--- Day changed Tue Sep 30 2008 00:18 < ybit> grr 00:19 < ybit> the too much pressur around the keyboard area on my lappy causes the screen to go blank. it may or may not display if you shake it. not sure what the magnet is doing 00:19 < ybit> np Nofaris_ 00:19 < ybit> the more, the better imo 00:19 < superturtle> pressure on the kb on a lptop causing the lcd to go blank? 00:20 < superturtle> *laptop 00:20 < ybit> yep 00:20 < superturtle> is it a fade-out of the type that LCDs do when they are in trouble? 00:20 < ybit> that or it's just displaying blackness 00:20 < superturtle> or just total video card failness 00:21 < ybit> fade out 00:21 < superturtle> I predict a metal contact under your kb 00:22 < ybit> guess i should open it up and find out 00:29 < ybit> kpf 00:30 < ybit> now that's extremely simple 00:42 < ybit> http://71.207.240.143:8001/ -- my music collection, minus my CDs which vastly outnumbers the number albums on the computer. keep putting off ripping them 00:42 < ybit> i really like the ease of the kpf icon on kicker 00:42 * superturtle just made a playlist of all of his music 00:42 < superturtle> 34k mp3s 00:43 < ybit> wow 00:43 < ybit> i think ampache is actually the way to go with sharing music 00:44 < ybit> (listen before downloading type music server) 00:44 < ybit> amarok 2.0 supposedly will support ampache as well 00:45 < superturtle> I used to have a perl-based icecast station or something 00:45 < superturtle> so everyone could stream their own mp3s 00:46 < ybit> if you look at the collection and see alkj3l8s02ks03u0s93l.mp3 those are files i grabbed directly from hypem.com's mirrors, the files contain the correct metadata with artist name, album, etc 00:47 < ybit> superturtle: is that just mp3s? 00:47 < superturtle> don't remember 00:47 < ybit> what's the ratio of mp3s to flac? 00:47 < superturtle> huh? 00:47 < ybit> k 00:47 < ybit> .flac files 00:47 < ybit> lossless audio 00:47 < ybit> open source 00:47 < superturtle> not many. 00:48 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flac 00:49 < ybit> http://what.cd has quite a collection of flac files, like oink.cd before it was closed; too bad it's difficult to gain access what.cd 00:49 < kanzure> what.cd died, I thought 00:49 < kanzure> oink.cd I mean 00:49 < kanzure> oh 00:49 < kanzure> I have a few friends on the *.cd's if you want referrals or something 00:50 < ybit> you have to pass an interview/test for what.cd 00:51 < ybit> irc.what.cd 00:53 < ybit> #what.cd-invites 00:54 < ybit> if i have time to study audio transcoding during a break, i might try to join again (yes i failed the test) 00:54 < ybit> you only have to miss one question to fail 00:55 < kanzure> Has anyone ever considered phylogenetic tree analysis for dating service assistance? The reason why everybody mistakes everyone else for each other is because it's just recombinant alleles floating around the pools; so surely there's some predictive accuracy from their local history to broadly match against ancestry information from other people's branches. 00:55 < kanzure> Audio transcoding? 00:55 < kanzure> Hm. 01:04 < ybit> not sure if there's a demand for phylogenetic analysis, unless maybe you live in the South ;) 01:05 < superturtle> no, the idea is that people are stumbling upon similar phenotypes in totally different branches of the trees in the populations 01:06 -!- superturtle is now known as kanzure_ 01:27 -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn 01:28 < kanzure_> http://sup.rubyforge.org/ mutt client that understands folders and smtp 01:28 < kanzure_> newsbeuter - cli rss reader 01:29 < ybit> so much for a quick, intense gaming session. 01:29 < ybit> kanzure, are you trying to stick to the cli for everything? 01:29 < kanzure> clicking sucks. 01:29 < ybit> before long you will be using awesome wm with firefox and vimperator :) 01:30 < kanzure> *you* try clicking a million times. 01:30 < ybit> it hurts, i know 01:36 < kanzure> hm, that's odd, one of the iGEM categories this year is 'manufacturing' 01:36 < kanzure> Food or Energy, Environment, Health or Medicine, Manufacturing, New Application, Foundational Advance, Software 01:47 < h2i> in my case now, more clicking is good 01:51 < ybit> hehe, i have nsync xmas in audio :P 01:52 < ybit> don't hurt me 01:52 * ybit quickly deletes and hopes no one noticed... 03:19 < kanzure> http://www.latepatents.net/ 03:23 < kanzure> hm 03:23 < kanzure> http://onebigtorrent.org/torrents/70/The-Take 03:23 < kanzure> huh,. 04:00 < ybit> i like mike's response and links 04:01 < ybit> latepatents is like a toy shop for us kids 04:02 < kanzure> http://www.cs.miami.edu/~tptp/ The TPTP Problem Library for Automated Theorem Solvers 04:10 < kanzure> fenn: did you see the machines img archive? 04:14 < fenn> eh? 04:15 < kanzure_> I've decided to just take random images from the net as examples of surface contact problems 04:15 < kanzure_> i.e., 'find exceptions to the rule' 04:15 < kanzure_> to try to make a better repository format than what's currently in the /~bbishop/docs/repo/ dir. 04:15 < fenn> fractal A meets random cellular automata B 04:15 < kanzure_> a fractal is a discrete part? 04:15 < fenn> i dont think its possible to cover all cases 04:16 < kanzure_> right 04:16 < kanzure_> but still. 04:16 < kanzure_> is my but still valid? 04:16 < fenn> there are physical artifacts that resemble computer generated fractal images 04:16 < kanzure_> up to some n, no? 04:16 < kanzure_> some iteration 04:16 < fenn> down to the resolution of atoms 04:17 < fenn> google "silver dendrite" 04:20 < kanzure_> I was thinking that I'd do it by specifying the shape of the intersecting surface or something. 04:21 < fenn> solids dont intersect 04:21 < fenn> not real ones at least 04:21 < kanzure_> they sit next to each other 04:21 < kanzure_> screw in a screwhole 04:21 < fenn> bah 04:21 < kanzure_> wtf? 04:23 < kanzure_> consider n beams of metals with slots for their interconnection 04:23 < fenn> you should know about asperities and bearing contact area and so on 04:23 < kanzure_> don't make me cite combinatorics on you. 04:23 < kanzure_> okay 04:23 < fenn> don't math out on me 04:24 < kanzure_> cosine to the pi gee. 04:24 < fenn> werd 04:25 < fenn> surface roughness is often given in root-mean-square millionths of an inch 04:25 < fenn> or microns 04:26 < fenn> um. yeh 04:26 < kanzure_> I'm trying to figure out a simple example of rigid, solid bodies that have ambiguous definitions in the current repository format, even though they are made of the same parts 04:26 < kanzure_> my '3D geometry of a car' (where the geom is assembled from the known parts) example hasn't been working out too well. 04:27 < fenn> what you mean by ambiguous? 04:27 < kanzure_> "1 metal plate, another metal plate, a pin in between them" <-- how many different implementations of this can you imagine? 04:28 < fenn> uh, none? 04:28 < kanzure_> both have holes. 04:28 < kanzure_> screw you. 04:28 < kanzure_> har har har 07:14 < ybit> http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/~pk/research/matlabfns/ -- someone was porting to this to python at once, me thinks 07:14 < ybit> -at 10:23 * fenn mumbles something about personal electronic widgets with roll-out laser projector screens 12:49 < kanzure> some of these people just flat out suck 12:49 < kanzure> "If we can work out a logical way to "do" tax/ rent then perhaps we can use a similar model to fund Open Manufacturing research and development?" 12:51 < kanzure_> BREAKING NEWS: Stuffing Cash Under Your Mattress bought out by Keeping Cash in Mason Jar In The Garage 12:52 < UtopiahGHML> Smart World: Breakthrough Creativity and the New Science of Ideas 12:52 < UtopiahGHML> By Richard Ogle 12:52 < UtopiahGHML> Published by Harvard Business School Press, 2007 12:52 < UtopiahGHML> ISBN 1591394171, 9781591394174 12:52 < UtopiahGHML> someone checked that already? 12:53 < kanzure_> No, but it sounds like TRIX, combinatorics, ideonomics, etc. What new idea does Ogle propose? 12:53 < UtopiahGHML> seems to be "idea-spaces" 12:53 < UtopiahGHML> a set of nodes in a network of people (and their ideas) that cohere and take on a distinctive set of characteristics anddynamics leading to the generation of breakthrough ideas. 12:54 < UtopiahGHML> he tries to establishes "law" of such spaces 12:54 < kanzure_> it's social? 12:54 < kanzure_> normally ideaspaces are personal 12:54 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/thinking.html 12:54 < UtopiahGHML> could be part of the "distributed mind" perspective 12:54 < kanzure_> fuck :( 12:55 < kanzure_> while I wouldn't mind my brain in a jar a few miles away, 12:55 < kanzure_> that's usually not what the 'distributed mind' people are talking about 12:55 < UtopiahGHML> I link to think about giant sequoias 12:55 < kanzure_> what? 12:55 < UtopiahGHML> they basically support each other thanks to their network of roots 12:56 < UtopiahGHML> as to basically not being able to be efficient in an environment alone 12:56 < UtopiahGHML> thus thinking in a vaccum (and being educated too) 12:56 < UtopiahGHML> can be illusionary 12:56 < kanzure_> of course - there is nothing from the void 12:56 < UtopiahGHML> so the distributed mind doesn't seem ridiculous to me 12:56 < kanzure_> see my thinking.html page 12:56 < kanzure_> no, it's just a reference to the wrong people you see 12:56 < kanzure_> usually they're talking about the 'smart mob' crap 12:56 < kanzure_> and you can't just divine a mob from the void either ;-) 12:57 < UtopiahGHML> well I didn't get through his book (yet) so I can't say more 12:57 < UtopiahGHML> that's actually why Im asking 12:57 < kanzure_> go put http://twobits.net/ on your list too. it's less about creativity and more about those social aspects. 12:57 < kanzure_> also, if you want, I can give you access to my 'creativity book collection' 12:58 < kanzure_> it's basically the same stuff said over and over again :/ 12:58 < UtopiahGHML> meaning? 12:58 < kanzure_> there's always the requisite mention of memorization methods 12:58 < kanzure_> always the requisite mention of drugs and psychotropics 12:59 < kanzure_> Feynman, Tesla, Asimov, Poincare, nothing new 12:59 < kanzure_> see thinking.html ;-) I've compressed/condensed it all 12:59 < fenn> Tesla? 12:59 < kanzure_> mm 13:00 < fenn> tesla was physiologically different 13:01 < kanzure_> no doubt 13:01 < fenn> he had headaches, strange visions, and suffered from being aroudn peaches 13:01 < kanzure_> physiological augmentation should count 13:01 < UtopiahGHML> I personnaly bet on evolutionary espistemology 13:01 * kanzure_ somehow skipped the Tesla idolation phase and went straight to Leibniz 13:01 < UtopiahGHML> creativity is just an evo algo... 13:01 < kanzure_> UtopiahGHML: sure 13:02 < kanzure_> somewhat 13:02 < kanzure_> I mean, you have to be careful with who you're saying that to 13:02 < kanzure_> with some people that means different things 13:02 < UtopiahGHML> ? 13:02 < kanzure_> around here, to us, you're talking complexity science 13:02 < kanzure_> but again, the 'smart mob' people are off in another realm sometimes 13:02 < fenn> creativity is a function of humans which are a product of evolution :) 13:02 < kanzure_> eh 13:03 < fenn> i wouldnt say "creativity is just an evo algo" though 13:03 < fenn> i mean GA's are stupid 13:03 < kanzure_> so are humans? 13:03 < kanzure_> oh wait 13:03 < fenn> not in the way that GA's are 13:03 < kanzure_> was it you who mentioned shouting at GAs when they don't choose the obviously right path to go? 13:04 < kanzure_> when they just graze by the right set of combinations etc. 13:04 < fenn> notme 13:04 < kanzure_> must've been steve 13:04 < fenn> i know better than to try to get a GA to do real work :) 13:04 < nsh> genetic algorithms are stoopid 13:04 < kanzure_> do you know better than trying to get a person to do real work? 13:04 < fenn> yep 13:04 < UtopiahGHML> thinking we are smart is a human bias :) 13:05 < UtopiahGHML> there is not proof that being smart is actually positive 13:05 < kanzure_> not many people in here think they are smart 13:05 < UtopiahGHML> so even it's all GA based doesn't mean it's not "sufficient" 13:05 < kanzure_> GA + a little kick now and then to get out of ruts 13:05 < kanzure_> but that isn't enough either of course 13:05 < fenn> UtopiahGHML: "there is not proof that being smart is actually positive" is a statement of your value system, so who cares 13:05 < kanzure_> heh 13:06 < UtopiahGHML> fenn: what is not? 13:06 < kanzure_> fenn: UtopiahGHML comes from #opencog; his background seems to be the ai community 13:06 < kanzure_> UtopiahGHML: I like to yell at the agi community in here for most of the reasons that you're talking about 13:06 < kanzure_> or most of the topics that you're talking about, I mean 13:07 < UtopiahGHML> glad to participate in your passions :) 13:07 < kanzure_> so, for example, my aim isn't really intelligence augmentation 13:07 < kanzure_> well 13:07 < kanzure_> *-augmentation 13:07 < kanzure_> my aim isn't intelligence since that concept is too fuzzy 13:07 < fenn> do you mean "human-like smarts are not the best way to build an AI-ish system"? 13:07 < kanzure_> what the hell is the I? 13:07 < fenn> i'm just trying to figure out how someone could think smart = bad 13:07 < UtopiahGHML> the ability to handle a never encountered situation 13:08 < fenn> religious arguments aside 13:08 < UtopiahGHML> fenn: that's not what I said 13:08 < kanzure_> on that note, http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/ I posted an email about how smart people making stupid decisions about complex systems .. everybody knows it, but it keeps on being rediscovered too late by others. 13:08 * kanzure_ heads off to class 13:08 < fenn> i discarded "there is not proof" part because there isn't proof of anything 13:09 < kanzure_> 59394 13:09 < fenn> because it's a Hard Problem 13:09 < UtopiahGHML> what I meant by that is that staying that GA are stupid so we "must have sth extra" doesn't sound correct to me 13:09 < fenn> but we do have something extra 13:10 < fenn> that's why GA's do confounded stupid things all the time, and people generally behave somewhat predictable 13:10 < UtopiahGHML> so what is that sth extra? 13:10 < fenn> hell if i know 13:10 < UtopiahGHML> to me GA are "stupid enough" if you will. 13:11 < fenn> history of AI has been littered with people trying to say their particular narrow approach has all the answers 13:11 < fenn> (and failing) 13:11 < UtopiahGHML> but you have to go further than the GA you learned in your AI class that takes no heuristic or manipulate no complex strategies since those can be also population of your GA (as in metaGA basically) 13:12 < fenn> is metaGA something specific? 13:12 < UtopiahGHML> no, it's just a GA 13:13 < UtopiahGHML> but it's the same idea that Lisp 13:13 < UtopiahGHML> data is code, code is data 13:13 < UtopiahGHML> so data of a metaGA can be GA too 13:13 < UtopiahGHML> and that's "stupid enough" 13:13 < UtopiahGHML> to handle pretty much anything IMHO 13:14 < fenn> so, as an example, you'd have a GA that designs fitness functions? 13:15 < faceface> I'd make a GA to design that GA 13:15 < fenn> and then grows sub-ga's to fit them 13:15 < UtopiahGHML> the idea is to stop think functionnal basically 13:15 < UtopiahGHML> data are not "dead" pieces of information 13:15 < faceface> kanzure, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17406674 13:15 < fenn> what data? 13:16 < UtopiahGHML> as you said, it can be fitness or anything else 13:16 < UtopiahGHML> heuristics, GA, etc... 13:16 < fenn> how can fitness not be the result of a function? 13:17 < UtopiahGHML> what is not a function? 13:17 < fenn> argh 13:17 * fenn hates AI people 13:17 * nsh puts on his darth voice 13:17 < nsh> goooood, feel the hate young one 13:17 < nsh> feel its power 13:17 < UtopiahGHML> don't worry, they don't hate you back. 13:17 < UtopiahGHML> well I guess some do actually but... ;) 13:18 * fenn slices off nsh's cyborg-hand 13:26 < UtopiahGHML> fenn: anyway depiste what I said before I think "intelligence" is a key competitive advantage 13:28 * nsh takes notes 13:28 < UtopiahGHML> but I don't think I meet the requirements for it 13:28 < UtopiahGHML> thus my bet on AI :P 16:03 < faceface> UtopiahGHML, computational evolutionary dynamics? 16:34 < kanzure__> All hail the good word of debian. 16:34 < fenn> zoot 16:34 < kanzure__> sound? 16:35 < kanzure__> before I poison the system with kde, any recommendations? 16:35 < fenn> sound? 16:35 < kanzure__> is 'zoot' a sound? 16:35 < fenn> yes 16:35 < fenn> it's the noise a kazoo makes 16:36 < fenn> what's this about kde? 16:36 < kanzure__> :p 16:36 < kanzure__> kidding. 16:37 < kanzure__> I haven't tried ratpoison yet. but somebody also recently mentioned awesomewm. 16:37 < fenn> ratpoison is (literally) a joke 16:37 < fenn> hmm what was the alternative to ion? 16:38 < kanzure__> ion2? 16:38 < fenn> wmii 16:39 < fenn> i have an aversion to experimenting with window managers for long enough to notice any benefits, so no recommendations from the peanut gallery this time 16:40 < kanzure__> bkero should have a few suggestions :) 16:40 < bkero> wmii 16:40 < bkero> awesomewm 16:40 < bkero> dwm 16:40 < bkero> I'm using wmii as we speak. 16:40 < kanzure__> heh' 16:47 < kanzure__> bkero: How do I undo Alt+Shift+L or move to the left or make a column on the left instead of the right? 16:48 < bkero> kanzure__: in wmii? 16:49 < kanzure__> yes 16:49 < bkero> kanzure__: In wmii, left is h, j is down, k is up, l is right 16:49 < kanzure__> blah 16:49 < kanzure__> k 16:49 < bkero> alt+shift+j moves to the left 16:49 < kanzure__> and undoing a column? 16:50 < bkero> move everything out of it 16:51 < bkero> If I have 2 columns, each with 3 things, I can move one in the right column right AGAIN to make a third column. 16:53 < kanzure__> ah, I see, 'shift' is like having sticky hands 16:53 < kanzure__> sticky fingers. 16:53 < kanzure__> erm. 16:54 < kanzure__> Not sure I like the idea of having no taskbar. 16:55 < bkero> shift is to move windows around, no shift is to switch which window is active. 16:55 < bkero> shift+p runs a program 16:55 < bkero> er, alt+p 16:56 < fenn> dont these keyboard commands conflict with other programs? 16:58 < bkero> You can change the Mod key in the wmii config 16:58 < bkero> I use the window key 16:59 < fenn> am i the only person who resents having a windows logo on my keyboard? 16:59 < kanzure__> as of yet I haven't seen anything ever using the windows logo key, except on Windows platforms, where it calls up the 'start menu' 16:59 < bkero> fenn: My keyboard at home doesn't have a windows key. ;) 16:59 < bkero> kanzure__: Eee's have a 'home' key. ;) 16:59 < fenn> you.. you.. clicky lover! 16:59 < kanzure__> replaced it with a panic button? :) 16:59 < kanzure__> ah 17:00 < bkero> My keyboard was made before windows. 17:01 < kanzure__> bkero: How do I change the alt key setting? Dillo conflicts apparently. 17:01 < kanzure__> although dillo doesn't explicitly define that it conflicts 17:01 < kanzure__> naughty. 17:01 < bkero> kanzure__: see your /home/kanzure/.wmii-3.5/ folder? 17:02 < bkero> copy the files in /usr/local/etc/wmii-3.5/ into it 17:02 < bkero> then edit the file called wmiirc 17:02 < bkero> The MODKEY is what you want to change. You can also change the terminal colors. Mine is WMII_TERM="xterm -fg green -bg black" 17:03 < kanzure__> hm. /usr/local/etc/ is empty. Also, it's not in /etc/wm* either. 17:03 < kanzure__> debian installation here. 17:03 < bkero> find / -name wmiirc 17:03 < kanzure__> nothing in ~/.wmii-3 either 17:04 < kanzure__> bkero: ah, okay, do I just need to copy the wmiirc file? 17:05 < bkero> I'd copy all 3 17:05 < kanzure__> I wonder what the windows key is anyway. 17:05 < kanzure__> alt = "Mod1" apparently 17:06 < bkero> Yes 17:06 < kanzure__> you know, this isn't that bad. 17:06 < bkero> Make sure which mod key your window key corresponds to. 17:06 < bkero> also if you alt+2, you'll goto a new workspace. shift+alt+2 moves a window there :) 17:07 < bkero> Workspaces without anything in them are automatically destroyed. 17:07 < kanzure__> And to move a window back? 17:07 < kanzure__> and to cycle? 17:07 < bkero> goto the workspace, and shift+alt+1 17:08 < fenn> prolly alt+tab to cycle 17:09 < bkero> Nope 17:10 < fenn> no task bar, so do you ever have windows hidden by other windows? 17:10 < fenn> or minimized or whatever 17:10 < kanzure__> you can opt to 17:10 < kanzure__> alt+shift+d means the silly cascade version 17:10 < kanzure__> alt+shift+l means to make a new column for more silly cascading 17:10 < kanzure__> alt+shift+s for stack mode 17:10 < kanzure__> alt+shift+m for max mode 17:10 < kanzure__> erm, not cascading, sorry 17:10 < kanzure__> tiling. 17:12 < fenn> how do you keep your terminals from getting stretched out of shape? 17:12 < bkero> What do you mean out of shape? 17:14 < fenn> well for example if you have a screen multiple session, one will look weird if you change the window size (ctl-a ctl-f to fix) 17:14 < bkero> All my screens have resized themselves without problem. 17:15 < fenn> do screen -x in two terms 17:15 < kanzure__> blargh, so far it doesn't seem lik dillo allows to navigate from link to link like in lynx (left/right arrow) 17:15 < fenn> resize them to different shapes 17:15 < bkero> I do 17:15 < kanzure__> this doesn't sound right. 17:15 < bkero> It just puts ====='s to limit the window size to the smallest connected 17:15 < fenn> kanzure__: dillo has a lot of stupid usability problems that should be easy to fix 17:15 < bkero> Be a man, use w3m 17:16 < kanzure__> you mean to say that people know about dillo's problems? 17:16 < kanzure__> dillo always seems to be underactive in development 17:16 < kanzure__> undermanned, I mean 17:16 < fenn> i dunno, it looks totally abandoned to me 17:16 < kanzure__> right 17:17 < fenn> so, this webkit thing is supposed to be fast, but that's relative to firepig 17:17 < fenn> i wonder how it compares to dillo 17:17 < kanzure__> somehow it runs on cell phone platforms 17:17 < kanzure__> webkit, I mean 17:17 < bkero> I run it on my phone. 17:17 < bkero> Works pretty well. 17:17 * kanzure__ has never been able to get webkit to compile, or usably compile 17:17 < kanzure__> isn't w3m that line browser? 17:18 < fenn> w3m is like lynx 17:18 < kanzure__> what's my alternative to dillo? 17:18 < fenn> let me know if you find out 17:18 < fenn> fennec maybe 17:18 < kanzure__> links2 was interesting the other day, but I'm not interested in xterm browsers really 17:18 < kanzure__> fennec isn't found in the apt repositories 17:19 < fenn> it's alpha 17:20 < bkero> use w3m 17:20 < kanzure__> but it's cli 17:23 < bkero> No it's not 17:23 < kanzure__> it's running in my CLI :) 17:23 < bkero> Ah 17:23 < bkero> I think there's an X version 17:24 < fenn> is there some way to apt-cache search for packages? like apt-cache show w3m* 17:24 < bkero> apt-cache search w3m 17:24 < kanzure__> fenn: you didn't know about apt-cache search? really? :) 17:24 < fenn> i probably did and forgot 17:25 < fenn> thanks lazyweb 17:28 < kanzure__> hah, w3m-img. neat. 17:35 < kanzure__> any ideas on getting w3m with the lynx key bindings? 17:41 < kanzure__> w3m keymap http://www.lafn.org/~aw585/keymap.html 17:45 < kanzure__> and doesn't alt+1 / alt+2 interfere with irssi's configuration? blah. 17:45 < bkero> So switch your mod key in wmii 17:49 < kanzure__> I don't know how to figure out what the 'windows' key is in the language of 'ALT'='Mod1'. 17:50 < kanzure__> it occurs to me that there should be some way to wrap apps and watch for key presses, thus making silly ghost-layers when an application is being stubborn. /me fetches the dillo source tree. 17:50 < bkero> Damn it 17:50 < bkero> The guy who was supposed to be housing me in new york backed out 18:33 < kanzure__> until I figure out the gtk/dillo keyboard binding nonsense (shouldn't this be a separate file?), opera 9.6* will have to do (new version :)). still has good keyboard bindings. 19:07 < kanzure__> wow, the design repo is even more useless than before now that the FCM/DSM ('function component' and 'design structure' matrices) fail to produce any usable information 19:07 < kanzure__> the DSMs are just excel spreadsheets with a table, where the vertical is the list of subcomponents, and the horizontal is the list of subcomponents too 19:08 < kanzure__> and then at each intersection of each subcomponent with its subcomponent, there's a 1 19:08 < kanzure__> and then there's a 0 otherwise 19:08 < kanzure__> making the entire table completely worthless. 19:18 < kanzure__> interesting .. what I think they're doing is all off of the ontology of material flows, i.e. an app that wants HTML will bark at you because of PDF (or, ideally, malformed HTML, but that's just a pipedream) 19:23 < kanzure__> does anyone have the XML DTD that they were using? 19:23 * kanzure__ trots back to the cafeteria. 20:09 < kanzure> would be useful if I just dumped it to a mysql db. 20:09 < kanzure> does anyone know of an xml->db exporter thingy? 21:46 < kanzure___> eh. I'm not sure the DTD exists. 21:53 -!- Nade|sleep is now known as Nade 22:48 < ybit> you could also try xmonad (lighter code base if you are concerned with bloatware) http://xmonad.org [kanzure] 22:49 < ybit> for the browser, you really might want to try vimperator+firefox if you are using a tiled wm [kanzure] 23:20 < kanzure___> ybit: firefox can't handle more than 10 tabs 23:20 < kanzure___> Opera has fantastic keyboard bindings 23:44 < ybit> are you referring to how much memory firefox uses with 10+ tabs? [kanzure] 23:54 < kanzure_> yes, but also that it starts to lock up because it's spending all of its time sequentially working on each thread