--- Day changed Thu Sep 11 2008 00:01 -!- fenn_ [n=pz@adsl-76-251-81-100.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 00:01 -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: Semi-intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXKbzbeipmI http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/ | diy bio tools: http://biohack.sf.net/ | Automated societal knowledge (put it to work): http://heybryan.org/exp.html | Channel wiki: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ | F/OSS re: Kurzweil: http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ 00:01 -!- Topic set by kanzur1 [] [Mon Aug 11 14:37:25 2008] 00:01 [Users #hplusroadmap] 00:01 [ bkero] [ fenn ] [ freer ] [ kanzure__] [ Phreedom] [ willPow3r] 00:01 [ chizu] [ fenn_] [ kanzure] [ Overand ] [ procto ] [ ybit ] 00:01 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal] 00:01 -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008 00:01 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 42 secs 00:15 -!- fenn [n=pz@76.252.189.85] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:07 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220.253-202-190.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:54 -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9C132.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:42 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:42 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:57 -!- nsh [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:16 -!- marainein [n=marainei@220.253-202-190.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:20 < willPow3r> happy sept. 11th, everybody 07:32 < kanzure> http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html 07:34 < jm> ;-) 07:34 < willPow3r> lol 07:50 -!- nsh [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:03 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:09 < willPow3r> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tmodis/Kurzweil.htm 09:17 -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9C132.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:25 < fenn_> i guess that would be interesting if i had read the book 09:25 -!- You're now known as fenn 09:25 < willPow3r> i only got through the first couple chapters 09:26 < willPow3r> but modis says himself that he couldn't get past page 150 09:26 < fenn> heh 09:26 < willPow3r> because its all based on ballpark figures made by other scientists 09:48 < willPow3r> omfg singularitarians are so fucking ignorant 09:54 < fenn> who are these 'singularitarians' everyone keeps talking about? 09:55 < willPow3r> people who believe that kurzweil's predictions about the future progress of technology are fact 09:55 < fenn> do they actually refer to themselves as 'singularitarian'? 09:55 < willPow3r> yes, indeed they do 09:56 < willPow3r> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularitarianism 09:57 < willPow3r> they are, more or less, like christian soldiers, only for the singularity meme rather than the christian one 09:58 < fenn> i always thought the word was sort of a derisive comparison with religious fanatics 09:58 < fenn> not something to be trumpeted proudly 09:58 < willPow3r> heh 09:58 < willPow3r> ironically, thats what it's becoming 10:00 < willPow3r> trying to convince a believer to take scientific skepticism seriously is like trying to disprove religion 10:00 < willPow3r> since it's only a belief, it can't be done 10:01 < willPow3r> because the singularity hasn't happened yet, singularitarians have all the freedom they need to keep redefining their belief 10:02 < willPow3r> so it becomes an extremely parasitic and contagious meme 10:03 < willPow3r> i'm not saying that singularity is bad or impossible, just that the whole idea should be taken with a very large grain of salt 10:05 < willPow3r> and that the idea is diverging from what it started out as: a simple, yet powerful, concept, being taken out of context and hugely overexaggerated 10:07 < willPow3r> i mean, if you look at yudkowsy's "4 qualities that define a singularitarian," that looks an awful lot like the beginnings of a pentateuch for a system of belief 10:08 < willPow3r> and the current purveyors of singularitarianism (kurzweil, bostrom, yudkowsky) are becoming prophesized by this new following 10:09 < willPow3r> its very, very important to remember that the singularity is only an extrapolated data point on a graph, not some unknowable being to be idolized 10:09 < willPow3r> which it is becoming. by singularitarians. 10:11 < willPow3r> watch out for these people, they are going to give a bad name to science and anything having to do with research in advancement of human capability (medicine included) 10:12 < willPow3r> http://www.haibane.info/2008/03/02/singularity-skeptic/ 10:13 < willPow3r> off to class. l8r 10:13 < fenn> enjoy 10:31 < fenn> that singularity skeptic blog article is pretty weak 10:32 < fenn> i dont think he really understands what he's talking about 10:47 -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9C132.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:50 < fenn> i dont really get these "math question" captchas - if someone can write a spambot that can recognize horribly burred distorted text, surely they could add two numbers together 11:02 -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:49 < procto> fenn when you reach "ut my sense of the human brain (which is partly religious" 12:49 < procto> you should stop reading 12:49 < procto> and write off the article as bunk 12:50 < procto> and almost all the comments harp on the endless point of human exceptionalism 12:50 < procto> "we are motivated" 12:51 < procto> of course we are motivated. we fucking evolved. the basic evolutionary imperative of "survive to next generation" 12:51 < procto> that's it. 13:05 * kanzure didn't get through Kurzweil's book either 13:05 < kanzure> SL4 is filled with tons of 'singularitarians' 13:06 < kanzure> now there's people joining those mailing lists looking for "singularitarian jobs" 13:06 < procto> ... 13:06 < procto> kurzweil makes plenty of errors of optimism and sort of ommitting things 13:07 < procto> but he doesn't accept fundamentally wrong models 13:07 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ <- why kurzweil sucks 13:07 < procto> I've read all of those 13:07 < kanzure> true, he's not as bad as yudkowsky's fanbase 13:07 < kanzure> remember, I was living /with/ his fanbase 13:07 < kanzure> cultists 13:07 < procto> highly unsatisfactory attack on kurzweil 13:07 < procto> they're mostly against his motivation and interpretation of possible future developments 13:08 < procto> I agree with some of yudkowsky's ideas. I agree with some of kurzweil's ideas. I am not a "fan" of *anyone*. That's the big problem... 13:08 < procto> How can you claim to be doing any sort of thinking while you are in thrall to someone's personality? 13:08 < procto> I don't understand it. 13:08 < procto> oh well. 13:08 < procto> kanzure: the ... was for the singularitarian jobs. 13:09 < procto> just fyi 13:09 < procto> kanzure: I just registered for a self-design independent study course I'm going to be doing this semester 13:09 < procto> called it "Exploring the Exocortex" 13:09 < procto> basically, I'm going to start recording every day of my life on camera 13:09 < procto> tagging the results 13:09 < procto> and then training various learners on it 13:10 < procto> until they know my daily life, and what my behavior SHOULD be based on my calendar 13:10 < procto> better than I do 13:10 < kanzure> procto: do you know of my years of paralysis? 13:10 < procto> (I'm very bad at it) 13:10 < procto> kanzure: no? 13:10 < kanzure> from age 13 to 16 or so, I would come home and sit and just type for hours to do autobiographical recounts of the day 13:10 < kanzure> somewhat like tagging 13:10 < kanzure> it _does not work_ 13:10 < kanzure> you will KILL yourself 13:10 < procto> well, I don't remember what I did today 13:11 < procto> that's why I will video everything 13:11 < kanzure> yes,but it's the tagging .. 13:11 < procto> the point is basically that I just don't have the time to do the tagging automatically 13:11 < procto> there are people who are better at such things that I can get in a semester 13:12 < kanzure> http://www.speakeasy.org/~lion/nb/ "How to make a complete map of every thought you think" 13:12 < kanzure> Lion Kimbro understands .. "this *will* kill you" 13:12 < kanzure> the MIT/Austin list guy understands <--- it /did/ kill him 13:12 < kanzure> did it for 12 years .. 13:13 < procto> I'm doing it for at most a month 13:13 < procto> just to have data 13:13 < procto> that's the point, I don't want to actually have to do it 13:13 < procto> but to export it to the exocortex 13:13 < procto> but to incentivize good feature extractors, I need to have a system that already deals with that type of data 13:15 < procto> I don't care at the moment what is happening INSIDE my brain 13:15 < procto> i.e. mapping my thgouths, etc. 13:15 < procto> I only care about figuring out things like being aware of the behaviors that surround getting to an appointment on time. 13:15 < procto> a calendar can remind me that I have an appt 13:16 < procto> a calendar doesn't have a model of the appropriate sequence of behaviors for making it in time to the appointment 13:16 < procto> and thus can't notice deviations 13:16 < procto> anyways, the exact goal of the course will get refined over the semester 13:17 < kanzure> http://groups.google.com/group/utsvt-body-team 13:17 < kanzure> grr, more mailing lists 13:17 * procto will be back later 13:34 * kanzure too 15:12 * kanzure is on the payroll 15:26 < willPow3r> fenn, the author of that singularity skeptic blog used "partly religious" when he referred to the brain to mean something which we will probably never fully understand, leaving explanation and purpose to The Unknowable 15:26 < willPow3r> who some consider to be a god in one form or another 15:26 < willPow3r> and that idea isn't exactly far fetched or incorrect 15:28 < willPow3r> at least not as far fetched as some singularitarians are willing to go in defining their belief of the future 15:28 < willPow3r> its vaguely reminiscent of the heaven's gate cult. 15:30 < willPow3r> "drink the magic kool aid/red pill/microchip and be whisked away to a wonder utopia" 15:30 < kanzure> yes, drink it! 15:30 < willPow3r> wonderful* 15:30 * kanzure has drunk the koolaid 15:30 < willPow3r> i think that was just regular jungle juice 15:30 < willPow3r> kanzure 15:31 < willPow3r> probably with a little too much TAAKA vodka 15:41 -!- smurf [n=p@h27n2c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:41 -!- smurf is now known as biopunk 15:42 < kanzure> Hey biopunk 16:04 < biopunk> hi kanzure 16:04 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:04 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:07 < kanzure> What's up? 16:08 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:08 -!- willPow3r [n=will@cpe-66-75-6-181.san.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:55 < biopunk> not much.. sorry for the latency ;) 17:42 -!- jm [n=jm@p57B9C132.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:48 < bkero> Any of you guys look at using perfluorocarbons as artificial blood? 18:22 < kanzure> Pardon? 18:22 * kanzure just got back from a seminar on zinc fingers for gene targetting 18:22 < kanzure> apparently it's becoming quite the respectable nonkilling alternative to retroviruses 18:23 < bkero> kanzure: blood substitutes 18:23 < bkero> perfluorocarbons as an artificial oxygen carrier. 18:24 < bkero> I was looking up Cray Blood that's used to cool computers, which brought me to fluorinert, which is a perfluorocarbon, which had some studies linked to it about using it for liquid breathing, or as a blood substitute. 18:24 < kanzure> isn't there more to blood than the hemoglobin? :( 18:25 < bkero> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=137239 18:30 < kanzure> first, I need to steal some anime-disco music 18:30 < kanzure> any servers to hit? 18:31 < bkero> anime--disco? 18:31 < bkero> wtf? 18:31 < bkero> You could try some Initial D 18:31 < bkero> That's pretty japanese 18:32 < bkero> Try back on the Rocks 18:32 < kanzure> What I really want is the group that I completely forget the name of. 18:32 < bkero> Malice Mizer? 18:32 < kanzure> the japanese group that does ridiculously awesome epic dance tracks 18:33 < kanzure> No, not so mainstream 18:33 * bkero shrugs 18:33 < kanzure> endmix 18:33 < kanzure> hm 18:33 < kanzure> Crap. I've forgotten the name. 18:35 < kanzure> Exit Trance. 18:35 < kanzure> bwahah 18:35 < bkero> Crazy Japanese. 18:36 < kanzure> hm, Initial D is listed as some of their covers 18:36 < bkero> lol 18:37 < kanzure> What's with you and lol? 18:37 * bkero shrugs 18:37 < kanzure> :) 18:37 < bkero> quick gut reaction to irony 18:37 < kanzure> still? 18:37 < kanzure> you never purged it? 18:37 < bkero> and this _IS_ the internet, isn't it? 18:38 < kanzure> *what* ?! 18:38 < kanzure> Any particular Initial D soundtracks? 18:38 < kanzure> erm 18:38 < kanzure> tracks 18:38 < kanzure> http://deimonstar.com/files/Juns%20Mp3/Initial%20D%20Soundtrack/ 18:39 < kanzure> http://raggak.animechild.org/Crap/Music/ 18:39 * kanzure grabs the zip 18:41 < kanzure> I'm in love with this server -> http://www.saitekanime.com/music/ 18:42 < bkero> Not bad 18:44 < kanzure> 1 MB/sec 20:55 -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:15 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/camera/aws/view.html <-- I feel old. 21:16 < kanzure> just got those photos from some very, very old friends 21:17 < bkero> Er 21:24 -!- Nade [n=lixasd@cpc2-clif5-0-0-cust516.nott.cable.ntl.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:27 < bkero> kanzure: Have you ever used http://www.biosql.org/wiki/Main_Page ? 21:27 < bkero> Apparently some people set it up and populate it with the entire NCBI taxonomy set. 21:28 < kanzure> Yummy. 21:28 < kanzure> NCBI only releases their dataset to you if you fill out a few forms. 21:28 < kanzure> I guess I have somewhat legitimate reasons now, but it's still annoying. 21:29 < bkero> How about the entire GenBank or EMBL or Swissprot public 21:29 < kanzure> Swissprot? 21:29 < kanzure> EMBL? 21:29 < kanzure> But yes, I'd like to torrent GenBank. 21:29 < bkero> google is your friend :) 21:29 < bkero> http://www.embl.de/ 21:29 < kanzure> http://expasy.org/sprot/ 21:30 < kanzure> you know what, fuck this 21:30 < kanzure> I can spider genbank. 21:30 < bkero> lol 21:30 < bkero> How big do you think genbank is 21:30 < bkero> ? 21:30 < kanzure> Meh. 21:30 < kanzure> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Ftp/ 21:31 < kanzure> Woah, this isn't bad. 21:31 < kanzure> ftp://bio-mirror.net/biomirror/genbank/ 21:32 < kanzure> ftp://bio-mirror.jp.apan.net/pub/biomirror/genbank/ (Japan) 21:32 < kanzure> ftp://bio-mirror.kr.apan.net/pub/biomirror/genbank/ (Korea) 21:32 < kanzure> ftp://bio-mirror.sg.apan.net/biomirrors/genbank/ (Singapore) 21:32 < bkero> That's maybe 1TB? 21:33 < kanzure> How much of it is unique? 21:33 < kanzure> I can't quite tell the difference between the datasets there except the filename, which isn't helpful. 21:33 < bkero> Yea 21:33 < kanzure> ftp://ftp.ncbi.nih.gov/genbank/genomes/H_sapiens/ 21:33 < kanzure> For instance, 21:33 < bkero> ftp://bio-mirror.net/biomirror/genbank/README.genbank 21:33 < kanzure> 94 MB, and then a 1 GB file 21:33 < kanzure> Yes, I read the readme. 21:33 < kanzure> foo 21:33 < bkero> JESUS 21:33 < bkero> The files in this directory comprise GenBank Release 167.0, in the 21:33 < bkero> GenBank flatfile format. 21:34 < kanzure> hs_phs0.fna.gz Survey sequence (approx 0.5 - 1 x coverage) 21:34 < kanzure> hs_phs1.fna.gz Unordered contigs (each >2kb) 21:34 < kanzure> hs_phs2.fna.gz Ordered contigs (each >2kb) 21:34 < kanzure> hs_phs3.fna.gz Finished sequence 21:34 < kanzure> Heh. 21:34 < bkero> Looks like GenBank is pulling in EMBL data 21:34 < kanzure> All of them are the whole release? Bah .. 21:35 < bkero> At least nucleotide bases can be 2-bit bit. :) 21:35 < kanzure> 20 minutes to get a gigabyte. Meh. I guess it's not life-or-death. 21:35 < kanzure> What type of down/up do you get at Intel? 21:36 < bkero> Intels connection is shit 21:36 < bkero> Although I have an I2 connection at oregonstate. 21:36 < bkero> Bouncing between 600 and 1.2MB 21:37 < kanzure> Bah. 21:37 < kanzure> But at least you have clusters. 21:37 < bkero> Heh 21:37 < kanzure> don't tell me that's not quite true either .. 21:38 < bkero> actually 21:38 * kanzure groans 21:38 < bkero> bio-mirror.net = magpie.bio.indiana.edu 21:38 < kanzure> right 21:38 < bkero> My friend runs the supercomputer on campus there. 21:38 < kanzure> How super is it? 21:38 < bkero> Mainframe super 21:38 < bkero> It's on the top 500 list 21:40 < bkero> http://www.top500.org/site/systems/876 21:41 < kanzure> Heh, they give the top500 in XML format on the site 21:41 < bkero> I can probably get him to send it to you. :P 21:41 < kanzure> the whole cluster? 21:41 < bkero> No, the data from the ftp 21:41 < kanzure> that's not quite as exciting 21:41 < bkero> lol 21:41 < bkero> You want a cluster? 21:41 < kanzure> unless he can get it to me in less than the 13 minutes remaining 21:41 < kanzure> Yes, especially an exponentially growing cluster if you would 21:41 < kanzure> maybe a supercluster 21:42 < bkero> I can get quad cores with 4gb of ram for less than $500 a node 21:43 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/clusters.html 21:43 < kanzure> now that /me thinks about it I should have kept the superclusters 21:43 < bkero> Strike that, $400 per node 21:44 < kanzure> node != just the microprocessor ? 21:44 < bkero> No 21:44 < kanzure> Then why mention the ram? 21:44 < bkero> Node = one commodity "computer" 21:44 < kanzure> != means "not equal" 21:44 < kanzure> anyway 21:44 < kanzure> Awesome. 21:44 < kanzure> I wish you would have mentioned that a few months ago. 21:44 < bkero> Aww, did you ahve an opportunity? 21:45 < kanzure> No, I wasted a large chunk of cash on a new box. 21:45 < bkero> Yea. These boxes have onboard video, and no hard drives... 21:45 < kanzure> just a little over double .. 21:45 < kanzure> oh 21:45 < kanzure> Well then. Nevermind. 21:45 < bkero> Wow, damn, I hope you got something good. 21:46 < bkero> $550 would get you good video and a 500gb 21:46 < kanzure> 2 TB, four video cards, eight monitors, quadcore, 4 GB ram, .. 21:46 < bkero> what 21:46 < kanzure> ? 21:46 < bkero> Is that what you got? 21:46 < kanzure> yes 21:47 < bkero> Absurd 21:47 < kanzure> Overpriced? 21:47 < bkero> 8 monitors? 21:47 < kanzure> Heh. 21:47 < kanzure> CRTs. 21:47 < bkero> oh 21:47 < kanzure> So it was cheap. 21:47 < bkero> God 21:47 < bkero> SO MUCH POWER DRAW 21:47 < bkero> and SO MUCH EYE CANCER 21:47 < kanzure> CANCER 21:47 * kanzure has to boot up with a radiation suit 21:48 < bkero> Buy one of these 21:48 < bkero> and tell me how much it draws 21:48 < bkero> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001 21:48 < bkero> dinner time, spicy curry! 22:02 < kanzure> what do I do with an fna file? 22:02 < kanzure> 'FASTA file format, nucleic acid sequences' 22:03 < kanzure> looks like I might be able to split it up if I wanted to but why wasn't it in the first place? 22:04 < kanzure> each entry in the fna file looks like http://earth.lab.nig.ac.jp/~dclust/cgi-bin/barley_pub/blast_viewer/showflatdata.cgi?CLNID=5005&CLNLIBID=54&DBID=1 22:04 < kanzure> specially the portions separted by the hr elements on the page 22:08 -!- Nade is now known as Nade|sleep 23:28 -!- Nade|sleep [n=lixasd@cpc2-clif5-0-0-cust516.nott.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]