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08:27 -!- aakselrod [~aakselrod@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/aakselrod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:47 < sturles> E.g. Bitcoin and Litecoin, I guess? 08:54 -!- teasherm_ [~teasherm@wifi-175-047.seh.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lnd 08:57 -!- teasherm [~teasherm@wifi-175-225.seh.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:21 < molz> it would be a clusterfuck? 09:22 < molz> there's lnd for litecoin and lnd for bitcoin, each chain has its own ledger, no need to have just one lnd for multichains 09:23 < pigeons> molz: from the mailing list and some discussions, it seems that and things like cross chain channels actually is in the future, but of course just making it work well with one chain will be the priority for a while 09:26 < molz> cross chain like atomic swap? it can happen now like what charlie demonstrated between btc and ltc, doesn't need LN 09:28 < pigeons> routing payment messages at a chain-agnostic level 09:28 < pigeons> anyway, future 09:33 < molz> ya, in 20 yrs, if bitcoin can survive all the attacks 09:43 -!- teasher__ [~teasherm@wifi-175-225.seh.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lnd 09:43 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kfcchdsrzijnkufz] has joined #lnd 09:45 -!- teasherm_ [~teasherm@wifi-175-047.seh.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:48 -!- teasherm [~teasherm@wifi-175-047.seh.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lnd 09:51 -!- teasher__ [~teasherm@wifi-175-225.seh.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:44 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:51 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lnd 11:06 -!- whythat [~whythat@host-176-36-181-130.la.net.ua] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9] 11:07 -!- jhgjgjhg [2e1ea7e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.30.167.232] has joined #lnd 11:10 -!- aakselrod [~aakselrod@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/aakselrod] has joined #lnd 11:17 -!- teasherm [~teasherm@wifi-175-047.seh.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:18 -!- teasherm [~teasherm@wifi-175-047.seh.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lnd 11:21 -!- teasherm [~teasherm@wifi-175-047.seh.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22 -!- teasherm [~teasherm@wifi-175-047.seh.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lnd 11:57 -!- cdecker [~cdecker@mail.snyke.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 12:19 -!- teasherm [~teasherm@wifi-175-047.seh.ox.ac.uk] has quit [] 12:55 -!- aakselrod [~aakselrod@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/aakselrod] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:02 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #lnd 13:07 -!- aakselrod [~aakselrod@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/aakselrod] has joined #lnd 13:47 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@unaffiliated/alina-malina] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49 -!- capa66 [~capa66@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/capa66] has joined #lnd 13:49 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has joined #lnd 14:17 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:20 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has joined #lnd 14:42 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lnd 14:46 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lnd 15:01 < snadge> Is ethereum doing something similar to this? 15:03 < snadge> I'm kind of wondering whether fast settlement (more spendable crypto) / atomic swaps will obviate the need for off chain settlement 15:04 < snadge> and whether segregated witness is a good or a bad idea in light of off chain settlement 15:07 < molz> snadge, Segwit makes LN feasible 15:08 -!- MaxSan [~one@213.152.161.30] has joined #lnd 15:10 < snadge> OK so that's really about unjamming the blockchain.. Kind of like needing a bigger pipe if more people are going to use it 15:11 < snadge> or just going from 7tx/sec or whatever it is at the moment.. to hopefully something more than that 15:13 < snadge> when I get back from holidays I'm literally going to be putting a 1ru server into a data centre, and running a few block chains, a private exchange and web wallet 15:15 < snadge> full disk encryption, tamper alert on the case, secure facility with limited access etc 15:18 < snadge> I'm excited to potentially trial LN 15:30 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:38 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has joined #lnd 15:53 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:57 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has joined #lnd 16:04 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 16:20 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lnd 16:22 < afdudley> molz: I don't see a clusterfuck there at all. seems like a reasonable feature. could you explain why you think it's such a bad idea? 16:23 < molz> afdudley, why do you think it's a good idea? 16:23 < afdudley> cross chain atomic swaps. 16:24 < afdudley> simplifies it for me if i'm already running full-nodes on one machine. 16:26 < molz> huh? 16:26 < afdudley> hm? 16:28 < afdudley> obviously, it's possible i'm getting a bit ahead of myself, but if I want to offer routes across multiple networks, do I want to run multiple lnd nodes to support that use-case? 16:29 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29 < molz> you don't need LN to do atomic swaps, you can do it without LN now 16:30 < afdudley> I need LN to route those swaps... isn't that what LN is for? 16:30 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has joined #lnd 16:31 < afdudley> Have I been confused about what LN is for this whole time?! 16:31 < molz> no 16:32 < molz> you don't need LN to route those swaps 16:32 < afdudley> So what would I use LN for? 16:32 < molz> please, do some reading 16:32 < afdudley> I've done quite a bit. :D 16:33 < afdudley> but you seem to be taking a rather extreme position that doesn't match anything i've "read" 16:34 < afdudley> I'm honestly curious what you think LN will primarily be used. 16:34 < afdudley> not HTLCs, but the routing of them... 16:36 < afdudley> Sorry molz, i'm clearly wasting your time. but when you figure out what i'm talking about, don't hit yourself in the forehead too hard :D 16:36 < molz> oh i don't, trust me 16:37 < molz> if you've been hanging out here for months but haven't done any reading or testing, you're wasting your time 16:37 < afdudley> I've done a lot worse than that! 16:37 < afdudley> I went to France! 16:37 < afdudley> SF! 16:38 < afdudley> I just don't understand how you can be so arrogant. 16:38 < afdudley> Since you clearly don't know who I am. 16:39 < afdudley> If I met you someplace and offended you this greatly i'm sorry. If I'm a random string of letters on the internet, what are you so upset about? 16:39 < molz> what? 16:40 < afdudley> huh? 16:40 < afdudley> why would I want to run two lnd instances as one entity, if I could just run one? 16:40 < afdudley> (let's try this again....) 16:41 -!- jhgjgjhg [2e1ea7e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.30.167.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:42 < molz> you can run nothing 16:42 < deusexbeer> molz: what's your solution for optimal swaps? if not LN? 16:44 < molz> deusexbeer, what's a swap? maybe if you can explain to me so i can know what you mean "a swap" first 16:44 < afdudley> LOL. 16:45 < deusexbeer> molz: swap different assets on different chains. and do that cheap. 16:45 < deusexbeer> if these chains support LN 16:45 < afdudley> such that one side can't walk away with the assets without completing the swap. 16:46 < molz> deusexbeer, you can do that now, without LN, again, go ask charlie lee, he's done it 16:46 < afdudley> molz: do you see any issue with doing that generally? 16:46 < molz> what issue? 16:46 < afdudley> as opposed to between btc and ltc? 16:47 < afdudley> why woud someone use lightning at all if they can just open up a payment channel directly between whomever they are transacting with? 16:48 < molz> when why haven't they done it? 16:48 < afdudley> huh? 16:50 < deusexbeer> and how to swap it lightning fast without lightning? 16:50 < molz> deusexbeer, go talk to charlie lee, he was looking to do an atomic swap with someone the other day 16:51 < molz> i was going to do it with him but i was too busy 16:53 < afdudley> I just have to assume you're trolling at this point :) 16:53 < deusexbeer> ahh, usual internet conversation... 16:54 < afdudley> I assumed that a long time ago, since using LN HTLCs etc, is a fairly easy way to standardize atomic swaps... I figure that use-case has been beaten to death here. 16:56 < jimpo> molz: This is explicitly called out as a use case by Elizabeth Stark https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=11m3s&v=3PcR4HWJnkY 16:56 < pigeons> yes and its why the current interest in atomic swaps, as a precursor for using them via lightning. anyway lightning devs on the mailing list said they were pushing back cross-chain stuff till after a stable bitcoin lignting 16:56 < afdudley> and for people what want to do decentralized exchange, LN across networks could work well as a liquidity pool. 16:57 < pigeons> i think that list is implementation agnostic and more protocol coordination 16:57 < afdudley> Thanks, pigeons. 16:57 < pigeons> maybe try #lightning-dev 16:57 < afdudley> I'll just figure out how to isolate my nodes via config files for the moment, but it's a bit annoying :D 16:58 < pigeons> but already you see them start to abstract some things out in the specs for future use that way 17:05 < deusexbeer> dreaming about multi asset LN :-) 17:07 < molz> jimpo, right, it's the plan, but we still have many things to do yet, and i'm saying atomic swaps can be done now without LN 17:08 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 5 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdqkE 17:10 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master 5b6ab9a Conner Fromknecht: breacharbiter: filters outputs for dust outputs before sweeping... 17:10 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master 4c19320 Conner Fromknecht: breacharbiter_test: updated test vectors for new retInfo struct 17:10 -github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master 223f77d Conner Fromknecht: lnwallet/channel: filter commitment outputs if dust 17:11 < pigeons> yes but you've been able to do them for 6 years or so in some form, and yeah this form since CLTV but liquidity, privacy, etc issues make it not so useful 17:14 < molz> here, atomic swap with coblee: https://twitter.com/decredproject/status/912741532830068738 17:18 -!- Ylbam 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-github-lnd:#lnd- lnd/master 2178237 Olaoluwa Osuntokun: lnwallet: properly use delayKey for htlc-timeout tx in newHtlcResolution... 19:21 <@roasbeef> afdudley: one work item that needs to be carried out by one of our peeps, then we 19:21 <@roasbeef> we'll get reaaaaal swappy 19:32 < lndbot> Cool Thanks :) 19:41 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lnd 20:50 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has joined #lnd 21:24 -github-neutrino:#lnd- [neutrino] aakselrod opened pull request #15: Rescan race fix (master...rescan-race-fix) https://git.io/vdqnF 21:31 -!- Netsplit over, joins: gaf_ 21:32 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:33 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has joined #lnd 21:37 -!- Netsplit over, joins: dakk, MaxSan 21:41 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:47 -!- lightningbot1 [~lightning@138.197.213.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47 -!- lightningbot2 [~lightning@138.197.213.35] has joined #lnd 21:52 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@37.157.223.81] has quit [Changing host] 21:52 -!- Alina-malina [~Alina-mal@unaffiliated/alina-malina] has joined #lnd 22:08 -!- spinza [~spin@196.212.164.26] has joined #lnd 22:10 -!- lightningbot2 [~lightning@138.197.213.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10 -!- lightningbot3 [~lightning@138.197.213.35] has joined #lnd 22:15 -github-lnd:#lnd- [lnd] braydonf opened pull request #355: Specifiy need for witness outputs for funding channels (master...witfund) https://git.io/vdqCV 23:21 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:23 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lnd 23:33 -!- sdfgsdfg 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