--- Day changed Wed May 14 2008 00:01 < Vedestin> going now 00:03 -!- ybit [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:03 -!- ybit [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:03 < kanzure> $700 for a round trip to Washington D.C., 00:03 < kanzure> does that sound like a deal? 00:28 < ybit> kanzure: (Mankind, WTF?) :P 00:28 < ybit> hehe 00:28 < ybit> saw that this morning 00:32 -!- Biopunk [n=p@h209n2c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:33 < kanzure> Hey Biopunk. 00:33 < Biopunk> hey kanzure 00:33 < Biopunk> new day - new possibilities 00:34 < kanzure> Hm? 00:35 < Biopunk> fact 00:39 < kanzure> This is pretty cramped. But I can make it work. 00:39 < kanzure> This is going to be fun. 00:45 < ybit> kanzure: try kayak.com 00:45 < ybit> oi Phreedom 00:46 < ybit> is your roomie walking like a normal human being now? :P 01:21 -!- ybit [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:10 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:15 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:24 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.210.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:57 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:11 -!- nsh [n=chatzill@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:41 -!- Splicer2 [n=p@h209n2c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:41 < Vedestin> so what's doin in h+ 09:01 -!- Biopunk [n=p@h209n2c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46 * nsh is musing on the nature of orthogonality 10:01 -!- Biopunk [n=p@h70n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:16 -!- Splicer2 [n=p@h209n2c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:23 -!- Biopunk [n=p@h70n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [] 11:01 -!- Vedestin [n=vircuser@d58-111-90-12.sbr3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"] 11:13 -!- ybit [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:26 -!- drazak [i=drazak@drazak.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:38 -!- nsh [n=chatzill@wikipedia/nsh] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.82 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]"] 14:07 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-155-173.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:52 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-70-113-54-112.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:53 < kanzure> Hey. 17:54 < fenn> hullo 17:55 < kanzure> The library computers were taken today, and I was wanting to do some reading on floaters, but instead just recursed through the physical indices and found Steven Bardin Johnson's "Mind Wide Open" (author of 'Emergence' and that other book on brains, ants, and the internet). 17:56 < kanzure> It is a very low-level book in terms of density, so I flipped through it in 30 minutes and saw too many names that I like to be of a coincidence 17:56 < kanzure> Howard Rheingold, Robert Wright, Engelbart ('neural darwinism' / neural selection and competition within the brain), Kurzweil, etc. 17:57 < fenn> what is the book about? 17:57 < kanzure> in it, he talks about an alternative to 'sit and talk' therapy, 17:57 < kanzure> and goes into the idea of observing your own brain with fMRI to optimize your functionality 17:58 < kanzure> which is essentially http://heybryan.org/recursion.html but filtered down ;-) 17:59 < kanzure> Engelbart is a friend of Markram, I think 17:59 < fenn> that's crazy enough it might be true 18:00 < kanzure> E. O. Wilson too, 18:00 < kanzure> although it seems that E.O. Wilson is just the token guy you have to reference 18:00 < kanzure> I tried reading Wilson's book back in 2002 or something like that 18:00 < kanzure> guess I didn't get it 18:00 < kanzure> "Consilience - The Unity of Knowledge" 18:07 < nsh> i wouldn't bother 18:08 < nsh> he just comes off as an arrogative dick with a hammer, calling everything he sees a nail not bothering to do much hammering on a the few actual nails 18:08 < nsh> *and not 18:27 < kanzure> nsh: Wilson? 18:28 * nsh nods 18:29 < kanzure> interesting things to see in your email inbox: "Jimmy Wales confirmed you as a friend on facebook" 18:45 < kanzure> todo: email oww-discuss and talk to them about modeling via skdb 18:45 < kanzure> hrm 18:46 < kanzure> fenn: would you be willing to call into the OpenWetWare steering commitee phonecall and put in a few words about what SKDB provides and why OpenWetWare should convert? 18:55 < fenn> um, no 18:56 < fenn> 1) i hate telephones 2) i dont know what openwetware has or what they are trying to do 3) skdb is still vapor 19:00 < kanzure> k 19:00 < kanzure> btw, Paul got back to me and suggested not only paper models but also rube goldberg machines 19:01 < kanzure> I said "eh" to him, it's ok I guess, but good luck trying to make a mechanical system out of folded paper 19:57 -!- h2i [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:05 -!- ybit [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:11 < kanzure> Hi h2i. 20:11 < kanzure> Ah, ybit. 20:12 < kanzure> fenn: Drew Endy might be onboard SKDB. 20:12 < kanzure> On Wednesday 14 May 2008, Drew Endy wrote: 20:12 < kanzure> > The subject of your email might seem to be disingenuous. You are not 20:12 < kanzure> > proposing "doing slightly more." You are proposing a transition 20:12 < kanzure> > from a monolithic, linear code base to a network-based development 20:12 < kanzure> > community, which would be very exciting. Bill F. and I are going to 20:12 < kanzure> > discuss your ideas in some detail over the next few days and report 20:12 < kanzure> > back. 20:31 < h2i> test 20:31 < h2i> woah 20:31 < h2i> ha 20:31 * h2i didn't realize i had switched to wireless mode 20:32 < kanzure> h2i: Did you see the Endy quote? 20:34 < h2i> indeed 20:34 < h2i> that's very exciting 20:34 < kanzure> Why can't I find a "Good news everybody" futurama quote on youtube. 20:35 < h2i> hahaha 20:42 -!- drazak [i=drazak@drazak.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:50 -!- nsh [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:50 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-155-173.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:12 -!- h2i [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:21 < kanzure> http://www.antlr.org/ 21:22 < fenn> boo hiss 21:23 < kanzure> why's that? 21:23 < fenn> code generation's a bad idea 21:23 < fenn> and it's java :\ 21:23 < kanzure> oh, java 21:24 < kanzure> code generation -> then what about compiler-compilers? 21:24 < fenn> let's see someone try to do this with origami: http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0805.JPG 21:24 < kanzure> woah, that's awesome 21:24 * kanzure goes to work on his printer 21:24 < fenn> i had more trouble with the inkjet printer than anything 21:24 < kanzure> Epson *has* to work at some point, right? 21:25 < fenn> srsly 21:25 < kanzure> xsane hasn't worked with the Epson scanner yet, but maybe I didn't spend enough time on it 21:25 < fenn> it was supposed to be r/g/b but i had to fall back to laserjet 21:25 < kanzure> inc. the config files etc. 21:26 < fenn> these paper models are sorta self-assembling 21:27 < fenn> it would be interesting to try different substrates 21:27 < kanzure> Grace Murray Hopper invented the compiler? wtf? sounds false 21:27 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper 21:29 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-0_programming_language 21:29 < kanzure> ah, that was just the implementation 21:29 < kanzure> looks like an interpreter 21:30 < fenn> "converted the specification into machine code that could be fed into the computer a second time to execute the program." sounds like a compiler to me 21:32 < fenn> i wonder why they say the moth story is the origin of the term 'debugging' when it clearly says right below the moth "first actual case of a bug being found" 21:56 -!- drazak [i=drazak@drazak.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:00 -!- ybit [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:02 < ybit> kanzure: i'm curious what d. endy's response is 22:02 < kanzure> ybit: Me too. I think he'll like it. 22:02 -!- Radcore [n=Radcore@d58-111-90-12.sbr3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:02 < kanzure> especially since I've volunteered to single-handedly do the codebase. 22:02 < kanzure> Hi Radcore. 22:02 < ybit> who is bill f.? 22:03 < Radcore> hey 22:03 -!- Radcore is now known as Vedestin 22:03 < kanzure> ybit: Apparently it's a partner. 22:03 < kanzure> Vedestin: :( I thought you were somebody new. 22:03 < Vedestin> yeah, i know 22:03 < Vedestin> i didn't want to let you down 22:12 < ybit> what exactly was your proposal to him? 22:12 < Vedestin> being a new person 22:13 < ybit> o.O 22:13 * ybit was speaking to kanzure :P 22:13 < kanzure> ybit: My proposal. Hm. Let me go find the link. 22:13 < ybit> but i'll talk with you, Vedestin, if you want :) 22:14 < ybit> i'm guessing: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Skdb 22:14 < kanzure> http://mailman.mit.edu/pipermail/oww-discuss/2008-May/000427.html 22:14 < ybit> or not 22:15 < kanzure> but it is. 22:33 < fenn> dammit kanzure you wrote the same crappy email and made all the same mistakes 22:34 < kanzure> fenn: shit 22:34 < ybit> so did you email him specifically, because i'm not seeing his response on the mailing list 22:34 < kanzure> fenn: you're going to have to beat me into it 22:34 < kanzure> ybit: he emailed me privately in response 22:35 < fenn> kanzure: first, you have to explain what your idea is, what the idea behind debian is (not just meaningless statistics saying how huge and unmanageable it is) and why this is a good strategy that a reasonable person would want to put effort towards 22:36 < kanzure> "Hi, I think this is a good idea because we can collaborate and do stuff together. Debian does this. They're doing pretty damn well. And even a small guy can profit, example here" 22:36 < kanzure> that format? 22:37 < fenn> example of what NOT to put in your email: "It's incredible that Debian Distribution and Development hasn't fallen into a big steaming heap of broken pieces, with administrators, users and ISPs all screaming at each other and wanting to scratch each others' eyes out on the mailing lists and IRC channels, only to find that those aren't there either. 22:38 < Vedestin> so...you were holding Debian up as an example of how to collaborate? 22:39 * ybit was happy to see an improvement with Gentoo mentioned ;) 22:40 -!- nsh_ [n=nsh@87-94-155-173.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:45 < kanzure> fenn: I didn't write that, but I won't include it. 22:46 < fenn> but.. it's in the email. it's hard for someone skimming through to see what's a quote and what's your writing 22:46 < fenn> end result: confusion and annoyance 22:47 < kanzure> fenn: should I go back to the '>' prefix to lines that aren't mine no matter what? 22:52 < fenn> um.. you should just use less quotes 22:54 < fenn> how do i post a reply to a thread without having any headers? 22:55 < kanzure> that's a good question 22:55 < kanzure> I've thought about that before, and sometimes I think that you should be able to fake the headers 22:57 < kanzure> with telnet, at worst 22:57 < kanzure> http://www.bglug.ca/articles/replyto_header_notes.html 22:57 < kanzure> erm, nevermind with that link 22:59 < kanzure> fenn: I can't really forward you the message as received by mit.edu, since gmail doesn't let me get messages I send to mailing lists 22:59 -!- nsh_ [n=nsh@87-94-155-173.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:01 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-155-173.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:03 < Vedestin> forward it somewhere else and on from there 23:04 < kanzure> how would I forward it if I only have the copy I originally sent? 23:04 < kanzure> it doesn't have the headers that gmail assigned it 23:06 < Vedestin> ok 23:26 < fenn> "appropriately" high barrier - hmph! 23:26 < fenn> i hope he isnt serious 23:26 < fenn> crap i forgot to link back to skdb 23:26 < fenn> oh well 23:28 < kanzure> Russell Hanson? 23:28 < fenn> ya 23:28 < fenn> is he trolling? 23:28 < kanzure> "It seems Bryan can't write an email in plain english, so I feel obligated 23:28 < kanzure> to explain for him:" heh 23:28 < kanzure> Russell? I doubt it. 23:28 < kanzure> http://hansonr.org/ 23:29 < fenn> heh looks much less old and crusty than i pictured 23:30 < kanzure> well, would somebody old type out that much in a single paragraph? 23:30 < kanzure> hrm, I wouldn't know how to answer that question 23:31 < fenn> i bet he writes email in VI 23:49 < ybit> he uses windows and mac osx i do believe 23:50 < ybit> just a guess 23:50 -!- Vedestin [n=Radcore@d58-111-90-12.sbr3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"] 23:50 < ybit> so he's probably not a vi user nor an OS advocate 23:52 < kanzure> what happens when the Mac OS X people realize what their kernel is