--- Day changed Tue Sep 23 2008 00:10 < willPow3r__> heh /me loves 4chan 00:10 < willPow3r__> such a waste of a life 01:57 * kanzure finally has (yet another) script rolling 01:57 < willPow3r_> what the hell is the command for tracert on linux? 01:57 < willPow3r_> i can't remember 01:58 < kanzure> traceroute or tracert 01:58 < kanzure> also, you don't necessarily have it installed 01:58 < kanzure> something I learned the hard way 01:59 < willPow3r_> i think nmap can do route tracing 02:03 < kanzure> it turned out I didn't have traceroute in a particularly bad situation 02:03 < kanzure> I was sitting at some conference with a router next to me, trying to get a wireless access point for the group 02:03 < kanzure> I handed off my shell to a linux guy to my right and he did some fancy xterm voodoo 02:03 < kanzure> (emacs?) 02:03 < kanzure> but then frowned when I had no traceroute :( 02:03 < kanzure> arp table investigation :p 02:04 < willPow3r_> n00b 02:06 < kanzure> it turned out the router just sucked 02:13 < kanzure> what a fun data set. 02:13 < kanzure> quick, what can I do with 'bulk modulus' ? 02:21 < willPow3r_> kanzure, impress girls? 02:23 < kanzure> do I need to put the 4chan ban on you? 02:24 < willPow3r_> what? me? 4chan? tits or gtfo newfag 02:24 < willPow3r_> lol j/k 02:32 < spookact> I gotta admit the Oprah video made me laugh harder than anything else in a very long time, /b/ has been on a roll lately 02:33 < willPow3r_> ever since that hacking stunt its been a little weird 02:33 < willPow3r_> well, more weird than usual 02:34 < kanzure> hm, up to 272. so it's successfully changed ip's a few times 02:34 < willPow3r_> yeah, mine is changing every few mins 02:36 < kanzure> automatically? 02:36 < kanzure> I've been forcing it. 02:37 < willPow3r_> did you put that in your script? 02:37 < kanzure> yes 02:48 < willPow3r_> mine is changing every 10 mins automatically. i think thats a conf option though 02:56 < kanzure> Are you fetching the same dataset? 02:57 < willPow3r_> not fetching right now 02:57 < kanzure> please don't, I'll gladly share the set 02:58 < ybit> oh shit. i deleted my images directory 02:58 < ybit> stupid me 02:59 < kanzure> you're on windows, you didn't actually delete anything 02:59 < ybit> not there now 02:59 < ybit> was on temporary today 02:59 < ybit> only* 02:59 < willPow3r_> so you're going to do all the d/ling? 02:59 < ybit> pff 02:59 < ybit> f that 02:59 < ybit> i have most of it on cds.. 02:59 < ybit> except my art :| 03:00 < ybit> oh well 03:01 < kanzure> willPow3r_: might as well at this rate 03:01 < ybit> oh, i see 03:01 < ybit> ..what willPow3r_ was referring to 03:02 < kanzure> ATI Wah Chang Reactor Grade Zirconium Oxide, ZrO2. Hm. 03:03 < willPow3r_> price/ui? 03:03 < kanzure> erm, I'm on to something else now 03:10 < fenn> anyone know the general term for this sort of display? http://www.eyesentials.com/main_images/microoptical-eyeglasses-500x324.jpg 03:10 < fenn> http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/images/product_hmd_microoptical_eg7.jpg 03:10 < fenn> microoptical is a brand name and apparently has discontinued this product line 03:26 < spookact> fenn: don't think there is a general term yet, other than just clumping it with HMDs 03:27 < spookact> I'd be very interested in anything like that with a decent resolution and build quality, everything I've seen so far looks kinda gimmicky 03:28 < kanzure> File change date and time: 2003:05:01 12:24:22 03:28 < kanzure> hm 03:37 < kanzure> fenn: what do you make of the design repository? 03:37 < kanzure> http://function2.device.mst.edu:8080/view/selection.jsp?system=161 03:37 < kanzure> it seems to be too many words and not enough being a spec. 03:43 < fenn> session expired and i havent registered 03:43 < kanzure> registration free 03:43 < fenn> why O lord 03:43 < kanzure> no clue 03:44 < kanzure> funding probably 04:05 < fenn> "Any system shall not harm your content or, through inaction, allow your content to come to harm." 04:06 < fenn> 924MB available in /, but sort still says not enough space in /tmp wtf 04:07 < fenn> ack where did this come from: overflow 1.0M 32K 992K 4% /tmp 04:07 < kanzure> how'd you dig that up? 04:07 < kanzure> and why are you using sort? 04:07 * kanzure just uses df -h and du -h 04:07 < fenn> i'm trying to figure out what filled up my disk with du -a | sort -n 04:25 < willPow3r> /tmp is in ram iirc 04:26 < willPow3r> so its shared with other temp filesystems 04:30 < kanzure> http://function2.device.mst.edu:8080/view/searchmorph.jsp 04:32 < kanzure> they seem to have an ontological separation of material, energy, and then various verbs for acting upon those different main classes 04:57 < procto> kanzure: you may be interested in http://vdash.org 04:57 < procto> since math underlies, well, everything 04:59 < fenn> design engineering lab looks very much like how i imagined skdb, but there isnt enough data about the interfaces to do anything useful 05:04 < fenn> like, yeah, this bearing is a mechanical guide, but no mention of how big it is, what are the load ratings in various directions, max speed, etc 05:05 < fenn> it looks like they are mostly interested in failure rates of components 05:07 < kanzure> right 05:07 < kanzure> it's an "almost but not quite" 05:07 < kanzure> also, it's rather depressing how it's all put together 05:08 < kanzure> I don't know, it just seems like a global determinism restricting everything rather than code originating at the per-interface level 05:08 < kanzure> does that make sense? 05:08 < fenn> yeah, they're trying to fit everything into a too-limited ontology 05:09 < fenn> i like the fact that they use artifacts that i've disassembled 05:09 < fenn> so its not just some weird industrial thing i have nfc what it's supposed to do 05:09 < kanzure> :) 05:10 < kanzure> I'm wondering what they did for this 05:10 < kanzure> sit around disassembling and documenting everything? 05:10 < fenn> looks like it 05:10 < kanzure> getting paid to do that is pretty fun 05:10 < fenn> good project for undergrads 05:10 < kanzure> yep 05:10 < kanzure> but 05:10 < kanzure> not if they don't know the ontology 05:10 < fenn> hey i do it even without getting paid :\ 05:10 < kanzure> I bet this was only one guy 05:10 < kanzure> how else are they going to maintain their semantic strictness? 05:11 < fenn> well, undergrads can still measure + take photos n stuff 05:11 < fenn> i think the semantic data sucks anyway 05:12 < fenn> hah. everyone knows vise grips are forged not cast - it says so right on there 05:12 < kanzure> huh? 05:12 < fenn> n/m 05:12 < kanzure> if it says that then why does everyone know it / not know it? 05:14 < fenn> bleh @ http://function2.device.mst.edu:8080/view/images/tmp/8874-2.pdf 05:20 < kanzure> how would anybody actually use this except for conceptual bullshit 05:20 < kanzure> I mean, I guess it's not bullshit 05:20 < kanzure> but it's not like anything that really matters in an end design is going to be thought about here 05:20 < kanzure> other than converting forms of energy and such 05:22 < fenn> one would hope they would explain that 05:22 < kanzure> hm? 05:22 < fenn> Kris Wood, The University of Texas at Austin 05:22 < kanzure> explain their choices, you mean? 05:22 < kanzure> hm 05:22 < kanzure> link? 05:23 < fenn> http://function2.device.mst.edu:8080/view/dictionary.jsp 05:24 < fenn> http://fic.engr.utexas.edu/archive/faculty/wood.cfm 05:24 < kanzure> ' 05:24 < kanzure> Kris Wood joined the faculty in 1989 where he is currently a Professor of Mechanical Engineering, Mechanical Systems and Design Division. ...' 05:26 < kanzure> http://www.engr.utexas.edu/amc/ 05:26 < fenn> it's so.. not quantitative it hurts 05:26 < kanzure> right 05:26 < fenn> these are engineers ffs 05:26 < fenn> not art students 05:26 < kanzure> hrm 05:26 < kanzure> it's 'design' 05:26 < kanzure> so it could be anything :( 05:26 < kanzure> wood is in http://www.engr.utexas.edu/amc/ advanced manufacturing center 05:27 < kanzure> oh, and manufacturing and design lab (mad) 05:27 < kanzure> ok, I picked the right one 05:27 < kanzure> http://www.me.utexas.edu/~madlab/ 05:29 < fenn> it must be that "design methodology" they talk about so much 05:30 < fenn> "write half of it down in a computer db and let a human do the rest of the work" 05:30 < kanzure> well, I've successfully infiltrated them, and there's documented proof of this, so. 05:30 < kanzure> guess I'll get to work with the ranting 05:30 < fenn> what do you mean by that? 05:30 < kanzure> job? 05:30 < kanzure> remember? 05:31 < fenn> what's your job? (i know its in the adl but that's it) 05:31 < kanzure> it's mostly unspecified, so that gives me some free range to just "do cool stuff" 05:31 < kanzure> specifically though there's two main projects 05:31 < kanzure> first there's the rating and scoring of automatically generated design results 05:32 < kanzure> i.e. for the search facilitator 05:32 < kanzure> secondly there's "whatever you can make-do with this repository" and so on 05:32 < fenn> "this repository" being what? 05:32 < kanzure> uhm, there's also been some mentions of converting over the code bases into something more 'open' and less C# and java 05:32 < kanzure> "this repository" being the one you've been crying about 05:32 < fenn> function.device.mst.edu? 05:33 < kanzure> yes 05:33 < fenn> i see 05:33 < kanzure> it's a joint project amongst the universities apparently 05:33 < kanzure> kind of off-and-on based off of participation or something, it seems 05:34 < fenn> do you have access to whatever is generating the html interface? 05:34 < fenn> or some way to fork the server 05:35 < kanzure> not that I know of 05:35 < kanzure> the server is probably going to be windows 05:35 < kanzure> these 'automated design lab' thingies are very Windows intensive 05:35 < kanzure> though I've been given permission to preach the good word of linux to the boxen 05:36 < fenn> preach with a ten pound sledge, brother 05:36 < fenn> i mean, preach with a ten gig DVD 05:36 < gene> percent isn't here? 05:36 < kanzure> bah, 30 MB deb net install 05:37 * fenn wonders which is faster 05:37 < kanzure> net install has been fast recently 05:37 < kanzure> mostly because there's an on-campus kernel.org node apparently 05:38 < fenn> iu's mirror only allows one download at a time, so i dont use it anymore 05:38 < kanzure> are you on indianna's internal network? 05:38 < percent> So 05:39 < percent> What do you want to do electrospinning for? 05:39 < fenn> no, not anymore 05:39 < percent> I heard some ding dong up in freenode wanted to do some science 05:39 < percent> so if you're here, you'd best represent for nanotech 05:39 < gene> so would a bunch of graphene nanoribbons be stronger than carbon fiber? 05:40 < fenn> no 05:40 < gene> that is the question 05:40 < fenn> oh, carbon fiber, well, "it depends" 05:40 < kanzure> I thought you wanted electrospinning 05:40 < kanzure> mechanical setups and whatnot 05:40 < gene> that is related to the first question 05:40 < gene> I know electrospinning 05:41 < gene> easy enough 05:41 < percent> gene: Almost certainly. 05:41 < percent> Well, it would have a higher elastic stength 05:41 < percent> *Strength 05:41 < gene> sweet 05:41 < percent> But it'd be ribbon-y. 05:41 < gene> yeah it would 05:41 < percent> sir 05:42 < percent> do you f'n represent for nano-TECH 05:42 < gene> I am not sure what you mean 05:42 < kanzure> He probably means tech. 05:43 < gene> So have you ever bombarded nanotubes with electron beams? 05:43 < percent> I'm a black person, so I have to act in a completely ridiculous manner sometimes. 05:43 < percent> Yes. 05:43 < percent> I view them in the SEM all the time 05:43 < percent> they're very bright and visible. 05:43 < kanzure> percent: You have to get slightly more black (or ridiculous) for that to make sense. 05:43 < gene> more intense electron beams 05:43 < percent> We've had them under a TEM before. 05:43 * fenn suspects mood altering chemicals may be involved 05:43 < kanzure> You have an image archive? 05:43 < percent> 1000kV. 05:43 < gene> more intense than that 05:43 < percent> No. 05:44 < percent> Patent stuff. 05:44 < gene> dang 05:44 < percent> jeez 05:44 < percent> Well 05:44 < percent> When you grow them, you expose them to plasma 05:44 < percent> How were you intending to generate >1000kV anyway? 05:44 < fenn> by launching them into the sun 05:44 < gene> high voltage power supply 05:44 < kanzure> like superman iv? 05:44 < gene> CRTs do it 05:44 < fenn> gene: 1000kV is a million volts 05:45 < gene> yeah 05:45 < gene> so 05:45 < percent> dude, 1000kV is insane 05:45 < fenn> you'd need some wardenclyffe tower stuff just to keep it from arcing 05:45 < gene> ok maybe not that intense 05:45 < percent> You'll need one bad as hell transformer to do manage 05:46 < percent> and you'd need sulfur hexafluoride as a dielectric gas 05:46 < gene> http://www.nature.com/nchina/2008/080903/full/nchina.2008.208.html 05:46 < gene> I want to do this 05:46 < gene> on a massive scale 05:47 < percent> also remember that SF6 is fuckin' bling 05:47 < percent> like 05:47 < percent> 900usd for a very small bottle 05:47 < fenn> could you mirror that page somewhere so we can read it? 05:47 < kanzure> yay for nature still blocking me 05:47 < percent> Doesn't block me. 05:47 < percent> Oh, wait, I'm a researcher. 05:47 < kanzure> percent: You didn't steal their entire database. 05:47 < percent> did you 05:47 < gene> well then might use an oil dielectric 05:47 < percent> and where is it hosted 05:47 < kanzure> 40 GB. 05:48 < percent> you host everything ever 05:48 < kanzure> Hosted in a very, very safe spot. 05:48 < gene> 200 kv 05:48 < kanzure> you'll never find me gold 05:48 < kanzure> unless you follow this treasure map 05:48 < percent> kanzure: I really want to build your homebrew STM 05:48 < percent> Have you tested it? 05:48 < kanzure> percent: You've seen the schematics right? 05:48 < kanzure> No, not at all. 05:48 < gene> 10^6 e nm^-2 s-1 05:48 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/instrumentation/instru.html 05:48 < percent> I've fallen in love with STM as an analytical technique 05:48 < percent> that shit is bad as fuck 05:49 < percent> fuckin works in like liquids n shit 05:49 < kanzure> Hm. 05:49 < gene> how does STM work in liquids? 05:49 < kanzure> The ones that I know about use headphone piezos and little screws for positioning 05:49 < kanzure> cut the tip with a sharper wire etc. 05:49 < percent> If I was a deity, and I really wanted to screw with the universe, I'd change tunneling current by like 05:49 < percent> one angstrom's distance 05:49 * kanzure puts it on his todo list 05:49 < gene> http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/120841396/PDFSTART 05:50 < gene> heh 05:50 < gene> set tunneling current to like nothing 05:50 < kanzure> PMMA nanofibers? 05:50 < kanzure> hrm 05:50 < percent> Tunneling is pretty much the most interesting aspect of nanotech. 05:51 < fenn> i thought it was the guaranteed uniformity of atoms 05:51 < percent> no it's tunneling 05:51 < fenn> unless you're talking about that FALSE NANOTECH 05:51 < percent> you are wrong and a bad scientist 05:51 < fenn> liar! 05:51 < gene> what Drexler? 05:51 < fenn> scaring our children! 05:51 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/nano/Turning_PMMA_nanofibers_into_graphene_nanoribbons_by_in_situ_electron_beam_irradiation.pdf 05:52 < percent> Drexler is my homie. 05:52 < gene> heh 05:52 < kanzure> Sir, I've met Drexler, and he most certainly is *not* your homie. 05:52 < percent> oh yes he is 05:52 < gene> I thought Smalley would be 05:52 < kanzure> bitch, take that back 05:52 < percent> drexler understands that sometimes i gotta bust 05:52 < percent> and 05:52 < kanzure> Smalley's dead, what good is he? 05:53 < gene> yeah 05:53 < percent> sometimes he gotta bust too cus it gets serious in da streetz of nanotekkk 05:53 < gene> though my chemistry teach met him and said he was bitch 05:53 < percent> cuz when i bust he pick up my shells and i pick up his 05:54 < gene> heh 05:55 < gene> how do you electrospin nanotubes? 05:56 < percent> I just installed Gentoo Hardened, should I put /boot on another partition...specifically, /mnt/cdrom? 05:56 < percent> I mean, that's paranoia right there 05:56 < kanzure> Nah, they can still find it I would think. 05:56 -!- Nofaris_ is now known as Nofaris 05:56 < fenn> use a floppy and flip the little square thingy over 05:56 < gene> use a 4096 bit encryption key 05:57 < percent> Oh, they can find it 05:57 < percent> that's not what i'm worried about 05:57 < percent> They just can't fuck with it. 05:57 < fenn> but what if they hack into your bios 05:57 < percent> What are they gonna do, eject my CD drive? 05:57 < gene> feds won't be able to crack it within the lifetime of the universe 05:57 < fenn> no gene, that's where you're wrong 05:57 < percent> I'm worried more about the company I keep. 05:58 < percent> If you lay with hackers, you'll get up with rootkits. 05:58 < percent> And fleas, sometimes. 05:58 < fenn> yeah, freenode... *shudder* 05:58 < kanzure> ? 05:58 < kanzure> percent: You slooping around at defcon or something? 05:59 < kanzure> s/oo/ee/ 05:59 < percent> Maybe. 05:59 < gene> Kanzure rootkits suck 05:59 < kanzure> that place got as much action as, well. 05:59 < percent> kanzure gave me herpes :-( 05:59 < percent> heh 05:59 < kanzure> gene: Yes, I'm well aware of this sucking. 05:59 * kanzure recalls his "leet hax0r" days. 05:59 < percent> I was right next to a hotel room where someone was definitely getting laid. 05:59 < percent> At Defcon. 05:59 < gene> NOT HERPES 05:59 < percent> HERPES 05:59 < percent> AKA THE MOST AMAZING VIRAL FAMILY EVER 06:00 < gene> at defcon, impossible! 06:00 < percent> THAT SHIT IS FUCKING INTENSE 06:00 < percent> IT CAN FUCKING INFECT YOUR BRAIN, YOUR EYES, EVERY GODDAMN CELL IN YOUR BODY 06:00 < percent> IT IS THUSLY LEET 06:00 < gene> SHIT 06:01 < fenn> true, but it cannot withstand the power of the corn 06:01 < kanzure> I feel like I've missed some terribly awesome xkcd or something. 06:01 < gene> no 06:02 < percent> Not too my knowledge. 06:02 < percent> herpesviridae is without a doubt, the coolest group of viruses 06:02 < percent> it's got like subviral satellites and gene silencing 06:02 < gene> what, and not ebola? 06:02 < percent> it is an arsenal of viral tricks 06:02 < percent> I more admire its versatility. 06:02 < gene> it has 3 proteins 06:02 * kanzure fetches laundry 06:02 < percent> Really? 06:02 < gene> yeah 06:03 < percent> How many kb is its code? 06:03 < gene> 3 proteins 06:03 < gene> maybe not even a kb 06:04 < percent> That can't be true 06:04 < gene> 18,891 nucleotides 06:04 < percent> wow 06:04 < gene> so about 20 kb 06:04 * percent switches to Engrish 06:04 < percent> BAD VIRUS, TOO SMALL 06:05 < gene> ok I was wrong, 9 proteins 06:05 < percent> 288 amino acids. 06:05 < percent> Still, though, herpesviridae is so...resourceful. 06:05 < gene> yeah that's small 06:05 < percent> There is just nothing it can't do. 06:06 < gene> doesn't it fuck with cytokines too 06:06 < gene> or is that rabies? 06:07 < gene> rabies is a weird one too 06:07 < percent> I'm gonna go take a crap 06:07 < percent> kanzure's herpes gave me the runs 06:07 < gene> it infects nervous cells till it gets to the brain 06:07 < percent> since it infected my intestines 06:07 < percent> gene: it just sits there and chills on the axons 06:08 < gene> damn that herpes 06:08 < percent> till, for whatever reason, there's an outbreak 06:08 < percent> Just an amazing thing, that. 06:09 * percent marvels at his own genitals 06:10 < gene> So Kanzure are you really a robot? 06:12 < gene> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/12/science/12text.html?_r=1&oref=slogin 06:13 < gene> electrospinning is freaky stuff 06:14 < kanzure> Hm. 06:14 < kanzure> Anyway, back to other things 06:16 < fenn> one thing about that repository is there's no inheritance 06:16 < fenn> they put in 'red led' each time 06:17 < kanzure> red led? 06:17 * kanzure checks 06:17 < fenn> i mean, each 'red led' entry is unique 06:17 < fenn> as well as glue, wire, solder, etc 06:17 < kanzure> hrm 06:17 < kanzure> not good. 06:17 < kanzure> I bet this is because they know they are not all equivalent 06:18 < kanzure> so what's the point of their ontology then? 06:18 < kanzure> what are they trying to get out of this if not crossdesign relationships? 06:18 < gene> uh oh someone's getting existential here 06:19 < kanzure> gene: http://function2.device.mst.edu:8080/view/options.jsp 06:19 < fenn> they're interested in the relations between artifacts in the product, not necessarily between artifacts in separate products 06:19 < fenn> s/necessarily// 06:19 < gene> link fail 06:19 < kanzure> well, yes they are 06:19 < kanzure> I mean, adl is 06:19 < kanzure> interested in cross relationships 06:19 < fenn> gene: it's some attempt at categorizing every piece of your coffee maker or whatever 06:19 < gene> oh 06:20 < kanzure> 1) coffee 2) ??? 3) profit! 06:20 < gene> yes 06:20 < kanzure> just a hundred times over. 06:20 < kanzure> #2 is not marked, however 06:20 < gene> so can we make something capable of reverse engineering things 06:20 < kanzure> No. It's all human bullshitting, making up terms for things they see. 06:21 < gene> yeah 06:21 < gene> I am confused 06:21 < fenn> i dont think it's all bullshit, just more or less useless because the resolution is '0' or '1' 06:21 < fenn> so cows and monkeys get lumped in the same category 'mammal' 06:21 < kanzure> yay newtonian classical mechanics 06:21 < kanzure> except even worse. 06:22 < gene> cows and monkeys exhibit inherent similarity of genetic code 06:23 < fenn> i think they did it that way because to get it right would take a lot of thinking and complicate their software more than was necessary to feel like they had something 06:23 < kanzure> it's a hard project, yes 06:23 < kanzure> because objects .. turtles .. lots of ranting here .. you know the drill 06:23 < fenn> yeah, turtles 06:23 < fenn> not enough turtles 06:23 < gene> all the way down? 06:23 < kanzure> yep 06:23 < gene> dang 06:24 < fenn> i think it only needs one more layer of turtles to be useful 06:24 < gene> phylogenetic trees are made by computer programs 06:24 < fenn> big deal 06:24 < gene> proteins are reverse engineered by computers 06:25 < fenn> not really 06:25 < gene> to some extent 06:25 < gene> they are 06:25 < fenn> also might i point out that 'sequence of amino acids' is a very restricted subset of manufacturing processes 06:25 < gene> find the function of a few protein part plug into database 06:25 < gene> shit 06:26 < gene> you have a point there 06:27 < gene> so comparing a bunch of cad files of parts might not lead to inferences about parts 06:27 < fenn> it depends what information is in the cad file 06:27 < fenn> i'm not trying to build an AGI here 06:28 < gene> what's an AGI 06:28 < fenn> the information should be explicit, unless it's in a very constrained context 06:29 < fenn> agi = artificial general intelligence, to distinguish it from chess bots, translators, theorem provers, etc. things that people said computers would never be able to do 06:29 < gene> ok 06:29 < fenn> an agi should be able to make general inferences and transcendent leaps of thought 06:29 < gene> step 1 hook neural network up to parts database, step 2 ???, step 3 PROFIT! 06:30 < kanzure> Not really. 06:30 < gene> I see what you mean 06:30 < kanzure> We've done that in the ADL already, there's nothing to it. 06:30 < fenn> not enough data 06:30 < kanzure> well, it's more for modeling what the designer would like to see more than anything, but anyway 06:30 < fenn> modeling what the designer would like to see? 06:30 < fenn> "i'd like to see a space shuttle" and then *poof*? 06:31 < gene> you know, having a parts database and stuff might be what the brain does 06:31 < kanzure> fenn: graph rewriting rules, rewiring the network for different changes in general to make to the design; anyway, another time 06:31 < kanzure> the brain does lots of compartmentalization, it's true 06:32 < gene> hmmm... wonder what part of the brain design stuff happens in 06:32 < fenn> gene: i think brain mostly does pattern recognition and then backpropagation in the design phase 06:32 < gene> I mean think about it bryan 06:32 < gene> I mean Kanzure 06:32 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Sustained_attention 06:32 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/thinking.html 06:32 < kanzure> I'm already on it... 06:32 < fenn> most engineering is 'braindead' meaning people don't actually explicitly go through all the logic steps to reach a design 06:32 < gene> you essentially have a parts library of all the parts you have seen 06:33 < gene> I know 06:33 < fenn> i certainly don't design stuff based on what parts i have seen 06:33 < gene> for me, I get an idea, and it just falls into place 06:33 < gene> what have you designed 06:34 < fenn> nothing :( 06:34 < gene> not even simple tools like stick hammers? 06:34 < gene> or what not 06:34 < fenn> ok, some tesla turbine engine 06:34 < fenn> except for some fasteners it's all custom parts 06:34 < gene> how did you design it? 06:35 < fenn> with a pencil 06:35 < fenn> what do you mean 'part' anyway? 06:35 < gene> you worked from a template essentially 06:35 < gene> you know the basic concept of how a tesla turbine works 06:36 < fenn> right, i didnt discover how it worked from basic principles, but someone did 06:36 < gene> yeah that is what I mean 06:36 < gene> now how did you design the individual parts like the case? 06:36 < gene> the intake? 06:36 < fenn> i have a design for a fusion reactor from first principles, but many of the "parts" are just simple wires and electrical signals 06:37 < fenn> the case is essentially a diffusor and stator vanes 06:37 < fenn> it does double duty as bearing mounts 06:38 < fenn> and thermal insulation 06:38 < fenn> yadda yadda 06:38 < gene> you mean this thing burns gas? 06:38 < fenn> yes it's like a jet engine 06:38 < gene> did you work from plans 06:38 < gene> ? 06:38 < fenn> no 06:39 < gene> dang 06:39 < fenn> is that really hard to believe? 06:39 < gene> no 06:39 < fenn> artists make up new forms all the time 06:39 < gene> so you combined two concepts 06:40 < fenn> er, not really 06:40 < gene> that this part can run off of pressure, and that this can provide the pressure 06:40 < fenn> it wasnt like "tesla turbines are cool" and "jet engines are cool" therefore "tesla gas turbine!" 06:41 < fenn> more like, how can i run my car on cardboard? 06:41 < fenn> then i go through ways to extract energy from cardboard 06:41 < gene> but you know that burning gas heats things up, heated up gas expands 06:42 < gene> but I don't think it's possible to for computer based neural nets to make these kinds of inferences yet 06:43 < gene> well gotta goggle out 06:43 < fenn> why not? i thought that categorization was what nn's were good at 06:43 < fenn> bah 06:43 < kanzure> why do they always leave 06:43 < fenn> they have important things to do like go to class in the morning 06:43 < kanzure> so do I but at least I idle 06:43 < fenn> chatzill@ 06:44 < kanzure> my browser hasn't closed since '93 06:44 < fenn> i was born with a browser running on my retinal neurons 06:44 < kanzure> omg 06:44 < fenn> stfu 06:45 < kanzure> oh, I get it now 06:45 < kanzure> you were making a reference to the time 06:45 * kanzure sleeps too 06:46 < kanzure> up to 2592. I don't like this rate. 06:47 < fenn> that's only a month til it's done 06:47 < kanzure> #2553 = superwool 06:47 < kanzure> bleh, I always wait until datasets are completely downloaded to do anything with it 06:47 < kanzure> I obviously need to break this habit 06:47 < fenn> i wonder if they have the magic paint that protects against 3000degF flame 06:48 < kanzure> we'll be able to query for that shortly. 06:51 < fenn> Striking a Balance between Engineering Science and Engineering Design 06:51 < fenn> i guess this means they're admitting "Design" is basically art froofery 06:52 < fenn> The underlying premise of the proposed work is that failure modes ultimately correlate back to the function that a particular component solves. If the link between failure mode and function can be established, then we speculate that component solutions for each function can be designed to eliminate or significantly reduce a given failure mode 11:44 < kanzure> " can be designed" turtle art 12:44 < kanzure> 5220 12:44 < kanzure> <20 days? 13:00 * kanzure tries to find dj inphinity's euro temptations torrent 13:00 < kanzure> the seeds didn't quite sproute. 16:16 < willPow3r> quick question 16:16 < willPow3r> has running tor kept you guys from connecting to irc at all? 17:02 < ybit> http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/engineering/extranet/research-groups/neuroengineering-lab/ 17:02 < ybit> willpower, yeah, i had difficulties awhile back connecting to freenode with tor 17:03 < ybit> i think freenode has some info on their website about this 17:04 < ybit> well, i wanted to study in spain, but there isn't much going on there in neurotecnolog?a o nanotecnolog?a from what i can find 17:08 < ybit> atleast, not for undergrads 17:08 < willPow3r> ybit, are you in the US? 17:08 < ybit> s? 17:09 < willPow3r> why would you want to study out of the country anyway, especially for neuroscience? 17:09 < ybit> i want to study in spain because i could hone my spanish speaking skills much quicker 17:10 < ybit> neuroscience is something i'm interested in, so that's what i was looking for 17:10 < ybit> guess i will try the tech school here though 17:10 < ybit> or england 17:10 < ybit> or canada 17:11 < ybit> doesn't matter really 17:11 < willPow3r> not for undergrad so much 17:26 < kanzure> willPow3r: No. 17:26 < kanzure> I'm not using tor overall, however. 17:27 < kanzure> hm, can anybody give me a good excuse to not go to the 270+ company career fair? 17:30 < kanzure> http://technology.newscientist.com/article/dn14790-sketch-your-own-labonachip-could-save-lives.html?DCMP=ILC-hmts&nsref=news4_head_dn14790 Sketch your own lab-on-a-chip with sunlight/UV light, etchant ink for your pen and a transparency. 17:30 < kanzure> for microfluidic devices. 17:30 < kanzure> Now, bonus points for somebody who can tell me what I can do with just drawing little pathways for water to run down .. 17:30 < kanzure> they claim diagnostics 17:31 < kanzure> but wtf? 17:34 < kanzure> oh, also 17:34 < kanzure> ybit, fenn, it turns out that one of the people that signed up to the IEEE group 17:34 < kanzure> works in the Design Engineering Lab 17:34 < kanzure> she and I were talking via email a week ago, 17:35 < kanzure> and I was replying today to her latest message and saw that she was at mst.edu, so I mentioned my last use of their servers, only to find her name listed there 17:35 < kanzure> anywho, small world. 18:01 < kanzure> 7173 = AISI 118 Steel, normalized at 925 celsius (1700 fahrenheit), air cooled, 25 m. Round. Applications include medium duty shafts, studs, pins, distributor cams, cam shafts, and universal joints. Poissons ratio 0.29. 18:01 < kanzure> http://steel.org/ http://autosteel.org/ 18:01 < kanzure> http://steel-trp.org/ 18:01 < kanzure> etc. 18:02 < kanzure> gah, who runs a webserver that only accepts www 18:04 < nsh> yeah, i hate that 18:04 < kanzure> nsh is back again? 18:11 < nsh> mosrtly 18:57 < kanzure> http://austin.pm.org/ can't get more lazy than this. 20:11 < kanzure> fenn, do we want to steal/use the designengineering.org repository for stuff? 20:11 < kanzure> I'm pretty sure that it's sort of useful but mostly not sort of thing 20:14 < percent> hey 20:15 < kanzure> Hi percent. 20:15 < percent> extra points if, in the next minute, someone can tell me a material that will withstand 1200C @ 70 torr without outgassing 20:15 < percent> a material which is not alumina 20:15 < kanzure> arvhladfkadfjlak 20:15 < kanzure> my material download is not done yet 20:15 < kanzure> I'm at #8066 out of #80920 20:15 < kanzure> and I haven't translated it into a queryable database yet 20:16 < kanzure> argh 20:16 < percent> f ya 20:24 < kanzure> hm, I can at least use the PNPPS GA/SA stuff with that design repository (maybe) if I implement another turtle shell layer thingy 20:25 < kanzure> so that there can be recombinant designing going on there 20:25 < kanzure> and this would be done by making parts 'inheritable' and members of multiple 'products' instead of being separate 22:12 < kanzure> wtf, facebook is stupid 22:12 < kanzure> 3 MB sent over their network in the backend when a user makes a request, processed overall in 15 ms 22:12 < kanzure> nobody knew what FOAF was. 23:50 < kanzure> xml output is broken 23:51 < kanzure> another crawl? 23:51 < procto> kanzure: did you see my link to http://vdash.org last night? 23:51 < kanzure> yes, but I only briefly looked at the front page 23:51 < kanzure> looked like some ascii thingies 23:52 < kanzure> hrm 23:52 < kanzure> syntax is odd 23:52 < procto> look at the slides 23:52 < procto> it's a project in progress 23:52 < kanzure> I'd rather not, slides are going to take extra load on this box at the moment, maybe later 23:52 < kanzure> hm, pdf 23:53 < procto> yeah, beamer slides 23:53 < procto> the e-club ones are more comprehensive 23:55 < kanzure> wiki is silly 23:55 < kanzure> for this. 23:56 < kanzure> but I'm glad that at least somebody is close to the right idea 23:56 < kanzure> freer? 23:57 < procto> heh yeah, that's him 23:57 < kanzure> yay 23:57 < procto> I dispute that. I think wiki is ideal for this. This is exactly the type of thing wikis are best for. 23:57 < kanzure> uh? 23:57 < kanzure> just send the files to the user. 23:57 < kanzure> that's it. 23:57 < kanzure> you don't need bulky crappy HTML for this 23:58 < kanzure> automated mathematics is for mathematics, not looking pretty 23:58 < fenn> pardon if i ask the obvious, but what does it do? 23:58 < kanzure> if you wanted to look pretty, go buy those calculus-with-pornstar vids 23:58 < procto> if you want to have a lot of people contribute 23:58 < fenn> besides render latex 23:58 < procto> you need it to look pretty 23:58 < kanzure> fenn: verification apparently 23:58 < procto> fenn: it verifies the math being put in, and makes mathematically sound connections 23:58 < kanzure> modular unit tests of theorems and such. 23:58 < procto> so if for example you put in a proof that glossed over some components 23:58 < procto> someone else can come in and fill those out 23:59 < kanzure> so you claim if you want people to do anything, they must use a wiki 23:59 < procto> no.... 23:59 < kanzure> "if you want to have a lot of people contribute" 23:59 < procto> no, that's why you need it to be pretty 23:59 < fenn> being able to see what's going on is good, and many people have web browsers who wouldnt otherwise be bothered to install your software 23:59 < procto> a wiki is good for collaborative incremental stuff 23:59 < procto> incremental is the key