--- Day changed Sun May 11 2008
00:01 < fenn> tonight may end early for me
00:03 < Vedestin> omnious
00:03 < Vedestin> ominous even
00:03  * fenn stares at the sky fearfully
00:30 < kanzure> http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Revolution+OS&sitesearch= Revolution OS
00:30 < kanzure> Who was Stallman working under at MIT?
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02:07 < kanzure> Hi splicer.
02:13 < kanzure> WTF
02:13 < kanzure> "Popular Mechanics reports if the looming Discovery mission or any other between now and the spacecraft's retirement loses control, National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) is prepared to ditch it in the Atlantic ocean — or blow it up. The article also shows complete no-fly-zone maps and a photograph of the switch."
02:13 < kanzure> NASA of the '60s would NEVER have built in a self-destruct switch
02:13 < kanzure> Self-destruct wasn't an option.
02:28 < Biopunk> hi kanzure
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12:17 [Users #hplusroadmap]
12:17 [ drazak] [ fenn] [ krebs] [ Vedestin] 
12:17 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 4 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 4 normal]
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13:00 < kanzure> fenn: we need a specific example of a metadata file
13:00 < kanzure> let's do something with a name of the project, the location of the skdb file on the internet (URI), and then an object that stores a list of (valid) files within the dot skdb file
13:01  * kanzure is running off to go see Iron Man.
13:28 < kanzure> I wonder where I put the examples.
13:29 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/2008-04-26
13:30 < kanzure> Now that I think about it, how do you make a derivative metadata file? A new subtype, I mean. Right now the !! is supposed to be a reference to another metadata file, right? That'll have to change .. it needs to be a reference to a python file somewhere, which defines the class. Otherwise things go, poorly.
13:57 < fenn> !! is a verbose tag which references a python class (i think?)
14:19 < fenn> Local tags start with “!”, are not URIs and are not expected to be globally unique.
14:22 < fenn> i think of "%TAG fennetic.net/foo:v1.0:; bar: !baz" analogously to "import foo; bar = foo.baz" (i'm certain my yaml syntax is wrong)
14:25 < fenn> i think !! is only for built-in types
14:49 < fenn> oh, right !!python/object is a built-in type
15:36 < fenn> metric clock: watch -n 1 'date +%s; echo "G  M  k  s"'
15:37 < fenn> still not sure how to deal with conflicting values as a result of relativistic time dilation
15:37 < fenn> i guess you just have to keep track of two numbers instead of one
15:45 < fenn> the reason we still use hours/minutes/seconds is the church didnt like the idea of a ten day week
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17:28 < kanzure> Hi ybit, fenn
17:28 < kanzure> Chat with Max More in 30 minutes at http://www.ustream.tv/channel/immortality-update it seems
17:30 < ybit> oi kanzure, the house wasn't blown away last night :)
17:30 < ybit> Vedestin's comment made me laught though
17:30 < kanzure> Heh.
17:40 < ybit> what's typically discussed there?
17:40 < ybit> i'll ask there
17:45 < kanzure> Ah, sorry, didn't see your question here.
17:45 < kanzure> Anyway, answered.
17:46 < kanzure> So. I need to come up with some objects, fenn, for the OpenVirglers to get fully interested. I am thinking that I'll just start by writing up some python classes. It should be pretty simple. I don't know how to write python classes, though, nor how to get inventive with them. Do we want just plain ol' variables? A few integers, a few strings, that sort of thing?
17:53 < kanzure> Bah, they are blocking my comments in the chat room.
18:14 < fenn> no video.. lame
18:16 < kanzure> eh
18:16 < kanzure> I could just drive up to his house
18:16 < kanzure> I doubt he's doing anything new, and the interface *sucks*.
18:16 < kanzure> So.
18:16 < fenn> i have no idea who max more is
18:16 < kanzure> These guys from ImmInst are apparently complaining about how nobody wants to associate with them because of their name
18:16 < kanzure> http://maxmore.com/
18:16 < kanzure> uh, hold on
18:17 < kanzure> http://www.maxmore.com/extprn3.htm
18:17 < kanzure> the whole
18:17 < kanzure> 'perpetual progress ,self-transformation, practical optimism, tech, open society, self-direction, rational thinking' thing
18:17 < fenn> right i was whining about that last night
18:17 < kanzure> yep
18:19 < fenn> wow and now we have stories about immortality on every sitcom ~snark~
18:21 < fenn> i've skimmed over that huge block of text about ten times now without knowing what it said
18:23 < fenn> re: example artifact metadata, i'm sick today and got distracted.. sorry
18:27 < kanzure> what block of text
18:27 < kanzure> on 2008-04-26 ?
18:27 < fenn> extprn3.htm
18:32 < fenn> "perpetual learning and exploration" seems rather difficult to achieve in practice
18:34 < fenn> i guess it goes back to the old saw about whether a computer program that acts just like you is really you or not
18:35 < fenn> kanzure: what's your stance on the toposophic conjecture?
18:36 < kanzure> possibly bullshit, *but* my behavior is unchanged whether it is true or false, since I'll die trying [while also making the 'next generation' brain architecture etc.]
18:37 < fenn> if you had a choice to work on your own brain architecture or the next generation, which would it be?
18:38 < kanzure> it's both at the same time
18:39 < fenn> that's cheating
18:40 < kanzure> you proposed a loaded situation
18:40 < kanzure> remember what I was talking about,
18:40 < kanzure> using self-replication to do giant fields of simulations of brains or the actual physical brains
18:40 < kanzure> or not really of brains, sorry
18:40 < kanzure> of minicolumns and other structures etc.
18:40 < kanzure> so that we know what modifications to make on our own brains
18:40 < kanzure> while also allowing that digital infrastructure to come together as well
18:40 < kanzure> so it's not cheating at all ... it's just a byproduct of the implementation
18:41 < kanzure> fenn: I think I'm going to become Richard Stallman.
18:41 < fenn> its a byproduct of your inability to make a decision :P
18:41 < kanzure> perhaps
18:41 < kanzure> I know that I'm *probably* screwed in the end
18:41 < fenn> i think richard stallman is a poor role model
18:42 < kanzure> he bootstrapped the free software movement
18:42 < fenn> i admire his ideals and determination to stick to what he believes to be right
18:42 < kanzure> in a sense.
18:42 < fenn> but he totally flopped the political side of things
18:43 < fenn> now we have "the linux OS" and "open source movement"
18:43 < fenn> people see stallman as a whiny selfish bitch
18:44 < fenn> it's sad but true
18:44 < fenn> its edison electric all over again
18:52 < kanzure> yes
18:52 < kanzure> I think that his mission is incomplete sort of
18:52 < kanzure> why the hell did he stop at software
18:52 < kanzure> why not manufacturing
18:54 < kanzure> Anyway,
18:55 < kanzure> the openvirglers have made a suggestion for skdb
18:55 < kanzure> they are suggesting a first project
18:55 < kanzure> either origami instructions or a bicycle
18:55 < kanzure> I'm thinking about pulling a Gingery here
18:55 < kanzure> and doing some packages on basic industrial bootstrapping with metals
18:55 < kanzure> What do you think?
18:58 < fenn> origami is simple, i like it
18:58 < fenn> bicycle is horrendously complex
18:59 < kanzure> btw, when the time come
18:59 < kanzure> *comes
18:59 < kanzure> I think I can get instructables.com onboard
18:59 < kanzure> MIT contacts are awesome :)
18:59 < fenn> because of dalrymple?
18:59 < kanzure> yes
18:59 < kanzure> and Gershenfeld
18:59 < fenn> hm.
18:59 < kanzure> instructables.com is Saul Griffith
18:59 < fenn> i know
19:00 < fenn> i spent several hours yesterday reading about saul griffith
19:00 < kanzure> yeah?
19:00 < kanzure> that's more than what I have read about him
19:00 < kanzure> what'd you find?
19:00 < fenn> just read his masters thesis, looked at phd thesis, etc (i had already looked at a lot of his stuff earlier)
19:01 < fenn> basically my reaction was "that doesnt look so hard"
19:01 < fenn> "maybe i actually stand a chance of getting in"
19:01 < kanzure> to MIT?
19:01 < kanzure> nope, that's a lie
19:01 < kanzure> they rejected me
19:01 < kanzure> so I'm still wondering who the hell at MIT is matching me . .. I know, I know, big ego, but seriously
19:01 < kanzure> looking at the facts of the situation
19:01 < fenn> some indian kid
19:02 < kanzure> who ? what Indian kid took the plunge to publish biohacking information, or took the plunge to put together brain implant projects, or etc. etc.
19:02 < kanzure> I'm just saying.
19:03 < fenn> well, the type of people who review admissions applications arent exactly known for valuing "eccentric" ideas
19:03 < fenn> maybe i'm just lying to myself but i have to
19:04 < fenn> and honestly i've looked at gershenfeld + friends code and it's nothing special
19:04 < fenn> but dammit, its the only game in town
19:05 < kanzure> yeah, exactly
19:05 < kanzure> what the hell would they say if I one up Gershenfeld
19:05 < kanzure> because they're supposed to be doing self-replication stuff
19:05 < fenn> they'd arrest you
19:05 < kanzure> but if you look at it, and look at their websites etc.,
19:05 < kanzure> they're not actually doing anything at all
19:05 < kanzure> granted, Dalrymple has shown me some stuff going on inside
19:05 < kanzure> and they are actually doing, well, thins
19:05 < kanzure> *things
19:06 < kanzure> it's how I first learned of Winfree's DNA assembly stuff for example
19:06 < fenn> well, a lot of it is putting the disparate pieces together and giving them direction
19:06 < kanzure> perhaps so
19:06 < kanzure> huh
19:06 < kanzure> sounds like eccentricism.
19:06 < fenn> yep you're allowed to be eccentric once you get tenure
19:06 < kanzure> ah, I see.
19:07 < fenn> otherwise you're "practicing medicine without a license"
19:09 < fenn> yaml 1.2 is just around the corner
19:10 < fenn> btw stallman didnt invent the internet, there was a lot of "liberal thought" going around in computer circles for so long that it's kind of amazing that corporate narrowmindedness was even able to take root
19:10 < fenn> he was just the most persistent and had a plan
19:11 < kanzure> I didn't say he invented the internet
19:12 < kanzure> oh, I had an insight yesterday
19:12 < kanzure> while flipping through a stack of manufacturing texts
19:12 < kanzure> oh, I already mentioned this
19:12 < kanzure> drats.
19:12 < fenn> you have too many books?
19:12 < fenn> you have ocpd?
19:13 < fenn> i collect tools
19:13 < fenn> better than collecting old newspapers or used kleenex
19:15 < kanzure> hm?
19:15 < kanzure> too many books?
19:15 < kanzure> Not enough :)
19:15 < kanzure> fenn: I am getting the headache again; could you please hack out a few lines of python to write a class that represents a basic metadata file for skdb
19:15 < kanzure> :(
19:16  * fenn resumes the 13130 sci-fi book torrent
19:16 < kanzure> ooh
19:16 < kanzure> linkage
19:16 < kanzure> please?
19:16 < fenn> for some reason its split up into 1GB chunks: http://www.mininova.org/tor/1214999
19:17 < kanzure> eh
19:17 < fenn> update 1 2 3 4 5 are like daily diffs
19:18 < fenn> its the only place on the net i could find 'a deepness in the sky'
19:19 < kanzure> you ignored my request
19:19 < kanzure> I need to go run and hide from this headpain.
19:19 < fenn> i've got wisdom tooth + sinus infection, buddy
19:19 < fenn> fluorescent green sticky stuff coming out
19:20 < fenn> ok, i promise to work on it if you dont distract me
19:30 < ybit> kanzure: who's the guy that interviewed max more?
19:31 < ybit> Mind is his username...
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19:56 -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: http://heybryan.org/ http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ http://heybryan.org/exp.html | krebs is now servicing the channel. try !help
19:56 -!- Topic set by kanzure [] [Tue Apr 29 18:54:31 2008]
19:56 [Users #hplusroadmap]
19:56 [ drazak] [ fenn_  ] [ krebs   ] [ ybit] 
19:56 [ fenn  ] [ kanzure] [ Vedestin] 
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19:56 -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008
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20:32 < kanzure> ybit: Mind is just some guy from http://imminst.org/ - that's all I know.
20:32 < kanzure> Tylenol + amphetamine seems to be doing some good for me. Although maybe it was just seeing Marry Poppins on television that shocked me out of it. What the hell were they thinking? Dancing pinguins and flying merry-go-rounds?
20:35 < kanzure> what the fuck
20:35 < kanzure> http://google.com/search?q=metarepository
20:35 < kanzure> https://www.metarepository.com/
20:35 < kanzure> ''An on-line modeling tool is missing on the web
20:35 < kanzure> Models, data, metadata, should all be accessible via the web. The same way as there is a web-based mail that can be accessed anytime from anywhere (i.e. GMail), there should be a web-based metarepository to hold models. No special IDE's to be installed. Ready to generate useful outputs from the data (reports, documents, or even program code).
20:36 < kanzure> Seems to be about modeling.
20:38 < kanzure> http://www.grister.org/articles/2000/00.10.14_Transtech_Map.html transtech map
20:39 < kanzure> Hm. He lives near me.
20:39 < fenn> nice map
20:40 < kanzure> sent an email yelling at him for not being responsible and meeting up with me
20:40 < fenn> well, too bad about the flat 2d gritty squint-at picture
20:40 < fenn> but i've never seen anything like it
20:41 < kanzure> http://www.grister.org/articles/1999/99.07.31_Transtech.html
20:43 < fenn> kaczynski has some thoughts on what happens when people have too much leisure time :)
21:00 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/pipermail/hplusroadmap/2008-May/000487.html
21:00 < kanzure> you know you're going wrong when your own grandmother sends you an email about instructables.com 20 minutes after you're talking about it in the IRC channel
21:01 < kanzure> Hahaha
21:01 < kanzure> So after getting my mind back, they want to force me to walk around mowing the lawn
21:01 < kanzure> Awesome. 
21:02 < Vedestin> what happened to your mind?
21:03 < kanzure> Vedestin: Got a weird headache and couldn't do any programming.
21:03 < Vedestin> maybe it's a tumour
21:03 < kanzure> So I did some tylenol tablets which seem to have helped.
21:03 < kanzure> Haha, a tumor? Maybe. I guess it would be cool to have an excuse to get a brainscan.
21:03 < fenn> do they let you keep the data?
21:04 < kanzure> from my experiences with doctors that use digital imaging, "Hell no"
21:04 < kanzure> Nobody ever gives me the data, even when I ask.
21:04 < kanzure> I even hand them the flash drive and point to their USB port.
21:04 < kanzure> or tell them where to email it to
21:04 < kanzure> How'd epitron get his brainscans in a tar anyway ?
21:05 < kanzure> hm, I need some origami sites
21:06 < kanzure> Woah, I have no bookmarks on origami.
21:06 < Vedestin> is that suprising?
21:06 < fenn> yes
21:07 < Vedestin> ok
21:07 < kanzure> Only one search result on ""origami markup"" (looking for origami ML)
21:07 < kanzure> Vedestin: I have tens of thousands of bookmarks. You give me a tech name, and I probably have a few links on it. Probably. 
21:07 < kanzure> apparently I've missed out on origamitech :)
21:08 < kanzure> YOUTSU video wall, UCHI environment and why it can not play;; 
21:08 < kanzure> Loading and solidified. 
21:08 < kanzure> Origami creations also have close behind. Or dragon or unicorn, dinosaurs and vocals. 
21:08 < kanzure> Hyper-related components so that, origami and OML (Origami Markup Language) it's there. 
21:08 < kanzure> Anything, origami logical language to describe the structure. 
21:08 < kanzure> A little GUGU I have not made shortly, is does not seem to spread. 
21:08 < kanzure> CHORO previously seen only there, but the spell was SHIROTO w
21:08 < kanzure> Hm.
21:09 < fenn> i seem to have lost my origami links
21:09 < kanzure> So there might be an Origami Markup Language
21:09 < fenn> i have NFC that those japanese words are talking about
21:09 < kanzure> "OML"
21:10 < kanzure> http://www.ganymeta.org/~darren/origami2.php
21:10 < kanzure> Origami fold language
21:11 < kanzure> http://doodle.sourceforge.net/
21:12 < kanzure> http://creased.com/ for diagrams (argh, not good enough)
21:12 < kanzure> heh http://www.peacetree.info/history.php origami peace tree project, aww
21:13 < kanzure> Global Language: Origami Shape Language (OSL)
21:13 < kanzure> from none other than CSAIL
21:14 < fenn> those bastards
21:14 < kanzure> http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/projects/amorphous/Progmat/thesis/origami-global.html
21:15 < fenn> looks like lisp to me
21:17 < fenn> <epitron> the toronto hospital system lets you get copies of your imaging scans for free
21:17 < fenn> <epitron> i just went to the central imaging center and asked for a cd
21:18 < fenn> i might be more interested in origami if it werent so hard :)
21:18 < kanzure> right
21:19 < kanzure> it does take a certain skill, doesn't it?
21:21 < fenn> <epitron> did you ask "why"? :)
21:21 < kanzure> fenn: programming with an origami fold language is interesting
21:21 < kanzure> it shows how art, is in fact, a design process of programming
21:21 < fenn> er.. "why wont you give me my own images"
21:21 < kanzure> hm
21:23 < fenn> its useful as a demo because everyone already has a 2d printer
21:24 < kanzure> aha
21:24 < kanzure> that too
21:24 < kanzure> I'm thinking that it'd be good if we could translate the OFL into human readable statements
21:24 < kanzure> or into visual diagrams
21:24 < kanzure> and then say "ok, now imagine that you are a mechanical arm, and all of that info was digital"
21:24 < kanzure> "that's what the hell we're talking about"
21:24 < kanzure> of course, GitS has gone over the point that it's hard to make a mechanical arm fold swans ;-)
21:25 < fenn> yes and no
21:25 < kanzure> cranes, rather
21:25 < fenn> low precision manipulation is just an area that hasnt received much interest (because humans are already cheap and good at it)
21:25 < kanzure> http://youtube.com/watch?v=yuGDnFgQUXA
21:28 < fenn> true story, btw
21:29 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadako_Sasaki
21:33 < kanzure> what sort of crappy analogy is "plane crash" to "1/1000th the energy of the sun going off less than 2 miles from you, oh and you don't die immediately"
21:34 < fenn> it probably has something to do with the story
21:43 < fenn> there are some steps to folding a paper crane that are hard to explain with just a sequence of images and words
21:44 < fenn> gosh maybe origami isnt the simple thing i thought it was :P
21:53 < kanzure> hm, possibly
22:25 < fenn> "what happens when everyone is smart, ambitious, informed and motivated?" <- and he makes it sound like a bad thing..
22:27 < kanzure> who?
22:28 < fenn> gratton
22:28 < fenn> grister.org
22:29 < kanzure> yes, I noticed that he has a negative take on things
22:29 < kanzure> http://www.seds.org/mailman/listinfo/crowdsat
22:29 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CubeSat
22:29 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CubeSat
22:29 < kanzure> http://wiki.seds.org/index.php/Indian_Student_Satellite
22:29 < kanzure> http://actionforspace.blogspot.com/
22:29 < kanzure> http://www.politico.com/
22:29 < kanzure> http://forums.seds.org/index.php
22:29 < kanzure> http://wiki.seds.org/index.php/SEDSIC2007_Design_Competition
22:30 < kanzure> Students for the Development of Space
22:30  * fenn paddles furiously
22:30 < kanzure> http://www.crowdsat.org
22:32 < fenn> why a cube?
22:33 < fenn> seems hard to stabilize
22:39 < kanzure> ybit: Hey. I didn't realize you were sneaking up on me like that via facebook.
22:41 < ybit> lol
22:41  * ybit is away for about an hour
22:43 < kanzure> fenn: http://www.langorigami.com/art/creasepatterns/creasepatterns.php4 Crease Pattern lang? Seems to be a diagram method.
23:00 < kanzure> Hadoop/MapReduce for manufacturing?
23:00 < kanzure> <--- is a moron
23:01 < kanzure> one of those "Of course, of course!" moments
23:18 < kanzure> hm
23:18 < kanzure> this is disappointing
23:18 < kanzure> wait, no it's not
23:25 < kanzure> Heh, I am such a player. I've combined a local SEDS chapter with a local NSS chapter. 
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