--- Log opened Fri Sep 24 00:00:16 2021
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00:24 < lnd-bot> [lnd] guggero opened pull request #5785: mod+lncli: remove deprecated package [skip ci] (master...deprecated-ssh-terminal) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/5785
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06:36 < lnd-bot> [lnd] sipsorcery closed pull request #5585: Minor improvements to C# grpc doc (master...cs-grpc-doc) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/5585
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11:57 < lnd-bot> [lnd] naveensrinivasan opened pull request #5789: mod: Upgraded xz library to FIX the CVE-2021-29482 (master...naveen/feat/fix-CVE-2021-29482) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/5789
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15:09 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef closed pull request #5778: cmd/lncli: add new delpayments command line option (master...del-failed-payments-cmd) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/5778
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15:31 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef merged pull request #5784: Fix incorrect link in java gRPC docs (master...patch-1) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/5784
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15:31 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/compare/e686a70b96e2...9094fcddfaa1
15:31 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 7a5467d benthecarman: Fix incorrect link in java gRPC docs [skip ci]
15:31 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 9094fcd Olaoluwa Osuntokun: Merge pull request #5784 from benthecarman/patch-1
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15:32 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef merged pull request #5785: mod+lncli: remove deprecated package [skip ci] (master...deprecated-ssh-terminal) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/5785
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15:32 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/compare/9094fcddfaa1...e62bd65c7ad4
15:32 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 765d043 Oliver Gugger: mod+lncli: remove deprecated package [skip ci]
15:32 < lnd-bot> lnd/master e62bd65 Olaoluwa Osuntokun: Merge pull request #5785 from guggero/deprecated-ssh-terminal
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15:52 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef merged pull request #4364: multi: clean up forwarding state from closed channels (master...clean-forward-states) https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/4364
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15:53 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 15 commits to master: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/compare/e62bd65c7ad4...fbb1d159e089
15:53 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 0fff613 yyforyongyu: channeldb: add docs for fwd pkg bucket
15:53 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 3d50edf yyforyongyu: channeldb: add method to wipe all forwarding packages
15:53 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 91b75f8 yyforyongyu: contractcourt: add docs for state transition paths
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16:09 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef pushed tag kvdb/v1.1.0: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/compare/kvdb/v1.1.0
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16:12 < lnd-bot> [lnd] Roasbeef pushed 1 commit to master: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/compare/fbb1d159e089...3800cd943314
16:12 < lnd-bot> lnd/master 3800cd9 Olaoluwa Osuntokun: build: update kvdb to kvdb/v1.1.0 [skip ci]
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17:57 < Cherry> Hi, is there a way to convert the lnd seed to BIP39?
17:57 < roasbeef> Cherry: no, since bip39 derives the seed by _hashing_ the words 
17:58 < roasbeef> it _is_ possible to take a bip39 seed and "insert it" into lnd though 
17:59 < Cherry> wow ... so then I wana use now c-lightning instant of lnd, i have to close all my channels and move my balance to a new btc addr? ... 
17:59 < roasbeef> that's the safest way 
17:59 < roasbeef> you wouldn't be able to port over your channles in any case 
18:01 < Cherry> the thing is, I did read that c-lightning is much better to handle a remote bitcoind rpc with multiple connected lightning nodes. I plan to run 2-3 lightning nodes and I don't want run 3 bitcoind processes for that.
18:01 < roasbeef> you could start a new CL node, then like route over coins to it from teh lnd node, s.t you have a minimal amt there, then starts to shut down the other one 
18:01 < Cherry> and now i tested c-lightning and its seems to be very fast and stable 
18:02 < roasbeef> Cherry: if you modify the zmq high water mark on bitcoind, then it's safer to run w/ multiple lnd nodes if you wish 
18:02 < roasbeef> ofc you can also make them neutrino nodes if you wanted to as well, then use that single bitcoind node for them 
18:04 < roasbeef> in theory it's possible to port channels between nodes, but no one has written such a tool yet, woul dprob be a pain to maintain fwiw 
18:04 < Cherry> what would be the stablest solution? I am new to the ln stuff. I tested first just umbrel on a VM, but that is so unstable and slow that I decide to do it myself better
18:05 < roasbeef> what's your set up like? you want to run multiple lightning nodes on teh same machine? 
18:05 < roasbeef> umbrel is for more ppl that aren't as familar with the command-line, etc -- they make it really easy to get set up 
18:06 < Cherry> yes I wana run 2 nodes minimum, one for myself and one for my gaming community. My new setup without umbrel is now a docker container with bitcoind running and then a VM there I run c-lightning with RTL + LNBits.
18:06 < Cherry> *debian vm
18:07 < Cherry> command-line is no problem for me, I just tested umbrel for the usecase and its sad that its run so badly. 
18:08 < Cherry> the new setup works atm fine and very fast
18:09 < roasbeef> umbrel was just slow or something else?
18:10 < Cherry> umbrel made a ton of problems - some processes just crashes or its very slow. idk why exactly but it was kind of unstable in my setup, idk if its run on a rpi better
18:11 < Cherry> I have here a strong unraid server and prefer to run such things with KVM or docker
18:11 < roasbeef> hmm weird, seems to run pretty well for most ppl, but I guess they're usually running on a SBC like you say 
18:12 < Cherry> in the end I decide to run my own processes now. that is not a big deal.
18:12 < Cherry> but I dont know now what is better to use, lnd or c-lightning
18:12 < Cherry> in the end it should be fast and stable
18:12 < roasbeef> depends on what you wanna do I guess, and if you want to script on top of the node, or just mainly let it sit there and run  
18:13 < Cherry> and maybe support the LNURL applications (but I think this is a another layer?)
18:13 < roasbeef> CL prob has a lower memory footprint w/ a small amount of chans since there's no GC or w/e, but I woudl wager once you start having hundreds of chans it consumes more memory, since it uses a distinct process per channel/peer 
18:13 < roasbeef> LNURL is usally a wallet thing fwiw 
18:13 < roasbeef> or you mean like the server to respond to queries or w/e?
18:14 < roasbeef> re scripting/RPC, the lnd API is here: https://api.lightning.community/#lnd-grpc-api-reference 
18:14 < Cherry> I script on top. I wrote a whole reward system for my gaming community now. My goal is to distribute sats to a wide range of ppl - I want that they get in touch with BTC.
18:14 < roasbeef> you can use either REST or gRPC  
18:14 < roasbeef> cool, have you seen the zebedee/mintgox stuff? they do stuff w/ LN+gaming 
18:15 < roasbeef> for CL, iirc RTL maintains a plugin that adds a REST server to it, not sure the level of functionality there tho 
18:15 < roasbeef> otherwise you'd need to use the direct unix socket stuff
18:16 < Cherry> CL + RTL + LNBits runs here without problems that I got done. My next step was now to import my umbrel wallet to CL and thats why I am here :D
18:16 < roasbeef> ah ok, yeh you've just gotta close out n sweep 
18:17 < roasbeef> hope you'll come back to lnd one day ;) 
18:18 < Cherry> mhhh ok. but if I just wana keep my channels now and try LND again, I have to compile bitcoind by myself with a higher "zmq high water mark" ?
18:19 < Cherry> I mean in the end, I dont care about LND or CL, it have to be stable, fast and I wana just run one bitcoind process in my network. If I run later more nodes, I can't store everytime over 600gb for a node.
18:19 < roasbeef> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/zmq.md#usage
18:20 < roasbeef> the flag is `-zmqpubhashtxhwm=`
18:20 < roasbeef> but as I mentioned above, you could also just have multiple lnd nodes using the neutrino backend (light client), so then it just speaks to bitcoind using the p2p network instead of rpc 
18:21 < Cherry> ZeroMQ is something like MQTT? 
18:21 < Cherry> its read like that. sry for my bad english
18:21 < Cherry> but I did read that neutrino is experimental?
18:23 < roasbeef> yeh it's kinda similar to that 
18:23 < roasbeef> basically pub/sub
18:24 < Cherry> so the topology is:    BITCOIND  <--   neutrino  -- > [multiple LND nodes] ?
18:25 < roasbeef> right side shuold be like "bitcoin p2p network"
18:25 < roasbeef> neutrino is a part of lnd effectively 
18:27 < Cherry> so with neutrino I don't run any bitcoind node anymore? mhhh ... idk
18:27 < Cherry> or is it better to setup with a electrum server?  oh damn that is so a huge topic overall xD
18:28 < Cherry> and besides I try to learn how to implement the cardano wallet Nami into a website. I have to much to do, damn
18:28 < roasbeef> well you'd want to have it connect to your bitcoind, but it can also connect to the rest of the p2p network if you wanted it to 
18:29 < Cherry> ah ok. but a electrum server is a possible solution here too, am I right?
18:29 < roasbeef> I think only eclair supports electrum as a backend 
18:30 < Cherry> ah ok. 
18:32 < Cherry> so would you personally run this best with neutrino now? I have read that the new Tor v3 causes problems with neutrino? I wanted to use Tor for the main communication.
18:33 < roasbeef> ah ok yeh we haven't implemented tor v3 yet for neutrino 
18:34 < Cherry> ok, so now I have to either run 2 bitcoind for now or adjust the ZeroMQ setting.
18:34 < roasbeef> yeah
18:36 < Cherry> yes i have to run the whole thing through tor. The rules here in the EU are very strict. If I now offer a lnhub service, If I now offer a lnhub service, I strictly need to have a bank license.
18:38 < Cherry> thank you for your help! I think about whether I now switch back to LND. Although if I use CL for now, I can at least always switch to LND.
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--- Log closed Sat Sep 25 00:00:17 2021