--- Day changed Mon Feb 04 2019 00:23 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lnd 00:50 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lnd 01:25 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Quit: bye, freenode] 01:31 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 01:39 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lnd 01:49 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:07 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@77.70.119.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@77.70.119.51] has joined #lnd 02:19 -!- jpe_ [~jp@92.116.89.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:23 -!- unicron [~unicron@unaffiliated/unicron] has joined #lnd 02:30 -!- pioklo [~Pioklo@118-40.echostar.pl] has joined #lnd 02:47 -!- Beast [~quassel@220.117.120.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:50 -!- Beast [~quassel@220.117.120.61] has joined #lnd 03:14 -!- jpe [~jp@fallback.gsmk.de] has joined #lnd 03:38 -!- sh_smith [~sh_smith@cpe-76-174-26-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lnd 03:49 -!- jungly [~quassel@host97-200-static.8-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lnd 04:17 -!- aerth [~aerth@gateway/tor-sasl/aerth] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:18 -!- aerth [~aerth@gateway/tor-sasl/aerth] has joined #lnd 04:34 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 04:37 -!- Simon_ [672ed505@gateway/web/freenode/ip.103.46.213.5] has joined #lnd 04:44 -!- rabidus [~rabidus@85-23-137-40.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:45 -!- rabidus [~rabidus@85-23-137-40.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lnd 04:48 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20 -!- kopli [a7cac915@gateway/web/freenode/ip.167.202.201.21] has joined #lnd 05:20 < kopli> Are there any plans to make it possible to receive LN payments without having to set up an on-chain transaction yourself? 05:27 < rafalcpp> kopli: afair yes 05:30 < kopli> Or to put it differently... I would like to be able to create a channel where I can receive without having to put anything in first. So now, I can only receive with Bitcoin Lightning Wallet if I first open a channel for X satoshi. Then I need to spend X satoshi... and only THEN will I be able to receive X satoshi. 05:31 < kopli> Those are two scenarios, but still the second scenario is still good. Opening an on chain channel for 0 satoshi (excl. mining fee) where I would be able to receive any amount? 05:32 < kopli> rafalcpp: Do you have a link to documentation / code about this? 05:34 < molz> kopli, if you're a popular merchant selling cool stuff, you can set up a node and receive LN payments, but other than that, no, you don't get to receive for doing nothing 05:35 -!- yoink [~yoink@unaffiliated/yoink] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:38 < CubicEarth> Is there a good high-level, yet still technical overview of the LN protocol that is up to date? 05:40 < ysangkok> what about rusty's articles? 05:41 < ysangkok> they are nice because they progressively make the protocol more complicated and explain the motivation 05:42 < kopli> > you don't get to receive for doing nothing 05:43 < kopli> You don't do nothing... you give an address where the payment can go. 05:44 < molz> you give them an invoice 05:50 -!- yoink [~yoink@unaffiliated/yoink] has joined #lnd 05:51 < kopli> Can I give an invoice without having a payment channel first? 05:53 < kopli> One use case is also the Lightning Roulette. If I win, I would like to be able to win and receive 10,000,000 satoshi .. even if I don't have a channel that size. 05:57 < kopli> If I work for a company that wants to pay my salary every month.. they could set up a channel with $2000 which I would use to pay services and people through LN. Then at the end of the month when the channel is almost empty, I would like to reuse it to receive my next salary. But that can't happen if I didn't spend everything yet. You could argue that 1) The initial channel should be bigger for the entire year-salary so there is a buffer 05:57 < molz> kopli, how do you create an invoice without having a channel? 05:57 < kopli> But the company probably doesn't have a buffer for that. 05:58 < kopli> By using a Bitcoin address I presume 05:59 < molz> huh? 05:59 < kopli> That would be a different type of invoice I suppose. One where you also request the creation of a channel to you. 05:59 < molz> how do you create an invoice by using a bitcoin address? 06:00 < kopli> Why are you asking me? I'm here to ask that to developers 06:00 < molz> please, there's plenty of documents, go read them 06:00 < kopli> Where? 06:00 < molz> look at the title of this channel 06:00 < kopli> I mean which one are best? 06:01 < kopli> Are those about the plans about receiving payments through LN without having to put in collateral first? 06:02 < molz> no, you're probably in a wrong channel now 06:03 < kopli> What do you mean? 06:04 < kopli> I learnt about LN basics and that you need collateral to create channels, but I also got the impression that other use cases were being researched, where you can request people to setup a channel with you and get paid that way. 06:06 -!- kopli [a7cac915@gateway/web/freenode/ip.167.202.201.21] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:11 < CubicEarth> ysangkok: Those are great articles. I just wasn't sure if or how much they might be out-of-date at this point 06:18 -!- aerth [~aerth@gateway/tor-sasl/aerth] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:21 -!- aerth [~aerth@gateway/tor-sasl/aerth] has joined #lnd 06:29 < molz> CubicEarth, i think the devs are going to have their bi-weekly meeting tomorrow on #lightning-dev, you might want to ask them then? 06:29 < CubicEarth> thanks molz 06:30 < molz> cross post from rusty in that channel: I've created an issue to serve as tomorrow's adenda: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/issues/566 06:30 < molz> Please tag issues you want to discuss, in case people want to prepare ;) 06:30 < CubicEarth> And for IRC channels, I have #lnd, #c-lightning and #lightning-dev ... I am missing any other primary lightning channel (IRC channel that is) 06:31 < CubicEarth> ? 06:37 < molz> not that i know of lol 06:46 < ysangkok> CubicEarth, why not just ask your question on the bitcoin stackexchange? I am not sure it is appropriate use of dev resources since many people will be able to tell you how that particular article is outdated 06:48 < molz> i really doubt most people on bitcoin SE know what lightning is or how it works, we've done a mountain of amounts of answering questions on LND slack 06:51 < molz> basically, to me, the white paper is very outdated, but the RFC protocol is what everyone should go to re: how lightning currently works 07:03 < e4xit> molz: thanks for the clarification. 07:06 < molz> oh, np :) 07:13 < Veggen> molz: I guess that in theory, you could give an invoice without having a payment channel. 07:14 < molz> i meant a node 07:14 < Veggen> and lightning-reoulette could ask "I see you're not reachable, want me to deduct 5k satoshi and create a channel for you?" 07:15 < molz> sure you can create invoices with 0 channels but you won't get paid 07:15 < Veggen> oh, node. that's different :) 07:17 -!- QuanticPotato [bed2387d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.190.210.56.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:17 < molz> and how do you play lightningroulette without having a node and channel? 08:15 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 08:25 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03 -!- jungly [~quassel@host97-200-static.8-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has joined #lnd 09:24 -!- qxt [~qxt@unaffiliated/qxt] has joined #lnd 09:29 < qxt> Have not heard much about AMP as of late. Anything happening on that front? 09:30 < lndbot> Some multipath payment stuff is slated for Lightning RFC 1.1 09:33 < qxt> Was looking at REC 1.1. Some neat stuff there. Think you had a link on Twitter to the full doc a while back. 09:37 < molz> what's REC? 09:50 < notmike> Isn't that like when you go long 100x and then the price tanks? 09:55 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 10:05 -!- Orion3k [~Orion3k@24-176-200-142.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lnd 10:28 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01 < buZz> lol 11:02 < molz> hey i thought rusty said the meeting would be tomorrow, meaning "Tuesday" tomorrow.. but he just started the meeting .. lol 11:05 <@roasbeef> it's tues in australia lol 11:05 < molz> yea haha 11:05 < molz> 6am tuesday in sydney :D 11:53 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@77.70.119.51] has quit [Quit: https://www.Quanto.ga/ -- Immutable state trading system in Clojure] 12:17 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:44 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:45 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@77.70.119.51] has joined #lnd 13:04 -!- manantial [~tecnecio@unaffiliated/manantial] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lnd 14:24 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:25 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lnd 14:35 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:36 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lnd 14:37 -!- Orion3k [~Orion3k@24-176-200-142.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:55 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:22 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:23 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lnd 15:43 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Quit: = ""] 15:44 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #lnd 16:08 -!- Styil [Styil@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/styil] has joined #lnd 16:12 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has joined #lnd 16:21 -!- yoink [~yoink@unaffiliated/yoink] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 16:48 -!- pioklo [~Pioklo@118-40.echostar.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:44 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53 <@roasbeef> test 17:53 <@roasbeef> test3 17:53 <@roasbeef> test5 17:53 <@roasbeef> test7 17:53 <@roasbeef> test11 17:54 <@roasbeef> test primed 17:54 -!- libertyprime [~libertypr@66.87.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lnd 18:33 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lnd 18:46 < lndbot> lol 18:55 -!- Empact [~textual@2607:fb90:9c2d:b26d:29c1:21a7:daba:aacc] has joined #lnd 18:55 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has joined #lnd 19:04 -!- Empact [~textual@2607:fb90:9c2d:b26d:29c1:21a7:daba:aacc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06 -!- Empact [~textual@38.104.224.174] has joined #lnd 19:23 -!- Empact [~textual@38.104.224.174] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 19:26 -!- Empact [~textual@38.104.224.174] has joined #lnd 19:27 -!- Empact [~textual@38.104.224.174] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31 -!- Empact [~textual@38.104.224.174] has joined #lnd 19:50 -!- Empact [~textual@38.104.224.174] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20:03 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:11 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #lnd 20:38 < unicron> anybody in here know about CJDNS and MANTLE? 20:47 -!- libertyprime [~libertypr@66.87.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:44 -!- qxxt [~qxt@2a03:1b20:5:f011:31::5e] has joined #lnd 21:45 <@roasbeef> unicron: go on.... 21:46 -!- qxt [~qxt@unaffiliated/qxt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:23 -!- dave_uy [~dave_uy@108.61.193.26] has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.github.io] 22:24 -!- dave_uy [~dave_uy@108.61.193.26] has joined #lnd 22:34 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lnd 22:50 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:57 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lnd 23:19 -!- manantial [~tecnecio@92.58.58.54] has joined #lnd 23:19 -!- manantial [~tecnecio@92.58.58.54] has quit [Changing host] 23:19 -!- manantial [~tecnecio@unaffiliated/manantial] has joined #lnd 23:48 -!- t0mix [~t0mix@78-141-123-99.dynamic.orange.sk] has joined #lnd 23:51 -!- manantial [~tecnecio@unaffiliated/manantial] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51 -!- tecnecio_ [~tecnecio@92.58.58.54] has joined #lnd