 16:30 < JackH> oh yeah I meant to ask you on channel limits as well 16:30 < JackH> are there going to be limits? I think I read in the BOLT specs you will limit it 16:30 < JackH> to allow for natural growth 16:30 <@roasbeef> lnd doesn't limit atm 16:30 <@roasbeef> but does in my current local branch 16:30 <@roasbeef> it's a soft-cap essentially 16:30 < JackH> but its node policy right? 16:31 <@roasbeef> well you can recompile any node to remove the limit 16:31 < JackH> alright 16:33 <@roasbeef> at current exchagne rate: max chan size is $1k, max htlc amount is $275 16:33 <@roasbeef> lol it was $40 when it was initially set 16:38 < JackH> lol 16:38 < JackH> is there a way to outsource channels to third party without control of the channel balance? 16:40 <@roasbeef> JackH: yep 16:40 <@roasbeef> well, what do you mean by that? 16:40 < JackH> say that I have a t-shirt shop online 16:40 <@roasbeef> you can outsource info to them to deliver justice if your channel peer attempts to breach the contract 16:41 < JackH> and I want to receive off-chain transactions 16:41 < JackH> can you then help me to receive off-chain without having access to my funds? 16:41 < JackH> but without too much involvement from my side on the tech portion 16:42 <@roasbeef> sounds like you want something like BitPay? 16:42 <@roasbeef> kek 16:42 <@roasbeef> but sure someone could write some merchant software that makes it easy to accept funds over LN 16:42 < betawaffle> what are mSATs? 16:42 < JackH> I guess I am imaging that you give me a "light" deamon node of sort, and you can call it up to manage it, but without access to the funds 16:43 <@roasbeef> betawaffle: milli-satoshis 16:43 < betawaffle> so... less than a satoshi? 16:43 <@roasbeef> 1/1000 of a satoshi 16:43 < betawaffle> nice 16:43 < JackH> yeah bitpay, but that would be an API 16:43 <@roasbeef> yeh 16:43 < JackH> which is a more complex integration 16:44 <@roasbeef> JackH: so in your scenario you _can_ run software? if so, why not just manage directly? 16:44 < JackH> hmm maybe bad example 16:45 < JackH> nevermind, you are right this is not lnd issue 17:14 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-80-43-141-200.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41 -!- riclas [riclas@72.210.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [] 17:43 -!- mnkk [~mnk4@dslb-188-102-052-151.188.102.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44 -!- mnkk___ [~mnk4@ip5f5ae92a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #lnd 17:57 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jenocvyrjpsqfnlk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:49 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:54 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #lnd 20:32 -!- juscamarena_ [~justin@47.148.176.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:43 -!- juscamarena_ [~justin@47.148.176.74] has joined #lnd 22:27 -!- juscamarena_ [~justin@47.148.176.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:17 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #lnd 23:29 < molz> roasbeef, this is an offtopic question but im not sure who to ask right now: to reindex a bitcoin wallet, can we do it offline? 23:58 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jljnrpkjbuevdyhq] has joined #lnd