--- Day changed Sun Sep 14 2008 00:02 < kanzure> No. 00:02 < kanzure> How many can there be? 100? 200? 00:02 < kanzure> http://www.mit.edu/people/cdemello/es.html 00:02 < kanzure> You're in luck. :) 00:24 < ybit> i found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Spain earlier but mit's list might be better 00:25 < ybit> dunno yet 00:29 < bkero> http://digg.com/comedy/How_to_protect_your_car_in_a_hurricane_PIC 00:39 < fenn> certain death 00:39 < ybit> heh 00:55 < kanzure> http://www.pythoncad.org/ 00:56 < kanzure> bleh 00:56 < kanzure> yet another one man team 00:59 < fenn> dead-ish project too 00:59 < fenn> the code was awful, imho 01:02 < fenn> wildcat cad looks interesting, though the dev seems to be sort of obsessed with premature optimization 01:02 < fenn> http://code.google.com/p/wildcat-cad/ 01:04 < kanzure> same problem as browsers 01:04 < kanzure> everything thrown into a single package 01:04 < kanzure> needs to be a little catalysis 01:04 < kanzure> small, independent scripts to make up the functions 01:05 < kanzure> then let somebody else bother with fancy gui bullshit 01:05 < fenn> eh, i guess 01:05 < fenn> brlcad is using that strategy and still there's nothing useful after 3-30 years 01:05 < kanzure> wtf? 01:05 < fenn> i mean brlcad is great if you're doing nuclear tank warfare simulations 01:05 * kanzure looks 01:06 < kanzure> it's a simulator? 01:06 < fenn> it's a solid modeler 01:06 < fenn> but the GUI is atrocious 01:06 < fenn> anyway, brlcad is based on the unix philosophy of a million little commands 01:06 < kanzure> does it not perform well or something? 01:07 < fenn> uh, it's just hard to learn, and it doesn't really do "design" 01:07 < kanzure> 'BRL-CAD is a collection of more than 400 tools, utilities, and applications comprising more than a million lines of source code.' 01:07 < kanzure> million lines of code for what? :/ 01:07 < fenn> n-dimensional ray tracer, numerical utilities.. 01:07 < kanzure> 'photon mapping support for realistic images' hahah :) 01:08 < fenn> they do stuff like calculate the x-ray flux to various parts of a person when a nuclear bomb goes off at such-n-such distance 01:10 < fenn> said person being inside a tank or a battleship or whatever 01:11 < fenn> so they have to make models of the tank and all its materials 01:11 < fenn> but they dont actually design the tanks with brlcad 01:12 < fenn> it's been open source for like 3 years, but under development for 30-odd years 01:12 < kanzure> so why would you say they're using that strategy and not getting anything useful if you know they aren't aiming for usable stuff? 01:13 < fenn> "let somebody else bother with the fancy GUI bullshit" doesnt mean anybody will actually bother with it 01:14 < kanzure> wrt brlcad or in general 01:14 < kanzure> because I'm good with cli gcc 01:14 < kanzure> ide is a nice bonus 01:16 < fenn> errr... all i gotta say is command line cad doesn't work so well 01:16 < kanzure> why? consider this argument: 01:17 < kanzure> you're going to be using parts or manipulations to designs that the program has in the db anyway 01:17 < kanzure> so you either know it or you don't, no? 01:17 < fenn> say that again? 01:19 < kanzure> you know how I was talking about repairing a user's requirements when they start typing and clicking in their interface? 01:19 < kanzure> the reason it has to be 'repaired' is because we're translating from la la land in their personal semantic forest over to what the db knows about 01:20 < kanzure> so if you know the items in the db, how they interconnect and so on, or how to generate a flat surface with something attached to it etc., what's the problem with using the cli like that ? 01:32 < kanzure> fenn: did I kill you? :( 01:33 < fenn> eh sorry i got distracted and forgot 01:34 < fenn> i'm just saying it's hard to specify "click here" with a command line 01:34 < fenn> like, this particular edge/face/vertex 01:34 < kanzure> agreed 01:35 < kanzure> but is 'click here' the Right way to do it anyway? 01:35 < fenn> and nobody likes naming every single primitive, so it gets nasty when you have a complex shape and have to figure out which cylinder you are looking at 01:36 < kanzure> I think it would be ok to sacrifice visuals for automatically generated structures, with validation and so on, unless you're specifically designing a final product skin or something, and for that, by all means go do some blender or something 01:39 < fenn> most engineers learn how things work by playing around with them, holding in their hands and moving things back and forth 01:39 < fenn> doing that with a command line requires a whole extra layer of abstract thought 01:40 < fenn> it's "counter-intuitive" 01:40 < fenn> or maybe just not intuitive 01:40 < kanzure> hm, is counterintuitions offensive intuitions or just not intuitions? 01:40 < kanzure> *are 01:40 < fenn> anyway, there's nothing wrong with specifying the constraints via cli, but you _need_ a GUI to see wtf you have in the first place 01:40 < kanzure> no argument there 01:40 < fenn> otherwise it's just a bunch of boxes with lines between them 01:41 < kanzure> what? 01:41 < kanzure> wouldn't the gui show that sometimes too? 01:41 < kanzure> or how would a cli show boxes and lines? I guess if you use ncurses 01:41 < fenn> you know the automated design lab thing 01:41 < kanzure> yes 01:41 < fenn> that's not a GUI 01:41 < fenn> it's boxes with lines between them 01:41 < fenn> wah 01:41 < kanzure> the uml-like graph stuff? sure 01:42 < fenn> labview is also boxes with lines between them, but you can grab the boxes and lines and shake them around and make it do stuff 01:42 < kanzure> still haven't found an open source library for doing stuff like that - even though graphviz should have figured it out a long time 01:43 < kanzure> reasoning about designs on both a geometric, measurement-restricted, and more importantly material basis in the cli is definitely counter/nonintuitive. 01:43 < fenn> graphviz is for diagrams for your peer-reviewed journal article, submitted in LaTeX format 01:43 < kanzure> in fact, reasoning about materials is completely nonintuitive 01:44 < kanzure> except crystallography, which if you look at it is kind of basic "uh, well, you have a force here, so what the hell do you think a huge force is going to do to this material?" 01:44 < fenn> uh, i think you're way off base 01:44 < fenn> nobody goes and looks up the coefficient of blahdyblah every time they pick a material for a part 01:44 < fenn> they have experience with these materials and build up an intuition of how they perform 01:45 < fenn> if it's a critical assembly in some instrument, then yeah you will worry about exact numbers and how the material behaves at extremes 01:45 < fenn> but for most cases you use what you're familiar with 01:46 < fenn> or else there is lots of trial and error, assisted with plenty of FEA 01:46 < kanzure> methinks that trial and error occurs in either cases .. 01:46 < fenn> sure 01:46 < kanzure> or maybe that's why metals are so popular 01:46 < kanzure> not only are they somewhat abundant, but if you reason with them "well, it's strong" then you're good 01:46 < kanzure> and your bases are generally covered 01:46 < kanzure> ok 01:46 < fenn> it's very easy to just go with 6061 aluminum for everything 01:47 < kanzure> but I'm not happy about trusting so much in user intuitions 01:47 < kanzure> wasp nest / open source incrementalism versus -- oh crap, 01:47 < kanzure> what was that wolfram quote earlier today? 01:47 < kanzure> what would wolfram say about the iterative development of a wasp's nest? 01:47 < kanzure> particularly the huge one that was linked to in here a few weeks ago 01:47 < fenn> uh, beehives were one of the few natural systems that satisfied a simple system of constraints? 01:48 < fenn> what with the regular hexagons and all 01:50 < kanzure> cli reasoning about design would only make sense if you're doing more than just geometry/shapes because otherwise just use a 3D GUI playhouse 01:50 < kanzure> unless you don't care about the final shape of course 01:50 < kanzure> which is fine too, but the final shape stuff is only half the design problem 01:50 < kanzure> (the other half is functionality of the components and so on) 01:51 < fenn> and how to make it 01:51 < kanzure> another paper constrained the user's choices for designs to only those things the program knew the cnc router could cut out :) 01:51 < fenn> i liked the nist paper where they specified only the important bits, usually how the pieces related to each other 01:51 < kanzure> so there was a direct genotype-to-phenotype constraining the rules of design choices 01:52 < kanzure> I don't remember that one 01:52 < fenn> then it was up to the program to figure out how to actually machine each part 01:52 < kanzure> hm 01:52 < kanzure> well, there's also issues like the clearance between parts 01:52 < kanzure> dolorean door opening up hitting a ceiling 01:52 < kanzure> erm, that's an easy algorithmic problem 01:52 < kanzure> forget it 01:53 < kanzure> I wonder if "how to make it" is what the designer should be programming .. not the "it" (of cli geom/3D add-sphere-to .. origin stuff), which is just templates that are customized by artists / end-users 01:57 < fenn> nist paper i was talking about: "automated redesign for improving manufacturability" in particular http://www.cs.umd.edu/~nau/vm2/ 02:00 < kanzure> http://www.lpgli.com/ 02:00 < kanzure> ah right 02:00 < fenn> everyone knows that the power of HHO will destroy the imperialist oil baron hegemony! 02:00 < ybit> so, q-cad is that bad? 02:00 < kanzure> hm, I need to get the lab hooked on the Regli/nist work 02:01 < fenn> qcad isnt too bad, as long as you dont try to use blocks 02:01 < fenn> you start to like the context-sensitive buttons after a while 02:04 < ybit> some idiot recently put what should be a spreadsheet in a .dwf file 02:04 < kanzure> manufacturability validation sounds ok, but "how to make it" is a harder problem .. isn't that why you're using the kb/db on the computer anyway? so that you can already use information on how to build separate parts, and then just use rules for combining the stuff together to make the final construction proc 02:04 < ybit> it was for my brother's workplace, i was tasked with figuring out the contents, yay 02:06 < ybit> i'll try keeping dumb stories to myself next time :) 02:06 < kanzure> heh :) 02:06 < kanzure> daily wtf 02:08 < fenn> so it was a drawing of a spreadsheet? 02:08 < kanzure> heh 02:11 < ybit> fenn: indeed 02:14 < kanzure> "how to make it" is just as hard a problem as the nonintuitive material cli stuff 02:14 < kanzure> unless you have fabuntu / Fab Lab version infinity sitting in your basement 02:15 < kanzure> ping? 02:15 < kanzure> nevermind 02:39 < fenn> version 2.7182818 02:40 < kanzure> hm? 02:41 < fenn> subsequent releases of LaTeX tend towards "e" 02:41 < kanzure> what good is e? :) 02:41 < fenn> what good is infinity? 02:42 < fenn> what good is a newborn baby? 02:42 < kanzure> none! kill it! 02:42 < kanzure> oops, didn't say that 02:42 < kanzure> yandex is rather slow in opera 02:42 < kanzure> I think it might be doing some nasty js 03:51 < kanzure> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOQve3OoiG4 03:51 < kanzure> best reason ever to not buy their magazine 04:11 < kanzure> wtf, Bill Gates + Jerry Seinfeld commercial? 04:11 < kanzure> most confusing commercial ever 04:11 < kanzure> 'amoeba with a blog' 04:11 < kanzure> we can do this 04:11 < kanzure> quick, somebody get me the genome of an amoeba 04:12 < kanzure> nsh? 04:13 < kanzure> ftp://ftp.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/gene/ somewhere 04:14 < kanzure> ftp://ftp.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genomes/ 04:14 < kanzure> what's amoeba, protozoa or something? 04:17 < kanzure> Naegleria_fowler => "brain-eating amoeba" 04:47 < ybit> http://www.physorg.com/news140527552.html 04:54 < kanzure> oh god 04:54 < kanzure> LHC is on Windows? 05:20 < kanzure> Somebody's trying to prove to me the existence of goals in the brain via http://changingminds.org/explanations/brain/urge_system.htm 05:21 < kanzure> Does anybody else see the problem with this page? 05:21 < kanzure> ""The thalamus in the limbic system ('leopard brain') converts the physical need into an urge within the cortex. 05:22 < kanzure> holy fuck :( 05:22 < fenn> rawr 05:22 < kanzure> seriously though 05:22 < fenn> i think i feel a goal coming on 05:22 < kanzure> ? 05:23 < fenn> goals exist in the mind, not the brain 05:23 < kanzure> guess I've lost my mind 05:24 < fenn> probably 05:25 < fenn> buying land anywhere is cheaper than doing anything in outer space 05:25 < kanzure> on that note I'm currently listening to http://www.last.fm/music/Helloween/Gambling+With+The+Devil/As+Long+As+I+Fall (new album) 05:26 < fenn> for some reason i'm obsessing about wearable computers 05:26 < kanzure> fenn: we're talking about land with enough resources to sustain you 05:26 < kanzure> not some stupid chunk of land without anything usable 05:27 < fenn> what, a few acres at most 05:27 < fenn> in the philippines every citizen is allotted 1.2 acres (hectares?) and it's supposed to be able to sustain them if they farm it well 05:28 < fenn> i dont know if this is realistic but it's on the right order of magnitude 05:28 < kanzure> how does that get you the surface area you need for all of those photons you'd be needing? 05:28 < kanzure> and how does that give you enough material for all of the machinery and so on? 05:29 < fenn> aroo? i'm talking about land on earth 05:29 < kanzure> maybe it does for the machinery - but last time I checked a lot of manufacturing equipment is *huge* 05:30 < kanzure> bah - farming - where are your heavy metals? 05:30 < fenn> the squishy wet kind 05:30 < fenn> you dont need heavy metals to 'sustain you' 05:30 < kanzure> wait, 05:30 < kanzure> are you or are you not talking about the openmanufacturing email I sent? 05:30 < fenn> yes 05:31 < kanzure> so without the manufacturing part, you should just go over to some silly be-green-or-else mailing list I guess 05:31 < fenn> well, he raised a valid point and you sorta brushed him off with 'i dont believe in money' 05:33 < kanzure> http://www.mattmahoney.net/rsi.pdf matt's attempt at a mathematical version of recursive self-improvement .. it's probably wrong, matt tends to be wrong a lot 05:33 < kanzure> let me go check it 05:33 < kanzure> material dependency issues 05:33 < kanzure> what's wrong with that 05:33 < kanzure> it's quite true that many people are screwed 05:34 < kanzure> look, you were born into a system where you don't have any way to make sure you actually have enough resources on the planet to keep you clicking 05:34 < kanzure> of course, thanks to the vast volumes and so on, there is, but still 05:34 < kanzure> that's no guarantee etc. 05:40 < kanzure> I know I'm screwing myself over since what I propose when I speak like that is /hard/, but nobody said things were easy etc. etc. 05:43 < kanzure> re: rsi.pdf, wolfram's lack of faith in iteration to solve problems is interesting 05:44 < fenn> er, whoops i didnt really pay attention to that.. seemed like your usual singularitarian propaganda disguised as science 05:44 < kanzure> i think it is 05:47 < fenn> it doesn't make sense anyway 05:47 < fenn> 'this program counts, therefore it has a goal. therefore recursive self improvement is slow!' 05:48 < kanzure> "represents the goal of finding large prime numbers" 05:48 < kanzure> WTF 05:48 < kanzure> I still don't understand 'goals' 05:48 < kanzure> and I was in a goal cult, I should know goals 05:49 < fenn> goals are just a motivational structure 05:49 < fenn> when you reach them you get to check something off your list and give yourself a cookie 05:49 < fenn> the cookie is not the goal but it provides the positive feedback 05:49 < kanzure> goal is some hypothalamus glutamate imbalance between neurons 15 and 32 ? 05:50 < fenn> the actual goal is something like a unit test 05:50 < kanzure> it's kind of like playing a game with yourself methinks 05:50 < kanzure> but that's just your ability to play games 05:50 < fenn> the goal can even be evaluated externally (make my boyfriend happy, get good grades) 05:51 < kanzure> sometime in 2004 I was going to write an rpg for a side-monitor that would give me points for checking stuff off of http://heybryan.org/todo.html 05:51 < kanzure> (of course, it was todo.hnb at that time, and I only did an html dump in 2005 or something) 05:51 < kanzure> lost the file in 2006 because I was stupid and wasn't doing daily backups 05:51 < fenn> lol rlrpg 05:51 < kanzure> yep 05:51 < fenn> harness the grinding instinct 05:51 < kanzure> whatever happened to that 'effortless economy' eh? 05:52 < kanzure> how could one moment of reality require any more effort than any other? /me is confused 05:52 < fenn> i believe it was stolen by Fanuc, Inc of Japan 05:53 < fenn> well, when you have to do something you dont want to do, and decide to do it anyway, it takes effort 05:54 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_function#Utility_functions 05:54 < kanzure> gah, anything that describes itself starting with microeconomics .. 05:55 < fenn> "consumption of various goods and services" is a really shitty description of utility 05:56 < fenn> basically utility is a quantifiable unit of happiness 05:57 < kanzure> how the hell is it quantifiable 05:57 < kanzure> deep stimulation electrodes or something? 05:57 < fenn> well, quantifying it is the hard part, and dont go off on some stupid wireheading tangent 05:58 < fenn> wireheading != happiness 05:58 < fenn> i dont care how many times the rat pushed the button 05:58 < kanzure> you have a better idea for physically quantifying this crap? 05:58 < kanzure> humans tend to claim it's pleasurable, which is semantic gatewayage or something 05:58 < kanzure> I also don't care about the button btw 05:59 < fenn> what context did utility come up in anyway? 05:59 < kanzure> rsi.pdf 06:00 < kanzure> mattmahoney is from the agi mailing list, full of annoying ideas I must admit 06:00 < kanzure> in this context 'utility functions' are mentioned side-by-side with ai all the time 06:01 < fenn> ah, well in this case you can consider 'utility' to be "having sucessfully satisfied a goal" 06:01 < fenn> unless your AGI has emotions or some crap 06:03 < fenn> wait, actually its more like the derivative of that 06:03 < fenn> bah, semantics 06:03 < kanzure> wtf? 06:03 < kanzure> this is pissing me off 06:04 < kanzure> I think this is one of the few areas in the realm of ideas that has a strong ability to really get me angry 06:05 < fenn> ok, here's where i goofed: supergoal is like your set of values, never to be questioned, it just "is" 06:05 < fenn> goals are tests of whether your situation satisfies the supergoal 06:05 < fenn> subgoals are steps towards goals 06:06 < fenn> so, utility is a measure of how useful something is in achieving your goal 06:07 < fenn> a tool you never thought about before can land in your lap, it has high utility but it was never a goal because you didnt know about its existence beforehand 06:07 < kanzure> rolleyes 06:08 < fenn> it's an ontology, whaddya want 06:11 < fenn> this looks pretty good for a wearable: 06:11 < fenn> http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7800 06:12 < kanzure> http://speedmodeling.org/smcfiles/kramer3d_niBCIcontrol.pdf bkero's two output mouse bci stuff 06:12 < kanzure> boots linux in 0.69s 06:12 < kanzure> hehe 06:12 < fenn> 4W power draw 06:13 < fenn> with FPGA!! 06:13 < kanzure> hrm 06:13 < kanzure> mini experiment board? 06:13 < fenn> and it should come with debian installed (if its anything like the other boards) 06:15 < fenn> i dont get why they show two mouse cursors? why not show a robot arm? 06:16 < kanzure> maybe this will help everyone out, 06:16 < kanzure> i'll go propose to the agi freaks that they construct a minimal goal system 06:17 < kanzure> just as there's the minimal cell project 06:17 < kanzure> minimal system that is known to have a 'goal' 06:17 < kanzure> whatever the hell it is 06:18 < fenn> heh i hope it's not the counting program 06:19 < kanzure> 'I was an experiment on the part of Nature, a gamble within the unknown, perhaps for a new purpose, perhaps for nothing, and my only task was to allow this game on the path of primeval depths to take its course, to feel its will within me and make it wholly mine. That or nothing!' - Emil Sinclair, Holocaust Century Eschatologist 06:20 * kanzure needs to find a quote from the wild 06:25 < kanzure> aha 06:25 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/wildness.html 06:26 < kanzure> or http://heybryan.org/quotes.html#wildness 06:30 < kanzure> I felt like that mostly because I see two possibilities here when it comes to RSI: 06:30 < kanzure> (1) the rsi.pdf mentions the problem that it's somewhat uncomputable and not guaranteed, so you could try to get this 'guarantee' through some other obscure mechanism and become a cult of sorts (oops), or 06:31 < kanzure> (2) you could opt to not puritanically enforce 'goalism' (whatever that is), but in the process of this lose such 'guarantees' 06:31 < kanzure> for this (#2), many would call you crazy gambling with so much 06:31 < kanzure> but I'm becoming increasingly confident of it being a good path 06:31 < kanzure> nsh might agree 06:31 < kanzure> poke 06:32 < fenn> if the AI is so smart it should be able to figure out what we wanted anyway 06:32 < kanzure> what? 06:32 < kanzure> what we wanted? 06:33 < fenn> "god, all this time i've been tiling the solar system with smiley faces, and they really just wanted to be happy, how stupid of me!" 06:33 < kanzure> paper clips, not smiley faces 06:33 < kanzure> but anyway 06:33 < fenn> smiley faces is better 06:33 < kanzure> paper clips is an actual reference to eliezer yudkowsky 06:33 < kanzure> or something 06:33 < kanzure> oh god. 06:35 < fenn> yeah he alternates between paperclips and smiley faces 06:36 < fenn> i wonder if "unbrickable design" means they'll give me another one if i break it 06:36 < kanzure> only if you brick it 06:36 < kanzure> or get bricked yourself, as you're using it as a wearable 06:37 < fenn> hmm, you mean it wont surround me with an invisible aura of unbrickableness? 06:38 < kanzure> you know, that's worth an email to their tech support 07:42 < kanzure> are there any meta-map APIs so that nobody has to spend all of their time with just Google Maps? 07:42 < kanzure> this was kind of the point of the AJAX libraries that popped up IIRC 07:52 < kanzure> interesting 07:52 < kanzure> irc channel on mindat.org #mindat 07:52 < kanzure> port 9610 07:56 < kanzure> 'Because this site contains the copyright material of other members, you agree not to try to extract information from this site for any other use than viewing of this website material. You are not allowed to archive significant portions of this site and you are not allowed to copy data from this site for use in any other product or website.' 07:56 < kanzure> stupid databases 07:57 < nsh> they can eat balls 07:57 < nsh> accessible == free, de facto 07:58 < nsh> don't put something on the web if you want to control it 08:01 < kanzure> http://www.mindat.org/min-124.html 08:01 < kanzure> me is wondering about extracting the information from their Google Maps widget thingy 08:02 < kanzure> http://www.mindat.org/cform/cform_client.js 08:02 < kanzure> yay lack of inline documentation 08:06 < kanzure> jack pot - http://www.mindat.org/gmjs-mineral.php?id=124 08:07 < kanzure> max is 223 08:13 < kanzure> Okay. I have the full data set for the location of minerals now. 08:13 < nsh> what you up to? 08:14 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/mindat_locations.zip 08:14 < fenn> all ur mineralz are belong to us 08:15 < kanzure> forking everyone since they won't do the Internet thing right 08:15 < fenn> but .. but.. you agree! you agree not o try to extract information~!!!! 08:16 < kanzure> it was kinda cute actually 08:16 < kanzure> when I wgetted the php scripts failed with some bad coding error 08:16 < kanzure> but user agent change fixed it 08:16 < kanzure> no rate limiting on the server, so the guy isn't all that serious 08:16 < fenn> i bet you're the first person to actually spider a mineral database 08:18 < kanzure> I was also thinking of making up some silly phylogenetics if people wanted to argue about the origin of minerals and materials and such 08:20 < biopunk> god made them 08:20 < kanzure> You know, technically, Google Maps has a Mars and Luna version .. no reason we can't start making up (perhaps imaginary for starters?) mineral deposits just to make a point (hey look, we can use teh codez!) 08:21 < kanzure> bigger challenge is extracting the metadata from each page 08:22 < kanzure> http://www.mindat.org/min-124.html 08:22 < biopunk> uri geller used to charge mineral companies for running a hand over a map and telling them where they shuoldn't drill 08:23 < biopunk> i love that hoax 08:23 < kanzure> I think it might be a wiki, but I don't see the "EDIT" button that the "ADD/EDIT" button's resulting page tells me of.. 08:23 < nsh> kanzure, have you checked Journal Citation Reports 08:23 < kanzure> Hm? 08:23 < nsh> for impact factor data 08:23 < kanzure> For impact factor? yeah 08:23 < kanzure> that's all in nasty pdfs IIRC 08:24 < kanzure> worth double checking eventually 08:24 < nsh> bah :-/ 08:24 < kanzure> "I mean neptune is like a huge CVD chamber" 08:49 < kanzure> http://www.perl.org.il/pipermail/perl/2003-March/001342.html <- WTF moron alert 08:49 < kanzure> ' Why 'Bad'? Again, if the file is 100 MB in size and I have 1 GB RAM, why is this a problem?' 08:49 < kanzure> bad bad bad bad 08:51 < kanzure> http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~help/faq/linux.html <-- maybe I have a user group nearby (don't bother clicking) 08:54 < kanzure> what are music blogs called? 08:54 < kanzure> mblogs? I know they have vblogs or something, but that's not what I need .. or I guess it could be, hrm. 08:54 < nsh> no idea, sorry 08:57 < willPow3r> mulogs 08:57 < willPow3r> actually no 08:57 < willPow3r> clogs 08:58 < kanzure> maddox said it first 08:58 < kanzure> re: clogs 08:59 < kanzure> Hrm, what encoding format is used for musical notes in MIDI? 08:59 < kanzure> http://interglacial.com/~sburke/midi-perl/ 08:59 < kanzure> Burke again? he seems prolific sorta 09:21 < nsh> http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/brewster_kahle_builds_a_free_digital_library.html 09:21 < nsh> ^^ gets it 09:24 < kanzure> the lib? 09:33 < kanzure> 'Fetched 29 MB in 39s" Bwahah. This can't get much better. Also, since when did kernel.org get bandwidth? 09:33 * nsh smiles 10:09 < bkero> kanzure__: <3 10:13 < bkero> perfect, but I'd need to run windows 10:16 < willPow3r> is <3 supposed to be a heart or saggy breasts? 10:17 < willPow3r> i never could figure that one out. 12:57 < willPow3r> http://kde-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=76662&file1=76662-1.jpg&file2=&file3=&name=Feed+Me+A+Fresh+Linux+Distro 13:10 < willPow3r> is there some way to use the guitar hero controller as a midi controller in reason? 13:27 < willPow3r> http://slapyak.wordpress.com/guitar-hero-midi-controller/ 13:27 < willPow3r> yep. sure can 15:05 < kanzure> todo 15:05 < kanzure> - make a bacteria sing on a blog (half way done) 15:06 < kanzure> - mindat rippage 15:06 < kanzure> unfortunately the bacteria song dataset was getting way too large and I had to killall -9 a few things 15:06 < kanzure> 'Actually, I remember reading something about scientists finding a list structure in the brain of a bird singing a song (a moving pointer to the next item in a list sort of thing). But whatever.' 15:06 < kanzure> Some guy on the AGI mailing list is still trying to prove to me the existence of 'goals' in the brain through 'motivation theory'. 15:07 < kanzure> 'When you imagine a goal-state, the relationship is represented in the brain somehow (in the neurons of course). And when evidence of the actualization of that goal-state comes in through the senses, the brains sends an opiate reward, which might make the person want to do whatever that was again in the correct context.' 15:07 < kanzure> yawn 15:07 < kanzure> 'Many things like this are known. And people don't need to understand such at the individual-neuron level to model what happens.' 15:07 < kanzure> I don't even know how to respond to this .. 15:34 < willPow3r> you respond with a 9mm round to the head 17:23 < kanzure> My grandmother is an ancient English/economics major who periodically sends me books that she has read that she really wants me to read too. 17:23 < kanzure> Today I received Vernor Vinge's latest "Rainbow's End". 17:24 < kanzure> grandma's kickin' it up a notch ;-) 17:25 < kanzure> http://vinay.howtolivewiki.com/blog/global/free-guptastan-583 17:25 < kanzure> yet another nation 17:25 < kanzure> hurray 17:27 < kanzure> http://armthevictims.org 17:28 < kanzure> we must all worship the church of the connection reset by peer! 17:30 * kanzure found a copy of Engineering Design: a materials and processing approach, Dieter 18:35 < kanzure> weird, the book cites stuff like '"Committee on Computer Aided Manufacturing"' which doesn't appear on the internet 18:35 < kanzure> so much for computer-aided 18:42 < kanzure> http://www.princeton.edu/~ota/ns20/topic_f.html Office of Technology Assessment, Congress, archived publications 19:04 < kanzure> Does anyone know the origin of the chair swing comic strip? The one illustrating how much everyone sucks. 19:22 < kanzure> Hah. The book is going through an example of the design of a ladle/hook for molten steel processing facilities. It worries me that this is all that the design is based on .. while it's good for a rough idea, something considered the backbone of many industries being so flaky on this aspect? wtf? 19:23 < kanzure> " In your professional career you will have the opportunity to create dozens of original designs" 19:23 < kanzure> hahah 19:25 < kanzure> just imagine the double digit possibilities! 19:45 < kanzure> Hm, wget doesn't like "#" in the URL string, even when escaped. 20:01 < kanzure> What a retarded dataset. The ASM needs some computer scientists to bitchslap them. 20:02 < kanzure> btw, incomplete datasets at the moment - asm, sciencedirect, mindat 20:10 < kanzure> I don't even know how to /fake/ turning this handbook dataset into xml 21:24 -!- h2i is now known as ybit 22:29 < kanzure> http://www.ilpi.com/msds/faq/partc.html 'The Defense Environmental Network & Information eXchange (DENIX) has draft DTD's (data type definitions) for MSDS's and they welcome your insight and input on the proposed standard. However, we have not noted any changes in this site (and therefore progress on the DTD) for several years. We have posted a request to their forum seeking further information.' 22:36 < kanzure> http://matml.org/ materials markup language 22:40 < kanzure> http://matdl.org/repository/index.php 22:41 < kanzure> http://matdl.org/repository/view/matdl:967 'building an international materials network' 22:41 < kanzure> unfortunately there's no data in the matdl repo 22:41 < kanzure> matdl.org repo 22:42 < kanzure> oh wait, nevermind 22:43 < kanzure> http://matdl.org/repository/view/matdl:860 <-- this isn't very helpful .. doesn't actually have any information about the item itself 22:44 < kanzure> http://www.matml.org/downloads/MatML3e1.xml <-- However, this does have some relevant tidbits. 22:48 < kanzure> so just like everything else it lacks inertia 22:48 < kanzure> http://matforge.org/ 22:48 < kanzure> http://matdl.org/matdlwiki/index.php/Main_Page 22:53 < kanzure> https://www.cmcrossroads.com/content/view/7768/96/ Making an XML bill of materials in GNU Make 22:56 < kanzure> http://www.openly.com/efirst/ what are they fussing about here? 23:02 < kanzure> http://www.ceramics.nist.gov/srd/scd/scdquery.htm structural ceramics db 23:05 < kanzure> hrm: SpectroML, UnitsML 23:06 < kanzure> http://unitsml.nist.gov/ 23:06 < kanzure> that last one would be useful if they actually got any work done 23:06 < kanzure> but I don't see anything on the site that suggests they are out of their 2006 planning stages 23:13 < kanzure> http://www.matweb.com/ 23:14 < kanzure> http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=9cfde6787ca84eda998ccd0be9745c8d&ckck=1 23:14 < kanzure> supposedly this site uses matml but I'm not seeing it 23:14 < kanzure> they offer a link to excel spreadsheet formats, wahoo? 23:19 < kanzure> The NIST guys were gong to convert SCD (structural ceramics db) and HTS (high-temperature superconducting materials db) into the MatML form to show that it's useful, but oddly enough even they knew that "It is likely that this challenge will have to be addressed by someone outside of NIST" (workshop.pdf) 23:20 < kanzure> R. G. Munro, NIST Ceramics Division => "NIST guys" 23:20 < kanzure> probably not just a simple conversion issue 23:23 < kanzure> http://www.ceramics.nist.gov/srd/scd/Z00133.htm <-- what a terrible format