--- Day changed Fri Jul 18 2008 00:35 < Splicer> they usually are 00:38 < procto> folks I have seen the future 00:38 < procto> spent tonight at the fablab in boston 00:38 < procto> lasering shit 00:39 < procto> laser cutters.... i want one in every room of my house 01:10 -!- Netsplit niven.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Overand, Democritus, procto 01:11 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Overand 01:12 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Democritus, procto 01:12 -!- procto [n=boo@logarchy.org] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 01:12 -!- procto_ [n=boo@logarchy.org] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:17 -!- Biopunk [n=p@h169n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 01:28 -!- Splicer [n=p@h73n2c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:29 < kanzure_> procto: fablab flunked in Austin. 03:09 -!- h2i [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:10 -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 03:28 -!- Splicer [n=p@h116n2c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:36 < kanzure_> What controls the irssi blinkenthinger blink rate? It looks abnormally high. 03:43 -!- Biopunk [n=p@h169n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:53 < fenn> http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/chinamil_07_09/chinamil8.jpg 03:53 -!- Splicer [n=p@h116n2c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:50 -!- [PLACEHOLDER] [n=nsh@eduroam-80.uta.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:00 -!- [PLACEHOLDER] is now known as nsh 05:07 < procto_> kanzure_: flunked? 06:04 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:01 -!- Hrpuffnstuf [n=ard@c-68-49-79-239.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:18 -!- Democritus [n=ard@68.49.79.239] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:22 -!- Hrpuffnstuf [n=ard@c-68-49-79-239.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:19 -!- Jacco [n=Im@adsl-074-166-085-040.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:35 -!- Andares [n=Im@adsl-074-166-085-040.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:36 -!- Jacco [n=Im@adsl-074-166-085-040.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:37 -!- Jacco [n=Im@adsl-074-166-085-040.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:45 -!- Democritus [n=bee@12.152.56.50] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:01 < kanzure_> Hey Jacco. 12:27 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@66.112.232.74] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:42 -!- nsh [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit ["ba'i"] 12:46 < kanzure> fenn: did you see the javascript-based interface to graphviz and dia? 12:46 < kanzure> it looked like an interactive graphing utility that could be used for suckering people into making up models for skdb 12:46 < kanzure> especially if we just tie it in to generating some .skdb files or some such 12:47 < kanzure> I wonder if there's a dia <=> yaml conversion utility 12:47 < kanzure> ah, we can just have a dia variable in the metadata for relationships perhaps 12:50 < fenn> generating graphviz commands is fairly easy i think 12:50 < kanzure> h2i: Would you want to play around with the moupsemap thing? 12:50 < kanzure> probably 12:50 < kanzure> I remember the dia syntax being simple enough 12:50 < kanzure> something like, quite literally "thinger1 => thinger2" showing directionality 12:51 < fenn> i think you are thinking of something else, not dia? 12:51 < kanzure> oh, maybe? 12:51 < fenn> graphviz syntax is fairly simple (for simple diagrams) 12:52 < fenn> dia seems to use some binary format 12:53 < kanzure> oops 12:53 < kanzure> bad memory then 13:00 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:01 -!- Jacco is now known as Andares 13:01 < Andares> Hey kanzure. 13:02 < kanzure> Hi Andares. 13:02 < Andares> Passaged some hNPs today. ;) 13:02 < Andares> It was only 1:1 but still fun. 13:02 < Andares> Hope they didn't get infected though.. 13:05 < kanzure> huh, the SVG + js options look pretty easy http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-svgint/#Scripting (I'm just guessing on the anchor name) 13:06 < Andares> js = javascript? 13:06 < kanzure> yes, sorry 13:06 < kanzure> I usually just spell it out since it's retarded 13:06 < Andares> heh 13:06 < kanzure> but the extension name is .js so :) 13:06 < Andares> I dislike js 13:06 < Andares> with a passion. 13:06 < kanzure> Me too. I don't know why I'm doing this. 13:11 < Andares> The same kind of feeling when you wake up in the morning in a random bed with stuff written in permanent ink on your forehead :p 13:11 < Andares> And alcohol and strange pills strewn about. 13:13 < Democritus> hmm clothing optional party - think i will pass on this one 13:13 < Democritus> goto a naked party or stay home and code 13:18 < kanzure_> What are you talking about? 13:18 < Andares> Code, of course. 13:18 < Andares> kanzure_, I was describing the feeling of the morning-after of js programming :p 13:18 < kanzure_> Ah, well this is the morning of :-) 13:19 < Democritus> http://www.loadoffun.net/EroRules.html 13:19 < Andares> afk 13:19 < Democritus> oh i got invited to goto that 13:19 < Democritus> gotta love "clothing optional 2nd and 3rd floor" 13:20 < Andares> Democritus, dammnn go to it. :D I would get over my anxiety probably though beforehand 13:20 < Andares> afk. 13:20 < Democritus> i dont have any 13:20 < Democritus> been to boatloads of em 13:24 < fenn> "No Genital Sex" <- what exactly is that supposed to mean? 13:24 < Democritus> oh 13:24 < Democritus> that is standard 13:24 < Democritus> i used to goto a every weekend BDSM club- same thing 13:24 < Democritus> full nudity- you are allowed everything but that 13:25 < Democritus> that keeps the clubs from getting shut down 13:26 < Democritus> they tend to seriously bend the local obscene laws- but full genital sex ALWAYS breaks whatever city code that is applicable 13:26 < fenn> so, um, lessee would a 'rimjob' be permitted? 13:28 -!- Jacco [n=Im@adsl-074-166-085-040.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:28 < Democritus> that was always a point of contention 13:28 < kanzure> var f6=function(x){return ( (1/(1.3*Math.sqrt(2*Math.pi))) * Math.pow( -((Math.log(x)-Math.log(0.05))/1.3)/2,2) ); }; 13:28 < kanzure> Why would this not plot in javascript? 13:29 < kanzure> the main issue is the return variable, not the rimjob 13:29 < kanzure> erm, I mean, not the variable basis 13:29 < kanzure> assignment. 13:29 < Democritus> ha - sorry kanzure 13:29 < kanzure> sorry for what? 13:29 < Democritus> (diverting from real discussion) 13:29 < fenn> d^-^b 13:29 < kanzure> most of what goes on in here is a diversion 13:29 < Democritus> kk 13:29 < kanzure> a good excuse for me to not be doing work etc. 13:30 < kanzure> 'good' being relative 13:30 < Democritus> :D 13:30 < Democritus> hey did you happen to read the log from after you left last night? 13:30 < kanzure> yes 13:30 < Democritus> i was writing descriptions of how i interpretted your idea- was just curious if it is getting closer to a match 13:37 < kanzure> can any of you read german code? 13:37 < kanzure> http://svglbc.datenverdrahten.de/?code=funktion_integrieren&znr=on where are the vertical axis limits specified? 13:37 < kanzure> well, Dutch 13:38 < Democritus> for the comments? 13:38 < kanzure> hm 13:38 < kanzure> not quite, just the variables in general 13:38 < kanzure> nsh: want to give it a try? 13:39 -!- h2i is now known as ybit 13:41 < ybit> moupsemap? 13:41 < kanzure_> the tag on the page said Google Moupse 13:42 < ybit> ah 13:42 < fenn> where is the actual app so we can see wtf you're talking about? 13:42 < kanzure> http://sparql.neurocommons.org:8890/map/ 13:42 < kanzure> ybit found it :) 13:42 < kanzure> uh, that's probably a bad link 13:42 < ybit> it is :) 13:43 < kanzure> you'll have to check the logs 13:43 < kanzure> I'm missing those logs due to the porno'clock crazies 13:43 < ybit> http://sparql.neurocommons.org:8890/map/#Kcnip3@2850,Kcnd1@2800 13:43 < kanzure> thanks 13:44 < ybit> linked from http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/Banff2007Demo 13:44 -!- Andares [n=Im@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:45 < ybit> what did you have have in mind by "play with it"? 13:47 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/google_maps.txt 13:47 < kanzure> maybe something involving the Google Maps API plugins stuffs 13:53 < ybit> Yeah, I'll try to conjure something this afternoon when there's time 13:53 -!- jm|earth [n=jm@p57B9FD80.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:59 < kanzure> woot 13:59 < kanzure> motherboard arrives tonight 13:59 < kanzure> where the hell are my video cards? 14:11 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.211.159] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:14 -!- Democritus [n=bee@12.152.56.50] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:15 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:15 < kanzure> looks like the diybio group has sold out 14:16 < kanzure> mac's advertizing 'professional' social networking websites (that ignore professional web standards like FOAF and OpenID .. geeze, how professional) and Carolina for 'diy kits' 14:16 < kanzure> how is buying stuff from Carolina supposed to be 'diy' 14:17 < kanzure> although I admit that it is nice that they allow credit card transactions from noninstitutions, of course 14:37 < fenn> ffs stumbled over anders sandberg again 14:44 < kanzure> woah 14:44 < kanzure> I just called Tom Knight out on bullshitting 14:45 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Knight 14:45 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_frm/thread/86ad9a3f8ccb150e 14:49 < fenn> heh buybio 14:51 < kanzure> sounds like a prostitution service 14:52 < fenn> i wonder if tom knight knows about this thing called linux 14:53 < fenn> seriously though, if you need to buy a kit to do DNA extraction, well, that's worse than buying an arduino because you can't solder a circuit board 14:54 < kanzure> what? 14:54 < kanzure> that just blew up my mind 14:54 < kanzure> the analogy is starting to make sense 14:54 < fenn> its about the same level of difficulty 14:54 < fenn> put some cells in a mixture of phenol and .. ether? i forget exactly 14:55 < kanzure> something like "GET TOMATO. ADD SOAP. ADD BLEACH. STIR. BLEND. EXTRACT, YOU JERK." 14:55 < kanzure> sorry for caps 14:55 < fenn> chloroform, not ether 14:55 < fenn> wp to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_extraction 14:55 < kanzure> argh 14:55 < kanzure> these guys are jackasses 14:56 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/tree/browse_frm/thread/86ad9a3f8ccb150e/ffd7fd5339985faa?rnum=11&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fdiybio%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F86ad9a3f8ccb150e%3F#doc_2a3a2ea3a030a41b 14:56 < kanzure> "I agree. 14:56 < kanzure> In that vein, Intel got under my skin for the last time last week, too. So I rolled my own fab, complete with pvd, cvd and lithography machines culled from old banana skinning machines and used a low power chip design Andy Grove whispered to me. 14:56 < kanzure> I'll have the specs up on the wiki soon. No stopping humans now." 14:57 < nsh> this should prove entertaining 14:58 < fenn> wtf are they trying to do? 14:58 < kanzure> my response - ' 14:58 < kanzure> Comparing DNA extraction and running gels to running a microprocessor fabricator is retarded. But if you really want to be a jerk and argue the microprocessor side of things, let's go talk about how the industry started and how these guys were buying camera lenses down the street and shinning down on giant boards of wax to etch out giant circuits.' 14:58 < kanzure> gel extractions 14:58 < kanzure> not microproc fabricators 14:58 < kanzure> hell, this analogy *sucks* 14:58 < nsh> no, google, you *don't* need to know a little more about me before starting google groups 14:58 < nsh> ffs 14:59 < kanzure> heh 14:59 < nsh> heh, i log out, and suddenly it's not a twat anymore 15:00 < nsh> moral: don't be logged into a google account unecessarily 15:00 < kanzure> "Your body is producing DNA all the time, what do you think that shit flying out your whacker is made of? Damn it, folks, this isn't magic." 15:01 < nsh> do you know what also annoys me 15:01 < kanzure> hm? 15:02 < nsh> people who post that "you're setting up a false dichotomy between two extremes, when really most people compromise somewhere in the middle" bollock all the time 15:02 < nsh> yes, we are all aware of this. 15:03 * nsh swears some people think they are the only person to have realised that there are shades of grey and are on an evangelical mission to spread their divine revelation 15:03 < fenn> nsh: btw did i mention my divine revelation? 15:03 * nsh smiles 15:04 < fenn> the TRUTH is that there are no shades of grey! 15:04 < fenn> it's turtles all the way down my dear 15:04 < kanzure> mm, turtle soup 15:04 < nsh> thomas knight and talli just seem like dicks, tbh 15:05 < fenn> cranky usenet syndrome 15:05 < kanzure> tom is an MIT professor/oldie 15:05 * nsh nods 15:05 < kanzure> I guess they get to be jerks after all these years 15:05 < kanzure> I think they are actually groupies 15:05 < nsh> probably light-hearted 15:05 < kanzure> it looks like the diybio people are really just some lab group who are close friends 15:06 < kanzure> I have nothing against close friends 15:06 < kanzure> but it looks like they are doing "sekrit" work that they don't share on the mailing list 15:06 < fenn> so does iGEM just mail biochem kits to anyone who asks? how does this work exactly? 15:06 < kanzure> so naturally since they run things ... ;-) 15:06 < kanzure> don't know, I haven't investigated 15:06 < kanzure> it looks like they mail to 'labs' 15:06 < kanzure> but there has been high school teams before 15:08 < kanzure> ok, they've stopped emailing 15:09 * kanzure is a flood of mindforce :-) 15:12 < nsh> but, srsly 15:12 < nsh> what do you need for gel electrophoresis anyway... 15:12 < nsh> it's just voltage, buffer, and agarose ffs 15:12 < nsh> and EtBr 15:12 < kanzure> heh, EtBr :( 15:12 < nsh> is that hard to attain? 15:12 < fenn> there are other stains 15:12 < kanzure> you know what would be awesome? 15:13 < kanzure> if I could piss DNA staining dyes. 15:13 < kanzure> ok, that wouldn't be so awesome. nevermind. 15:13 -!- procto_ is now known as procto 15:13 < fenn> "SYBR Safe" for instance 15:13 < fenn> whatever that is 15:13 < nsh> you need ~.5 microlitres of EtBr per sample 15:13 < kanzure> fenn: you remember the silicon 'gels' that were on newscientist a while back? 15:13 < nsh> that's gotta be less than a penny 15:13 < kanzure> nsh: getting neurotoxins when you're not in a lab is not easy 15:14 < kanzure> I haven't checked 15:14 < fenn> nsh: it's not the cost its the cost of disposal (etbr is a strong mutagen) 15:14 < kanzure> nevermind, I'm lying 15:14 < nsh> oh, we just flush it (jk) 15:14 < kanzure> what happened to that great medical benefit package? 15:14 < kanzure> heh 15:14 < fenn> oh wait, you work in a lab, wtf am i teaching you for 15:14 < kanzure> I wish one of you would whack these guys into line 15:15 < kanzure> obviously I try and it doesn't work :-) 15:15 * nsh is too vitriolic 15:15 * fenn is too melancholic 15:15 < fenn> ack what is this http cache cleaner thing 15:15 * fenn grumbles about ubuntu being windows in disguise 15:15 < kanzure> "I think you should tone down your e-mails and think about how your enthusiasm could come across as arrogance some times." 15:16 < kanzure> I just got that as an email from John 15:16 < kanzure> as arrogance. 15:16 < kanzure> how is what I said arrogant ? 15:16 < kanzure> anybody? we're all smart guys, what did I say that's arrogant? 15:16 < nsh> you have to be right gently, kanzure 15:16 < kanzure> I see. 15:16 < nsh> being bluntly right is not well recieved 15:16 < kanzure> that's tricky 15:17 < fenn> i was just reading "how to have confidence and power" the other day.. 15:18 < fenn> there's a whole chapter about how not to win an argument 15:18 < fenn> basically the idea is you have to simply state obvious facts and let the other guy draw the obvious conclusion 15:18 < fenn> but if you ram the obvious conclusion down his throat, he'll only fight back harder in order to preserve his own ego (against all logic) 15:20 < nsh> it's about the interface 15:20 < kanzure> my approach to emails is "point by point" commenting instead of synthesis writing 15:20 < kanzure> 'synthesis' is where they might be willing to listen 15:20 < nsh> the interface between epistemologies is different to the bare facts at matter 15:20 < kanzure> point-by-point gets too hard to track all of the different emails together. 15:20 < kanzure> right 15:20 < kanzure> nsh: that's a hard barrier to get over 15:20 < nsh> it's a dance :-/ 15:21 < kanzure> I see it all the time in mostly everything I do 15:22 * nsh too 15:24 < kanzure> methinks this might end up with me having to teach everyone about linux, showing them how open source projects usually run and why that might possibly be more useful than being secretive, about dependencies and how much not having a DLL or lib file sucks, etc. 15:24 < kanzure> I can't believe these guys wouldn't have this background already though ... 15:26 < Jacco> Hi guys. 15:27 < nsh> moin, Jacco 15:27 < kanzure> Hey Jacco. 15:27 < kanzure> Rick James? 15:27 < kanzure> #gcc ##chemistry ##neuroscience #hplusroadmap #ai #defocus <-- is good 15:28 < kanzure> anything saying #gcc ;-) 15:28 < nsh> apart from that last chan. a greater hive of scum and villainy there n'er was 15:45 < kanzure> sucks how the more I look into the less awesome these people are 15:45 < kanzure> eli's officially off my list, even if he does truly want to solve these problems, 15:45 < kanzure> tom knight, wtf 15:48 -!- Splicer [n=p@h47n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:48 < kanzure> Has anyone sent an email to hplusroadmap since the 12th and has it gone through ? 15:57 < kanzure> maybe I am arrogant 15:58 < kanzure> I haven't considered this before 15:58 < kanzure> am I arrogant? 16:02 -!- Andares [n=Im@adsl-074-166-085-040.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:08 < kanzure> Hey. 16:10 < fenn> i wouldnt say arrogant so much as naive and ignorant :) 16:10 < kanzure> me? 16:10 < kanzure> I think I'm ignorant of where the hell they're coming from 16:10 < fenn> hmm, what was 'john' referring to in particular? did he even say? 16:11 < kanzure> nope 16:11 < kanzure> 'overall' I suspect 16:13 < fenn> you often appear to have 'the answer' and are ramming it down the reader's throat 16:13 * Splicer agrees 16:13 < fenn> when the reader notices an obvious technical flaw that would make the whole idea fail completely, it just leaves you looking like an ass 16:14 < kanzure> technical flaw? 16:14 < kanzure> the idea is to fix the technical flaws, no? 16:15 < fenn> um, here's one example: growing algae for biodiesel to make rocket fuel on orbit 16:15 < nsh> what was wrong with that ide? 16:15 < nsh> *idea 16:15 < kanzure> yeah, it's not like I have the actual reactions for that 16:16 < kanzure> so how could it be a technical flaw? 16:16 < fenn> hmm 16:16 < kanzure> I know I'm being an ass here 16:16 < fenn> 'here' meaning diybio list? 16:16 < kanzure> yes 16:16 < kanzure> but in general, proposing something like that, and then leaving them hanging, is probably bad practice 16:16 < kanzure> I'd have to do immediate followup with ways of making the protocols and investigating how to go about doing it 16:17 < kanzure> but explaining to them how to search for information is like holding their hand :( 16:17 < kanzure> I wouldn't mind it,but I'll look like even more of an ass 16:18 < Splicer> you bring in sci fi arguments/solutions into discussions without thinking twice about it.. you do it often 16:18 < Splicer> and you do it into context where people are trying to get actual things done 16:19 < kanzure> you think I'm not trying to get things done? 16:19 < Splicer> *contexts 16:19 < Splicer> I'm not sure you know what that entails any more 16:19 < kanzure> should I just start appending a "how to actually do this" to all of my messages and make it simpler ? 16:19 < Splicer> but that's the thing... you never know that 16:19 < kanzure> if I knew how, the _exact_ how for everything, I don't think I'd need to be talking 16:20 < kanzure> yeah, but I have the rough outline 16:20 < kanzure> and the general frameworks I've been using don't suck 16:20 < Splicer> you hava a millionm of them 16:20 < kanzure> the 'epistemology' perhaps ;-) 16:20 -!- Jacco [n=Im@adsl-074-166-085-040.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:20 < kanzure> not so, it all lines up pretty well 16:21 < kanzure> for instance: me talking about neurotagging in here one day 16:21 < Splicer> it all falls apart as soon as you actually would take time to try to atually make one of them 16:21 < kanzure> and a week later ybit finding a link to an implementation :) 16:21 < kanzure> hah 16:21 < kanzure> then how is it that these things are working and things are rolling? 16:21 < Splicer> what is rolling? 16:21 < kanzure> for instance, the biotech toolkit 16:22 < kanzure> well, the community support isn't, but that's an education/support issue, not a technical issue 16:22 < Splicer> does it work now... the last version I saw didn't 16:22 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/gitweb.cgi 16:22 * fenn hides 16:22 * kanzure isn't interested in getting into this discussion 16:22 < kanzure> I was more talking about the approach to presenting the ideas 16:23 < Splicer> it's easy to braindump ideas.. everyone can do that.. but people dont 16:23 < kanzure> fenn: what do you think about the 'step by step howto' appended to all of my outgoing messages? And then I can clearly highlight "this general fuzzy area is where I would hope you guys would like to spend some time thinking about" 16:23 < kanzure> show them my maps and such. 16:24 < fenn> i'm not convinced that's the problem, but it might help to clarify what precisely you're talking about 16:24 < fenn> i mean, you arent talking about mining salt and refining petroleum into lab reagents 16:25 < fenn> but it was never explicitly stated what level of "diy" you envisioned 16:26 < kanzure> the definition I sent to the diybio group today was not so much diy from scratch (which is, yes, what I want) but rather dependency information -- some degree of not letting proprietary stuff be a single point of failure in your system 16:26 < kanzure> erm, and overall I don't quite see the connection to how to write good email 16:27 < fenn> ah i just read the xml/arduino post 16:27 < fenn> can't seem to get google groups to display threads like i want 16:29 < kanzure> re: displaying threads, I wish they did hierarchical threads for gmail. I'd actually use the web interface then. 16:35 < kanzure> I think I should get advice from #electronics about arduino before I go around referencing it 16:35 < kanzure> I haven't actually used it, but the local robot group and actlab and others have brought it up (live) so I suspect it might be as it says it is 16:36 < kanzure> just haven't used it yet :-) 16:37 * kanzure is still impressed with Eric Hunting 16:39 < fenn> the thing about arduino is it's a hardware platform and a software platform too, but you can mix and match with other hardware/software 16:39 < fenn> so when you say 'arduino' its ambiguous :( 16:39 < kanzure> I see. 16:39 < fenn> like if you could run mac OS on any computer 16:39 < fenn> then what does 'mac' mean 16:39 < kanzure> but isn't that the point 16:39 < kanzure> even if it is ambiguous, either way works 16:39 < kanzure> for instance, both the software and hardware is available 16:39 < kanzure> depends on the context in which you employ it, no? 16:40 < fenn> yeah, on the whole i'm quite pleased with the arduino project 16:40 < fenn> it still smacks of prepackaged snacks though 16:41 < fenn> shrug 16:41 < fenn> i just get annoyed when someone doesnt know which way to turn a bolt 16:42 < kanzure> true enough 16:43 < kanzure> was arduino from Make or did they make it because they got on Make? 16:46 < fenn> uhh.. Make doesnt actually make anything :( 16:46 < kanzure> the brand thing 16:47 < kanzure> by 'make it because' I mean 'make it big' 16:47 < kanzure> heh, ambiguity 16:47 < fenn> hm there's just a pun waiting to happen with this "AVR reactor" (german nuclear reactor in the 60's) 16:47 < kanzure> I don't see it 16:47 < kanzure> is this an Atmel AVR reference? 16:47 < kanzure> since we're talking about arduino? 16:48 < fenn> arduino is based on an avr chip, which provides 99% of the functionality 16:55 < kanzure> nsh: Are you still around? And would you be willing to interpret some Dutch code for me? http://svglbc.datenverdrahten.de/?code=funktion_integrieren&znr=on 16:56 * nsh wonders why an american guy wants a british guy in finland to interpret dutch code from germany 16:57 < fenn> google translate works ok 16:57 < fenn> if you copy/paste 16:57 * nsh has verdict: it probably draws stuff 16:58 < kanzure> just looking for the vertical axis specification 16:58 < kanzure> since I'm trying to plot a function that goes beyond the range and domain it instantiates 16:58 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:58 < kanzure> thanks fenn 16:59 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:00 < kanzure> ah, it's German. 17:01 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 17:07 < kanzure> "`Arbitrary does not mean random or meaningless. Arbitrary merely means without previous dependency.` http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_Philosophy " hm 17:10 * fenn glazes over 17:10 < fenn> somebody turn me before i burn! 17:11 * kanzure turns fenn 17:11 < kanzure> szzzzzzzz 17:15 < fenn> ok i'm done 17:15 < fenn> g'nite 17:19 < kanzure> night 18:49 -!- fenn_ [n=pz@adsl-76-251-84-68.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:49 -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: heybryan server will be down as of 2008-07-12 | Semi-intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXKbzbeipmI http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/ | diy bio tools: http://biohack.sf.net/ | Automated societal knowledge (put it to work): http://heybryan.org/exp.html | Channel wiki: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ | F/OSS re: Kurzweil: http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ 18:49 -!- Topic set by nsh [] [Tue Jul 15 03:32:49 2008] 18:49 [Users #hplusroadmap] 18:49 [ fenn ] [ freer ] [ kanzure ] [ Overand ] [ procto ] [ ybit] 18:49 [ fenn_] [ jm|earth] [ kanzure_] [ Phreedom] [ Splicer] 18:49 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 11 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal] 18:49 -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008 18:50 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 44 secs 19:02 -!- fenn [n=pz@adsl-99-133-184-7.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:54 -!- Democritus [n=ard@c-68-49-79-239.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:32 < kanzure> Hrm. 20:32 < kanzure> things did not go well 20:32 < kanzure> somebody posted and called it a flamewar :( it clearly was not a flamewar 20:34 < kanzure_> +++ 21:11 < kanzure> Okay. Let's just try working backwards. If you were a quadcore, where would you be? 21:56 < ybit> hehe 22:05 < ybit> didn't read the full log, but the only part which seems like you are attacking someone is 22:05 < ybit> Comparing DNA extraction and running gels to running a microprocessor 22:05 < ybit> fabricator is retarded. But if you really want to be a jerk and argue 22:05 < ybit> the microprocessor side of things 22:06 < ybit> """ ^ 22:06 < ybit> but other than that, it seems like you were right on target 22:07 < kanzure> apparently that guy that I was replying to there was being sarcastic and so on 22:07 < kanzure> here's his message 22:08 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/tree/browse_frm/thread/86ad9a3f8ccb150e/ffd7fd5339985faa?rnum=11&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fdiybio%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F86ad9a3f8ccb150e%3F#doc_2a3a2ea3a030a41b 22:08 < kanzure> #14 22:09 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/tree/browse_frm/thread/86ad9a3f8ccb150e/676fbbfe06da4a86?rnum=21&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fdiybio%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F86ad9a3f8ccb150e%3F#doc_3b2d57d6d81dfd4e 22:09 < kanzure> and #27 22:10 < kanzure> anyway, ybit - did you check out any of the Google maps APIing stuffs ? 22:10 < ybit> ick 22:10 < kanzure> to me or him? 22:10 < ybit> him 22:11 -!- Democritus [n=ard@c-68-49-79-239.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:11 < kanzure> heh :) 22:11 < ybit> doing it now, installing some dependencies 22:11 < kanzure> I'm sure I could have handled it better 22:11 < kanzure> but I didn't :( 22:11 < ybit> oh well, it's obvious you just want what's best for everyone 22:11 < kanzure> is it 22:11 < kanzure> ? 22:11 < kanzure> sarcasm? 22:11 < ybit> i'm being serious 22:16 < kanzure> This is so very weird. I have every single component of everything I've bought for the desktop: every single screw, every single piece of cardboard, all of the hardware, all of the documentation, manuals and CDs, but no microprocessor. 22:16 < kanzure> while my thoroughness was admirable, it's completely failed me 22:18 < ybit> same here, except i need a power supply now :P 22:19 < kanzure> is it possible that I shipped the microprocessor back to new egg with the dead motherboard? 22:19 < kanzure> I clearly remember taking the microprocessor off of the board and putting it into a separate retainer case 22:19 < kanzure> and also putting it into one of the boxes I've triple searched in the last few minutes 22:21 < ybit> I dug a hole to plant a future peach tree, but I couldn't remember where the seed was placed :P 22:21 < ybit> that's my story of losing something today 22:21 < ybit> yeah, it's lame, i know :P 22:21 < kanzure> losing a quadcore is the ultimate in lameness 22:21 * ybit drools 22:21 < kanzure> but it's lost 22:22 < ybit> if you live in a dorm, it may have been stolen? 22:22 < Splicer> if you bought the pc as parts: is it on the pack slip? 22:22 < kanzure> two potential times it could have been stolen 22:22 < kanzure> pack slip? 22:23 < kanzure> (1) it could have been stolen while it was in the box in the trailer. This is unlikely since it was in a box in the back of the trailer underneath everything else. 22:23 < kanzure> (2) if it was loaded in one of the first few trips, the door was unlocked once or twice only 22:23 < kanzure> however, again, it was underneath everything else and I wasn't gone for more than 2 or 3 minutes 22:24 < kanzure> and stealing only a microprocessor at the very bottom? and leaving everything in order? 22:24 < kanzure> Splicer: what is this 'pack slip' that you speak of? 22:24 < Splicer> i reread the post.. you didn't buy it now.. so no packaging slip(if that's what it's called) 22:25 < kanzure> what is a packaging slip though? 22:25 < kanzure> you mean a receipt? 22:25 < Splicer> when you buy something, say online... yeah, but it's not really a receipt.. it's the slip that says what was sent. 22:25 < kanzure> ah, yeah, I had it earlier 22:25 < kanzure> so I know I (should) have it 22:27 < Splicer> ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packing_slip ) 22:30 < ybit> ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhd ) 22:30 < ybit> :) 22:30 < kanzure> I do very thorough searches 22:30 < kanzure> I know this thing must still exist on this planet 22:30 < kanzure> so I've narrowed down 99.9999% of the galaxy 22:42 < ybit> you came down my street and didn't tell me!? ;) 22:42 * ybit is waiting on this program to finishing compiling 22:42 < ybit> virtuoso, that is 23:08 < kanzure> virtuoso? 23:20 -!- jm|earth [n=jm@p57B9FD80.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]