--- Day changed Sun Sep 21 2008
00:03 < kanzure> hah
00:03 < kanzure> classic
00:03 < kanzure> pointing at a monitor
00:34 < kanzure> fenn: if you check wtf_2.html you'll see at line 471 that they have NOT going to the zen center today
03:19 < fenn> english spoken language is severely lacking in words to describe quantum phenomena
03:19 < kanzure> also, the tag is the most terrible abomination in the history of the web
03:19 < fenn> what about MySpace?
03:20 < kanzure> myspace utilizes the
03:20 < kanzure> so, by inheritance.
03:20 < fenn> they would have found a way to blink even without the tag
03:21 < kanzure> why couldn't *I* have written the 500 million dollar cesspool?
03:21 < kanzure> it's not like the scripts are particularly hard
03:21 < kanzure> select from db, post to db
03:21 < kanzure> nothing hard.
03:21 < fenn> its a network effect
03:21 < fenn> more people using makes more useful
03:22 < fenn> especially when it's set up so as not to be friendly with other social websites
03:22 < kanzure> how does that make sense anyway?
03:22 < fenn> data un-portability
03:22 < kanzure> wouldn't you have to be friendly
03:22 < fenn> vendor lock-in
03:22 < kanzure> to get the snowballing going?
03:22 < fenn> no
03:22 < kanzure> apparently not
03:22 < kanzure> but still
03:22 < kanzure> physical possibilities and all?
03:22 < fenn> because there aren't any other sites in the beginning anyway (nothing of consequence at least)
03:23 < kanzure> so
03:23 < kanzure> it's not like these websites are changing
03:24 < fenn> yeah yeah meta aggregate ghost layer yarr
03:24 < kanzure> why don't they just write bots/people to serve as the interfaces
03:24 < kanzure> yeah
03:24 < kanzure> okay
03:24 < kanzure> so it's been thought of
03:24 < kanzure> next subject.
03:24 < fenn> they do, as a result there's a massive spam problem in *-social website
03:24 < kanzure> we've been over this
03:24 < kanzure> heh'
03:24 < fenn> whuff
03:25 < kanzure> not whuffles though
03:25 * kanzure generally doesn't care about reputation economies
03:25 < fenn> you know, ustream's automatic censorship policy is 99 times better than #space's policy of forced self-censorship
03:25 < kanzure> #space has a forced policy of self-censorship?
03:25 < fenn> if you say a cuss word they will "remind" you that it's a "family oriented channel"
03:25 < kanzure> what the fuck?
03:26 < fenn> of course, calmly discussing mass genocide is apparently OK
03:26 < fenn> etc and so forth
03:26 < kanzure> family oriented
03:26 < fenn> the funny thing about trying to rid the language of cuss words is that new ones will always show ub
03:26 < kanzure> I assume means christian
03:26 < fenn> up
03:26 < fenn> no, i think it just means "no cuss words"
03:27 < fenn> also, ostensibly religion and politics are banned topics, but the enforcement is not up to par with cuss words
03:28 < kanzure> #space bans politics of space?
03:28 < fenn> i'm not sure
03:28 < fenn> there doesnt seem to be much conversation there except what i initiate
03:28 < kanzure> hah,
03:28 < kanzure> #space_politics
03:28 < kanzure> There's conversation there on a periodic basis when there's NASA streaming some videos
03:29 < fenn> right, there's that, and there's periodic weather-nerds and mars rover nerds
03:30 < fenn> but no discussion of technology or "wtf do we do now"
03:30 < fenn> which one would think is sort of crucial to space exploration/development
03:30 < kanzure> nobody remembers that NASA was a bunch of guys with rockets in their backyards at first
03:30 < fenn> actually they were airplane guys
03:30 < fenn> NACA
03:31 < kanzure> what about the original three?
03:31 < fenn> hence why we have a fucking airplane as a space shuttle
03:31 < kanzure> erm, well
03:31 < kanzure> heh
03:31 < fenn> where's my atomic rocket!
03:32 < kanzure> right where you left it
03:32 < kanzure> under the Jupiter brain
03:32 < fenn> take a left at Dry Wells, NM
03:32 < fenn>
03:32 < kanzure> Heinlein?
03:33 < kanzure> me fails
03:33 < fenn> i just watched it yesterday
03:34 < fenn> it was pretty good, given the budget constraints and no cold war and no space flight etc etc
03:34 < fenn> at no time was i like "pff thats ridiculous"
03:34 < fenn> unlike most hollywood movies today
03:35 < fenn> they forgot to show the scene at the end where everyone died of radiation poisoning though :P
03:36 < kanzure> I don't mean to be obvious, but have you noticed how terrible the storylines of the hollywood movies are now? we're not talking "Arnold can't possibly take 20,000 bullets in abs!"
03:36 < kanzure> but if you look at the superhero movies and the Omega Man movies etc., there's usually one phrase near the beginning that they always repeat at the end to give it some sort of story line.. like "you suck", then at the end "you no longer suck"
03:36 < kanzure> which is significantly worse than Arnold wrestling down an F18.
03:37 < kanzure> 'erm. sorry. rant ending.
03:40 < fenn> what was the scifi book where there was an infectious fungus whose spores grow in human lung tissue, rendering the planet inhabitable and driving humanity into sealed habitats?
03:41 < fenn> uninhabitable*
03:41 < fenn> that whole flammable/inflammable thing
03:41 < fenn> uninflammable?
03:43 < fenn> i think i learn fast because i have a fast "forgetting curve" i.e. if i learn something and don't hear about it ever again, i wont be able to summon up that memory as easily at a given later time
03:44 < fenn> as someone with a slower forgetting curve
03:46 < procto> fenn: probably means somethng is wrong with your hippocampus :)
03:46 < fenn> i wouldnt be surprised
03:46 < fenn> in high school i think i had several distinct personalities inhabiting me
03:47 < procto> DPD?
03:47 < fenn> i never went to a psychiatrist or anything, in fact i think i mostly expressed it through online role playing games
03:48 < fenn> it wasnt like a total blackout thing you see in movies
03:48 < procto> oh no, I'm quite familiar with DPD
03:48 < fenn> the theory i came up with was that my soul had gotten bored and abandoned my body, leaving it vacant, and then other opportunistic souls took up residence
03:49 < procto> "dissociatve personality disorder". what you see in the movies is the nonexistant "multiple personality disorder"
03:49 < procto> dissociative*
03:49 < fenn> but i functioned just fine and could summon (?) each personality at will
03:49 < procto> right
03:50 * fenn hates psychological phenomena labeled "disorder"
03:50 < procto> the DSM IV catalogues many so-called disorders. But the requirement for a diagnosis is that
03:50 < fenn> is that what?
03:50 < procto> it has to affect well-being significantly
03:50 < procto> everyone is a little bit of everything
03:50 < fenn> hrm. according to who?
03:50 < procto> a little bit schizophrenic, a little bit schizoid
03:51 < procto> well, usually according to the person experiencing the issues, combined with opinions of close humands as well as psychiatric personnel, which is totally not a perfect system
03:51 < procto> but the public's perception of the way psychiatric diagnosis is made is very skewed
03:51 < fenn> i was very surprised when (many years later) reading the falun gong book, which i suppose is derived from buddhist mythology, of snakes and foxes possessing people
03:51 < fenn> because two of my inhabitants were foxes and one was a snake? lizard thing
03:52 < procto> they thing somehow if you match a list of symptoms, bam you're suddenly a "schizophrenic" or maybe "schizoid" or whatever
03:52 < procto> think*
03:53 < procto> there is no such thing as an objective evaluation of such things
03:53 < procto> at the same time, there is a sort of fluid consensus reality
03:53 < fenn> "if it affects you" seems like it would have more to do with your environment and expectations than you personally
03:53 < procto> which moves back and forth
03:53 < kanzure> indeed
03:53 < procto> right, excatly
03:53 < fenn> but if my hippocampus is damaged, wtf does that have to do with public perceptions or not?
03:53 < procto> the issue is to observe the friction that your reality may experience with that so-called consensus reality
03:53 < fenn> either it's damaged or it isn't
03:54 < procto> that friction may at times grow very great
03:54 < procto> sometimes this may be merey as far as things such as social more
03:54 < kanzure> "your reality" is what now?
03:54 < fenn> this is why psychologists are a bunch of bullshit artists, because they make everything up on the spot
03:54 < fenn> then they parrot each other and call it science
03:54 < procto> although I rather distrust the general practice of psychology
03:55 < procto> but I would very strongly dispute that assertion
03:55 < procto> much of psychology borders on the pseduo-sciece
03:55 < procto> science*
03:55 < fenn> people still believe freud had something worthwhile
03:55 < procto> but there are many earnest, and more importantly, rigorous practioners
03:55 < procto> very few psychologists do these days
03:55 < fenn> religious practicioners
03:56 < procto> and those never graduate from accredited institutions (not that accreditation is something I rely on. I am merely making a point that it is a fringe idea within psychology as well)
03:56 < procto> in the general public freud gets much greater credence than among psychs
03:56 < procto> which is why there are psychoanalysts still. if there's demand, there will be supply.
03:57 < kanzure> the best psych would be an autist .. because he could be a fish, a turtle, or perhaps a kangaroo
03:57 < kanzure> hm
03:57 < kanzure> people screaming in hallway
03:57 < fenn> aroo? they should make a black market for psychoanalysts
03:57 < procto> I am no great defender of the field of psychology. I have been known to disparage it often.
03:57 < procto> Nevertheless, your assertions in regards to it are largely unfounded
03:58 < procto> to pop the conversational stack a few times
03:58 < procto> as is often the case, it boils down to an espitemological issue
03:58 < fenn> there is no definition of 'proper functioning' so there can be no diagnosis of 'improper functioning' hence the whole naming scheme of improper functioning they have created, which happens to be the entire foundation of their "science" is crap
03:59 < fenn> DSM = the codified naming scheme
03:59 < fenn> i challenge a psychologist to go five minutes without citing something from DSM
03:59 < procto> right. every DSM version that gets further ammended.
03:59 < procto> as I said, the DSM lists a lot of "disorders"
04:00 < procto> but just because you fit the symptoms for a "disorder" doesn't mean you've got a diagnosis
04:00 < fenn> it's a patchwork theory, a good sign that the whole field is rotten
04:00 < kanzure> psychology is more about (not) coping
04:00 < procto> the DSM is more for psychiatrists, btw
04:00 < procto> ok, all I'm getting here is blanket statements about a field... some of which I've shared in the past
04:00 < kanzure> drunk kids not cleaning up their bodily excess fluids it seems
04:01 < procto> psychology is at the taxonomy stage
04:01 < fenn> sorry i get them mixed up usually
04:01 < fenn> they're both bullshit fields
04:01 < procto> sciences go through the taxonomy stage, then the terminology stage
04:01 < kanzure> please stop.
04:01 < kanzure> heh'
04:01 < procto> before they can get to the theoretical stage.
04:01 < kanzure> there is no good that can come from this
04:02 < procto> first the domain must be mapped, hence taxonomy.
04:02 < fenn> i'm trying to figure out how to fix my life and also deal with the fact that psychologists are bullshit artists, so what am i supposed to do?
04:02 < kanzure> fenn: what happened to your computational universalism here, eh?
04:02 < kanzure> "the map is the territory" my ass.
04:02 < procto> just as with physics, many people kept making theories even while the main taxonomy stage was going on
04:02 < kanzure> fenn: fix what?
04:03 < fenn> well i sleep 12 hours a day, have zero motivation, eat way too much chocolate, and generally do nothing but surf the net
04:03 < kanzure> geeze, sounds like
04:03 < kanzure> everyone I know
04:03 < procto> so psychology is right now cataloging phenomena, and in the meantime people are trying to do both theoretical and practical things with what exists, to varying degrees of success
04:03 < fenn> telling me to 'get some exercise' is futile because i dont have the motivation to do that
04:03 < kanzure> steve is like that, mark is like that, I'm sort of like that - can't afford to be sleeping all the time of course (I'll give up Real Soon Now though),
04:03 < procto> don't have time to sleep
04:04 < procto> I work work work
04:04 < procto> I can't wait to graduate
04:04 < procto> so I can work some more
04:04 < kanzure> fenn: my point is that it's not something that needs to be fixe
04:04 < kanzure> fixed
04:04 < procto> I have a day job, and also a startup (working on it right now. I live at my CEO's over the weekends)
04:04 < kanzure> maybe you should just not be around people telling you to fix the unfixable
04:04 < fenn> kanzure: but the thing is i _want_ to do stuff, i dont want to just surf the net all day
04:04 < procto> well, if you think it should be fixed, it may be that you feel that you could increase your utlity?
04:05 < kanzure> fenn: you want to do, what?
04:05 < procto> fenn: I've experienced a very similar state during my 2nd year of college.
04:05 < fenn> i have a list of projects 5 pages long, career-ish aspirations, transhuman aspirations
04:05 < procto> I took a year off and started working.
04:05 < kanzure> fenn: and why aren't they being done?
04:05 < procto> that's where I gained my motivation
04:05 < kanzure> technical problems, yes?
04:06 < fenn> because i sit there and stare at things for two hours and then realize i havent done anything and go lay down for a while
04:06 < procto> I met people who didn't evaluate me based on arbitrary critera, but rather on the quality of my output
04:06 < kanzure> the person taking care of steve, Amy
04:06 < kanzure> Amy was in college, she was in college twice
04:06 < kanzure> the first time around she became "ill"
04:06 < kanzure> in the autistic sort of way
04:06 < kanzure> she literally stayed in bed and didn't move for a few months
04:06 < fenn> ouch
04:06 < kanzure> she might not be the most qualified person to take care of him of course, but she seems to be doing ok now
04:07 < kanzure> steve's so much fun.
04:07 < kanzure> in the sense that I think he could match the 2 hours of staring with 16 hours of staring or something
04:07 < fenn> hrm
04:08 < fenn> this guy saul griffith seems to get a ton of shit done
04:08 < kanzure> saul works down the hall from our CBA contact, or something
04:08 < fenn> and still be interesting and cool and stuff
04:08 < kanzure> eh?
04:08 < fenn> bleh, i dont want to gush about saul griffith
04:08 < procto> ah, I met griffith's HowToons partner a few weeks ago
04:08 < kanzure> fenn: have you tried speed?
04:09 < procto> I'd recommend modafinil over speed
04:09 < fenn> no, should I? what is speed exactly anyway, and why is it illegal in some forms and legal in other?
04:09 < procto> modafinil has nearly no side effects
04:09 < kanzure> I'm on adderall XR for what it's worth, it's some d-amphetamines which is a form of speed
04:09 < kanzure> speed is illegal mostly because methamphetamine is addictive and usually laced with shit
04:09 < fenn> i'm not convinced it solves anything, honestly
04:10 < fenn> name one project you've completed in the last month
04:10 < procto> amphetamines have more "physiological" effects
04:10 < kanzure> fenn: schedule optimizer
04:10 < procto> so hence, I recommend modafinil
04:10 < procto> it gives focus and definition
04:10 < kanzure> are you looking for "results" like "project completion" ?
04:10 < procto> without affecting your perceptions
04:10 < kanzure> that's down the dark side o the force
04:11 < fenn> does nsh do modafinil too?
04:11 < kanzure> hm
04:11 < kanzure> nsh might be naturally extropic or whatever you want to call it
04:11 < fenn> kanzure: i'm looking for results like, "ah, that was a good day" at least once a week
04:11 < fenn> not, "gee what did i do this year anyway"
04:11 < procto> modafinil is basically "anti boredom"
04:12 < kanzure> procto: fenn could be stimulated by a leaf for a few hours on end
04:12 < kanzure> it's not quite the same thing as flat out boredom methinks
04:12 < fenn> that sounds vaguely sexual
04:12 < kanzure> uhm
04:12 < kanzure> not in that way
04:12 < procto> well, I'm sure that can be arranged too
04:12 < kanzure> anyway, the boredom that children complain about is kind of the same thing, kind of not
04:12 < kanzure> right?
04:13 < fenn> its not boredom, its like i'm turned around inside and pushing against myself
04:13 < kanzure> is it the same as when I'm on/off my medication?
04:13 < kanzure> i.e., when I revoke my thinking license for the night
04:13 < fenn> i dont know, what's the difference?
04:13 < kanzure> you guys haven't noticed?
04:13 < kanzure> hm.
04:13 < fenn> sometimes you spew massive quantities of links and sometimes you just talk
04:14 < kanzure> Heh, "the two modes of Bryan". No, that's not it.
04:14 < kanzure> it's usually when I start to forget everything that I was thinking about earlier in the day
04:14 < kanzure> talking in circles or trying to remember how to solve a particularly ridiculous semantic problem
04:15 < kanzure> it's also the part of the day when I start wandering around pacing trying to figure out what to do
04:15 < fenn> i chalked that up to the whole feynman "get a bunch of things bumping around in your head" phase
04:15 < kanzure> chalked?
04:16 < fenn> categorized
04:16 < kanzure> you'd think that after all of these years that I'd have some mechanism constructed to prevent these situations of "what to do what to do" pacing periods, but I've slowly come to the realization that the medication actually helps to solve that problem sort of
04:16 < kanzure> I mean, I could think of a million ways to solve that problem
04:16 < kanzure> i.e., todo lists
04:16 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/todo.html <- massive todo lists
04:16 < kanzure> but as it turns out, those only work when, surprise, I'm on adderall
04:16 < kanzure> huh
04:17 < fenn> yes i would call "what to do what to do" boredom, and that's not a problem for me usually
04:17 < kanzure> hm
04:17 < kanzure> so you know what to do, all that's left is actually doing it, and you don't want to go do these things?
04:17 < fenn> very easily pacified with a dose of wikipedia :\
04:17 < kanzure> random surfing doesn't count
04:17 * kanzure hasn't learned to randomly surf when I hit these points of his days
04:17 < kanzure> maybe this is a good thing ;-)
04:18 < fenn> t0day i read about "cargo cults"
04:18 < kanzure> cargo cults?
04:18 * kanzure goes to --
04:18 < kanzure> ah, you're sly.
04:18 < fenn> in vanuatu they airdropped all sorts of cargo during WWII for the american soldiers
04:19 < fenn> there came about a religion whereby through imitating american soldiers one could attract the cargo, which came from ancestor spirits of course
04:19 < procto> not just vanuatu
04:19 < procto> they're still quite big in papua new guinea
04:19 < fenn> so they built mock airstrips and radios out of coconuts and bamboo
04:19 < fenn> yes, this is a general phenomenon, extending way beyond just islanders
04:19 < procto> they are especially common in countries with english-based creoles
04:19 < procto> hence vanuatu, where they speak bislama, and papua new guinea, where they speak Tok Pisin
04:20 < fenn> often extending to consumer psychology, corporate culture, and religion in general
04:20 < procto> right
04:20 < procto> it's the confusion of correlation for causation
04:20 < procto> it's a very very general bias
04:20 < procto> that's evolved into us, for increased fitness :)
04:20 < fenn> yay bayesian integrators!
04:22 < fenn> then i tacked over to 'guns germs and steel' which is about why the europeans had all the technology in the first place, and from there to the lost mystical science of Geography, which is the basis for me wanting to move to Iceland
04:23 < kanzure> #wrongplanet.chat/2008-05-08.223020-0500CDT.txt:(2008-05-09 00:25:10) Superkuh: I mean to say that I have no motivation to do anything and am fine with it. ;)
04:23 < kanzure> He has learned the secret! Stone him!
04:23 < fenn> fling poo!
04:24 < kanzure> of all things? why poo?
04:24 < ybit> modafinil
04:24 < ybit> oh how i miss it
04:24 < ybit> i get it in a month
04:24 < fenn> kanzure: it's a very.. primate.. thing
04:24 < kanzure> but the stones
04:24 < kanzure> the mass.
04:24 < ybit> haven't been on modafinil since finding this channel
04:24 < ybit> sadly
04:24 < fenn> let's compromise with pretified dinosaur dump
04:24 < ybit> the todo lists do indeed get completed
04:24 < fenn> petrified*
04:25 < kanzure> ybit: And are the days good days?
04:25 < ybit> yes
04:25 < ybit> i had a massiver turnaround
04:25 < ybit> changed my major
04:25 < ybit> moved to a new city
04:25 < fenn> after taking modafinil?
04:25 < kanzure> hah
04:25 < kanzure> that's some powerful superdrug :p
04:25 < fenn> hey it could happen
04:25 < kanzure> will it teleport me off this rock?
04:26 < fenn> no, you need salvia divinorum for that
04:26 < kanzure> that's still not illegal?
04:26 < fenn> dunno
04:26 < ybit> was working with a friend on something similar to yacy, met phreedom and we discussed freefab intensely.. then it ran out... and i was in a bigger city, and became depressed and moved back home
04:26 < kanzure> I know somebody I was living with in palo alto had tried it before
04:26 < kanzure> michael, namely
04:27 < kanzure> depressed?
04:27 < kanzure> world's going to end and all that?
04:27 < fenn> i'm sort of concerned about taking mood altering drugs and having my personality completely wiped out/unrecognizable
04:27 < fenn> kanzure: anissimov?
04:27 < kanzure> fenn: yeah
04:27 < fenn> zoinks
04:27 < kanzure> fenn: yeah to both.
04:28 < kanzure> It's not so much personality wipe out as it is transhuman upgrade I guess
04:28 < ybit> it was a combination of a girlfriend's death, lots of marijuana, antidepressants, and eventually modafinil that led me to where i am now
04:28 < fenn> i'm confused, you're both saying 1) depression 2) modafinil... happy 3) no modafinil depressed again, right?
04:28 < kanzure> nope,
04:28 < kanzure> I'm not saying any depression
04:29 < ybit> i was just thinking that i do need it because my memory feels shot without it
04:29 < fenn> what do you mean "depressed? worlds going to end and all that?" then?
04:29 < ybit> and i'm so much slower at performing tasks
04:29 < kanzure> fenn: ybit mentioned depression
04:29 < kanzure> fenn: so I was wondering what he meant by depression.
04:29 < kanzure> my dad thought I had depression
04:30 < kanzure> before he learned about asperger's
04:30 < kanzure> and then it was like a saint had touched his shoulders as he began to understand
04:30 < kanzure> this was after he kicked me out of the house
04:30 < fenn> oh, it's very hard to categorize depression, i think its a bad bit of folk psychology
04:30 < ybit> though modafinil also may be used depression possibly
04:30 < ybit> i did have depression
04:30 < fenn> not helped by megapharm corp ssri market
04:31 < ybit> you probably have a point
04:31 < fenn> lol kanzure people often become much more tolerable when you dont have to live with them
04:31 < kanzure> ah.
04:31 < ybit> not sure when i became bipolar though, it was recently diagnosed
04:32 < fenn> kanzure: did anissimov say how modafinil affected his life?
04:32 * ybit guesses the religious experience
04:32 < kanzure> fenn: he was doing salvia for a while
04:32 < fenn> i think he would be excommunicated if he claimed having a religious experience
04:32 < kanzure> not modafinil
04:33 < fenn> oh, ok, total crossed signals then
04:33 < kanzure> you also crossed signals on the depression bit
04:33 < ybit> my friend is supposed to send me a paper he wrote during college showing the correlation between religious children and mental disorders
04:33 < ybit> manic*
04:33 < kanzure> correlation between religious children and ..
04:33 < kanzure> was it good statistics, i.e. adjusting for the relative size of religious v. nonreligious children?
04:34 < ybit> eh, mania
04:34 < kanzure> by 'religious' I suppose I mean religious parents, i.e. even parents that are first-generation atheists.
04:34 < kanzure> or agnostics.
04:34 < ybit> good question, haven't seen it yet
04:34 < kanzure> anyway, that's a hard study to do correctly
04:34 < kanzure> (correct in the statistical sort of way)
04:34 < ybit> ah wait, it was kids in cults
04:34 < ybit> religious cults
04:35 < ybit> which is also hard to specify
04:35 < kanzure> fenn: oh wait, that kuhquote is out of context
04:35 < kanzure> his next message was
04:35 < kanzure> #wrongplanet.chat/2008-05-08.223020-0500CDT.txt:(2008-05-09 00:26:43) Superkuh: JoeLlama: Today I made a magetic stirrer for yeast cultures for making beer.
04:35 < kanzure> so surely that day doesn't count.
04:36 < ybit> kanzure, did Mind say he would interview you another time since you two weren't able to do it today?
04:37 < kanzure> Perhaps.
04:37 < kanzure> uhm, I think he said yes
04:37 < ybit> good
04:38 < fenn> good old videophones dont transcribe so well
04:38 < kanzure> agreed.
04:38 < fenn> honestly, how do all those blind genius _cope_?
04:38 < kanzure> euclid etc.?
04:38 < fenn> genii?
04:38 < kanzure> fenn: ever read erdos' biography?
04:38 < fenn> no
04:38 < kanzure> "The Man Who Loved Only Numbers"
04:38 < fenn> was he blind?
04:38 < kanzure> no, but hold on
04:39 < kanzure> one day his good friend bet him to not take his amphetamine for an entire month
04:39 < kanzure> and see if his ideas would still flow and work and so on
04:39 < kanzure> and so, Erdos, having the ego that he did, took the bet
04:39 < kanzure> (for something like $10 or something? it was the 1970s)
04:39 < kanzure> anyway,
04:39 < kanzure> he commented that he would wake up and his ideas simply wouldn't flow
04:39 < ybit> are you using konversation as your chat client now? [kanzure]
04:39 < kanzure> and he would just stare at the paper for many hours
04:40 < kanzure> ybit: no, I'm using pidgin
04:40 < ybit> oh
04:40 < kanzure> so once the bet was over he took the damn money and went back on the meds
04:40 < fenn> often there is a U+FEFF character at the beginning of the line
04:40 < kanzure> my line?
04:40 < fenn> its some kind of unicode byte order verifier
04:40 < kanzure> are my lines bad?
04:41 < fenn> supposed to be a space but shows up as a dotted square in xterm, but otherwise no problem at all
04:41 < kanzure> I sometimes see it in pidgin for weird reasons
04:41 < fenn> so, er, how are amphetamines different from other vasodilators?
04:42 < fenn> like, say, caffiene
04:42 < kanzure> caffeine seems to have the exact opposite effect on me
04:42 < kanzure> namely sleepiness
04:43 < fenn> grragg fscking caffiene fucked up my spelling
04:43 < fenn> the person, not the chemical
04:43 < kanzure> are you seeing people?
04:44 < kanzure> in particular, mr.caffiene
04:44 < fenn> seeing people? as in, romantically? (no)
04:45 < fenn> its that his nick is intentionally spelled wrong and i've typed it so many times i spell the word wrong now
04:45 < kanzure> as in, schizophrenic visions of mr.caffiene
04:45 < kanzure> oh, it's a person on irc?
04:45 < fenn> ya
04:45 * kanzure didn't know
04:45 < kanzure> could have been somebody from the history books
04:45 < kanzure> that's what I was thinkig.
04:45 < kanzure> *thinking.
04:45 < fenn> i lost the spelling bee because of the ie ei thing
04:45 < fenn> i spelled it 'protien'
04:46 < fenn> perfectly logical of course, but worng
04:46 < kanzure> narf
04:46 < fenn> they werent very big on etymology
04:47 < fenn> spelling is useless without etymology anyway
04:47 < fenn> otherwise just use the IPA
04:47 < fenn> or bastard alphabets like katakana
04:48 * kanzure wanted to learn katakana, thinking it was the japanese's mandarin english fix
04:48 < kanzure> but that has multiple things wrong with it
04:48 < kanzure> namely, mandarin is chinese, not a chinese-to-english fix
04:48 < fenn> confused mandarin with pidgin?
04:49 < kanzure> maybe?
04:49 < kanzure> I thought pidgin was some islander language
04:49 < ybit> fenn, what do you use to scan your books?
04:49 < fenn> pidgin is simplified english used by many island cultures
04:49 < fenn> and chinese
04:49 < fenn> or something
04:49 < kanzure> there's a text-fix for chinese, is what I mean
04:49 < kanzure> there's a text fix for japanese, I know that much
04:49 < fenn> oh, like guo biao?
04:49 < kanzure> we see it all the time on lyrics sites
04:49 < kanzure> guo biao? maybe.
04:49 < fenn> romaji?
04:49 < kanzure> romanification sounds closer
04:49 < kanzure> so probably, yes.
04:49 < fenn> romaji is japanese written with roman characters, like 'konichi wa'
04:50 < kanzure> yes
04:50 < fenn> actually it should be konnichi wa
04:50 < ybit> even though to type it out it's "kon'nichiha"
04:50 < fenn> you can type wa right?
04:51 < kanzure> I thought so.
04:51 * kanzure knows a little. :)
04:51 < ybit> ????? = kon'ichiha ????? = kon'nichiwa
04:51 < fenn> dammit xterm is supposed to understand unicode so why doesnt that work
04:52 < ybit> nichiha*
04:52 < kanzure> works in pidgin
04:52 < fenn> works when i paste into another xterm
04:52 < kanzure> wtf?
04:52 < fenn> probly some screen nonsense
04:52 < fenn> yep
04:53 < kanzure> charlie wants me to start a local transhuman group
04:53 < fenn> DO EET
04:53 * ybit needs a book scanner and binding machines
04:53 < ybit> -a
04:53 < ybit> and um, scanning*
04:53 * kanzure needs an automated page flipping mechanism and webcam
04:54 < fenn> book scanner, ok, why binding?
04:54 * kanzure doesn't actually need a webcam
04:54 < ybit> so i can bind the pages of the paper i print
04:54 < fenn> 5MP camera works pretty well for digitizing text (OCR)
04:54 < kanzure> ocr hardly works last I tried it
04:54 < fenn> ybit: but why would you print books if you're trying to get rid of them by digitizing them?
04:54 < kanzure> with the google tools
04:55 < fenn> google has ocr tools?
04:55 < kanzure> in their code repository
04:55 < kanzure> their 'official' ocr projects
04:55 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/projects/autoscholar/ the image has a reference to the name of the ocr project
04:55 < Nofaris_> kanzure is an aspie?
04:55 < fenn> i used some adobe thingy in 2002-2003 and it worked pretty well (typewriter font)
04:56 < fenn> kanzure wishes he were an aspie
04:56 < Nofaris_> lol
04:56 < Nofaris_> I kind of do as well
04:56 < Nofaris_> give me an excuse.
04:56 < ybit> i'm not trying to get rid of the books, i simply borrow them from libraries, scan them, and when i'm ready to read, print them out. i prefer regular books when reading for long periods, otherwise i get distracted on a computer ("oooh buttons, let's play")
04:56 < fenn> those damned newtypes get all the glory
04:57 < ybit> though, if i can find a decent ebook reader maybe, i might not print them out
04:57 < fenn> ybit: why not just get them from library when ready to read them?
04:57 < ybit> the olpc would do such a thing
04:57 < kanzure> Nofaris_: I'm technically diagnosed as ADHD, and fenn's observation is more or less correct.
04:58 < ybit> or i could do that, and if i remember a line or a phrase, search for it after scanning
04:58 < ybit> suppose that makes sense
04:58 < ybit> -bookbinding
04:58 < fenn> ybit: http://positron.org/projects/A51/
04:59 < fenn> unfortunately the evil corporate empires of Amazon and Sony have prohibited such coolness from ever arriving at your doorstep
04:59 < kanzure> now charlie wants to name my transhuman group
04:59 < fenn> pinky and the bryan
05:00 < fenn> maybe that's too cult-of-bryan
05:02 < ybit> fenn: http://spectrum.ieee.org/sep08/6765
05:02 < ybit> would prefer one of those
05:02 < ybit> the tft display looks too much like a typical display on mobile devices
05:03 < kanzure> fenn: I don't want a cult-of-bryan .. I'm already bryan, I want more/better.
05:03 < fenn> ybit: it's not a typical tft lcd, it's e-ink man!
05:03 < ybit> :)
05:03 < fenn> electric paper
05:03 < fenn> latex microspheres coated with polarized black ink on one side
05:04 < fenn> turn off the power and nothing happens
05:04 < fenn> reflects ambient light
05:05 < kanzure> so, names?
05:05 < kanzure> I would rather have no name, of course
05:05 < kanzure> but this makes it hard to talk about things
05:05 < fenn> plastic logic's big thing is flexible transistors
05:05 < fenn> they partnered with e-ink for obvious reasons
05:05 < ybit> "all hail __ group"
05:06 < kanzure> "We're all individuals!" "I'm not!"
05:06 < kanzure> "Yes! We're _all_ individuals."
05:06 < ybit> eh, forgive the mispelling
05:06 < ybit> don't beat me please
05:06 < ybit> hehehe
05:07 < fenn> is this the jewish peoples liberation front?
05:07 < ybit> fuck no!
05:07 < kanzure> piss off, we're the people's front of judiah
05:07 < ybit> or that
05:07 < kanzure> people's front? I thought we were the popular front
05:07 < kanzure> no
05:07 < kanzure> he's over there
05:07 < kanzure> splitter!
05:07 < ybit> :P
05:07 < kanzure> those men are gods.
05:08 < fenn> the other day i saw "excalibur"
05:08 < fenn> suddenly it all made sense
05:08 < kanzure> hm?
05:08 < fenn> its a terrible king arthur movie
05:08 < fenn> all completely serious of course
05:08 < fenn> but every scene i expect them to break out into some monty python skit
05:09 < fenn> "WHAT is the purpose of the Grail?"
05:09 < kanzure> how about
05:09 < fenn> "WHO does the Grail serve?"
05:09 < kanzure> 'transhuman commons' ?
05:09 < kanzure> That's sufficiently vague, right?
05:09 < fenn> the word "transhuman" sucks
05:09 < kanzure> 'people's augmentation front' would be cool too
05:10 < fenn> Front of Augmenting People!
05:10 < fenn> sorry, bad acronym pun
05:10 < kanzure> heh
05:11 < fenn> oops did i kill it
05:11 < kanzure> I probably need to do a recursive acronym or risk being slain by the gnu hurds
05:11 < ybit> fenn: thanks for the A51 link, there are some interesting projects there
05:11 < fenn> indeed
05:12 < fenn> i think it probably looks not quite as cool close up, due to the way laser cutters work
05:12 * ybit gets some sleep before his Spanish lesson in the morning
05:12 < ybit> unaffiliated with the university of course
05:12 < fenn> buona notte
05:12 * ybit waves goodnight
05:12 < fenn> i mean, buenos nachos
05:13 < kanzure> noches
05:13 < ybit> buenas noches*
05:13 < kanzure> buenas? really?
05:13 < kanzure> not buenos?
05:13 < fenn> noche is feminine
05:14 < kanzure> huh.
05:14 < kanzure> makes sense.
05:14 < fenn> i guess
05:14 < kanzure> well, which would you prefer, you see
05:14 < fenn> the whole concept of gendered nouns always seemed a bit silly to me
05:14 < kanzure> 'synthetic commons'
05:14 < kanzure> how about that?
05:14 < fenn> like, is a fire truck male or female?
05:14 < fenn> well, it depends if it has a hose or not!
05:14 < kanzure> rosa is red, so it's female
05:15 < fenn> el camion, la camioneta
05:15 < fenn> truck and pickup, respectively
05:16 < fenn> after learning spanish, english-speakers' misuse of the subjunctive tense started to annoy me
05:16 < kanzure> hahah
05:16 < kanzure> 'synthetic commons'
05:17 < kanzure> first result is Kaitlin Thaney
05:17 < kanzure> if you remember, I met Kaitlin up in California
05:17 < fenn> yep
05:18 < fenn> i am male after all
05:18 < kanzure> good, good
05:21 < fenn> describing a 'commons' as 'anything the king doesnt want' seems rather medieval
05:23 < fenn> it doesnt really capture the essence of "this thing we are building together"
05:23 < kanzure> that group is still rather mysterious to me
05:23 < kanzure> maybe I'm just inheriting typical woman-mystique subroutines or something
05:24 < fenn> what group?
05:24 < kanzure> the creative commons people
05:24 < kanzure> she was being flown around 10,000 miles in 8 days to speak at something like a bajillion conferences
05:24 < kanzure> everybody was floored when she started citing her itinerary
05:25 < kanzure> CBA tells me that "the creative commons is like google except less ambitious"
05:25 < fenn> er, where does that money come from?
05:25 < kanzure> but they're fairly damn ambitious
05:25 < kanzure> yeah
05:25 < kanzure> that's what I want to know.
05:25 < fenn> does it all just go into publicity?
05:25 < kanzure> not really
05:25 < kanzure> if you'll remember, ybit's find of neurocommons and their Google Moupse project
05:25 < kanzure> is an example
05:25 < kanzure> turns out Alan, who ybit and I have spoken with, is Kaitlin's coworker etc.
05:26 < fenn> i know PLoS is mostly funded by NSF
05:27 < kanzure> whenever the creative commons shows up somewhere, in person, it always seems like they're working on "something big"
05:27 < kanzure> but they never quite say what or how they're going about it
05:27 < fenn> hah
05:27 < fenn> because their strategy is the reprap 'throw it into the wild an see what happens'
05:27 < fenn> i guess
05:28 < kanzure> don't you have an addiction to cc music or something?
05:28 < fenn> they always seemed like a competitor because of the whole 'which license should i choose, creative commons or GNU-*" thing
05:28 < kanzure> right
05:28 < fenn> no, i dont go out of my way to observe copyright law, unless it's computer code related
05:28 < kanzure> "they're like google but not .. because they only want everything to be free"
05:29 < fenn> but they watered down their name with "a license for everybody" even slaving capitalist scum
05:29 < fenn> enslaving
05:30 < fenn> malglico
05:30 < kanzure> hrm
05:31 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/art/ <-- Since I haven't uploaded my art collection in a while.
05:32 < fenn> its just a bunch of squares circles and triangles!
05:32 < kanzure> don't you mock me.
05:32 < fenn> is this markram? http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/art/tools3.jpg
05:33 < fenn> or is that some silly paint smeared on canvas stuff
05:35 * fenn has a suspicion this is just all the images kanzure has downloaded
05:35 < kanzure> unfortuantely it's not.
05:35 < kanzure> to the second.
05:35 < kanzure> to the first, I seem to recall it being smeared, but mentioned on or near a page of markram
05:36 < fenn> i added to my bookmarks: http://fenn.freeshell.net/bookmarks.html
05:36 * fenn doubts anyone cares
05:36 < kanzure> unknown host
05:36 < fenn> hmm
05:36 < kanzure> added what to your bookmarks?
05:37 < fenn> http://fenn.freeshell.org/bookmarks.html
05:37 < fenn> an extra year's worth of crap
05:37 * fenn yawns
05:37 < kanzure> can you give me the adr instead?
05:37 < fenn> it's not an extensive catalog like your monstrosity, just things i find interesting
05:38 < kanzure> the internet archive is ran by aspies.
05:38 < kanzure> or more severe autists. I haven't figured that one out yet
05:39 < fenn> it goes with the job i think (librarian)
05:39 < fenn> how could it be any other way?
05:39 < fenn> try this http://fenn.freeshell.org/bookmarks-09-20-08.adr
05:39 < kanzure> oops
05:40 < kanzure> stupid piece of crap
05:40 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/art2/ more (27 MB more ..)
05:40 < kanzure> erm
05:40 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/art/art2/ more (27 MB more ..)
05:41 * fenn sets to downloading
05:42 < kanzure> you really want to?
05:42 * fenn shrugs
05:42 < kanzure> easy to delete I guess
05:42 < fenn> gqview is so fast it's like flipping through a book
05:42 < kanzure> I just use kde's image viewer
05:42 < kanzure> easy left/right arrow functionality
05:43 < fenn> gwenview?
05:43 < fenn> or kuickshow
05:43 < kanzure> 'eog'
05:44 < fenn> you mean EYE OF GNOME?
05:44 < fenn> heretic!
05:44 < kanzure> wtf
05:45 < kanzure> I should have noticed that it's gtk
05:45 < kanzure> it's not like this blends in with the qt stuff
05:45 < fenn> nothing wrong with gtk, its the gnome that bothers me
05:46 < kanzure> what? why?
05:46 < kanzure> am I mixing stuff when I'm not supposed to be?
05:46 < fenn> the 5000 multiply dependent packages that all install a bunch of cartoony crap even though i just wanted a spreadsheet app
05:47 < fenn> gnome in itself isnt too bad (if you dont know any other way)
05:47 < fenn> but i try to keep my system free of the infestation
05:48 < fenn> i like to know what every package does
05:50 < kanzure> so either you're a minimalist or you just like to overload yourself
05:51 < marainein> hey, have you guys seen this talk?: http://www.vimeo.com/1427419
05:51 < marainein> (it's a proposal to destroy lipofuscin with lasers)
05:52 < kanzure> Not quite yet.
05:52 < fenn> kanzure: think of it as LysoSENS for computers :)
05:52 < kanzure> I'm totally blanking out on lipofuscin. /me hits Google Scholar
05:52 < marainein> the stuff that lysosens is gonna target
05:52 < fenn> is there a way to download vimeo clips without registering?
05:52 < marainein> inside lysosomes
05:53 < marainein> i don't remember registering
05:53 < fenn> i mean download, not just view in a browser with a flash plugin that doesnt really work right
05:53 < kanzure> fenn: I wish I knew all man pages for all packages installed.
05:53 < marainein> I don't know
05:54 * fenn just reads the abstract on the page
05:55 < kanzure> apt-get show blah?
05:55 < fenn> lipofuscin stuff
05:57 < fenn> hmm 1/10 full power explodes worms
05:57 < kanzure> microwave?
05:58 < marainein> laser
05:58 < marainein> the lipofuscin in old worms absorbs it
05:58 < marainein> and they explode
05:58 < marainein> but young worms don't
05:58 < bkero> kanzure: My lain dir?
05:58 < kanzure> meep, yes
06:00 < marainein> the laser will only penetrate about an inch through tissue at the wavelength they want, so an obvious problem is how to get it inside a human
06:00 < fenn> stick it up yer ass
06:01 < kanzure> good news! it's a supository
06:02 < fenn> do different organs accumulate lipofuscin at different rates?
06:03 < marainein> i think non dividing tissue has higher levels than dividing tissue
06:04 < fenn> brain, retina, and (other internal organs)
06:04 < fenn> not sure i want an unfocused laser pulse in my eye
06:05 < fenn> and brain surgery sucks in general
06:05 < marainein> apparently it's already been done
06:05 < marainein> "Ophthalmology research has shown that pulsed lasers selectively destroy aged Retinal Pigment Epithelial (RPE) cells that are loaded with lipofuscin, allowing new lipofuscin-free cells to repopulate the RPE, effectively rejuvenating the tissue."
06:09 < marainein> as i understand it, the lipofuscin has a different absorbance spectrum to normal body molecules, which is why a laser on that wavelength will target it only, and not damage anything else
06:11 < Nofaris_> So awesome
06:13 < fenn> lipofuscin is sort of purplish brown
06:15 < fenn> retinal pigments in general have a different absorbance spectrum to normal body molecules
07:01 < kanzure> '(2008-09-21 02:03:52) maradydd: i'm going to need some controller logic for this electroporator, and i like the idea of building something that i can solder together and then forget about, rather than doing it all in software'
07:01 < kanzure> from over in #diybio
07:02 < kanzure> just because you're all lazy
07:02 < kanzure> except ybit, bkero, and procto
07:06 < kanzure> 'In a New York Times interview in April 1969, Alden Whitman asked writer Vladimir Nabokov: "How do you rank yourself among writers (living) and of the immediate past?" Nabokov answered: "I often think there should exist a special typographical sign for a smile -- some sort of concave mark, a supine round bracket, which I would now like to trace in reply to your question."'
07:07 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon
07:07 < kanzure> Fahlman is never ,ever going to be known for anything else.
07:07 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Fahlman
07:07 < kanzure> Poor guy.
07:08 < kanzure> 'Fahlman received his bachelor's degree and master's degree in 1973 from MIT, and his Ph.D. from MIT in 1977. His thesis advisors were Drs Gerald Sussman and Marvin Minsky.'
07:08 < kanzure> I knew it. Minsky's been trying to do ai with :-) alone.
07:11 < kanzure> http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~sef/sefSmiley.htm
08:03 < kanzure> from Tony's end of the world
08:03 < kanzure> http://maps.google.com/maps?cbp=1,361.5599999999999,,0,5&cbll=-37.829295,144.984678&ll=-37.829295,144.984678&layer=c
08:03 < kanzure> click north arrow on the street viewer
11:00 < kanzure> nsh!
11:00 < kanzure> you weren't hit by a hurricane
11:00 < kanzure> so what's your excuse?
11:00 < nsh> friends visited from the uk
11:00 < kanzure> kind of boring.
11:00 < nsh> also, no internet in my new squat^Wflat
11:00 < nsh> relatively :-)
11:09 < nsh> any developments?
11:10 < kanzure> we've been making bets on your (lack of?) use of drugs
11:13 < nsh> how's fat's the pot?
11:13 * nsh chuckles at own wit
11:13 < nsh> *how
11:17 < kanzure> it's a exponential plot
11:18 * nsh smiles
11:18 < nsh> no drugs of late
16:08 < ybit> fenn, my "fast video download" add-on in firefox lets me easily download from most video sites, including vim
16:08 < willPow3r> ybit: link
16:09 < ybit> "[00:56] good news! it's a supository" :P
16:15 < ybit> willPow3r: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3590
16:15 < ybit> there are bound to be similar or even better add-ons
16:16 < ybit> kanzure, i like your art
16:16 < ybit> what did you use?
16:17 < ybit> ..to make them
16:17 < ybit> aside from artisitc inspiration :P what were the tools used?
18:27 < kanzure> ybit: I stole all of it.
18:31 < ybit> oh
18:32 * ybit didn't read that part of the convo
18:32 < ybit> wonder why i'm so lazy that i don't want to type conversation
18:33 < kanzure> you don't want to type?
18:35 < kanzure> hm, the site isn't loading for me in firefox
19:25 < kanzure> Why do torrents take a dive in speed when the tracker announces?
19:33 < spookact> diving in speed is the #1 feature of the bittorrent protocol
20:16 < fenn> kanzure: do you know anyone from "team prometheus" from n-prize competition?
20:17 < fenn> rocket stuff
20:19 < kanzure> none of that rings a bell
20:19 < kanzure> nanosat competition? /me remembers there being the cubesat competitions, and the pingpong sat competitions, but not nanoset
20:19 < kanzure> *nanosat
20:20 < fenn> some dude from austin wanted to use emc2 to control his rocket
20:20 < kanzure> Oh, this was something from the UK. Yes, I remember seeing it, even posting it on the blog
20:20 < kanzure> did you point him in my direction? there's some people here I can point him towards
20:21 < fenn> no, this was yesterday, i'm just skimming the logs
20:22 < fenn> monroe_l@68.203.16.252
20:22 < kanzure> http://www.n-prize.com/
20:23 < fenn> i wonder why the upper limit on payload mass is 20g
20:23 < kanzure> "The N-Prize is a challenge to launch an impossibly small satellite into orbit on a ludicrously small budget, for a pitifully small cash prize."
20:23 < kanzure> "Are we serious? Yes."
20:24 < fenn> Entrants are responsible for everything, organisers are responsible for nothing.
20:24 < kanzure> blah
20:24 < kanzure> anyway, we have an experimental rocket group here that does some cubesat stuff, or nanosat or something
20:24 < willPow3r> these [x]-prizes are a lame attempt to get science to go the direction they want it to go
20:24 < kanzure> including ham radio operations on the 12th floor of the aerospace building
20:25 < fenn> willPow3r: so?
20:25 < fenn> willPow3r: got a better idea?
20:25 < kanzure> willPow3r: many would argue that it "spurs innovation!"
20:25 < willPow3r> it does, but they need to dangle a larger piece of cheese
20:25 < kanzure> bah
20:25 < kanzure> $30 million isn't large enough?
20:25 < kanzure> Google Lunar X Prize
20:25 < fenn> no
20:25 < fenn> not even close
20:26 < fenn> apollo cost $50 billion or so
20:26 < willPow3r> not if you can make billions from such an invention
20:26 < willPow3r> or process
20:26 < fenn> not sure how much lunaya cost
20:26 < kanzure> here's my plan right now
20:26 < kanzure> or rather, here's what I'm thinking
20:27 < fenn> er, lunokhod
20:27 < kanzure> Google Maps (or anything else equivalent) backend + mindat.org's mining information and suppliers
20:27 < kanzure> automated procurement with mail delivery to/from these places, as already occurs of course, just in a "web 2.0" friendly framework (whatever that means)
20:27 < kanzure> design/planning system to help you download yer rocket, get the parts, get the space you need to assemble it, blah blah blah
20:27 < kanzure> community collaborative platforms already exist for instance
20:28 < kanzure> then you can do some p2p sharing of specific, discrete tasks on the assembly line .. generated from the design files or some such
20:28 < kanzure> no proof that it will assemble correctly of course, just look at NASA's terrible failure with the metric system on occassion
20:28 < kanzure> closing a few of these gaps should help things along I'd think
20:28 < fenn> so, uh, how do you make sure it actually gets to orbit?
20:29 < kanzure> I was talking in generalities
20:29 < kanzure> rocket is one use of the system
20:29 < kanzure> tracking of rocket is a hard problem like always, no?
20:29 < kanzure> the experimental rockets lab here is piggybacking on some other satellites IIRC
20:29 < kanzure> (the group is like 10 undergrads and a graduate advisor or something)
20:30 < fenn> lamesauce
20:30 < kanzure> piggybacking/bootstrapping is no shame
20:30 < kanzure> how hard would it be to launch a truly freenode in orbit?
20:30 < kanzure> I mean, what's the cost of most of these comm sats anyway?
20:30 < fenn> depends what it does
20:30 < kanzure> after launch, it's just maintaining ground communication facilities right?
20:30 < fenn> often the sat costs much more than the launcher
20:31 < kanzure> sure, the launchers are "off the lot" stuff that costs a few million IIRC
20:31 < kanzure> I'm not well versed in those logistics
20:31 < fenn> something like $10M for a decent size launch
20:31 < fenn> you cant exactly buy a small rocket
20:32 < fenn> also, you're leasing their ground facilities like tracking and comms
20:32 < kanzure> what about comms for a commsat after it's launched?
20:32 < kanzure> just a giant dish somewhere?
20:33 < kanzure> in a few hours - 'Find out the latest MitoSENS news and discuss recent progress with Methuselah Foundation researcher Mark Hamlainen. This is the line of SENS research that received the huge donation from Peter Theil. The Sunday Evening Update is the only place you can get and in-depth interview with a cutting edge aging researchers such as Mark Hamalainen.'
20:33 < kanzure> (only because I'm still sitting in the channel. I lost interest in the stream a few months ago.)
20:33 < fenn> cutting edge aging research is not all that exciting
20:34 < fenn> its not like it will suddenly change everything overnight
20:34 < fenn> maybe some patent race
20:34 * kanzure still wants the long tail of bloggers (etc.) to have anti-aging research kits
20:35 < kanzure> even if it's a $500 biochem kit that lets them permutate through a few tests that have to be done on some variables, splitting up the work like torrent trackers split up downloading
20:35 < kanzure> or other work partioning algorithms
20:36 < kanzure> particion?
20:36 < kanzure> partition
20:37 < kanzure> anyway. I think that the framework I've kicking around might be useful. I don't know though. if you get everything into a package to the point where people just have to press a button and follow the cookies, is it going to work? meh
20:38 < fenn> seems like it would cost more than just doing it in a central location
20:40 < kanzure> that's a very minor peanuts excuse
20:40 < kanzure> fine then, centralize it
20:40 < kanzure> what do I care?
20:41 < kanzure> the point is that it needs to be something that others can pick up and work on if it fizzles out
20:41 < fenn> yes
20:41 < kanzure> i.e., keep a dir on a server somewhere
20:41 < fenn> everything should be like that, imho
20:41 < fenn> too bad humans are such greedy bastards
20:42 < kanzure> gimme gimme gimme
20:42 < fenn> hmm so their strategy is to launch a light gas gun into suborbital trajectory, then fire a barium/titanium cylinder horizontally at 16000 ft/sec
20:43 < fenn> it's a pretty good idea i think
20:44 < kanzure> their?
20:44 < fenn> team prometheus
20:44 < kanzure> arbitrary selecion of barium and titanium?
20:44 < kanzure> how'd that happen?
20:44 < fenn> barium so it will burn bright green on re-entry
20:45 < fenn> titanium is strong at high temperatures and lightweight
21:05 < kanzure> http://meg.web.psi.ch/subprojects/calorimeter/prototype.html calorimeter output
21:06 < kanzure> erm, not output
21:06 < kanzure> more like index
21:06 < kanzure> uh,
21:06 < kanzure> xenon photon detector actually
21:15 < kanzure> "What's the difference between national defense against biowarfare and a national health care system?"
21:51 < marcel_inuse> the first one primary saves solders?
22:38 < kanzure> blah, of course they would do that
22:38 < kanzure> session timeouts on the matweb downloads
22:38 < kanzure> I had (most of) the indices downloaded, was going to go fetch all of the rest of the search pages
22:38 < kanzure> erm, of the category pages I mean
22:39 < kanzure> but the session timed out of course
22:39 < kanzure> "error, you haven't used this server in over 24 hours, please come back to me"
23:24 < kanzure> What does '15135dd30619457f902229b03619841a' look like?
23:25 < fenn> an md5 sum
23:26 < kanzure> nope
23:26 < kanzure> I've been talking with the md5crackb0t on rizon, that's no md5 sum
23:26 < kanzure> googling around for some 'hash code identification charts' but they don't exist
23:27 < fenn> why do you say it's not an md5?
23:27 < fenn> anyway, some kind of 128 bit code represented as hex characters
23:28 < kanzure> The hash bot doesn't find a match in its superlarge db
23:28 < kanzure> hm
23:28 < fenn> doesn't find a match? so what
23:28 < kanzure> well, I'm trying to figure something functional out obviously
23:29 < kanzure> matweb is making this kind of annoying
23:29 < fenn> there's 340282366920938463463374607431768211456 possible different 128 bit codes..
23:29 < kanzure> I mean, it's not enough for them to have a hash for each and every page or whatever
23:29 < kanzure> but on top of this
23:29 < kanzure> they also want you to get a new hash for changing the size of your view or something
23:29 < kanzure> and when I duplicate it, after sitting and waiting in wireshark and extracting the POST etc., it still doesn't really work for the 200 results per page that I want
23:29 < fenn> of course, that way you can just send the hash for an entire session state
23:30 < kanzure> it would be better if I could do 50,000 results per page,
23:30 < fenn> then they look up that hash in their table of clients and serve the page it's associated with
23:30 < kanzure> but they seem to limit at n=200
23:30 < kanzure> but I can't even duplicate /that/ with wget
23:30 < kanzure> once I get that, it would be nice to get 50k
23:30 < kanzure> yeah, I know
23:59 < kanzure> hrm
23:59 < kanzure> peculiar :)
23:59 < kanzure> http://asia.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=CSPHERE05