--- Day changed Thu Jun 06 2019 00:00 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-24-34-137-83.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:16 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-73-114-190-176.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lnd 00:17 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 00:19 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@92.116.74.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@2001:16b8:48b3:a200:4502:e9de:9c1f:3145] has joined #lnd 00:22 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 00:24 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lnd 00:34 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:35 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 00:38 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 00:41 -!- douglas_ [~douglas@c-73-114-190-176.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lnd 00:41 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-73-114-190-176.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 00:52 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 00:56 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 00:57 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 00:58 -!- booyah_ [~bb@193.25.1.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has joined #lnd 01:00 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 01:01 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:05 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 01:31 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 01:32 -!- spoke0_ [~spoke0@92.116.74.212] has joined #lnd 01:32 -!- pioklo [Pioklo@ip-91.246.70.194.skyware.pl] has joined #lnd 01:35 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:35 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@2001:16b8:48b3:a200:4502:e9de:9c1f:3145] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:48 -!- spoke0_ [~spoke0@92.116.74.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lnd 01:53 < lndbot> Is probing for channel balances a concern? I know pre-pay probing opaquely makes use of this. But if somebody were specifically trying to only probe in order to get channel balances. Is that a privacy concern? 01:54 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:57 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:58 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 02:11 -!- MaxSan [~four@213.152.161.20] has joined #lnd 02:22 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #lnd 02:43 <@roasbeef> yeah it is, but there's measures against that 02:43 <@roasbeef> let setting a lower max_htlc field 02:43 <@roasbeef> or starting to selectively drop certain payments that may be identified as probes 02:43 <@roasbeef> eventually it may be the case that it costs satoshis to even extend an HTLC at all 02:43 <@roasbeef> so then tehre'a n additional cost 02:54 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:00 -!- sh_smith [~sh_smith@cpe-76-174-26-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@82-132-231-5.dab.02.net] has joined #lnd 03:09 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 03:09 < lndbot> Ah gotcha 03:10 < lndbot> currently only negative thing for the prober is their funds are locked up 03:10 < lndbot> But they can reasonably guess the bandwidth of one side 03:14 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@82-132-231-5.dab.02.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@46.114.39.154] has joined #lnd 03:21 <@roasbeef> depends on the heuristics they use 03:21 <@roasbeef> but then there's also a number of countermeasures that clients can start to use 03:22 <@roasbeef> so it starts a war with both sides attempting to counter attack based on the prior round 03:22 < lndbot> Yeah didn’t think about max HTLC that’s a good point 03:22 <@roasbeef> also other things like the max htlc in flight setting, reservse, total amount outstanding, etc 03:22 <@roasbeef> those are all things that are only local link state and not communicated to the wider network 03:22 <@roasbeef> so it starts to become more fuzzy 03:22 < lndbot> What is total amount outstanding? 03:23 <@roasbeef> and then also clients may eventually start to just send cover traffic back to themselves in loops, kinda like loopix 03:23 <@roasbeef> so the total amount of satoshis that can be in limbo in a channel 03:23 <@roasbeef> so I can say "the sum of active HTLCs in a channel can't be above n satoshis" 03:23 <@roasbeef> and then we both respect that 03:23 < lndbot> Oh right 03:26 < lndbot> Yeah it is fuzzy with HTLC limits 03:26 < lndbot> Max HTLC could potentially be guessed, don’t know about reserve 03:34 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@46.114.39.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:38 < lndbot> And the fee is always changing too so it’s a bit iffy 03:51 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lnd 03:55 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:03 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 04:03 -!- siom__ [~siom@195.12.48.205] has joined #lnd 04:07 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:08 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:08 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 04:12 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 04:18 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 04:19 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has joined #lnd 04:19 -!- EagleTM [~EagleTM@unaffiliated/eagletm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22 -!- 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the connection] 05:00 -!- qprime [~irc@gateway/tor-sasl/qprime] has joined #lnd 05:02 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lnd 05:03 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lnd 05:04 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@x2f7fbde.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lnd 05:16 -!- rafalcpp_ [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:16 -!- rafalcpp_ [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 05:16 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:18 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@103.125.94.175] has joined #lnd 05:21 -!- aielima [~aielima@gateway/tor-sasl/aielima] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has joined #lnd 05:24 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lnd 05:46 < lndbot> For invoices with the amount field set to 0, isn't it possible for an intermediate node to do the following: • assume the next hop is the final hop, send an UpdateAddHTLC with a lower amount than specified in the source's forwarding instructions • If this fails with UnknownPaymentHash, assume that this is either not a "donation" invoice or that this node is not the final hop • If this doesn't fail, they can claim the incoming htlc at a substanti 05:46 < lndbot> failure case, just send the original UpdateAddHTLC received from the previous hop and call it a day 05:59 -!- kim0 [uid105149@ubuntu/member/kim0] has joined #lnd 06:00 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lnd 06:11 -!- hrofu_ is now known as hrofu 06:24 -!- bralyclow [~bralyclow@193.36.117.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:24 -!- bralyclow [~bralyclow@193.36.117.238] has joined #lnd 06:33 -!- booyah [~bb@193.25.1.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:33 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Remote host closed the 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[~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:44 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has joined #lnd 07:45 -!- bralyclow [bralyclow@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/bralyclow] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:52 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has joined #lnd 07:56 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:57 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has joined #lnd 08:01 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@46.114.38.58] has joined #lnd 08:05 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@46.114.38.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has joined #lnd 08:15 -!- gethh [uid264798@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cdxgpcxqzoqkjrny] has joined #lnd 08:36 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@hst-227-49.splius.lt] has joined #lnd 08:38 -!- kim0 [uid105149@ubuntu/member/kim0] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:39 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:40 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has joined #lnd 08:44 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49 -!- checker_ [62c651dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.198.81.221] has joined #lnd 08:51 <@roasbeef> eugene: yeh..... 08:54 < bitconner> eugene, fortunately they won't be necessary after solidifying spontaneous payments, which aren't vulnerable to that 08:54 < lndbot> ah I've gotta read about those then, have the tab open on my computer 08:55 < lndbot> something about the payment hash in the onion blob iirc 08:58 -!- checker_ [62c651dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.198.81.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:02 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@92.116.74.212] has joined #lnd 09:13 < lndbot> Yeah the preimage is included in the final hop 09:13 -!- laptop500 [~laptop@host86-128-184-5.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lnd 09:20 < Talkless> Hi roasbeef, early today? Have you seen my question yesterday about gossip optimizations? 09:22 < molz> haha "early today?" :D 09:23 < Talkless> molz: I only remember seeing roasbeef active in much later hours, in my time zone that is. 09:23 < Talkless> it's "only" 19:23 in my place 09:23 < molz> Talkless, how about.. maybe... possibly... he's in your timezone now? :D 09:23 < Talkless> WHOA 09:23 < Talkless> CAN'T BE! 09:23 < Talkless> :)) 09:23 < molz> LOL 09:24 < Talkless> How cool it would be to have cypherpunks in YOUR timezone..? Amazing. 09:25 -!- bralyclow01 [~bralyclow@76-202-84-204.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has joined #lnd 09:26 -!- bralyclow [~bralyclow@76-202-84-204.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 09:26 -!- bralyclow [~bralyclow@76-202-84-204.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27 < molz> lolol 09:27 -!- bralyclow [~bralyclow@76-202-84-204.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 09:27 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@103.125.94.175] has joined #lnd 09:32 -!- bralyclow [~bralyclow@76-202-84-204.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:44 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46 < lndbot> Since users can overpay invoices up to 2x (although I don't see any logic specifically limiting it to 2x, just above the invoice amt - https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/invoices/invoiceregistry.go#L546), I think the same sort of vulnerability exists if a sender overpays the invoice. The last hop can attempt to underpay. 09:51 -!- peleion [~jeff@76.73.184.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53 < lndbot> I think only c-lightning will overpay on purpose for privacy reasons 09:54 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@94.247.2.107] has joined #lnd 09:54 < lndbot> Yeah I wasnt aware of real life cases of that happening 09:56 < lndbot> How does slightly overpaying protect your privacy? 09:56 < lndbot> It was mentioned in the bolts but Idt there was an explanation 09:59 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@94.247.2.107] has quit [Quit: Sleep mode] 09:59 < lndbot> @eugene https://git.io/vxCOk 10:02 -!- scoop [~scoop@205.178.77.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04 -!- bralyclow [~bralyclow@76-202-84-204.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 10:05 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@94.247.2.107] has joined #lnd 10:05 < lndbot> Ah I see, cool 10:08 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@103.125.94.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18 -!- rafalcpp_ [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 10:18 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:18 -!- rafalcpp [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:20 -!- AbuseOfNotation [~AbuseOfNo@217.151.98.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:27 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #lnd 10:30 < lndbot> say you pay yalls a lot, it's the same amount everytime to create a post if it's a bit above you couldn't be as sure dunno 10:31 < lndbot> You mean if there's a malicious node in the route? 10:31 < lndbot> Oh nv 10:31 < lndbot> nvm 10:32 < lndbot> Also the destination (alex) wouldn't be as able to guess where the payments came from i guess 10:32 < lndbot> Maybe he's secretly running a data mining operation o.o 10:34 -!- scoop [~scoop@4.34.68.225] has joined #lnd 10:35 -!- scoop [~scoop@4.34.68.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:37 -!- bralyclow 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[2d4dfc38@gateway/web/freenode/ip.45.77.252.56] has joined #lnd 13:47 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has joined #lnd 13:52 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has joined #lnd 13:57 -!- bralyclow [~bralyclow@76-202-84-204.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 14:01 -!- hrofu_ [~hrofu@unaffiliated/hrofu] has joined #lnd 14:02 -!- hrofu [~hrofu@unaffiliated/hrofu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:04 -!- spoke0_ [~spoke0@144.76.166.209] has joined #lnd 14:07 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@92.116.74.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:12 -!- spoke0_ [~spoke0@144.76.166.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42 -!- ddustin [~ddustin@unaffiliated/ddustin] has joined #lnd 14:54 -!- rafalcpp_ [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:54 -!- rafalcpp_ [~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl] has joined #lnd 15:13 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 15:13 -!- jogco [2d4dfc38@gateway/web/freenode/ip.45.77.252.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:17 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:23 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@46.114.38.58] has joined #lnd 15:32 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-190.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:38 < ctrlbreak> Well shit... looks like Eclair wallet closed one of my main channels to my LND node... 15:41 < molz> bad Eclair, bad! :D 15:44 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@46.114.38.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46 < ctrlbreak> Dang. I didn't have logging on either :-S 15:50 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@77.70.119.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:50 -!- spoke0 [~spoke0@46.114.38.58] has joined #lnd 15:55 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 15:58 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lnd 15:59 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@77.70.119.51] has joined #lnd 16:00 -!- thomasan_ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:03 -!- thomasa__ [~thomasand@108-91-143-73.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:14 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has joined #lnd 16:16 -!- pioklo [Pioklo@ip-91.246.70.194.skyware.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:18 -!- x000 [~x000@unaffiliated/x000] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19 -!- x000 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