--- Day changed Tue Apr 08 2008
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00:40 < kanzure> welcome
00:40 < kanzure> at the moment we're all sleeping, so feel free to idle arond
00:40 < kanzure> *around
00:40 < kanzure> and the /topic should have some good links to read through
00:40 < greeezy> Exactly what i was doing right now :)
00:41 < kanzure> update to self-replication page with link to http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=514462&cid=22996516 for review - I wrote this maybe 30 minutes ago and might be a better intro
01:06 < kanzure> huh
01:06 < kanzure> on a completely irrelevant note
01:07 < kanzure> oh, nevermind
01:08 < Aulere> ?
01:09 < kanzure> Aulere: I just saw an argument for genetic testing for embryos, but then I realized I don't care.
01:09 < Aulere> ah.
01:09 < kanzure> here's how it went: suppose you are one of N embryos, all of which have an equal chance of getting randomly picked
01:09 < kanzure> but then suppose you do genetics tests and then you are given a greater chance
01:09 < kanzure> the argument then goes on to show that it does not change the odds of implantation occuring
01:09 < kanzure> but rather the odds of greater well-being "for you" (being one of the embryos)
01:10 < kanzure> now, I think the author means to say that
01:10 < kanzure> "for you" is in the sense of ... once the embryo is already selected
01:10 < kanzure> suggesting that the parents get to play a role in saying who's who
01:10 < kanzure> but on the other hand, I don't really care
01:10 < kanzure> just implant
01:10 < Aulere> heh
01:10 < kanzure> or, I mean to say that I don't care if you use genetic testing or evaluation, do whatever you want
01:13 < Aulere> did the article specify which dispositions were being genetically tested for?
01:14 < Aulere> I would care, depending on what was being screened out. 
01:16 < kanzure> well
01:16 < kanzure> it was an email
01:16 < Aulere> ah
01:16 < kanzure> sent
01:16 < Aulere> oh cool
01:18 < Aulere> looks interesting - I'll read it tomorrow.
01:19 < Aulere> this is just a study break ;-)  
01:21 < kanzure> sure
01:21 < kanzure> don't bother reading much into it
01:22 < kanzure> ethics is #politics
01:22 < kanzure> this is #kickass
01:22 < Aulere> hehe
01:22 < Aulere> k
01:26 < kanzure> http://www.openwetware.org/forum/ <-- on my radar
01:27 < kanzure> http://igem.org/forum
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13:33 < fenn> nano is trendy now? http://blog.craftzine.com/archive/2007/06/nanotechnology_and_fashion_ant.html
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17:44 < kanzure> Hey.
17:54 [Users #hplusroadmap]
17:54 [ drazak] [ Enki-2] [ epitron] [ fenn] [ kanzure] [ krebs] 
17:54 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 6 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 6 normal]
18:14 < kanzure> I can't remember my Sourceforge password. Hm.
19:20 < kanzure> "intentional child crippling is wrong" (in the sense of, say, giving the child autism)
19:20 < kanzure> any thoughts?
19:43 < Enki-2> kanzure: it's not crippling to give them autism
19:43 < kanzure> Enki-2: that's my opinion as well
19:43 < kanzure> Enki-2: but on the other hand, what's "crippling"?
19:43 < Enki-2> kanzure: it carries the same risk of negatives as giving them a stronger heart or immunity to aids
19:44 < kanzure> the problem is that this person tied this into a child abuse argument
19:44 < kanzure> giving them autism, he argues, is child abuse
19:44 < Enki-2> kanzure: that's kind of ridiculous
19:44 < kanzure> but who cares if it is child 'abuse'? 
19:44 < Enki-2> at least, to someone who has autism
19:44 < Enki-2> i'm sure NTs consider teaching evolution in schools to be child abuse, from time to time
19:45 < Enki-2> depending on current trends
19:45 < kanzure> I do not like to be beaten, I don't like child abuse, but we must admit that it does occur no matter how many times you make a law against it
19:45 < kanzure> so what does it matter if you call it 'wrong' ?
19:45 < kanzure> are you going to go around genetically testing people?
19:45 < kanzure> and taking away the children that have indicators of autism in their genes?
19:45 < kanzure> sounds rather extreme
19:50 < kanzure> Do you see the difficulty? 
19:51 < kanzure> is it still child abuse if you have modified their brains? Is it child abuse if you do anything they don't want? There are too many boundaries here. Although I'm not sure how much it can possibly matter.
20:02 < epitron> i think it depends on society
20:02 < epitron> if you give a kid autism, then throw him into a culture of normal people, he'll be alienated
20:02 < epitron> that's pretty shitty
20:03 < epitron> you'd then have to modify his "desire for social acceptance"
20:03 < epitron> which is programmed into us
20:03 < epitron> and make him into a little robot
20:03 < epitron> at which point, you just have a mutilated human that's a pseudo-robot
20:03 < epitron> :)
20:07 < kanzure> >   And again, I think a lot of these disagreements have to do with
20:07 < kanzure> > boundary perception. Personally, I am terrified by the idea that
20:07 < kanzure> > someone might decide at some point that I am "suboptimal", and
20:07 < kanzure> > determine that this gives them the right to invade my brain or body
20:07 < kanzure> > for my own perceived good.
20:07 < kanzure> (Anne Corwin)
20:09 < kanzure> Hm. This is interesting: 
20:09 < kanzure> >   But I do NOT see the fact that in reality choices sometimes need to
20:09 < kanzure> > be made for others as some kind of "permission slip" to say, "Well,
20:09 < kanzure> > we invade people's boundaries in Case X and everything works out
20:09 < kanzure> > better in the end, so therefore, invading boundaries isn't a big
20:09 < kanzure> > deal".
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20:15 < kanzure> Hello greeezy.
20:28 < kanzure> http://www.hansonr.org/mediawiki-1.4.7/index.php/Main_Page
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20:42 < kanzure> Hello greez.
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21:06 < kanzure> "His imaginative reaction accounting method is to conventional statistical approaches based on species concentrations, as second quantization is to first quantization in quantum theory. I cannot vouch for his algebra at this time, but his basic method is worthy of positive acknowledgment and encouragement." (JPC, Vol 81, No. 25, 2340, 1977)
21:14 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Henry_Markram_computational_neurosci_imitation_project
21:19 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Societal_engineering_knowledge_database#2008-04-08:_Thoughts_on_the_structure
23:18 < kanzure> Hm. A bloke is trying to get me interested in molecular quantum chemistry [for quantum computers].