--- Day changed Sun Apr 20 2008
00:25 < kanzure> perl?
00:27 < fenn> trying to figure out why this is forbidden http://fennetic.net/git/gitweb.cgi
00:34 < kanzure> it's hidden in /etc/gitweb.conf
00:35 < kanzure> oh, well
00:35 < kanzure> that's just an apache error really
00:35 < kanzure> but once you get that solved, gitweb.cgi will have another problem
00:35 < fenn> oh, now its changed
00:35 < kanzure> unless you're using /var/cache/git or something
00:36 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=wiki.git;a=history;f=sandbox.mdwn
00:36 < kanzure> sucks
00:36 < fenn> should say  403 Forbidden - No projects found 
00:36 < kanzure> right
00:36 < kanzure> but I fixed that
00:36 < kanzure> just make sure the vars in gitweb.cgi and /etc/gitweb.conf match each other for the project paths etc.
00:37 < fenn> arrr stupid gitweb.cgi has all those variables in the script too, so i changed them thinking they actually got used
00:37 < kanzure> I thought they do.
00:38 < fenn> apparently projectroot gets overwritten by /etc/gitweb.conf
00:39 < fenn> i think your gitweb css file isnt being found
00:39 < kanzure> I don't know where anything related to gitweb is located except /etc/gitweb.conf and /usr/lib/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi
00:42 < fenn> is there /var/www/git-logo.png
00:42 < kanzure> I think I have to go rip out my ikiwiki repos and then start from fresh on that end
00:42 < kanzure> hm
00:42 < kanzure> yep
00:42 < kanzure> that's not my www-root though :)
00:43 < kanzure> fixed
00:43 < fenn> looks same
00:44 < fenn> its looking in http://heybryan.org/cgi-bin/git-logo.png
00:45 < kanzure> yeah :(
00:46 < kanzure> and why is wikiwc/.git/ more populated than /home/bbishop/.git/wiki.git/ ?
00:49 < fenn> because ikiwiki hasnt committed its stuff?
00:49 < kanzure> how do you do that?
00:49 < kanzure> and why is ikiwiki.cgi not working ?
00:49 < fenn> there's a function in ikiwiki.setup? that needs uncommented (commit hook i think)
00:49 < fenn> i havent gotten that far yet
00:52 < kanzure> post-update, methinks
00:56 < fenn> gcc-wrapped setuid perl files are the stupidest hack ever
00:57 < kanzure> what are they?
00:57 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=wiki.git;a=history;f=index.mdwn
00:57 < kanzure> neat
00:58 < kanzure> too bad editing from the web still doesn't work
00:58 < fenn> its a setuid executable that will let you do root stuff from perl without the 'inherent insecurity' of a perl text file
00:58 < fenn> i dont really get it, honestly
01:00 < fenn> your rewrite rule is a little off.. heybryan.org/wiki fails but heybryan.org/wiki/ works
01:01 < fenn> 'Error: "do" parameter missing' is the problem?
01:02 < kanzure> it's not a rewrite rule, it's actually that /wiki doesn't exist
01:02 < kanzure> 'access without authorization denied' is given for my cgi script, I had to check with lynx
01:02 < kanzure> but Opera doesn't tell me anything except give a blank page
01:03 < kanzure> fenn: nah, it just goes blank when I hit 'edit' for a page.
01:05 < kanzure> it used to give me a login form
01:05 < kanzure> and I even registered
01:05 < kanzure> (also tried from another browser with separate cookie session, no login form - still a blank page - guess I could have known this from my lynx usage)
01:08 < fenn> yeah i see that.
01:14 < fenn> hmm. updates to the main repo dont percolate down to ikiwiki
01:15 < fenn> have to do run ikiwiki for it to update static html
01:16 < kanzure> it looks like they are using a lock system
01:16 < kanzure> where they lock the repo from being updated
01:16 < kanzure> but this repo isn't the main repo
01:17 < fenn> why do you say they lock the repo?
01:17 < kanzure> because when I go to ikiwiki.cgi?do=edit&page=index.mdwm in the browser, two files are in generated in wikiwc/.ikiwiki/ -- sessiondb.lck, and lockfile
01:18 < kanzure> it's not locking the repo really
01:18 < kanzure> it's more of a lock on the wiki's editing capacities, I think
01:18 < kanzure> but whatever happening in my installation is probably due to some confusion as to where the wiki repo is
01:19 < kanzure> so if the static html isn't updated when updating the main git repo, then how's that useful?
01:19 < kanzure> oh, didn't you say it is possible to attach function calls to git?
01:19 < kanzure> so that when a commit is made, it calls some handler function you assign?
01:19 < fenn> sigh.. ~/autogenix/.ikiwiki/userdb has plaintext password
01:19 < kanzure> yes.
01:19 < fenn> er. wikiwc not autogenix in your case
01:20 < kanzure> this seems like a giant hacky system
01:20 < kanzure> although it has a good web presence - the documentation is great, but deceptive
01:21 < fenn> function calls are in wikiwc/.git/hooks
01:21 < kanzure> I would much rather use a flat file wiki
01:21 < kanzure> hm
01:21 < kanzure> well, then shouldn't that do it?
01:21 < fenn> yeah i dont really see what ikiwiki does with git, besides run a script after you edit the page
01:21 < fenn> (if that)
01:22 < fenn> i'm getting confused with three different copies of the data and two unfamiliar programs
01:23 < kanzure> try  git://atonie.org/git-wiki.git
01:23 < fenn> um, do what, clone it?
01:24 < kanzure> author: http://atonie.org/2008/02/git-wiki
01:24 < kanzure> it's supposedly a 200-line wiki with git as the direct database
01:24 < kanzure> and an active frontend or something
01:27 < kanzure> blah
01:32 < kanzure> wikipedia says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikiwiki 'n the simplest case it can function as an off-line static web site generator, but it can use cgi to function as a normal web-interfaced wiki as well. ' 
01:32 < kanzure> normal web-interfaced wiki?
01:34 < fenn> i think that means 'generate dynamic content'
01:34 < kanzure> if that was true then it would mean reading directly from the main repo, no?
01:34 < kanzure> and I don't see any indication that this is possible
01:41 < fenn> maybe you're supposed to add 'ikiwiki --refresh' to wikiwc/.git/hooks/post-commit?
01:49 < kanzure> didn't do much
01:49 < kanzure> don't know
01:49 < kanzure> I sent Joey an email.
01:53 < fenn>  if the prefix_directives option is not enabled. For backward compatibility with existing wikis, this option currently defaults to off,0~
01:53 < fenn> thats why the recentchanges page is all screwed up
01:58 < kanzure> great, but why is the edit-wiki page not working
01:58 < kanzure> does it work for you?
01:58 < fenn> yes
01:59 < fenn> anything in the logs? /var/log/apache2/error.log
02:01 < kanzure> no
02:01 < kanzure> okay, I'll just do a fresh install of ikiwiki
02:01 < kanzure> so tell me, if you edit a page through http on ikiwiki
02:01 < kanzure> and if you have the hook in the config file
02:01 < kanzure> then is the main repo updated?
02:01 < fenn> not sure, i think i screwed something up by moving the main repo around
02:02 < kanzure> and, conversely, if you clone the main repo, update a file, and then push the whole thing back to the main one, is the wiki immediately updated?
02:02 < fenn> its looking in /pub/git though i cant find that string anywhere
02:02 < kanzure> I thought that's in the /etc/webgit.conf
02:02 < kanzure> gitweb or whatever
02:02 < fenn> well, it was, but i changed that, but i also did have a repo at /pub/git
02:03 < kanzure> where the hell are the config options for these things
02:03 < fenn> so i should also probably start over
02:03 < kanzure> it's very under the hood ..
02:03 < fenn> yeah
02:03 < kanzure> what we need is a program that can encapsulate another program that we choose
02:03 < kanzure> and then show what files have been updated on the hard drive
02:03 < kanzure> so that we can track everything.
02:03 < kanzure> surely this exists?
02:03 < kanzure> a mini virtualization environment
02:06 < kanzure> the blog on my server is http://blosxom.com/ - it's a cgi script that reads the flat file blog posts from a directory, so on each call to the cgi script it assembles and parses and dispalys the text files, and it's managed by rsync at the moment (primitive versioning)
02:07 < kanzure> it does seem to have a wiki-like plugin
02:07 < kanzure> http://www.blosxom.com/plugins/edit/wikieditish.htm
02:08 < kanzure> so that might be a worthwhile alternative. 
02:08 < kanzure> i'll do a fresh install of ikiwiki tomorrow, once I clear out the git repos, and see what else I can do there, and wait for a Joey email, but other than that, this sucks - I could have made more progress coding my own wiki from scratch tonight, it seems.
02:10 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."]
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12:02 < kanzure> http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?WikiAsSourceControlRepository (I was using meatball wiki / usemod back in 2005)
12:03 < kanzure> http://www.jspwiki.org/Wiki.jsp?page=WikiRPCInterface2
12:03 < kanzure> http://wrcs.sourceforge.net/ 'The WRCS project aims to provide a simple command-line oriented client for the Wiki sites that support WikiRPC 2 protocol. It's interface is built after popular versioning systems like RCS, CVS or Subversion.'
12:45 < kanzure> one of my serch results for 'ikiwiki' took me to Daniel Burrows' instance of ikiwiki -- he happens to be the guy that programmed the apt frontend .. he's claiming it's 38,000 lines.
12:46 < kanzure> btw, following your notes for installing ikiwiki, I git to ikiwiki --setup at which point it fails with "fatal: Not a git repository"
12:48 < kanzure> hurray! I got the lab spot
14:42 -!- fenn [n=pz@adsl-75-60-174-180.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:42 -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: http://heybryan.org/ http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Self-replication | krebs is now servicing the channel. try !help
14:42 -!- Topic set by krebs [] [Mon Apr  7 03:08:21 2008]
14:42 [Users #hplusroadmap]
14:42 [ drazak] [ fenn] [ kanzure] [ krebs] 
14:42 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 4 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 4 normal]
14:42 < fenn> > Does an update via the http wiki interface immediately 
14:42 < fenn> propagate to the main repo? Does an update to the main repo immediately 
14:42 < fenn> propogate to the wiki?
14:42 < fenn> yes, and yes
14:42 -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008
14:42 < fenn> >partial recompilations of the wiki?
14:42 < fenn> yes
14:42 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 44 secs
14:44 < fenn> my only gripes are with the fact that files are named <name>.mdwn but in the wiki if you go to <name> it redirects to <name>/index.html which doesn't work for files that arent .mdwn (wiki syntax)
14:51 < kanzure> why does it need files to be named .mdwn
14:52 < fenn> dunno, i think its stupid
14:52 < kanzure> so I most definitely have the lab spot
14:52 < kanzure> the professor wants to know when I can start
14:52 < kanzure> I graduate May 30, so I can possibly start on the 31st
14:52 < fenn> heh
14:52 < kanzure> but what's lab etiquette like ? 
14:53 < kanzure> is the professor the pointy-haired boss?
14:53 < fenn> put stuff back where you got it
14:53 < fenn> in my experience the prof was always out of sight
14:53 < fenn> had to make an appointment to talk to him :P
14:53 < fenn> everyone runs their lab differently
14:59 < kanzure> understandably.
15:01 < kanzure> basically he said "When do you plan to start showing up?" so it looks like he's not going to make the plans for me
15:01 < kanzure> but I don't know how much room he's giving me, really
15:04 < fenn> a bench, or half a bench
15:11 < fenn> is lion kimbro some kind of time-nut?
15:11 < kanzure> don't know
15:11 < kanzure> he stopped his notebooks after four months
15:11 < fenn> just ran across this totally randomly "I'd like to be able to ask the server what time it thinks it is. -- LionKimbro"
15:11 < kanzure> in his intro he says "THIS WILL COMPLETELY IMMOBILIZE YOU" and he's right.
15:12 < kanzure> (it's happened to me)
15:12 < fenn> keeping a notebook, or reading his?
15:12 < kanzure> keeping/managing
15:13 < kanzure> you get to the point where you have all of these thousands of pages of notes and documents
15:13 < kanzure> and to refactor them would be *hell*
15:13 < kanzure> so you become very, very specific in your thoughts and so on, and try to make the best generalization and approaches that you can so that you don't fuck yourself over
15:13 < fenn> i only write down good ideas and things that i've already done
15:13 < kanzure> but it's just so much overhead ...
15:13 < kanzure> well, you're not in prison for 8 to 10 hours a day
15:14 < kanzure> ;)
15:14 < kanzure> speaking of which, I have a Rube Goldberg machine to go construct
15:14 < kanzure> bbl
15:14 < fenn> fun
15:14 < kanzure> btw, we might have to use your ikiwiki installation since my server is being a bitch with git
15:15 < kanzure> I was following your shell script when it started to complain that git/skdb.git/ wasn't a repository
15:15 < fenn> were you in git/skdb.git/ ?
15:15 < fenn> it seems the current dir matters sometimes
15:16 < fenn> (also i'm not entirely 100% certain my script is correct)
15:16 < kanzure> hm
15:17 < fenn> oh, ikiwiki --setup shouldnt care what dir you're in
15:17 < kanzure> so before that you do the makerepo command
15:21 < kanzure> ikiwiki-makerepo ... fatal: remote origin already exists
15:22 < fenn> aha i see
15:22 < kanzure> ?
15:23 < fenn> arent supposed to make the empty dir ~/git/skdb.git/
15:23 < kanzure> right, I deleted it and then did the makerepo command
15:24 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/skdb/
15:25 < kanzure> eh?
15:27 < fenn> it works for me, following my instructions (except the empty dir part)
15:28 < fenn> wonder if i'm not doing the makerepo part wrong though
15:29 < fenn> i mean, i'm still in cvs-think wondering where the central repository is
15:29 < kanzure> I followed your instructions specifically.
15:29 < fenn> where are you at now?
15:31 < kanzure> make-repo and then ikiwiki --setup
15:32 < kanzure> the ikiwiki --setup call fails because git claims it's not a repository
15:32 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/2008/04/ <--- a good way to kill your browser. My blog was reuploaded on the 11th, so all of the posts appear on one page. But it's good stuff.
15:33 < fenn> does make-repo say something like this at the end: Directory /var/www/ikiwiki.skdb.wc/ is now a clone of git repository /home/fenn/git/skdb.git  ?
15:35 < kanzure> hm, there's a good Freitas interview in there with Merkle ... 
15:35 < kanzure> uh
15:35 < kanzure> no
15:35 < kanzure> Importing /var/www/ikiwiki.skdb.wc/ into git
15:35 < kanzure> Initialized empty shared Git repo in ~/.git/skdb.git/
15:35 < kanzure> Reinitializing existing Git repo in .git/
15:35 < kanzure> # On branch master
15:35 < kanzure> nothing to commit (working directory clean)
15:36 < fenn> hmm
15:36 < fenn> the # On branch master is different
15:36 < kanzure> Freitas is doing comp-chem simulations
15:36 < kanzure> 'So, we went ahead and analyzed it. And it’s 1630 tooltip/workpiece structures, 65 reaction sequences, 328 reaction steps, 354 unique pathological side reactions. '
15:36 < kanzure> heh
15:37 < kanzure> Here are the tools. There are nine tools. Starting from the upper left, we have the hydrogen abstraction tool with the ethynyl radical. This is the tool that has been studied so extensively in the literature, and we are pretty comfortable with it. The next one is the hydrogen donation tool. You’ll notice it has a yellow atom. That yellow atom is a germanium. The germanium-hydrogen bond is a fairly weak bond, so this tool can be 
15:37 < kanzure> Then we have the germylene tool. That’s sort of the flipside. That’s got a carbon at the bridgehead position and a germanium atom, so now you can use this tool to bring up a germanium to a structure. You have to go through more antics in order to pull back and make sure that your germanium actually sticks with the surface and not with the tool, but you can make that happen.
15:37 < kanzure> permalink http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/2008/04/11#diamond_mechanosynthesis
15:37  * fenn cringes
15:37 < fenn> this is all to make diamond?
15:38 < kanzure> better permalink http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/sci/nano#diamond_mechanosynthesis
15:38 < kanzure> hm
15:38 < kanzure> no
15:39 < kanzure> this is their diamondoid mechanosynthesis approach to molecular nanotechnology
15:39 < fenn> you can do scp -p if you want to keep the file modification time correct
15:39 < kanzure> their recently accepted paper “A minimal toolset for diamond mechanosynthesis” to be published in JCTN (Journal of Computational and Theoretical Nanoscience). The talk included a description of nine molecular tools and all reaction pathways involved in their synthesis from raw materials. This took the co-authors three years to finish, and they view it as the critical next step in developing molecular nanotechnology for atomica
15:39 < kanzure> ah
15:39 < kanzure> unfortunately it's because I pulled them down from the server
15:39 < fenn> oh
15:39 < kanzure> and have since overwrote them
15:39 < kanzure> so.
15:40 < kanzure> video of the talk - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=362294862840163667&hl=en
15:40 < kanzure> but the transcript is better
15:41  * kanzure is away doing school work. so painful.
15:41 < fenn> i think if you add a file to your empty wiki and then do ikiwiki-makerepo it should commit something
16:13 < fenn> you can clone my repo with git-clone http://fennetic.net/git/autogenix.git
16:15 < kanzure> but where do I add the file?
16:16 < fenn> /var/www/ikiwiki.skdb.wc/
16:17 < kanzure> ikiwiki --setup still fails because it's "not a git repository"
16:17 < fenn> whats the command line you're using?
16:17 < fenn> er, actually i guess i need to see the ikiwiki.setup file
16:18 < kanzure> bash
16:18 < kanzure> okay, so
16:19 < kanzure> theoretically, if I delete ~/.git/, if I delete /var/www/skdb/ and /var/www/ikiwiki.skdb.wc/ and start from scratch, it should work, yes?
16:20 < kanzure> # git-clone http://fennetic.net/git/autogenix.git ---> http transport not supported, rebuild Git with curl support
16:20 < kanzure> wtf
16:20 < fenn> wah
16:20 < kanzure> this is ridiculous
16:20 < kanzure> what's the point of etch?
16:21 < fenn> ok, might as well upgrade to lenny
16:21 < fenn> i cant see it being more painful
16:22 < kanzure> hrm
16:22 < kanzure> wget http://fennetic.net/git/autogenix.git --> index.html ... looks like an Index Of directory output
16:22 < fenn> yep its just a symlink to ~/git
16:22 < fenn> and i added gitweb.cgi 
16:23 < drazak> (git is hopeless, use svn)
16:23 < fenn> harrumph
16:24 < fenn> all progress depends on the unreasonable man
16:26 < fenn> hot pink rice krispy treats.. i should be ashamed
16:36 < fenn> do they ever explain how to generate/regenerate the ethynyl radical once you've plucked off a hydrogen?
16:40 < kanzure> http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/005150.html posted a comment 
16:44 < fenn> i dont get the $0 figure.. nothing's ever $0
16:44 < fenn> it might be $1
16:44 < fenn> or you might offload the cost somewhere else to the point where accounting costs more than the thing you're giving away
16:45 < fenn> but never $0
16:45 < fenn> and anyway, like you said yourself 'its more a government petition than a research project'
16:47 < fenn> so, the cost hasnt "already dropped to zero"
16:48 < kanzure> the true cost is the bootstrapping
16:49 < kanzure> once you have an organism that can produce the chemicals for you, just scoop 'em up, separate them, etc. etc.
16:49 < fenn> "Expect the resulting kids to be smarter, healthier, with different personalities (how exactly?) and far better looking." what a fucking idiot journalist
16:50 < fenn> these are almost entirely environmental factors
16:51 < fenn> kanzure: the cost of growing that organism, scooping it up, separating it, etc etc is a real cost, it's not imaginary
16:51 < fenn> if you're busy doing that you cant do something else at the same time
16:51 < fenn> this is why we pay farmers to grow food, even though it just puts itself together
16:53 < kanzure> sorry, I refuse to assume that reality depends on money
16:53 < kanzure> http://www.whereismyeyeball.com/2d/starwars.html <-- steampunk starwars
16:53 < fenn> yeah saw that
16:53 < kanzure> Massive Solar-Orbiting Electro-Mechanical Analytic Engine, Mark 6 
16:53 < kanzure> This enormous Imperial space station, the size of a small moon or asteroid, is in fact an immense analytic engine, a device capable of making millions of calculations every day. Inside is kilometer after kilometer of tubes and wheels, cranks and gears, all spinning and clacking, spitting out an endless series of numbers for the Imperials scientists to decipher.
16:53 < kanzure> heh
16:54 < kanzure> Although the Empire has half a dozen such devices in operation throughout the galaxy, this version is unique. While the others spend their days crunching statistical algorithms or calculating flight models, the Mark 6 station (under the personal watch of Lord Vader) is dedicated to experiments with Arcane Mathematics, the mathematical study of the Force. They hope to discover a unified Force theory, allowing them to fuse the power
16:54 < fenn> http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/steamstarwars1.jpg
16:59 < kanzure> I am very, very good at finding ways to not do homework
17:02 < fenn> so, this earthquake in illinois was supposed to blow us all into the ocean, what went wrong?
17:08 < kanzure> god didn't hate you enough?
17:11 < fenn> i will work harder
17:28 < kanzure> what utter bullshit
17:28 < kanzure> http://www.kurzweilai.net/news/frame.html?main=news_single.html?id%3D8373
17:28 < kanzure> "RepRap replicates itself"
17:31 < fenn> i can knit a stocking
17:32 < fenn> hm. that didnt make sense
17:34 < fenn> i wonder if sex toys are illegal in new zealand
17:37 < kanzure> why would sex toys be illegal?
17:45 < fenn> apparently they are illegal in texas, kansas, louisiana, mississippi, alabama, georgia, and virginia?
17:46 < fenn> oh, wait texas is now legal as of feb 14 2008
17:49 < fenn> its strange they call it an archaic law when it was passed in 2003
17:49 < kanzure> wtf
17:49 < kanzure> Texas - illegalizing pleasure since 2003
17:50 < kanzure> link?
17:53 < kanzure> we need a wiki for rss aggregation
17:53 < kanzure> so that there is a persistent topic page tracking groups of stories
17:53 < kanzure> there is very obviously 'spikes' in the news where there's this trickle-down effect due to research
17:53 < kanzure> and so if we aggregate the spikes together, it would probably be slightly more useful
17:55 < fenn> i think that was the idea behind pingback in blogger
17:55 < fenn> who wants to read the same story 50 times though
17:56 < fenn> http://tailrank.com/5081460/Court-strikes-down-Texas-ban-on-sex-toys
18:53 -!- Splicer [n=p@h79n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:54 < Splicer> !help
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18:55 < Splicer> krebs seen kanzure
18:55 < krebs> kanzure was last seen 1 hour, 1 minute and 27 seconds ago, saying and so if we aggregate the spikes together, it would probably be slightly more useful
18:57 < Splicer> kanzure: Can I use the same IM quote I asked about before on the biopunk board too?
19:37 < kanzure> Hey.
19:38 < kanzure> Splicer: yes.
19:38 < Splicer> thanks
19:38 < Splicer> i just got a visit that was a referal from your site btw... from holland
19:39 < kanzure> woah
19:39 < kanzure> http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/20/208231
19:39 < kanzure> awesome
19:41 < Splicer> hehe.. you've been slashdotted
19:42 < Splicer> congratulations
19:42 < kanzure> http://slashdot.org/~the_kanzure <- I pwn at Slashdot.
19:49 < Splicer> I'm a bit impressed
19:51 < Splicer> your article is the last one yesterday on my feedreader(rss)
19:51 < kanzure> hm?
19:57 < Splicer> (my yesterday, 2am here now)
19:57 < kanzure> ah
20:08 < kanzure> One of the foreigners in the comments got a clue - `Stupid question time (I'm not from USA).  How does it work that you go to a lab directly after high school? With shitloads of luck I may be studying postgrad in the US.`
20:25 < Splicer> To tell you he truth, that slipped past me too. You mean you have access to a lab where you can run your own projects?
20:25 < kanzure> yes
20:25 < kanzure> :)
20:27 < Splicer> that's very cool ... hmm.. i wonder if say students of medical biology have that here... probably not, I don´t know
20:31 < Splicer> There should be some sort of student body who have access to labtime probably... it's the way it works with university metal-shops and used to be with computers  
20:36 < Splicer> "Keep an open mind as to how you'll be put to use. Lab work is not always glamorous."
20:36 < Splicer> really?
20:41 < kanzure> haha
20:43 < kanzure> http://powerofsmall.org/
20:57 < Splicer> what's nanotech got to do with any of that?
20:57 < kanzure> hm?
20:58 < Splicer> you were ironic?
20:58 < kanzure> what?
20:59 < Splicer> i was watching the nanotech clip... nanotech is gonna help with everything from terrorists to longevity
21:00 < Splicer> it was the buzzword of the day 10 years ago i think
21:03 < kanzure> heh
21:05 < Splicer> The nutty japanese transhumanist guy is called Michio Kaku
21:05 < kanzure> yes
21:06 < kanzure> I am not sure how much he knows.
21:06 < Splicer> well, he talks a lot
21:07 < Splicer> i looked at the lifeboat foundation site today....
21:08 < kanzure> http://lifeboat.com/ talked with me before I released the biohacking kit
21:08 < kanzure> basically they are a joke
21:08 < kanzure> they are *not* organized
21:09 < kanzure> The head of Lifeboat told me "go ahead and release it, you're just a high schooler" and I consequently got lots of angry emails from people at Lifeboat telling me I shouldn't have released it so soon, and that they needed more time
21:09 < Splicer> It looks like a bunch of geeks having opinions
21:10 < Splicer> I can´t see the science in their work... it just looks nutty to me
21:10 < kanzure> science in what work?
21:10 < kanzure> they are there to prevent bad things from happening
21:11 < kanzure> they don't do science
21:11 < kanzure> I mean, some of them are researchers
21:11 < kanzure> but Lifeboat itself is not research
21:11 < Splicer> speaking of nano... is nanoshield science?
21:12 < kanzure> what?
21:12 < kanzure> I suppose so, but what they have is a team of investigators really
21:12 < kanzure> they are not directly doing it as far as I can tell
21:12 < kanzure> the idea of making a shield so that no molecular nanotech can get through it? sure, that's science
21:12 < Splicer> they have a team of cracpots
21:12 < kanzure> what are you talking about?
21:12 < kanzure> we can already do some sorts of nanotech shields, like how we do UHVs and so on
21:12 < kanzure> many labs have those
21:13 < kanzure> the good ones can get down to 1E-13, which is freaking awesome
21:13 < kanzure> but then the difference is getting it *cheap*
21:20 < Splicer> not sure what you mean with nanotech shield
21:20 < kanzure> they are worried about grey goo
21:21 < Splicer> yeah, but not sure what you meant
21:21 < kanzure> I dunno, maybe they want a barrier to protect from the goos
21:22 < Splicer> [03:12] <kanzure> we can already do some sorts of nanotech shields, like how we do UHVs and so on
21:23 < kanzure> oh, 
21:23 < kanzure> it's how we keep things very cold
21:23 < kanzure> otherwise energy and matter would contaminate the ultracold environments
21:24 < kanzure> UHV = ultrahigh vacuum
21:24 < Splicer> ah
21:25 < Splicer> Good thing the lifeboaters are keeping watch
21:25 < Splicer> I have a feeling they don´t have a sence of humor about it
21:27 < Splicer> funny thing is.. there is always something to be terrified of
21:30 < Splicer> http://www.nano.gov/
21:34 < Splicer> time to sleep... cu
21:34 -!- Splicer [n=p@h79n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit []
22:35 < kanzure> fenn: apt is apparently unmaintained
22:35 < kanzure> I think this is a good opportunity, 
22:36 < kanzure> I offered to Daniel Burrows that I can set up a website and do some (informal) documentation and so on
22:36 < kanzure> since basically we're doing a similar project that encompasses it
22:48 < fenn> 4/20: a depressing reminder of the lack of american culture
23:31 < fenn> reading the slashdot article, this is totally false as far as academic labs at least: "You will be expected to put in extra effort, and perhaps extra time above what is supposedly expected, but will be looked down upon, and possibly resented, if you give too much."
23:32 < fenn> that whole comment is crap actually
23:34 < kanzure> yes, it's interesting to see the mixed signals
23:44 < fenn> oh yeah, lab notebook.. everything of importance must be written down by hand
23:44 < fenn> somehow that guarantees that you didnt just make it up
23:48 < kanzure> heh
23:48 < kanzure> hard copies are always good
23:48 < kanzure> as long as they are not the only ones