--- Day changed Sun Jul 20 2008 01:05 < kanzure> http://followfornow.com/toc 01:05 * kanzure points out that Roy found me, I didn't find him. 01:46 < ybit> i'm guessing you were interviewed? 01:50 < kanzure> No. 01:50 < kanzure> Just that he found me. 01:50 < kanzure> Apparently he's in the Austin area. 01:50 < kanzure> a lot of those people in that TOC are good names to know 01:50 < kanzure> for instance, I came across Howard a few years back because of his work re: well.com 01:50 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_WELL 01:50 < kanzure> 'The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, normally shortened to The WELL, is one of the oldest virtual communities in continuous operation. It currently has about 4,000 members. It is best known for its Internet forums, but also provides email, shell accounts, and web pages. The discussion and topics on the WELL range from the deeply serious to the generally silly, depending on the nature and interests of the participants.' 01:51 < kanzure> 'The WELL was started by Stewart Brand and Larry Brilliant in 1985, and the name is partially a reference to some of Brand's earlier projects, including the Whole Earth Catalog. T' 01:51 < kanzure> Stewart Brand == http://longnow.org/ and http://web.archive.org/ 01:51 < kanzure> Whole Earth Catalog == http://kk.org/ http://wired.com/ http://edge.org/ 01:52 * kanzure decided to cut down the music he listens to the portions that he repetitively listens at. http://heybryan.org/aspiemusic/ 01:58 < kanzure> Whole Earth also implicates Bucky Fuller 01:59 < kanzure> and as you'll note, fenn takes a liking to some of Fuller's work 01:59 < kanzure> especially re: hextatic 01:59 < kanzure> which is partly the reason he's here in the first place 01:59 < kanzure> hm 02:08 < ybit> so you listen to japanese music 02:08 < ybit> i get in the mood often as well 02:09 < kanzure> mostly because I don't understand it 02:10 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/music2/Macross%20Plus%20-%20Information%20High.mp3 02:10 < kanzure> I'll have to throw up a streaming server one day. 02:10 < ybit> heh, right, it's easy work through. it's similar to just an instrumental piece playing in the background 02:11 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/music2/X%20Japan%20-%20Silent%20jealousy.mp3 02:11 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/music2/Pokemon%20-%20Japanese%20Theme%20Song.mp3 02:11 < kanzure> That's about it. 02:12 < ybit> oh wow, 02:12 < ybit> i have 4mb left on my hard drive o_O 02:12 < kanzure> yeah .. 02:12 < kanzure> all of those databases ;-) 02:13 < ybit> hehe, it may may be 02:13 < kanzure> too much ASCII, not enough code 02:13 < ybit> waiting on du -a | sort -n to tell me exactly what though 02:13 < ybit> ah 02:13 < kanzure> I've found I like the graphical disk visualization tools 02:13 < ybit> my virtual drive 02:13 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-06-16_the_vild.png 02:14 < ybit> i like this because it's quicker 02:14 < ybit> i like this song btw 02:14 < kanzure> which one? 02:14 < ybit> it reminds me of my partying days 02:15 < ybit> not saying i wouldn't party still now, just don't have as much time 02:15 < kanzure> time is created, not destroyed 02:15 < ybit> staying awake destroys sleep :) 02:16 < kanzure> ybit: pm 02:20 < kanzure> another one just while I'm linkbombing music, http://heybryan.org/music2/GammaRay%20-%20CD2%20-%2001%20-%20Rebellion%20in%20dreamland.mp3 02:20 < ybit> actually the reason partying hard has stopped is because, for me, it's a matter of wasting brain cells or getting something accomplished 02:20 < kanzure> heh 02:20 < kanzure> at least you've "been there, done that" 02:23 < ybit> oh have i :) 02:27 < ybit> btw, not quite sure this is the place to discuss me past 02:27 < ybit> so i'll change subjects 02:29 < kanzure> eh? 02:29 < kanzure> to .. what? 02:31 < ybit> anything but that of course :) 02:31 < kanzure> are you a wanted criminal? :) 02:32 < ybit> heh, naah 03:47 -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:49 -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:59 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:02 -!- Splicer [n=p@h215n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [] 07:08 < fenn> re: du | sort: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filelight 07:09 < fenn> i recently re-discovered the whole earth catalog myself 07:09 < fenn> they are gradually putting all the back issues back online 07:10 < fenn> apparently stewart brand was the first to publish gerard o'neill's work, because he was the only one interested :\ 07:11 < fenn> "So the Whole Earth Catalog is responsible for the colonization of space." http://www.nas.nasa.gov/Services/Education/SpaceSettlement/CoEvolutionBook/Interview.HTML 07:38 -!- nsh [n=nsh@d85-194-245-82.cust.wlannet.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:18 -!- nsh- [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:26 -!- Democritus [n=ard@c-68-49-79-239.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:33 -!- nsh [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:01 -!- Democritus [n=ard@c-68-49-79-239.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:01 -!- Democritus [n=ard@c-68-49-79-239.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:15 -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9C705.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:01 -!- Democritus [n=ard@c-68-49-79-239.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 13:50 < kanzure> fenn: nice interview 13:50 < fenn> yar 13:50 < fenn> i am reading the letters sent in by readers, its rather painful 13:55 < kanzure> negative? 13:56 < kanzure> link? 13:57 < fenn> click on table of contents and then debate 13:58 < fenn> surprisingly paul ehrlich (most cynical tech-hater environmentalist ever) actually seemed to like the idea 13:59 < ybit> well, f' that 13:59 < ybit> the second life transhumanist meeting 14:00 < ybit> my voice chat doesn't work in SL 14:00 < fenn> most of the negative letters are based on errors in reasoning/scientific knowledge, so they're not really worth reading (unless you enjoy reading that sort of thing) 14:01 < kanzure> ybit: I said 'fuck that' to SL transhuman-groups too ... Anders promised me an IRC gateway to the SL chat, but no. 14:02 < kanzure> fenn: prospects don't look good 14:02 * kanzure goes downstairs to grab a bite 14:03 < ybit> + litesim would be the way to go as far as virtual worlds are concerned 14:04 < ybit> opensim has too much bloat, bugs, and .net specific crap 14:05 < fenn> here's a sample: "It is impossible, using available technology, or any likely to be available in the next generation, to refine metals and do other heavy industrial operations in space, or on the moon's surface, and any technology we ever develop to do it will be enormously expensive. The reason is that in a vacuum there is no medium to carry away excess heat. A rough figure often given is that it takes about 50 tons of water (and no one has estimated how many tons of air) to make one ton of steel." 14:06 < fenn> and then a torrent of "we should fix earth first!11" 14:07 -!- nsh- is now known as nsh 14:07 < fenn> i'd love to be able to point to some nasa experiment proving them wrong of course, but that doesn't seem to be on their agenda 14:07 < fenn> (nasa's agenda) 14:20 < fenn> you can tell this guy's a real team player: "Space is not Heaven. It is not even Disneyland. It is an environment as hostile and deadly as the core of a nuclear reactor or the inside of a tank of nerve gas." 14:21 < fenn> oh well i thought it was funny 15:12 < kanzure> ' I would think that in the long run, the tendency toward community diversity, the diversity of governments, diversity of the ways people choose to live, the kinds of architecture that they choose to have, and so on, would be enormous.' 15:16 < kanzure> Israel comes to mind 15:19 < fenn> as the sort of culture you expect to come about in space colonies? 15:20 < fenn> in some ways i agree, as far as the high tech farmer aspect, but then there won't be millions of angry arabs surrounding your space colony either 15:20 < kanzure> no 15:21 < kanzure> Israel was artificial, no? 15:21 < kanzure> I was thinking that you need a very motivated group of people that really want to get out 15:21 < fenn> oh, that's a given 15:22 < fenn> i mean, there are so many people that would jump for the opportunity it's not even funny 15:22 < kanzure> 'After World War I, the League of Nations approved the British Mandate of Palestine with the intent of creating a "national home for the Jewish people."[7] ' 15:22 < kanzure> right, but this is about ~8 million people 15:22 < kanzure> unfortunately they already have their home now :( 15:22 < fenn> sure, until nuclear bombs get smuggled in 15:23 < nsh> i wish they'd found them a national home in alaska somewhere 15:23 < kanzure> until? 15:23 < kanzure> in Alaska? 15:23 < kanzure> why not just put them in the ocean for that matter? 15:23 < nsh> yeah, that would have been much better for the future-history of the world 15:23 < fenn> put who in the ocean? 15:23 < nsh> (alaska, not the ocean) 15:23 < nsh> i wonder... 15:24 < nsh> if we could convince overwhelmingly people of the multiple worlds interpretation of qm 15:24 < kanzure> fenn: the jews 15:24 < nsh> we could set up a random number generator with three equally weighted results 15:24 < kanzure> nsh: please, no MWI in here :( 15:24 < kanzure> it hurts me too much 15:24 < fenn> kanzure: they didnt have that idea, much less the technology to implement it, in 1945 15:25 < nsh> in one world, all the jews get killed, in another, all the arabs get killed, and in another, both 15:25 < kanzure> I know. 15:25 < nsh> each would be fine by virtue of quantum immortality 15:25 < kanzure> nsh: let's not kill 15:25 * nsh smiles 15:25 < kanzure> how about we kill YOU? or anyone who proposes killing each other 15:25 < kanzure> hm 15:25 * kanzure ducks 15:25 < fenn> according to MWI that means everyone's dead somewhere or other 15:26 < nsh> yeah, it's a win-win 15:26 < fenn> they should have sent the jews to finland 15:29 * nsh wishes his teeth were less sensitive andor the milk less cold 15:30 < nsh> gah, this paper is terribly-written: http://ppp.unipv.it/Collana/Pages/Libri/Saggi/Volta%20and%20the%20History%20of%20Electricity/V&H%20Sect4/V&H%20365-376.pdf 15:33 < kanzure> hm, symbolic metrology? 15:34 < nsh> representing physical quantities by symbolic structures rather than bare numbers 15:36 < kanzure> physical quantities or physical materials? 15:37 < nsh> the one i wrote 15:38 < kanzure> :( 15:40 < fenn> nsh: units are your friend :) 15:40 < fenn> then you get into GD&T which sucks 15:41 < nsh> GD&T? 15:41 < fenn> there's a whole science of metrology, with much 'tacit knowledge' meaning its not even possible to explain how to do it 15:41 < fenn> geometric dimensioning and tolerancing 15:41 < kanzure> not possible to explain how? 15:42 < fenn> well, i'm specifically thinknig of how these soviet scientists were measuring the damping coefficient of sapphire crystals by hanging from a spider silk thread lubricated 'just so' with pork grease 15:43 < fenn> the americans couldnt get the same value until they visited the lab and got hands on instruction 15:43 * nsh expresses confusement 15:43 < fenn> not having been there, i can't explain it :) 15:43 < kanzure> I'm having trouble remembering 15:43 < kanzure> just what it is that I was planning on doing right now 15:44 < fenn> you were remembering where the CPU was 15:44 < kanzure> still no CPU :( 15:44 < kanzure> but something project related 15:44 < kanzure> I guess I was working on the brain visualization stuff 15:45 < fenn> say, isnt all the google maps stuff rather... 2d? 15:45 < kanzure> there's also Google Earth 15:45 < kanzure> and fMRI data sets on the net for 3D reconstruction 15:45 < kanzure> plus the ontology and 20 micrometer study that the Allen Institute graciously gave in their data.zip file 15:46 < fenn> uh, i just dont really get why you need or want a 2d map of the brain 15:46 < kanzure> more the idea of users seeing it in their browser 15:46 < fenn> its like having a 1d street map 15:46 < kanzure> and being able to tag their psychological-stuffs and correlate with other users 15:46 < kanzure> it's not like this map is telling them where to go... 15:47 < kanzure> so calling it a map is odd anyway :-) 15:47 < fenn> hrmph 15:47 < kanzure> so the problem is that it's not all that functional 15:47 < kanzure> it's just more data 15:47 < fenn> right 15:47 < kanzure> I was hoping I could use this as a 'computational scaffold' 15:47 < kanzure> so that if I was to sit here with some biofeedback stuff 15:47 < kanzure> I could at least look at some fancy computer recipes for targetting regions of the model 15:48 < kanzure> or correlate it to BibTeX or other users and their data 15:48 < kanzure> while it would be awesome if it works, the implementation details sound flaky 15:48 < kanzure> does that make sense? 15:48 < kanzure> I'm afraid it might not, and that's why I'm sitting here doing nothing 15:50 < kanzure> one interesting result would be to see if it could be used to train neural tissue slices in specific ways 15:50 < kanzure> sort of? 15:51 < kanzure> trading the different ways of training cultures as 'data sets' (or 'training sets') which is somewhat already done with the ANN peoples (the simple ANN bullshit stuff (handwritten rec, OCR, ..)) 15:53 < kanzure> oh, that's right 15:53 < kanzure> I'm more interested in life support systems 15:54 * kanzure realizes that these data sets aren't necessarily usable in that way 15:58 < fenn> not unless you can measure the connection strengths 15:59 < kanzure> don't know if connection data is relevant here 16:00 < kanzure> originally I was hoping to use this for the 'sustained attention' setup stuff 16:00 < kanzure> which is still practical of course, but it's sort of a mini bootstrap problem 16:00 < kanzure> granted, not one as painful as skdb 16:00 < kanzure> just have to go get the hardware *first* 16:00 < kanzure> and then throw together the data 16:01 < kanzure> fenn: btw, democritus, the fellow in here the other day, has supposedly received $200k for 'viral banking' 16:01 < kanzure> in VC funding 16:03 < nsh> hmm 16:03 < nsh> physics is so wrong :-/ 16:05 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@66.112.232.74] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:11 < fenn> what is 'viral banking' and why would someone invest in it? 16:13 * nsh is also interested in the answers to those questions 16:27 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@66.112.232.74] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:46 < kanzure> yep, too much psychology 17:46 < kanzure> I guess I shouldn't attend to attention 17:48 < nsh> hmm? 17:48 < kanzure> I guess I assuming that I could use autism as a way to get to attention 17:48 < kanzure> +was somewhere in there :) 17:54 < nsh> ah 18:02 -!- Splicer [n=p@h3n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:47 -!- nsh [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:51 < kanzure> fenn: somebody wants to write a grant proposal for your writozyme 18:53 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@195.216.211.159] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:29 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:01 -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9C705.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:30 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:43 < kanzure> I'm open to suggestions as to where to find a new relayhost for heybryan.org outgoing email :-/ 21:43 < kanzure> http://apogeenet.net/ is the isp but there's no information regarding relayhosts available on the site 21:43 < kanzure> in fact there's basically nothing on the site 23:39 < ybit> kanzure, the only reason you don't want to do 3d simulations is because of the immense resources needed? 23:40 < kanzure> more or less :-) 23:41 < kanzure> but I wouldn't mind it 23:41 < kanzure> I just don't see short term payoff 23:41 < kanzure> payoff as in results that are functionally relevant, not money or anything 23:48 < kanzure> fenn has previously tried to convince me of otherwise 23:49 < kanzure> don't know if we want to bring up those discussions again ? I mean, I'm probably wrong 23:50 < ybit> def. bring them up again :) 23:50 < kanzure> as in, convince me 23:50 < kanzure> heh' 23:53 < ybit> me? not me, i could attempt to convince you if i wasn't tired, but it would just be laughable right now 23:53 < ybit> bb soon