--- Day changed Fri Aug 29 2008 00:01 < fenn> any time 00:06 < ybit> heh :) 00:06 < ybit> i was supposed to say that! 00:15 < ybit> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fantville.medien.uni-weimar.de%2Finurbs%2Fgetfile%3Fname%3Dspline%2Bdriven%2Bdeformation&ei=u3e3SOu7NJ_ugATGtJm-DA&usg=AFQjCNEi519xCStn6IK1m5ZqKnsF21VNSg&sig2=ANTRyGqdIfqBUP7mqdJQJg 01:13 < kanzure> arghh 01:13 < kanzure> pain 01:14 < kanzure> class at eight in the morning .. haven't slept in a few days 01:14 < kanzure> but if I sleep, the pain pills will make me sleep in too late 02:15 -!- smurf [n=p@h111n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 02:26 -!- biopunk [n=p@h122n2c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:13 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:21 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:55 -!- percent [n=percent@66.158.193.32] has quit [] 04:04 < willPow3r_> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-08/uoc--rlt082808.php 04:12 < faceface> faceface: People in your way should be thoroughly annihilated. 04:13 < faceface> if that is possible without incuring prison, or otherwise encroaching on your overall productivity, yes 04:15 * nsh cites Ginsparg's [original] Law on that eurekalert article 04:15 < nsh> Ginsparg's Law: any seemingly notable observation can be reformulated as a completely obvious result. 04:16 < faceface> nsh, nice 04:16 < willPow3r_> isn't that the point of basic research 04:17 < nsh> nah, the point of basic research is to find the observations that aren't just seemingly notable :-) 04:17 < faceface> have you seen Finagle's laws 04:17 * nsh remembers vaguely 04:17 < faceface> I posted them to my old lab, and strangely got no response... lemmy paste... 04:17 < faceface> Finagle's Eighth Law: 04:17 < faceface> If an experiment works, something has gone wrong. 04:17 < faceface> Finagle's Ninth Law: 04:17 < faceface> No matter what results are expected, someone is always willing to 04:17 < faceface> fake it. 04:17 < faceface> Finagle's Tenth Law: 04:17 < nsh> oh, perversity of the universe tends to increase to a maximum 04:17 < faceface> No matter what the result someone is always eager to misinterpret it. 04:17 < faceface> Finagle's Eleventh Law: 04:17 < faceface> No matter what occurs, someone believes it happened according to 04:17 < faceface> his pet theory. 04:18 < faceface> basically all these laws were observable in my boss 04:18 * nsh smiles 04:18 < nsh> right, 11:19, i should think about going to work 04:18 < faceface> hehe, me too 04:19 < willPow3r_> where do you guys live? 04:19 < nsh> and moving out of my apartment to become homeless yay 04:19 * nsh lives in Tampere, Finland 04:19 < willPow3r_> nice. 04:30 < nsh> for another two days 04:30 < nsh> then i'll be a bum in tampere, finland 04:31 < willPow3r_> is there free wifi at least? 04:35 * nsh smiles 04:36 < nsh> there is library 04:38 * fenn wonders what finnish dumpsters are like 04:53 -!- Nofaris [n=Nofaris@75.42.94.197] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:57 -!- Nofaris [n=Nofaris@75.42.94.197] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:57 -!- Nofaris [n=Nofaris@adsl-75-42-94-197.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:02 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:23 -!- nsh [n=nsh@eduroam-52.uta.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:24 -!- smurf [n=p@h111n1c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [] 05:26 < bkero> Headed to penny arcade expo in about 4 hours. 05:47 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220.253-207-176.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:57 -!- willPow3r_ [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:06 -!- kanzure_ [i=bbishop@66.112.232.116] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:08 -!- kanzure_ [i=bbishop@66.112.232.116] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:22 < nsh> take a bomb! 06:22 < nsh> that's my new parting imperative to anyone going anywhere 07:07 -!- faceface [n=dbolser@bioinformatics.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:08 -!- faceface [n=dbolser@bioinformatics.org] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:10 -!- faceface [n=dbolser@bioinformatics.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:26 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@ip-194-50-167-184.mir.dn.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:30 -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9F43A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:37 -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:52 -!- Nade [n=lixasd@cpc2-clif5-0-0-cust516.nott.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 09:57 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@ip-194-50-167-184.mir.dn.ua] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:30 < kanzure> 'Kamel Boulos MN, Scotch M, Cheung K-H, Burden D. Web GIS in practice VI: a demo "playlist" of geo-mashups for public health neogeographers. International Journal of Health Geographics. 2008;7:38 11:30 < kanzure> http://www.ij-healthgeographics.com/content/pdf/1476-072X-7-38.pdf 11:30 < kanzure>   11:30 < kanzure> You can find more pointers at: http://healthcybermap.org/sl.htm' 11:33 -!- faceface [n=dbolser@bioinformatics.org] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:34 < nsh> sorrywhat? 11:34 < faceface> server down 11:34 < kanzure> http://healthcybermap.org/proposal.htm 'HealthCyberMap aims at mapping the health information cyberspace in unique and novel ways to help consumers and providers of health information navigate and plan this complex "virtual" space more efficiently and effectively. This is achieved through intelligent categorisation and interactive hypermedia visualisation of the health information cyberspace.' 11:34 < kanzure> blah 11:34 < kanzure> nevermind 11:34 < faceface> or something 11:34 < nsh> kanzure, explain all of thebaove pls 11:34 < faceface> oh... 11:34 < kanzure> nsh: bullshit 11:34 < kanzure> ignore it 11:34 < nsh> ok 11:34 < kanzure> sorry 11:34 < faceface> willPow3r I am uK 11:34 < kanzure> just looked at it. It's another informatics thingy. 11:35 < kanzure> I mean, it's useful 11:35 < nsh> uK == the new master race?! 11:35 < kanzure> but not. 11:35 < faceface> christ that sounds like balls! 11:48 -!- Nofaris [n=Nofaris@adsl-75-42-94-197.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:48 -!- elias`_ [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:49 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 11:49 -!- elias`_ is now known as elias` 11:56 < kanzure> fenn: can you export a list of f/oss cad/cam systems please? 11:57 -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9F43A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:02 < Phreedom> kanzure_: foss cad is a joke :( 12:02 < Phreedom> cam is a bad joke 12:02 < Phreedom> :`( 12:02 < kanzure> yes 12:02 < kanzure> I know, I know. 12:03 < kanzure> I have a 'philosophical objection' to CAD stuff anyway, 12:03 < Phreedom> like? 12:03 < kanzure> the 'artist' is assuming that 'drawing a line' directly correlates with fabricational functionality 12:03 < kanzure> I don't know how else to word that 12:03 < Phreedom> I understand 12:03 < kanzure> but basically it's trying to draw something in a little 3D viewport and say "make this a reality" 12:03 < Phreedom> you'd rather treat it as programming 12:04 < kanzure> yes 12:04 < kanzure> but 12:04 < Phreedom> parametrized, functional design 12:04 < kanzure> still an art of course 12:04 < Phreedom> I agree overall 12:04 < Phreedom> rather I agree that this is a good base for core manufacturing stuff 12:05 < Phreedom> end-user tweaks, one-off simple parts better fit "art" model 12:05 < kanzure> wait, what? 12:05 < kanzure> just elaborate 12:06 < kanzure> oh 12:06 < kanzure> okay, so we can have programming/engineering for the backend for the architecture/infrastructure of the factory/object/thingy, 12:06 < kanzure> and then the artsy stuff within some limited parameter-space 12:06 < kanzure> for tweaking 12:07 < kanzure> clearly a 'car' should not be done in autocad in terms of 'draw a line here' -- this should be done via lots of integrals and computational fluid dynamic simulations and such ;-) 12:07 < Phreedom> I meant that if you need a cellphone holder, it's better done the "art" way :) 12:07 < Phreedom> exactly. If you want to parametrize the thing, you need a powerful math model to back it up 12:16 -!- Nofaris [n=Nofaris@75.42.94.197] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:20 < kanzure> Phreedom: Alright, so we're in agreement on that. Now, the hard part. 12:20 < kanzure> Phreedom: How the hell do you convince somebody who would otherwise use CAD to do it this other way? 12:20 < kanzure> They can't as easily visualize code working out in a mechano-physico sense.. 12:20 < kanzure> (maybe they can, but it's certainly not common practice.) 12:22 -!- percent [n=percent@66.158.193.32] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:22 < Phreedom> kanzure_: that's why I advocate doing it only for core tech 12:23 < Phreedom> you can find a team of hardcore hackers to handle a small, but crucial set of technologies 12:24 < Phreedom> and other people can use gui and higher-level primitives 12:24 < Phreedom> eg you need to make a PCB 12:24 < kanzure> everyone should be able to be a hardcore hacker 12:24 < kanzure> ah 12:24 < kanzure> wait 12:24 < Phreedom> eveyone can but not everyone wants or cares to 12:24 < kanzure> They have different goals. 12:24 < kanzure> they're just trying to make a pretty hubcap 12:24 < kanzure> ideological constraints ... 12:25 < kanzure> "we must have cars! so I'm doing a pretty hubcap .." 12:26 < Phreedom> kanzure_: from my experience dealing with people with tons of ideological constraints(*cough*gnome*cough*), I'd say come up with a reasonable,practical, *scientific* framework.. and some people will join you 12:26 < Phreedom> you won't get everyone onboard but it's their problems 12:26 < Phreedom> -s 12:26 < Phreedom> and you won't solve it 12:28 < Phreedom> you don't need everyone, you need a qualified team 12:29 < Phreedom> a reasonably small team of highly-skilled open-minded individuals can to a gerat degree compensate for its size by higher efficiency of framework, knowledge, efficiency of communications and management 12:30 < Phreedom> and at the same time get something cutting-edge done 12:31 < Phreedom> instead lots of activity, ideological flamewars which usually lead to nothing or mediocre result at best 12:31 < Phreedom> *instead of 12:33 < kanzure> be back in a bit 12:34 < kanzure> but keep talking anyway :p 12:36 < Phreedom> :) 12:43 -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:34 -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:38 -!- percent [n=percent@66.158.193.32] has quit [" "] 13:40 -!- nsh [n=nsh@eduroam-52.uta.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:16 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@ip-194-50-167-184.mir.dn.ua] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:16 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@ip-194-50-167-184.mir.dn.ua] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:17 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@ip-194-50-167-184.mir.dn.ua] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:17 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@ip-194-50-167-184.mir.dn.ua] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:36 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:47 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:14 < kanzure> Things are looking good. ACTlab wants to supply the space and the professorship (the "official" to make it happen as in, really happen). 15:17 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:20 < Phreedom> kanzure_: all I see on their site is marketing talk 15:20 < kanzure> heh 15:20 < kanzure> exactly 15:20 < kanzure> they call it their "codified umbrella" 15:20 < kanzure> where they have all of their creative "do whatever you want, seriously" stuff 15:21 < Phreedom> as in we do what we want 15:21 < Phreedom> ok 15:21 < kanzure> yep 15:21 < kanzure> and then they become supergeniuses and make the admins proud or something 15:21 < kanzure> somehow 15:21 < Phreedom> at least they hope so 15:21 < kanzure> not sure what hteir trick is 15:21 < kanzure> well, they're still around 15:21 < kanzure> Brandon Wiley was one of the big names there for a while 15:21 < Phreedom> so what "space" are you referring to? 15:21 < kanzure> he did some freenet and bit torrent work 15:21 < kanzure> physical space 15:21 < kanzure> they have room for a fablab 15:22 < Phreedom> are you goign for some pysical stuff or only the database? 15:22 < Phreedom> *physical=tangible 15:23 < kanzure> physical 15:23 < kanzure> tangible 15:24 < Phreedom> and in what area? 15:24 < kanzure> hm? 15:24 < kanzure> UT Austin. On campus. 15:24 < Phreedom> I mean what are you goign to be fabbing 15:29 < kanzure> heh 15:29 < kanzure> "Stuff" 15:29 < kanzure> btw, fenn, Phreedom - somebdoy suggested me to yesterday at the robot group meeting to use cars as cnc routers and mount your units on the ground 15:30 < Phreedom> not me definitely 15:31 < Phreedom> kanzure_: though whatever you're going to do there, we'll have no means to collaborate other than the 'net :( 15:33 -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:33 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:33 < kanzure> Phreedom: I'm talking about the idea of it 15:33 < kanzure> of using cars with your tip "hanging" or "attached" from underneath 15:34 < kanzure> use some giant electric servos and drive the car in exactly straight lines so that you don't lose position or something 15:34 < kanzure> you already have an engine built into the beast 15:35 < Phreedom> there was a photo of a 6-8 legged "spider" cnc 15:35 < Phreedom> I think on reprap forums 15:35 < Phreedom> a real device btw 15:35 < kanzure> are legs sturdy enoug h? 15:35 < kanzure> would it move ? 15:36 < Phreedom> I suppose, yes 15:36 < Phreedom> http://builders.reprap.org/2008/06/walking-cnc-router-robot.html 15:37 < kanzure> hah, it's small :) 15:37 < Phreedom> as if you can't scale it up 15:37 < kanzure> just funny. 15:39 < kanzure> I saw this video last night as well - http://letsmakerobots.com/node/112 - "yellow bot - its purpose in life is to find stuff and play music on it" 15:48 < Phreedom> saw it I think 15:55 < ybit> both are amazing to me 15:55 < ybit> well, the yellow bot is just funny :) 15:57 < ybit> -just 15:57 < ybit> and -well :) 16:00 < ybit> hmm, sleep would have been helped my day today 16:00 < kanzure> wtf 16:00 < kanzure> I'm apparently now running the IEEE Manufacturing Automation Group 16:00 < kanzure> shit 16:02 < kanzure> Oh, this must be the email I sent off to them 16:04 < ybit> link? 16:04 * ybit wants to take a look 16:04 < kanzure> gimme a second 16:06 < kanzure> logging in and trying to find the clean link 16:13 < kanzure> http://ieeecommunities.org/ieeemag 16:14 < nsh> DAMN THE IEEEEEEE 16:14 < nsh> DAMN THEEEEEEEEM TO HEEEEEEEELL 16:14 < kanzure> Yep. 16:14 < kanzure> nsh: kind of like you with the drug scene 16:14 < kanzure> remember? 16:14 < nsh> word 16:15 * nsh is practicing his undercover identity *right now* 16:15 < kanzure> really? 16:15 < kanzure> why's that? 16:15 < nsh> opportunity knocked 16:15 < kanzure> You think we're doing illegal things? 16:16 < nsh> [[[ 16:16 < nsh> Who knew black holes could sing? Well, \"bellow\" might be a better term. The tune sounded by a supermassive black hole 250 million light-years away is actually a steady bass note like that of a cosmic fog horn warning surrounding material of the dangers of coming too close. 16:16 < nsh> After observing the Perseus galaxy cluster for 53 hours in August 2002, the Chandra X-ray Observatory revealed ripples in the hot gas that fills the cluster. These ripples appear to be sound waves that would register as a B flat if we could hear the deep tone. 16:16 < nsh> The team that discovered the waves determined their frequency by calculating the speed of sound in that environment and measuring the distance between wave crests. The frequency is about one cycle (or wave) per 9.5 million years or so — corresponding to a B-flat note about 57 octaves below \"middle C\" on a piano. 16:16 < nsh> ]]] --http://www.advancedphysics.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19 16:17 * nsh only recognises commons law :-) 16:17 < kanzure> creative commons? 16:18 < nsh> all that jazz 16:27 -!- willPow3r_ [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:36 < kanzure> hm 16:36 < kanzure> turns out the funding for the fablab must come from my end 16:37 < kanzure> $25k but that's with an unneeded $13k laser (we have a laser-based rapid prototyper on campus already ..) 16:37 < kanzure> surely $12k is the salary of a grad student? 16:37 < kanzure> anybody know? 16:40 -!- willPow3r_ [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:42 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:59 < fenn> http://web.mit.edu/~vona/www-NEW/Visolate/visolate/Visolate-info.html 19:59 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructal_theory 20:02 < kanzure> http://www.constructal.org/en/theory/presentation.html 20:02 < kanzure> maximization of "flow access" leading to 'optimization' 20:02 < kanzure> wonder what this looks like when interpreted in terms of computer science 20:02 < kanzure> ' This theory replaces the belief that nature is fractal, and allow one to design and analyse systems under constraints in a quest for optimality.' 20:03 < kanzure> ' 20:03 < kanzure> According to this, the best that can be done is to optimally distribute the imperfections of the system, and this optimal distribution of imperfection will generate the geometry or shape of the studied system.' 20:04 -!- Nofaris [n=Nofaris@75.42.94.197] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:05 < kanzure> optimally distribute imperfections of the system => let the students "optimize" their course schedules by hand .. 20:05 < kanzure> how the hell is this optimal? why not let them select from all possible schedules ... the computation isn't like it's going to crash the servers with only 50k students 20:17 -!- percent [n=percent@66.158.193.32] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:02 -!- Netsplit niven.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: elias`, Phreedom, chizu 21:03 -!- Netsplit over, joins: elias`, Phreedom, chizu 21:05 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@66.112.232.134] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:08 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@66.112.232.134] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:02 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@ip-194-50-167-184.mir.dn.ua] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:08 -!- Phreedom [n=freedom@ip-194-50-167-184.mir.dn.ua] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:10 -!- nsh- [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:25 -!- nsh [n=nsh@87-94-146-186.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:36 < kanzure> 'To face and cross the landscape of the computer's information flow, one needs the mental disciplines which the cetics have developed and evolved into the cybernetic senses, Although shih, the sense that 'tastes', feels and organizes varying concentrations of information is the highest of these, there are others. There is plexure and iconic vision, simulation, syntaxis and tempo. Tapas is really more of a mental discipline than a sense; indeed, it is 23:36 < kanzure> 'shih' sounds like it's a reference to some philosophy