--- Day changed Tue Aug 26 2008
00:08 < kanzure> more news dump
00:08 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/2008-08-25
00:24 < ybit> anyone worked with a live mouse?
00:25 < kanzure> yes
00:26 < ybit> what did you do?
00:27 < ybit> cut the tail or ear?
00:29 < kanzure> No.
00:29 < kanzure> Training exercises.
00:30 < ybit> i'm curious if anyone else was queasy having to do that, if i have to do that, i will be atleast the first time 
00:31 < ybit> [terrible grammar, i know]
00:44 < kanzur1> hm
00:45 < kanzur1> that was weird
00:45 < kanzur1> for the past 18 minutes the ethernet was out
00:46 < bkero> I worked with a lot of mice
00:46 < bkero> Pharm sci lab doing some research with e. coli
00:49 < bkero> cutting them is a rather gruesome to do, but if you've got a bit of fortitude, you get used to it.
00:56  * nsh- has testicular fortitude, if that counts
00:58 < nsh-> qotd:
00:59 < nsh-> [[[
00:59 < nsh-> Derek took a big slug of his beer and lit a cigarette. He puffed pensively. “You know, Fichte and Hegel believed that the actions composing history have an 'inside' and an 'outside': both a priori and empirical aspects. The 'necessary' attributes of the historical process, they believed, have to do with the inside of an act; it is the inside of history that is the 'why' of it. I believe this is true not only of 'acts' in his
00:59 < nsh-> The inside of an event is the complex, multi-termed aspect projecting itself as an involute into a fabric of simple antecedent-consequent relations. Time, itself, has structure; this 'chronotopology', if you will, is the 'why' of nature: it determines the values of constants in the laws regulating natural processes, I believe. Any accurate philosophy of history must, therefore, at the same time be a general theory of process
00:59 < nsh-> ]]] -- http://www.geocities.com/m_valuedlets/tranche12.html
01:45 < ybit> kanzur1: you have used wget for wikipedia, i'm assuming, to retrieve wikipedia pages, some of which are probably now in the biotech toolkit... what length did you set the -wait option?
01:46 < ybit> i'm guessing 5,7, and 14 seconds should suffice
01:47 < ybit> -5
01:50 < kanzur1> I wasn't wgetting. :-(
01:50 -!- kanzur1 is now known as kanzure
01:51 < kanzure> I suggest you look into getting a full copy of Wikipedia.
01:52 < ybit> heh, how big is that? 
01:53 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Size_of_Wikipedia
01:55 < ybit> http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/Sitemap.htm
01:56 < ybit> i might be reading it wrong, but the database is a surprisingly small 3.4gb
01:56 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download
01:56 < kanzure> yep
01:56 < kanzure> unless you want images as well
01:56 < ybit> oh
01:57 < kanzure> http://download.wikimedia.org/enwiki/
01:57 < ybit> images would be nice :)
01:58 < kanzure> http://static.wikipedia.org/downloads/2008-06/en/wikipedia-en-html.tar.7z 14 GB
01:58 < kanzure> 20 times the archive size :)
01:59 < ybit> wow, i don't think this computer could handle it
01:59 < kanzure> http://download.wikimedia.org/enwiki/20080724/enwiki-20080724-pages-meta-current.xml.bz2 7.3 GB of all pages, current versions only, as of 2008-07-28
02:00 < ybit> maybe i don't need images :)
02:00 < kanzure> I wonder what the hell has happened to my internet connection.
02:00 < kanzure> Only 173 kbps?
02:00 < ybit> but i do need wikipedia just in case the wireless goes down on campus
02:00 < ybit> otherwise i'll have to use one of the computers at the library, ick
02:01 < willPow3r> dirty keyboards.
02:01 < ybit> exactly :)
02:02  * ybit does not eat anywhere near his computer ;)
02:02 < kanzure> http://download.wikimedia.org/enwiki/latest/enwiki-latest-pages-meta-history.xml.bz2 <-- 147 GB
02:08 < kanzure> http://opencog.org/wiki/OpenCogPrime:Roadmap
02:09 < kanzure> http://opencog.org/wiki/OpenCogPrime:PhaseOneRoadmap
02:09 < kanzure> who allows these people to breath?
02:12 < willPow3r> breathe?
02:12 < kanzure> breathe.
02:17 < willPow3r> just breathe.
02:39 < kanzure> http://www.monochrom.at/english/2008/08/nightmare-for-german-riaa-70200-samples.htm ' If you want to register a song at GEMA (RIAA, ASCAP of Germany) you have to fill in a form for each sample you use, even the tiniest bit. On 12 Sept 08, German Avantgarde musician Johannes Kreidler will —as a live performance event—register a short musical work that contains 70,200 quotations with GEMA using 70,200 forms.'
02:40 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG1Zn_6wDRo
02:41 < kanzure> oh, he's just a silly dj using a few thousand mp3s from his hdd
02:44 < kanzure> he would be such a jerk if he uses captchas on the forms
02:44 < kanzure> it's easy enough to take an image of the forms and automatically write the file names of the pieces that he's using
02:45 < kanzure> and if GEMA is smart they might think to use OCR on all 72k pages
02:45 < kanzure> but captchas could easily defeat it
02:47 < kanzure> I don't think this is unique .. fenn, what site was it that did the mashable music generators?
02:48  * kanzure has solved his calendar optimization problem
02:49 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/calendar.html
03:06 < willPow3r> kanzure, what was the original problem?
03:06 < kanzure> course scheduling
04:36 < willPow3r> youtube is down?
04:37 < kanzure> b 
04:37 < kanzure> hm
04:37 < kanzure> yes?
04:49 < ybit> http://frontiersin.org/conferences/individual_abstract_listing.php?conferid=2&pap=356&ind_abs=1&q=2
04:50 < ybit> http://frontiersin.org/conferences/individual_abstract_listing.php?conferid=2&pap=374&ind_abs=1&q=3
04:50 < ybit> http://rbwb.org
04:51 < kanzure> shit.
04:51 < kanzure> :-/
04:51 < kanzure> How'd you come across it?
04:54 < ybit> the comp-neuro mailing list
05:00 < kanzure> oh
05:01 < ybit> i'm guessing you are already signed up for it as well then
05:01 < ybit> you're not really disappointed, right?
05:02 < ybit> in a sense disappointed since it is close to what you wanted to do, but glad there is progress in this area?
05:03 < ybit> i will read your response when i wake up :)
05:03 < kanzure> yes, I am on the comp-neuro mailing list
05:03 < kanzure> I'm not disappointed, just behind apparently :)
05:03 < ybit> :)
05:03 < kanzure> also because it's kind of not progress too
05:04 < kanzure> since it's sort of the same thing as ABA's Brain Explorer, but a bit more at the same time
05:04 < kanzure> where's my apt-get for brains?
05:04 < ybit> why, do you think they won't want publish the source code?
05:04 < ybit> why is not progress^
05:05 < ybit> you refer to apt-get for new brains, correct?
05:06 < ybit> ones which may possibly connect to ours to extend functionality such as memory and maybe attention?
05:08 < kanzure> No, some of them are publishing code, like 'emergence' (O'Reilly's)
05:08 < kanzure> No, that's a longshot.
05:08 < kanzure> I'm talking much more simply, here and now and so on.
05:08 < kanzure> Just a simple, extendable architecture, nothing rolled into an entire singular package.
05:09 < kanzure> There's these databases out on the net publishing somewhat relevant data, it's worth including handlers for this content. The neuron model databases, bioinformatics, Entrez, PubChem, there's a lot of different services and the brain stuff doesn't seem to be plugging much into it.
05:09 < kanzure> I hope I'm wrong here, of course.
05:09 < kanzure> it's not bad, just not better
06:18 < kanzure> http://www.neuron.yale.edu/neuron/install/install.html#current
06:18 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/nrn_6.2-1_i386.deb 
06:18 < kanzure> not that it was hard to use alien -d or anything
06:18 < kanzure> but if it gets you a name on a yale page ;-)
06:25 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/matter_matters.html <-- hah
11:25 < willPow3r> people actually sleep?
11:25 < willPow3r> i thought this was the 21st century
11:26 < Phreedom> willPow3r: no, we hibernate :P
11:27 < willPow3r> that doesn't count towards your up time
11:27 < willPow3r> ;)
11:27 < Phreedom> unf yes :(
11:27 < Phreedom> but we're working on it
11:30 < willPow3r> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-sci-cows26-2008aug26,0,7995538.story
11:32 < willPow3r> "Experts acknowledged that the research almost certainly has no practical applications."
11:32 < willPow3r> lol
11:39 < Phreedom> every research has a practical application of scratching someone's itch
13:03 < willPow3r> i think its funny that they assume that it has no practical application
13:07 < kanzure> they want their first mover advantage
13:08 < nsh> whatwhopls?
13:09 < willPow3r> http://emotiv.com/
14:20 < kanzure> heh, they call it a revolutionary spiritual journey
14:20 < kanzure> "where we recognize your emotions so you don't have to! (r)"
14:20  * kanzure thought that was the church's job
14:35 < kanzure> http://eutils.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query/static/eutils_help.html something worth eventually getting around to reading.
14:43 -!- nsh- is now known as nsh
15:31 < kanzure> Hm.
15:31 < kanzure> http://www.theory.physics.ubc.ca/arxiv/
15:33 < kanzure> arxiv torrents
15:37 < kanzure> only one seed? let's fix that
16:01 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Event_format <-- hack me?
16:15 < procto> kanzure: all it seems you need is the ability to nest events
16:16 < procto> all events have start and end times. sometimes the granularity of the times can vary, i.e. a day or a month instead of a specific hour
16:16 < procto> the end time should also accept non-Date objects, that is, "when we're all too tired to keep going" is a valid end time.
16:19 < kanzure> hm
16:23  * kanzure threw it on to the page
16:32 < procto> kanzure: added something to the page
16:37 < kanzure> replied on page
16:37 < kanzure> 'so why would a subsubsubevent loop back to a parent event?'
16:45 < procto> my point was that I couldn't think of a reason for that
16:45 < procto> but that I could think of doing it, and maybe someone will think of a reason :>
16:46 < kanzure> you sir, are too adept at playing devil's advocate
16:51 < procto> I like to think I embody both Manechaeic poles :>
16:55 < elias`> what are Manechaeic poles? google finds nothing.
16:59 < procto> typo: manichaeic
17:00 < procto> Manichaeism was a gnostic religion
17:00 < procto> its name is used to represent a dualistic deistic cosmology
17:00 < procto> i.e. god vs. devil
17:00 < procto> things in the vein of zoroastrianism
17:15  * nsh smiles
17:15 < nsh> i seem to remember that the goal of gnosticism was to transcend this duality
17:28 < procto> manichaeism was sort of a synthesis of previous local religions with gnosticism sprinkled in
17:32 < nsh> i see
18:05 -!- nsh- is now known as nsh
20:39 < fenn> "The scientists were unable to distinguish between the head and rear of the cattle,"
20:48  * nsh liked that part too
--- Log opened Thu Sep 11 19:12:03 2008
19:12  * kanzure is on the payroll
19:26 < willPow3r> fenn, the author of that singularity skeptic blog used "partly religious" when he referred to the brain to mean something which we will probably never fully understand, leaving explanation and purpose to The Unknowable
19:26 < willPow3r> who some consider to be a god in one form or another
19:26 < willPow3r> and that idea isn't exactly far fetched or incorrect
19:28 < willPow3r> at least not as far fetched as some singularitarians are willing to go in defining their belief of the future
19:28 < willPow3r> its vaguely reminiscent of the heaven's gate cult.
19:30 < willPow3r> "drink the magic kool aid/red pill/microchip and be whisked away to a wonder utopia"
19:30 < kanzure> yes, drink it!
19:30 < willPow3r> wonderful*
19:30  * kanzure has drunk the koolaid
19:30 < willPow3r> i think that was just regular jungle juice
19:30 < willPow3r> kanzure
19:31 < willPow3r> probably with a little too much TAAKA vodka
19:41 -!- smurf is now known as biopunk
19:42 < kanzure> Hey biopunk
20:04 < biopunk> hi kanzure
20:07 < kanzure> What's up?
20:55 < biopunk> not much.. sorry for the latency ;)
21:48 < bkero> Any of you guys look at using perfluorocarbons as artificial blood?
22:22 < kanzure> Pardon?
22:22  * kanzure just got back from a seminar on zinc fingers for gene targetting
22:22 < kanzure> apparently it's becoming quite the respectable nonkilling alternative to retroviruses
22:23 < bkero> kanzure: blood substitutes
22:23 < bkero> perfluorocarbons as an artificial oxygen carrier.
22:24 < bkero> I was looking up Cray Blood that's used to cool computers, which brought me to fluorinert, which is a perfluorocarbon, which had some studies linked to it about using it for liquid breathing, or as a blood substitute.
22:24 < kanzure> isn't there more to blood than the hemoglobin? :(
22:25 < bkero> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=137239
22:30 < kanzure> first, I need to steal some anime-disco music
22:30 < kanzure> any servers to hit?
22:31 < bkero> anime--disco?
22:31 < bkero> wtf?
22:31 < bkero> You could try some Initial D
22:31 < bkero> That's pretty japanese
22:32 < bkero> Try back on the Rocks
22:32 < kanzure> What I really want is the group that I completely forget the name of.
22:32 < bkero> Malice Mizer?
22:32 < kanzure> the japanese group that does ridiculously awesome epic dance tracks
22:33 < kanzure> No, not so mainstream
22:33  * bkero shrugs
22:33 < kanzure> endmix
22:33 < kanzure> hm
22:33 < kanzure> Crap. I've forgotten the name.
22:35 < kanzure> Exit Trance.
22:35 < kanzure> bwahah
22:35 < bkero> Crazy Japanese.
22:36 < kanzure> hm, Initial D is listed as some of their covers
22:36 < bkero> lol
22:37 < kanzure> What's with you and lol?
22:37  * bkero shrugs
22:37 < kanzure> :)
22:37 < bkero> quick gut reaction to irony
22:37 < kanzure> still?
22:37 < kanzure> you never purged it?
22:37 < bkero> and this _IS_ the internet, isn't it?
22:38 < kanzure> *what* ?!
22:38 < kanzure> Any particular Initial D soundtracks?
22:38 < kanzure> erm
22:38 < kanzure> tracks
22:38 < kanzure> http://deimonstar.com/files/Juns%20Mp3/Initial%20D%20Soundtrack/
22:39 < kanzure> http://raggak.animechild.org/Crap/Music/ 
22:39  * kanzure grabs the zip
22:41 < kanzure> I'm in love with this server -> http://www.saitekanime.com/music/
22:42 < bkero> Not bad
22:44 < kanzure> 1 MB/sec