--- Day changed Sun Aug 03 2008 02:20 -!- Depucelator [n=Depucela@c-71-195-30-110.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:44 -!- tmccabe271 [n=toiwgowg@adsl-75-36-170-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:45 < kanzure> Hey tmccabe271. 02:46 < kanzure> I don't actually know if anyone else is up, but they certainly should be if they aren't. 02:47 < tmccabe271> Are they on PDT? 02:47 < kanzure> A few of them are in Sweden, another is in Boston, etc. 02:47 < kanzure> nsh may or may not be a bot, I'm not entirely sure yet 02:48 < kanzure> Oh. 02:49 < kanzure> tmccabe271: Since we use the book so much, you might like the commentary on TSiN - it's the last link in the /topic with 'fernhout' in the URL. 03:59 < willPow3r> why should we be up? 04:00 < willPow3r> kanzure 04:18 < kanzure> because I said so 04:18 < kanzure> :) 04:21 < willPow3r> heh 04:21 < willPow3r> always a good reason 04:22 < kanzure> indeed 04:23 < kanzure> hm, "objective morality" came up tonight 04:36 < willPow3r> how exciting 04:39 < willPow3r> do you ever sleep? 04:44 < fenn> nevar! sleep is for the weak! 04:45 < willPow3r> all humans are weak 04:45 < willPow3r> they must be destroyed 04:57 -!- tmccabe271 [n=toiwgowg@adsl-75-36-170-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:15 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:17 < kanzure> so I think they really want to do a startup around web software for future scenario prediction 05:17 < kanzure> but why would anybody pay for that 05:19 < kanzure> and they're all largely ignorant of the architectures mentioned in here and such 05:19 < kanzure> so that's not goo 05:19 < kanzure> good 05:19 < kanzure> anyway, 05:19 < kanzure> I'm meeting Eliezer tomorrow. 05:55 -!- biopunk [n=p@h135n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:56 -!- biopunk [n=p@h135n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:13 -!- biopunk [n=p@h135n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [] 06:33 -!- nsh- [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:39 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:50 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:56 -!- nsh- [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:07 -!- nsh- [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:11 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:54 -!- nsh- [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:28 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:35 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:35 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:54 -!- nsh- [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:01 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:45 -!- nsh- is now known as nsh 11:48 -!- nsh [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:09 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:43 < ybit> kanzure, would you do speak at the imminst sunday evening update? 12:44 < ybit> otherwise it probably won't be worth watching 12:45 < ybit> really if anyone in here would speak, it would be interesting 14:40 < ybit> no takers? 14:41 < willPow3r> i could speak, but it wouldn't be on the right subject 14:42 < kanzure> hm. When? 14:47 < kanzure> (2008-08-03 12:24:47) wheels: Heh, "You thought PDFs are bad? Now you can upload them to Scribd and make them even worse by displaying them in a shitty Flash applet. Scribd has a distinction of being the Y Combinator startup with highest chances of making the Web even worse than it is now. I seriously hope they never succeed." 14:48 < kanzure> http://www.kizoo.com 15:38 < kanzure> http://twobits.net/discuss/chapter2 <-- a good explanation of Eugen Leitl 15:38 < kanzure> http://eugen.leitl.org/ 15:39 < kanzure> "There is still a role for technical invention, but it is strongly distinguished from political, legal, cultural, or social interventions. For most transhumanists, there is no rhetoric here, no sophistry, just the pure truth of “it works”: the pure, undeniable, unstoppable, and undeconstructable reality of technology." 15:39 < kanzure> ' For the transhumanist attitude, the reality of “working code” has a reality that other assertions about the world do not. Extreme transhumanism replaces the life-world with the world of the computer, where bad (ethically bad) ideas won’t compile. Less-staunch versions of transhumanism simply allow the confusion to operate opportunistically: the progress of technology is unquestionable (omniscient), and only its eff 15:50 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/transhumanism_def.html has been updated 16:01 < fenn> heheh they dont compile until you build a fuzzy compiler 16:03 < fenn> this reminds me of john mccarthy's take on "calculemus" 16:03 < kanzure> leibniz's "calculemus" and 'let us calculate' ? 16:03 < fenn> ya 16:04 < kanzure> twobits.net looks like something we might want to get some first mover advantage on re: the comments on each of the pages 16:04 < kanzure> oh look 16:05 < kanzure> crap crap crap 16:05 < kanzure> 'P2P Foundation » Blog Archive » Book of the Week: Christopher Kelty’s Two Bits says: [...] You can buy and read the book here, and we recommend reading the conclusions on the [...]' 16:05 < kanzure> hm 16:05 < kanzure> I don't know if this means this is from P2P Foundation or not 16:05 < kanzure> yeah, that was a comment 16:05 < kanzure> nevermind 16:05 < kanzure> but I just emailed it to the p2pfoundation guys anyway 16:05 < kanzure> heh' 16:05 < fenn> i'm still slogging through their heavy use of CSS 16:06 < kanzure> stupid desgin 16:06 < kanzure> design 16:06 < kanzure> there's a PDF methinks 16:07 < fenn> ah fuck it.. /me switches to dillo 16:07 < kanzure> http://twobits.net/pub/Kelty-TwoBits.pdf 16:08 < fenn> some guy was at my house expounding the virtues of flash based photo galleries.. i was about to stab him 16:10 < kanzure> fenn: you're a good man. 16:10 < fenn> good for him that i have restraint at least :) 16:11 < fenn> it's interesting that for some people literally every thing that comes out of their mouth is wrong 16:12 < fenn> statistically they'd have to get something right every once in a while on accident 16:14 < fenn> i'm having a hard time focusing on this twobits book 16:15 < kanzure> 'recursive public' sounds like fractal.html 16:16 < kanzure> "recursive publics" => skdb 16:16 < kanzure> or the other way around or something 16:17 < fenn> http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/future/objectivity.html 16:26 < fenn> one could use space colonies as literal petri dishes for social science experiments 16:26 < fenn> the only problem is getting people to believe the results 16:27 < kanzure> screw that 16:27 < kanzure> to believe that space colonies are feasible 16:27 < kanzure> that's a good start 16:27 < fenn> bah 16:27 < fenn> feasible in what sense? 16:28 < kanzure> that i.e., it can work so let's go make it happen 16:28 < kanzure> "wha? that will require hundreds of billions of dollars!" 16:29 < fenn> there's basically two arguments: 1) it costs too much and only whitey will benefit 2) i'm an ecologist and ecosystems are so amazingly awesome that you just have to listen to me when i say it won't ever work 16:30 < fenn> i'd eat algae for a year if i had to.. i dont know how anyone can buy argument #2 16:30 < fenn> #1 is a little harder because it involves getting people to actually open their eyes 16:31 < fenn> fuck i dont need to be thinking about this 16:31 < fenn> kanzure help, what do i do? 16:31 -!- Depucelator [n=Depucela@c-71-195-30-110.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:32 < ybit> re "When?" 5pmCST 16:32 < fenn> even if i have the world's best personal fabricator i'm not going to be able to put a rotovator in orbit 16:33 < fenn> damn this muddy gravity well! 16:36 < kanzure> hm 16:36 < kanzure> fenn: what do you need to be thinking about? 16:36 < fenn> the depressing overall situation of space development 16:36 < kanzure> oh, right 16:37 < kanzure> re: damning the gravity well 16:37 < kanzure> I know this sounds completely insane but I've considered blowing the planet up 16:37 < kanzure> in a well-controlled way 16:37 < kanzure> drilling nukes down through the surface and mantle 16:37 < kanzure> just enough to have giant chunks of the earth split up and have less of a gravity well 16:37 < fenn> sure i dont see any problems with that at all 16:37 < kanzure> well, we'd have to be damn sure we can be prepared for space survival 16:38 < kanzure> atmosphere will probably vanish 16:38 < fenn> nukes arent that powerful 16:39 < kanzure> hrm, there's a finite amount of plutonium or uranium or something 16:39 < fenn> you can make a fusion bomb almost arbitrarily large 16:39 < kanzure> and this might not be enough for the number of detonations or yield that would be required 16:39 < fenn> but i dont think it would result in blowing "chunks" off 16:39 < kanzure> what do you think would happen? 16:40 < fenn> rock behaves as a liquid or dust at those sort of scales 16:40 < kanzure> wait, if you have that much fusionable supplies 16:40 < kanzure> just do Project Orion 16:40 < kanzure> the real Project Orion, not the fake 16:40 < fenn> i think it would make a big crater with a very large nuber of pieces a couple hundred meters max 16:40 < fenn> heh orion is a joke 16:40 < fenn> both of them 16:41 < kanzure> how was the first one a joke? 16:41 < fenn> it's so wasteful 16:41 < fenn> that many bombs would cost more than just launching that much stuff on chemical rockets 16:41 < fenn> i still cant figure out why they never developed nuclear rockets in the cold war 16:42 < fenn> maybe it just wasnt necessary 16:46 < fenn> s/developed/built/ 16:46 < kanzure> how about tractor beam the moon and make it crash into the planet? 16:47 < fenn> if you have a tractor beam just beam your damn self up 16:49 < fenn> iran has a nuclear program, and a space program, and dont seem to be constrained by conventional politics 16:49 < fenn> hmmmm 16:50 < kanzure> send in a resume 16:50 < kanzure> make sure you grow your beard out first 16:55 < fenn> Ali Mahmudi Mimand the Chief engineer in the Iranian Ministries Satellites and Aeronautics Industry had passed away under mysterious circumstances that have not been explained. He was called the "father of Iran's Missiles". 16:57 < fenn> you'd think china would be more pro nuclear power in the current global warming hysteria 16:57 < fenn> but they keep building dams and coal power plants 17:00 < kanzure> snowball effect 17:01 < kanzure> so, nsh, I actually have the chance to throw a damaging blow 17:01 < kanzure> in about 10 minutes 17:02 < kanzure> for some reason everyone here is really nervious about meeting him, which is very weird 17:02 < kanzure> cultthing or something 17:04 < fenn> heh you should say something about that 17:08 < kanzure> ? 17:10 < fenn> his cult-like aura 17:11 < fenn> it's not like he doesn't bring it on himself 17:12 < fenn> the SL4 censorship/dictatorship doesn't help either 17:13 < fenn> an additional moderated list would be a good compromise 17:14 < fenn> but better if someone besides eli has that power 17:19 -!- biopunk [n=p@h45n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:32 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@adsl-75-36-170-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:23 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@adsl-75-36-170-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:38 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:45 < kanzure> "You're a mysterious fellow." 20:48 * nsh frowns 20:48 -!- willPow3r_ [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:06 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:27 -!- willPow3r_ is now known as willPow3r 22:16 -!- nsh- [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:24 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Connection timed out]