--- Day changed Mon Oct 06 2008
00:42 < kanzure> "To view either live or archived streaming video you will need Internet Explorer 5.0 or higher (or another fully PHP compatible web browser)."
01:05 < nsh> heh
01:18 < kanzure> my spazzy new browser is Ruby on Rails compatible
01:19 < kanzure> it's unfortunate but that first quote was extracted from pdx.edu
03:08 < kanzure> any guesses on what these guys are up to? http://www.smsgratisversturen.nl/bulksms.asmx?WSDL
03:13 < percent_> i'm back
03:13 < percent_> this place reeks of science
03:14 < kanzure> would it make you feel any better if I told you that I've been exploiting multi-billion-dollar corporate backdoors all night?
03:20 -!- percent_ is now known as jihaaaad
03:20 < jihaaaad> yes
03:20 < jihaaaad> details
03:46 < splicer> (...any black ice?)
03:48 < jihaaaad> No, Johnny Case.
03:48 < jihaaaad> I doubt there was any.
03:48 -!- jihaaaad is now known as dxie
03:48 -!- dxie is now known as dixie
03:48 -!- dixie is now known as jihaaaaaad
03:49 < jihaaaaaad> Screw the neuromancer references.
03:52 < splicer> I remember reading that book four times before I understood what it was about.
03:53 < splicer> At the time it was full of new references. 
03:53 < jihaaaaaad> It's always surprised me that there aren't any hackers here
03:54 < jihaaaaaad> you'd think you'd pick up normal hacking before biohacking
03:54 < kanzure> ' An entire Cup Final crowd, cheering and shouting for ninety minutes, generates about enough energy [from their sound] to boil a kettle.''
03:54 < jihaaaaaad> but no
03:54 < jihaaaaaad> kanzure: Did you actually find a 0day?
03:54 < kanzure> jihaaaaaad: nah, you're just wrong
03:54 < splicer> there were.. there was the demo scene and others
03:54 < jihaaaaaad> like genetics is much different from assembly?
03:54 < kanzure> much?
03:55 < jihaaaaaad> it's a RISC ISA
03:55 < jihaaaaaad> which means we, as human beings, are defective and should be thrown away
03:55 < kanzure> Not really .With RISC processors you can basically simulate the whole damn thing. Not so much with the genotype-phenotype problems in genetics.
03:55 < kanzure> no, it's CISC that is defective
03:55 < kanzure> :)
03:56 < jihaaaaaad> NO
03:56 < jihaaaaaad> YOU FUCKING TAKE THAT BACK
03:56 < jihaaaaaad> RIGHT THE FUCK NOW KANZURE
03:56 < jihaaaaaad> YOU FUCKING TAKE IT BACK
03:56  * splicer agrees with Kanz. .. mostly because he is lazy
03:57 < jihaaaaaad> You can sort of simulate CISC
03:57 < jihaaaaaad> we call it VMWare!
03:57 < kanzure> Sigh.
03:57 < kanzure> No you don't.
03:57 < jihaaaaaad> well, ya, it's not a full implementation
03:58 < jihaaaaaad> it also simulates other stuff
03:58 < jihaaaaaad> so
03:58 < splicer> (jihaaaad is a communist)
03:58 < jihaaaaaad> that doesn't mean it doesn't implement x86 at least
03:58 < jihaaaaaad> So maybe I am
03:58 < jihaaaaaad> FOR THE MOTHERLAND
03:59 < splicer> (he he)
04:03 < jihaaaaaad> Once, my ex gave me strep throat.
04:03 < jihaaaaaad> During finals week
04:03 < jihaaaaaad> it was awful.
04:04 < splicer> yeah, she gave it to me too
04:05 < jihaaaaaad> Oh, no doubt.
04:05 < jihaaaaaad> She was a whore. People used to say, "Oh, I know your girlfriend", and I'd be like, "Let me guess, you fucked her. Whoop de do, so has everyone else."
04:06 < jihaaaaaad> Needless to say, she was a lunatic in the sack. God, I'll never date another girl who hasn't had sex with at least ten men.
04:06 < jihaaaaaad> ...at once.
04:06 < splicer> ;) sorry to hear that brother
04:06 < jihaaaaaad> don't be
04:06 < jihaaaaaad> I consider it a positive trait.
04:06 < jihaaaaaad> i recall, once, at a party, she kept trying to get me to fuck her friend
04:06 < jihaaaaaad> Too bad she was an emotional wreck and a heroin addict.
04:07 < splicer> hey taht _is_ nice
04:07 < splicer> ...Im one comment behing always
04:08 < jihaaaaaad> Good girls are so boring.
04:08 < splicer> it's funny that, the shiny alive ones can very well be nuts.
04:08 < jihaaaaaad> Being crazy is fine, I definitely like it.
04:08 < splicer> seriously?
04:08 < jihaaaaaad> oh, yeah
04:09 < jihaaaaaad> I broke up with her because we got too emotionally involved.
04:09 < splicer> smart and nuts is good
04:09 < jihaaaaaad> It was doomed from the start.
04:10 < jihaaaaaad> She was so weird. She never wore deodorant, but she never smelled like body odor...she smelled like...metal and isopropyl alcohol.
04:10 < jihaaaaaad> It was so weird. It was noxious, sort of. Like you'd get a headache from being around her.
04:10 < jihaaaaaad> It didn't even smell human.
04:10 < jihaaaaaad> it wasn't disgusting, just painful over time
04:11 < splicer> a bit like a realdoll then maybe
04:11 < jihaaaaaad> are they made of metal now
04:11 < jihaaaaaad> because
04:11 < jihaaaaaad> if the terminator realdoll is out
04:11 < jihaaaaaad> i am SO buying one
04:11 < splicer> ;)
04:12 < splicer> Smells are important to some women, the way the man smells
04:12 < jihaaaaaad> i smell like sex
04:12 < jihaaaaaad> always
04:13 < splicer> hehe..there is the sniffing thing they do
04:13 < splicer> and they steal shirts
04:13 < jihaaaaaad> Has a girl ever like, confiscated one of your shirts?
04:13 < jihaaaaaad> haa
04:13 < jihaaaaaad> I was typing that.
04:13 < splicer> ;)
04:13 < jihaaaaaad> Why do they do that?
04:13 < splicer> I've caught them sniffing them
04:14 < jihaaaaaad> Women are so creepy.
04:15 < splicer> They are above all women, not to be misstaken for men... as their inner workings are different
04:15 < splicer> I love being a man
04:16 < jihaaaaaad> I'd kill myself if I was female.
04:16 < splicer> Women wouldn't come up with a subculture like the PUA community for instance
04:16 < splicer> yeah ;)
04:16 < jihaaaaaad> I do, however, tend to reject the mental differences between men and women.
04:16 < splicer> I seriously don't
04:16 < jihaaaaaad> I believe all people are more or less equal in their innate abilities, a woman has no excuse for being bad at math, and men have no excuse for being illiterate. 
04:16 < splicer> It's a touchy topic though
04:17 < splicer> exual but different... for instance a woman is far better at calling one up on ones bullshit. 
04:17 < kanzure_> It's quite possible that there's an excuse, though a programmer doesn't like leaving a bug.
04:17 < splicer> (equal)
04:17 < jihaaaaaad> splicer: I can bullshit better than any woman I know.
04:17 < jihaaaaaad> Everything I say is a lie.
04:18 < kanzure_> Have I shown anybody here my genetic circuit for female breast growth induced by bacteria?
04:18 < splicer> and they are probably thinking: "He's full of shit but I'll fuck him anyway"
04:18 < jihaaaaaad> Nah, I can tell when someone knows I'm lying
04:19 < jihaaaaaad> As much as I hate the accursed, poisoned, cliche, I was a social engineer long before I knew what one was.
04:19 < splicer> like a recursive bullshit detector
04:19 < jihaaaaaad> see, that's why i like lies
04:19 < jihaaaaaad> they sometimes display recursion and branching, even
04:19 < jihaaaaaad> They're almost alive...social mechanisms, set whirring to completion....
04:20 < splicer> women collectively have exceptional bullshit detectors
04:20 < jihaaaaaad> not really
04:20 < splicer> yes really
04:20 < jihaaaaaad> they're easier to lie to than are men
04:20 < splicer> but they also happen to laove games and drama
04:20 < jihaaaaaad> The easiest to lie to are intelligent women.
04:20 < splicer> I agree
04:21 < splicer> (but they still know one is bullshitting them)
04:21 < jihaaaaaad> Even if they knew
04:21 < splicer> (and you know what I mean)
04:21 < jihaaaaaad> they act as if they didn't
04:21 < jihaaaaaad> Ultimately, the effect is as if they didn't know.
04:21 < splicer> yes.. the sordid games we play
04:21 < splicer> yeah
04:22 < jihaaaaaad> Guys, should I go meet a tranny hooker in a graveyard?
04:23 < splicer> ykiokbinmk
04:31 < gene> no
04:31 < splicer> it's ok.. it's his mom
04:38 < gene> question here: is it possible to extract metals from seawater via electroplating?
04:38 < jihaaaaaad> Hey
04:39 < jihaaaaaad> I want to find a surgeon to perform medically questionable operations on me
04:39 < jihaaaaaad> like implantations and shit
04:39 < jihaaaaaad> where do i find such a black surgeon 
04:39 < kanzure_> KFC?
04:39 < kanzure_> +A-*`````````
04:39 < kanzure_> `AA
04:40 < kanzure_> Shit. Keyboard fell.
04:40 < gene> that alley behind the chinese restaurant
04:40 < kanzure_> gene: No, you see, it's funny because he's black.
04:40 < gene> it's not illegal to perform such operations
04:40 < kanzure_> Without a license it is.
04:41  * kanzure_ has looked into surgeries for brain implants
04:41 < gene> some guy had an amateur implant a magnet in his hand
04:41 < kanzure_> yeah, I've met him
04:41 < jihaaaaaad> i saw that
04:41 < kanzure_> it was in his finger tips
04:41 < gene> shit kanzure
04:41 < jihaaaaaad> It also broke apart after time
04:41 < gene> yup
04:41 < kanzure_> Todd also does bil, the "other" TED conference
04:42 < kanzure_> last I checked he was doing destructive neural uploading with diamond knives and mitochondrial simulations.
04:42 < gene> ouch
04:42 < gene> that's gotta hurt
04:42 < jihaaaaaad> So would he implant, say, a thermocouple mesh into my back?
04:43 < kanzure_> Meh, I think he had a random friend help him with the finger implants.
04:43 < gene> hmmm... interesting
04:43 < gene> to power your cellphone?
04:43 < jihaaaaaad> I think any mind uploading is pretty pointless till we've really got molecular nanotechnology
04:44 < jihaaaaaad> gene: to power anything else I implant.
04:44 < kanzure_> what the fuck is a mind
04:44 < jihaaaaaad> Dunno, but it comes from yo brain, yo
04:44 < gene> like? 
04:44 < jihaaaaaad> so you fuckin dupe dat shit
04:44 < kanzure_> jihaaaaaad: so let's deal with the brain then, eh?
04:44 < gene> a calculator?
04:44 < kanzure_> gene: thermocouples have been used in brain implants before, for instance
04:44 < jihaaaaaad> gene: Dunno. I kind of wanted to wire them up to my adrenal glands, in the absence of any implants.
04:44 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/neuro/
04:44 < jihaaaaaad> Have a constant adrenaline rush.
04:45 < kanzure_> Hrm.
04:45 < kanzure_> How about a constant amphetamine rush?
04:45 < jihaaaaaad> this would be the ultimate high
04:45 < jihaaaaaad> Plus, it'd make me a beast, athletically. 
04:45 < gene> not if you have a huge thermocouple mesh implanted in your back
04:45 < kanzure_> Somebody in here was suggesting getting rid of the muscle growth blocking factor via aptamers in the blood.
04:46 < kanzure_> it might have been me
04:46 < jihaaaaaad> gene: I imagine it'd be abotu a millimeter thick
04:46 < gene> RNA lassos?
04:46 < jihaaaaaad> kanzure: If you'd like to test a myostatin inhibitor, may I be first?
04:46 < gene> RNA lassos might do the trick
04:46 < jihaaaaaad> those sound likely to kill me
04:46 < gene> they're little mobius loops of rna
04:47 < jihaaaaaad> see, they're mobius strips
04:47 < gene> they can inhibit genes like nobody's business
04:47 < jihaaaaaad> you can't use a 1-dimensional method to treat a three-dimensional problem!
04:47 < jihaaaaaad> Gene: Explain them to me?
04:48 < gene> http://www.somagenics.com/platform.html
04:48 < gene> sorry but I have to AFK
04:49 < jihaaaaaad> Hm...is it permanent?
04:49 < gene> nope
04:50 < gene> it's RNAi
04:50 < kanzure_> siRNA is the holy grail at the moment
04:50 < kanzure_> anyway, aptamers are not RNAi
04:50 < jihaaaaaad> I was about to ask.
04:50 < gene> they're not?
04:50 < jihaaaaaad> I don't want to permanently deactivate the gene yet
04:50 < kanzure_> jihaaaaaad: Nothing like that.
04:51 < jihaaaaaad> ok lets do it
04:51 < jihaaaaaad> someone find me a myostatin inhibitor and a needle
04:51 < gene> siRNA is so yesterday
04:51 < gene> big iRNA is the future
04:51 < gene> I guess
04:52 < jihaaaaaad> kanzure_: What was the biopunk novel you once set me?
04:52 < jihaaaaaad> Ribofunk?
04:52 < kanzure_> Was probably Splicer that recommended Ribofunk.
04:53 < jihaaaaaad> what did you advise
04:53 < jihaaaaaad> I've always wondered what would happen if a consortium of hackers tried to publish a scientific paper.
04:53 < kanzure_> Biopunk stuff? nothing much. Greg Egan and Greg Bear have done some minor stuff. Slonczweski's "Brain Plague" maybe.
04:53 < jihaaaaaad> A good paper. 
04:53 < jihaaaaaad> like
04:53 < jihaaaaaad> Very scientific.
04:53 < kanzure_> Neverness for everything though
04:53 < jihaaaaaad> Just not affiliated with any university. 
04:54 < kanzure_> Hrm, I'm sure IEEE has a few hidden hackers in their nonacademic publications
04:54 < gene> I haven't read any biopunk
04:54 < jihaaaaaad> No, like
04:54 < jihaaaaaad> we go and do research, right?
04:54 < jihaaaaaad> We document it, make sure it's good scientific data.
04:54 < jihaaaaaad> Then we try to publish in like
04:54 < jihaaaaaad> nano today
04:55 < jihaaaaaad> Under fake names, or no names.
04:56 < splicer> (I haven't read Ribofunk) 
04:56 < jihaaaaaad> FAG
04:56 < splicer> obviously
04:56 < jihaaaaaad> kanzure: it was the one with the Ashkenazi in it
04:56 < kanzure_> Hrm.
04:56 < kanzure_> What do you mean?
04:57 < kanzure_> A biopunk novel with ashkenazis. Gah.
04:57 < kanzure_> That's highly specific.
04:58 < jihaaaaaad> That's how I roll.
06:16 < kanzure_> Hm.
06:16 < kanzure_> matweb.zip's HTML files should be converted into matml
06:16 < kanzure_> not yaml or plaintext or a mysql/postgres db.
06:17 < UtopiahGHML> anything structured basically
06:17 < kanzure_> http://matml.org/
06:17 < kanzure_> are you familiar with it?
06:17 < kanzure_> it's a nice effort, but unfortunately nobody uses it
06:17 < UtopiahGHML> not at all but since I can see a little *ML I probably can understand what it's all about 
06:17 < kanzure_> there's about a total of one material written up in matml
06:18 < kanzure_> http://www.matml.org/
06:18  * kanzure_ hates the www*-enthusiasts
06:18 < UtopiahGHML> the best thing for you would be to pick a structure language (*ML whatever)
06:18 < UtopiahGHML> find a structure in your existing HTML
06:18 < UtopiahGHML> write a converter, apply it then manually correct the few bugs 
06:18 < kanzure_> well yeah
06:18 < kanzure_> that's what I'm saying
06:19 < UtopiahGHML> improve the writer, etc... till you get sth good enough to finish by editing directly the result
06:19 < kanzure_> I was earlier just going to convert the HTML directly into something else, something other than MatML because I wasn't thinking
06:19 < UtopiahGHML> not thinking can be a good idea if you ask for trusted friends who can think for you ;)
06:21 < UtopiahGHML> do you know of any IdeaML ?
06:21 < kanzure_> sort of, yes
06:21 < UtopiahGHML> or RDF to express ideas
06:21 < kanzure_> I know of 'ideanomics'. :)
06:22 < kanzure_> it's a combinatorial art of ideas. kind of like TRIX except less bullshitty. one guy spent 15 years going through this massive informational combinatorial idea space.
06:22 < UtopiahGHML> oh, they do have a structured language already?
06:22 < kanzure_> unfortunately not. if there was going to be one, it'd just be some rules on top of grammar or something.
06:23 < UtopiahGHML> hmmm they seem to be very patent oriented :/
06:23 < kanzure_> I might have said the wrong term, it's 'ideonomics' maybe
06:23 < kanzure_> if you don't hit an mit.edu website, I'm wrong.
06:23 < kanzure_> Peter Gaskell or something.
06:23 < UtopiahGHML> http://ideanomics.com/ideanomics-dashboard/
06:23 < kanzure_> nope
06:23 < kanzure_> sorry, my bad
06:24 < UtopiahGHML> well you mistake made me discover another competitor so it's good, ty :)
06:24 < kanzure_> aha
06:24 < kanzure_> here we go
06:24 < kanzure_> http;//ideonomy.mit.edu/gunkel.html
06:25 < UtopiahGHML> ideanomics.com seems to be just a communication portal for Knowligent "IP Management Software" (hence their interests on patents)
06:25 < kanzure_> blah! see my mit.edu link
06:28 < UtopiahGHML> "Patrick Gunkel Is An Idea Man Who Thinks in Lists"
06:28 < UtopiahGHML> sounds like a Lisp addict
06:28 < UtopiahGHML> (which is a good start actually)
06:29 < UtopiahGHML> sounds a lot like Smart World by Richard Ogle
06:29 < kanzure_> Thinking in lists has its downfalls .. http://heybryan.org/todo.html I too was trapped in lists for many years.
06:30 < UtopiahGHML> but going very well my personal view of creativity as evo algo/evo epistemology though : "the science of the laws of ideas and of the application of such laws to the generation of all possible ideas in connection with any subject, idea or thing."
06:30 < UtopiahGHML> what do you have now, a todo network?
06:31 < kanzure_> hah :)
06:31 < kanzure_> no, I call it 'virtual productivity'
06:31 < kanzure_> things get done without my actually doing them
06:31 < wrldpc> heh
06:31 < wrldpc> wuwei
06:31 < kanzure_> ?
06:32 < UtopiahGHML> "Just dream it" kanzure's "virtual productivity"
06:32 < wrldpc> do w/o doing
06:32 < wrldpc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei
06:32 < kanzure_> UtopiahGHML: No kidding. The other day I woke up in front of a terminal full of code that I hardly remember writing.
06:32 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/repo/2008-10-02.pl <-- See the comments? Can /you/ understand them? :(
06:34 < kanzure_> wrldpc: Thanks for the link. :)
06:34 < kanzure_> I like it a lot.
06:34 < wrldpc> no sweat
06:34 < kanzure_> I've sometimes wondered how the hell one thing can be 'harder' than any other thing. 
06:34 < kanzure_> So this natural 'movement' is the only thing that makes sense to me.
06:34 < wrldpc> spooky action at a distance, eh?
06:34 < kanzure_> Not quite.
06:35 < kanzure_> I mean quite literally, how is it that people know when something is 'hard' and when it is not hard? Does the universe start going into overclocking mode? I doubt it.
06:35 < wrldpc> prolly already as OC'd as it can be, eh?
06:35 < wrldpc> o'clocked
06:35 < kanzure_> nah, it has blackhole cooling
06:36 < UtopiahGHML> kanzure_: yep I understand what you mean, usually I call it "just do it" I don't overplan and just FUCKING do it then I check the next day and... wtf it's done ! :P
06:36 < wrldpc> mm
06:36 < kanzure_> UtopiahGHML: Ah, but I am a victim of overplanning, no matter how much I'd like it to be otherwise.
06:36 < kanzure_> todo.html is clearly an example of that. 
06:36 < kanzure_> (I stopped when I lost a year or two worth of data in that system.)
06:37 < UtopiahGHML> you might have a look at decision under uncertainty and research in the military field
06:37 < kanzure_> I would spend one, even two hours a day in overhead processing
06:37 < UtopiahGHML> haha data lost is totally what makes you optimize :D
06:37 < kanzure_> I was talking with Gunkel about his ideonomy work, and he too was doing tons of overhead. I'm surprised it didn't kill him.
06:37 < UtopiahGHML> I love harddrive crashes
06:37 < kanzure_> wtf?
06:37 < UtopiahGHML> really
06:37 < wrldpc> I had an argument with a Chinese shop-keeper online today.
06:37 < kanzure_> wrldpc: yeah?
06:38 < UtopiahGHML> you have to become independant from your data and tools thus data crashes are healthy, you start by good basis and ONLY what really matters
06:38 < wrldpc> "Benny
06:38 < wrldpc> 12:00 AM
06:38 < wrldpc> MONEY IS NOT THE SUPREME VALUE OF THE WORLD, YUAN."
06:38 < kanzure_> UtopiahGHML: My point though is that there are certain tricks that you can start to employ so that you don't have to always be there to make schedules happen and so on. http://austinbrains.org/ I'm feeding my event optimizer from an ICS distributed from the university and local news sources. No more overhead with my typing.
06:38 < wrldpc> Yuan: "yeah. u are right.but the knowledge isnt just studied on the book."
06:38 < kanzure_> just studied on the book?
06:38 < wrldpc> heh
06:38 < kanzure_> what else is there but the narrative?
06:38 < wrldpc> mm
06:39 < wrldpc> I'm trying to encourage him to go back to school and study science ..
06:40 < wrldpc> Trying to drill home the fact:  knowledge>money
06:40 < kanzure_> I'm not sure that is possible past a certain age ;-)
06:40 < wrldpc> mm
06:40 < kanzure_> Case and point .. my brother.
06:40 < wrldpc> old dogs new tricks?
06:40 < wrldpc> oh :(
06:40 < UtopiahGHML> ask him to be him a brain and pre-activated happyness neurons and to pay cash
06:41 < kanzure_> money is like dualism, except this time the philosophers are beating the shit out of you
06:41 < kanzure_> and they wear hoods and call themselves economists.
06:42 < wrldpc> Knowledge>money
06:42 < wrldpc> every time
06:42 < wrldpc> data is the omega
06:43 < wrldpc> the final unit of value
06:43 < wrldpc> anyway
06:43 < kanzure_> wrldpc: He's been so far gone for so long. Even when he was young .. even in the video games, instead of playing he would rather sit back and watch somebody collect coins and count how many they have. Even when playing with other children. And even in his day to day interactions now.
06:43 < UtopiahGHML> but your friend is right in the sense that aquiring knowledge requires resources thus money in a form or another
06:43 < kanzure_> "thus money" what?
06:44 < kanzure_> Ramanujan had no money.
06:44 < UtopiahGHML> money is an abstraction of resources
06:44 < kanzure_> And he reconstructed the entirety of European mathematics with a single hand.
06:44 < UtopiahGHML> you can trade an apple for meat with money, it's just available resoruces
06:44 < UtopiahGHML> so he had sufficiant resources
06:44 < kanzure_> What the hell are you on about?
06:45 < kanzure_> I'm going to sleep.
06:45 < wrldpc> night
06:45 < UtopiahGHML> night
06:45 < wrldpc> quid pro quo, right utopia?
06:45 < wrldpc> this for that
06:46 < wrldpc> I was trying to tell my friend Yuan here that the future has no need for businessmen.
06:46 < wrldpc> What we need are scientists and artists ... you could say just scientists actually.
06:47 < wrldpc> youtube.com/thecarruths
06:47 < wrldpc> http://youtube.com/thecarruths
06:47 < UtopiahGHML> I value money less than most people
06:48 < UtopiahGHML> but since now I have no resources
06:48 < UtopiahGHML> beside my knowledge
06:48 < UtopiahGHML> I...
06:48 < UtopiahGHML> need to...
06:48 < UtopiahGHML> find a solution :P
07:00 < wrldpc> i understand your predicament.
07:00 < wrldpc> nanoreplication will solve all of our problems.
07:04 < UtopiahGHML> wrldpc: are you think about money counterfeiting ? :P
07:04 < wrldpc> yes, quite frankly.
07:04 < wrldpc> but not as it regards nanoreplication.
07:05 < UtopiahGHML> never thought about nanorep like that
07:05 < UtopiahGHML> oh ok
07:05 < wrldpc> Why bother nanofeiting paper money when you can create whatever your heart desires? :)
07:06 < UtopiahGHML> oh, that's why I never thougt about nanorep money before :P
07:06 < wrldpc> :)
07:06 < wrldpc> But yes ... the knowledge of how to print/mint/coin money is worth more than the money itself.
07:06 < wrldpc> I am very interested in this procedure.
08:00 < splicer> chomsky often talks about how private corporations have a businessmodel where they tap into tax money. That's a time honored tradition I think + the laws are actually set up to protect you.
08:01 < splicer> why print money if there is a sream to tap into
08:09 < UtopiahGHML> splicer: it's part of the game, a government does not direct you by giving order (some government at least?) but "orients" you by high tax/tax cuts. Since we all have an economical incentive we tend to do what the government wants us to go.
08:10 < UtopiahGHML> \wants us to do\
08:13 < splicer> It seems to me chomsky is right, there are two lanes. In one you are protected, If you fuck up you are bailed out. If there is a war you don't go. And then there is the other lane where there is 'tough love'. Better to be in the first lane. 
08:18 < splicer> Funny thing is I think it is this way because of biological harwireing. What chomsky calls 'Looking out for number one', that is protecting and obeying whoever is in charge - May very well have made evolutionery sence. 
08:23 < splicer> (biopunk)
09:40 < wrldpc> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/sunday-evening-update
12:36 < kanzure_> Hrm, I should probably set up some WSDL on my own server for stuff other than HTTP.
12:37 < kanzure_> You know, with the business bullshit I posted to the openmanufacturing mailing list, it's possible to just automatically generate a business, turnkey and such. Then you sit and wait for deals. Hiccups in supply chains and such, where you swoosh in to the rescue, but only if you already have connectivity to the big players. (connecting various deals)
12:37 < kanzure_> It's not much more than a few wget's in the end :/
--- Log closed Mon Oct 06 12:50:37 2008
--- Log opened Mon Oct 06 12:56:44 2008
12:56 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 17 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 17 normal]
12:57 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 54 secs
13:09 < fenn> lots of talk but light on details: http://www.freeformconstruction.co.uk/
14:33 -!- You're now known as bkero
14:56 < faceface> kanzure, about that hypothetial torrent link... what would the hypothetical url be?
14:57 < nsh> btw guys, how're the polymerase hacking ideas coming along?
14:57 < faceface> nsh, any overview?
14:58  * nsh never quite groked the idea in any detail
14:58 < bkero> lol
14:58 < nsh> something like, make DNA polymerase programmable by LASARS YAY
14:58 < faceface> isn't that a redundancy?
14:58  * nsh smiles
14:58 < faceface> nsh, cool
14:59 < faceface> that was how I (only just!) understood it too
14:59 < faceface> I'd rather feed it ntps one at a time
14:59 < nsh> kanzure, fix ur server plskthx
14:59 < nsh> mmm
14:59 < faceface> and somehow allow it only to add one ...
14:59 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 15 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
15:00  * bkero grins
15:00 < nsh> i'd rather use electrodynamic stimulation to simulate a template molecule
15:00 < nsh> using complex water structure manipulation
15:00 < nsh> ie, MAGIC
15:00 < faceface> btw, an idea has been driving me crazy since a trib to the dump yesterday (where I saw a skip full of washing mahchines and microwaves)
15:00 < nsh> go on
15:00 < faceface> nsh, but my suggestion is not so magic
15:00 < faceface> oh, well you know those pictures of plasma in the microwave?
15:01 < nsh> it's ok, you can always add a MAGIC step
15:01  * nsh nods
15:01 < faceface> (moving pictures)
15:01  * nsh checks teh 'tubes
15:01 < faceface> lets use the motor from a washing machine to create a powerfull vortex, then focus the microwave source onto the base of the vortex
15:01 < bkero> Try putting splitting grapes vertically, facing both sides down, and tossing it in a microwave.  You get a nice big plasma arc.
15:01 < faceface> splitting grapes?
15:02 < nsh> one sec, checking reactions
15:02 < bkero> Cut grapes in half, vertically
15:02 < faceface> so the vortex contains the plasma...
15:02 < faceface> I'm not sure if this would work, or if it did what it would be good for...
15:03 < faceface> but like, you could throw garbage in it and watch it get eaten by the plasma vortex
15:03 < bkero> Microwaves are very very useful salvage bits.
15:03 < bkero> They probably have the biggest capacitors you've ever seen on them.
15:03 < faceface> bkero, that is what I was thinking... and there were like 6 of them...
15:03 < faceface> I just wanted something to do with them...
15:04 < bkero> Get the caps
15:04 < faceface> i.e. fit teh source into a parabolic reflector to focus the beam of like 4, then generate a ball of plama... then contain the ball in a vortex of air
15:04 < bkero> Make a huge badass welder.
15:04 < faceface> caps?... coool!
15:04 < bkero> With 6 of them you could pull enough amps to weld car frames.  Seriously.
15:05 < faceface> nice... but I'd not volenteer to hold the metal...
15:05 < bkero> You could make it into a badass plasma cutter too
15:05 < faceface> plasma cutter?
15:05 < bkero> Haha you have no idea of the ghetto shit I'm capable of.
15:05 < bkero> Yea.  Welders that powerful also act like cutters on thinner metal.
15:05 < faceface> bkero, microwaves are the new lazer...
15:05 < faceface> why the word plasma?
15:05  * bkero has a 35mw laser.  It's evil stuff.  Although I'd like to get a green one.
15:06 < bkero> Pulled it out of a DVDRW
15:06 < faceface> bkero, on the internets I have seen quite large balls of plasma ... the problem is that the microwave oven overheats and explodes after like 8 seconds
15:07 < faceface> do you think a vortex could be used to contain the plasma, or would it just dissipate too quikly?
15:07 < bkero> A vortex?
15:08 < faceface> a cyclone... 
15:08 < faceface> like in the dyson ;-)
15:08 < faceface> only generated using a big fan
15:08 < bkero> Plasma is a gas, not a fluid.  Can you vortex it?
15:08 < faceface> sure
15:08 < faceface> I think
15:09 < bkero> I think that in a regular atmosphere the plasma would dissipate itself too quickly.
15:09 < nsh> you could use only a grill to prevent microwave leakage
15:09 < bkero> Or rather equalize out the ion imbalance
15:09 < nsh> which would give you more leeway to manipulate the air flow from outside the containment chamber
15:09 < nsh> hence not having it in an airtight chamber, bkero
15:10 < nsh> but i wonder
15:10 < bkero> You'd need it in an environment of inert gasses.
15:10 < nsh> how stable a vortex would be in the presence of the high temperature plasma
15:10 < faceface> agh! ff crashed gnome again.
15:10 < nsh> the gas expansion would probably cause some problems
15:10 < faceface> I was searching for a picture
15:11 < faceface> nsh, yeah, it would rise like a bastard
15:11  * nsh nods
15:11 < bkero> Can't be that bad.
15:11 < bkero> What's really bad is trying to compress evaporated nitrogen
15:11 < faceface> but I figure if the beams from the microwaves were focused at the base...
15:11 < faceface> evaporated nitrogen?
15:11 < bkero> Unrelated
15:12 < bkero> I'm confused, does the microwave generate the plasma?
15:12 < faceface> bkero, have you seen the movies?
15:12 < bkero> Microwaves strictly operate at 2.5GHz, all they do is resonate water.
15:12 < bkero> Apparently not.
15:12 < faceface> 10 insanly dumb things to do with a microwave
15:13 < faceface> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=A7RFyh5ABcQ
15:13 < faceface> christ there running that a long time!
15:14 < nsh> once the gas is plasmised, it continues to absorb energy from the microwaves through eddy currents
15:15 < faceface> baby
15:15 < faceface> that how the sun works btw
15:15 < faceface> everyone is on about fission, but thats wrong 
15:17 < faceface> I just love the idea of plasma! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ADzAz4xVVes
15:17 < nsh> hmm?
15:19 < faceface> nsh, you prolly thought the sun was a fission reactor yes?
15:19 < nsh> *fusion?
15:19 < faceface> uh... oh yea ;-)
15:19 < nsh> yeah, i've always been in two minds
15:19 < faceface> its actually electric
15:20 < nsh> i'm reasonably sure most of the energy actually comes from gravitational condensation
15:20 < faceface> you mean like solar rain?
15:21 < nsh> no i mean that more of the radiated energy is originally momentum from the collapsing matter
15:22 < nsh> here: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/gravc.html
15:22 < faceface> I see
15:23 < nsh> but anyway, go  on
15:23 < nsh> how do you mean the reactor is electric?
15:27 < fenn> plasma is not a gas. duh.
15:27 < bkero> Plasma is just plasma.
15:27 < fenn> when a plasma is spun around in a vortex it generates a magnetic field which constricts the plasma. there's a positive feedback loop and you get a very tight string-like vortex
15:28 < fenn> this is how tornadoes work
15:28 < fenn> and plasma cutters
15:28 < fenn> i dont see wtf washing machine has to do with anything though
15:29 < bkero> Washing machines have a fixed speed AC motor
15:54 < fenn> omgwtfbbq
15:54 < fenn> "I once developed a concept for real- 
15:54 < fenn> world functional architecture based on earth-bermed ferro-cement  
15:54 < fenn> pavilion structures from a deconstruction of fearie lore for a  
15:54 < fenn> community called Lothlorian in, if memory serves, Indiana."
15:56 < nsh> bermed?
15:56 < fenn> and i just lived with the guy who de-constructed all that stuff after terry kok moved out
15:57 < fenn> world closing in on me.. too small...
15:57 < faceface> nsh, sorry, I got distracted
15:57 < fenn> earth-berm is a fancy term for big pile of dirt
15:57 < nsh> who's terry kok, fenn?
15:57 < faceface> nsh, google 'electric sun'
15:57 < nsh> ah, ok
15:57 < faceface> fenn, coool!
15:58 < faceface> I didn't realize that strange things would happen when I spun the plasma
15:58 < nsh> sounds pseudorific, faceface :-)
15:58 < faceface> yeah
15:58  * nsh once started reading an e-book on the electric universe 'theory'
15:58 < nsh> was interesting
15:58 < fenn> terry kok is an ex-nasa contractor who decided to "go it alone" and make his own closed environment life support system
15:59 < faceface> what shape would my spinning plasma vortex take?
15:59 < nsh> oh, cool
15:59 < faceface> could I use it to ... 
15:59 < fenn> there was some political crap that went down in lothlorien and he left.. i guess he's working on biostar II now
15:59 < faceface> I have no idea what this could be good for...
16:08 < kanzure___> Huh. Apparently for my http://heybryan.org/2008-08-15.html stuff, you only really need to make sure that you're doing stimulation at ridiculously high frequencies with short amplitudes, and beyond that it doesn't really matter how many volts you're sending into the neurons.
16:09 < kanzure___> Also, annoyingly, when I mentioned Ed Boyden, Dr. Mauk, my cerebellum, said that he was on Ed's thesis advisory committee. 
16:10 < kanzure___> I keep forgetting that when it comes to name dropping, professors are going to have me beat.
16:10 < kanzure___> nsh: is my damn server broken again?
16:10 < nsh> apparantly
16:11 < kanzure___> Dan: re that hypothetical torrent link, you'll have to wait until I get back at my dorm so that I can go yell at someone who I've been uploading it to at a shockingly slow rate .. he'll start torrenting it, he has ridiculous pipes and so on, and I trust him since he's a paranoid security freak :)
16:12 < kanzure___> as for the retarded laser-programmable polymerase stuff - there's designs for the first half experiment where polymerase can be selected to write only A's, but it's kind of tedious and would require some grants probably, the second part of the polymerase hacking where you try to combine the selective polymerase-writers, well, that's still up in the air but I think preliminarily you could do some simulations to show that it may or may not
16:13 < kanzure___> bkero: Re: splitting grapes :) I do that all the time when I eat them. heh'
16:13  * kanzure___ wonders why he doesn't have arc discharge from his hands after doing so
16:13 < bkero> microwave is a critical component :P
16:15 < wrldpc> Did anyone catch the date Intel says the singularity will occur?  2035 or something?  2038?
16:15 < bkero> Don't believe anything intel says
16:15 < wrldpc> heh
16:16 < wrldpc> ok
16:16 < bkero> Listen to Kurzweil
16:16 < bkero> also check out MIPS per mass
16:16 < bkero> Like 1 MIPS/gram
16:16 < wrldpc> Kurzweil and Intel are joining together for the Sing Summit on the 25th in San Jose O.o
16:16 < bkero> I guess that would be weight :P
16:17 < wrldpc> That's not instructions per second, right?
16:17 < bkero> Million instructions per second.
16:18 < wrldpc> I thought it was like microprocessor w/o interlinking pipe stages or something 
16:18 < wrldpc> solid state architecture?
16:18 < bkero> MIPS is also a little endian architecture.  It's really outdated by now.
16:18 < bkero> It was used by a lot of SGI stuff.
16:18 < wrldpc> oh
16:18 < wrldpc> yeah!
16:18 < bkero> Sme acronym between two things.
16:19 < wrldpc> Do you believe the technological singularity has already occurred?
16:19 < kanzure___> ATTN: SINGULARITY SCHEDULED FOR 3 PM E.T. PLEASE REMAIN HUMAN.
16:19 < wrldpc> acronym-sharing confuses my brain :)
16:19 < bkero> For a certain view it was already achieved with humanity.
16:20 < wrldpc> LOL Bryan!  You stay in Sunday Evening Update :)
16:20 < kanzure___> yeah :)
16:20 < wrldpc> What I'm saying is if a vastly intelligent non-biological entity did exist how would you know?  bleh bleh bleh
16:20 < kanzure___> I'm not in there at the moment though. I'm on a different box.
16:20 < wrldpc> cool!
16:20 < kanzure___> wrldpc: You have to be careful here.
16:20 < kanzure___> There are many people claiming that 'singularity' just means intelligence explosion.
16:20 < kanzure___> But there's other factors that lead to the same sort of singularity
16:20 < kanzure___> like self-replication ;-)
16:21 < wrldpc> I like how they keep the programming going.  I've embedded the player on my myspace to try and increase exposure to the memez.
16:21 < kanzure___> "they" = Mind
16:21 < nsh> what player?
16:21 < kanzure___> I just sit on the IRC channel, I don't watch the stream
16:21 < wrldpc> Do you think that the construction of AI is just metaphor for the conception of children?
16:21 < bkero> kanzure___: How wouldn't humans fit under the guise of achieved singularity?
16:21 < kanzure___> wrldpc: Somewhat, but whatever.
16:21 < kanzure___> bkero: What? Restate?
16:21 < wrldpc> I asked a woman this ... she said something to the effect of "similar yes .."
16:22 < kanzure___> wrldpc: Somewhat because .. many parents already try to be 'strict' with their 'Ai children' and those children /still/ rebel.
16:22 < kanzure___> teenage rebellion rawr
16:22 < kanzure___> "Get back here you pesky kids!"
16:22 < bkero> kanzure___: Some say that singularity was achieved with the dawn of humanity.
16:22 < kanzure___> bkero: Okay.
16:22 < wrldpc> mm
16:22 < kanzure___> I try not to focus on the term too much because it's been hijacked so many times and it's being used by a cult and everything.
16:22 < wrldpc> some say humanity ended in 1936.
16:23 < kanzure___> what's humanity?
16:23 < wrldpc> lol the singularity cult.
16:23 < wrldpc> srsly
16:23 < kanzure___> Anissimov, for instance, is very adament about killing anybody who doesn't think that the singularity is "For intelligence only!"
16:23 < bkero> Humanity or mankind is the human species, human nature (e.g.compassion, altruism) and the human condition (the totality of experience of existing as a human). It is also the study of one branch of the humanities, academic disciplines which study the human condition using analytic, critical, or speculative methods.
16:23 < kanzure___> I doubt that humanity is just the sum total of 'intelligence' ..
16:24 < kanzure___> 'Human condition' I can understand -- the same problems I see are the same ones you have, yadda yadda
16:24 < kanzure___> but whatever.
16:24 < kanzure___> What are we talking about?
16:24 < wrldpc> LOL
16:24 < wrldpc> exactly
16:27 < kanzure___> Are you hgih?
16:27 < kanzure___> *high
16:27 < fenn> why do you have multiple IRC logins kanzure? you use irssi so using screen should be straightforward
16:27 < fenn> or am i wrong about the irssi part
16:28 < fenn> nevermind it's pidgin right
16:28 < kanzure___> laptop has pidgin
16:28 < kanzure___> server has irssi
16:28 < kanzure___> lab has irssi
16:28 < kanzure___> am I missing something?
16:29 < fenn> you can run one irssi session/login and view it on many computers with screen
16:30 < kanzure___> is this in man?
16:31 < fenn> or any terminal-based app.. irssi is just the first one i could stand
16:31 < bkero> Yea dude
16:31 < bkero> Just use screen
16:31 < bkero> Then ssh in and connect from anywhere.
16:32 < ybit> screen is the shiz
16:32 < fenn> ah yes i forgot to mention ssh
16:32 < ybit> each computer i'm at, if i start to download a linux distro, the internet suddenly stops working :|
16:33 < fenn> ybit: are you on DSL?
16:33 < ybit> (at the uni. labs) t1
16:33 < bkero> A t1?  Seriously?
16:33 < fenn> hm. good luck
16:33 < bkero> That blows hARD
16:33 < ybit> indeed
16:33 < bkero> 1.5MB is bullshit
16:34 < ybit> anyway, if i'm away in the next hour or so, that's the reason
16:34 < ybit> need to put a linux distro on my thumb drive
16:34 < ybit> maybe i should use damn small or puppy, something really small
16:35 < ybit> so i can use the internet while it downloads and so that it will finish downloading
16:35 < bkero> rate limit it
16:35 < ybit> ah
16:37 < wrldpc> transfer rates suck in general,
16:37 < bkero> Use wget
16:37 < wrldpc> all this rate limiting, capping BS is teh suck.
16:38 < wrldpc> TEXT MESSAGING costs $1,000 a MEGABYTE.  ::freaks out::
16:38 < fenn> damn small is much better than puppy fwiw
16:38 < wrldpc> ::throws things::
16:38 < fenn> wrldpc: uh, use twitter or irc instead?
16:39 < wrldpc> heh
16:39 < wrldpc> 90% of my friends don't even know what IRC is :(
16:39 < fenn> of course cellphones are a parasitic organism feeding on ignorance
16:39 < fenn> what do you expect?
16:40 < bkero> I use IRC on my phone :)
16:40 < wrldpc> *boinks the cellphones*
16:40 < bkero> terminal + ssh + screen
16:40 < fenn> bkero: what does your internet connection cost?
16:40 < bkero> $31/month for my cell phone bill
16:40 < bkero> unlimited data
16:40 < bkero> ENough text messages
16:41 < fenn> how unlimited is unlimited? and what's the bandwidth?
16:41 < fenn> and can i get a phone without all that pesky voice stuff?
16:41 < kanzure___> wrldpc: AIM used to have a gateway to (some) cellphones for SMS/text-messaging
16:41 < bkero> I can get 25k/sec down.  I could do that all month and only do a couple gigs.
16:41 < kanzure___> TOC/OSCAR stuff
16:42 < kanzure___> bkero: wtf, what plan is that?
16:42 < kanzure___> I rarely see unlimited data plans
16:42 < fenn> 25kB right? that's 65GB
16:42 < bkero> kanzure___: AT&T iPhone plan ;)
16:42  * kanzure___ is always jealous of blackberry users etc.
16:42 < kanzure___> iPhone, bah
16:42 < bkero> What's wrong with my iPhone? :P
16:42 < fenn> patents
16:42 < bkero> Is there any patents on it besides a multitouch implementation?
16:43 < fenn> touchscreen and user interface patents.. i dont know the details
16:43 < bkero> lol
16:43 < bkero> ALmost every device you use has a bunch of patents.
16:43 < fenn> i really just want a modem for my wearable
16:43 < fenn> bkero: yes i know. you asked
16:44 < bkero> I tether with my iPhone. :P
16:44 < bkero> It's how I've gotten internet access at home for the last week.
16:45  * fenn wonders about satellite phone modem
16:46 < fenn> uf $800 is "cheap"
16:46  * fenn stomps on reagan's grave
16:50 < kanzure___> yay for octoindicial MySQL queries!
16:51 < kanzure___> I wonder if I should have done some calculations first to see whether or not this will take infinity
16:52 < kanzure___> SELECT m.name, q.ArtifactName FROM `flows` AS j, `flow` AS k, `possibleflow_thingies` AS m, `subfunctions` AS n, `subfunction` AS o, `artifacts` AS p, `artifact` AS q WHERE j.subfunctionsID = n.ID AND n.subfunctionID = o.ID AND o.SubInputArtifact = p.ID AND p.artifactID = q.ID AND j.flowID = k.ID AND k.FloInputFlow = m.ID OR k.FloOutputFlow = m.ID
16:52 < kanzure___> could probably stand to get rid of the last 'OR' unless I want to do an 'OR' near the mention of SubInputArtifact
20:06 < ybit> i send off for an interlibrary loan and this is what i get: http://filebin.ca/danpg
20:08 < ybit> wtf, right? right.
20:12 < ybit> i was expecting a higher resolution image and an actual paper, seems to be just the same info released on the net + a few references
20:15 < nsh> this is why you don't ask for information
20:15 < nsh> people are too stupid to fulfil simple requests
20:16 < splicer> it struck me one day that I could probably fit the text of all books in my citys library in my mobie phone. 
20:17 < splicer> (mobile)
20:19 < splicer> rrrreally looking forwards to an affordable, reasonably large and fast e-reader. 
20:21 < splicer> The day those can be bought for 100$... dead tree books and libraries die.
20:22 < splicer> (I give them 3-5 years to live)
21:24 < fenn> september 2008 and you get a black and white scan?
21:37 < nsh> haven't you been paying attention? it's october 2004 again today
21:37 < nsh> tommorow, i expect we'll be around november 2001
22:06 < ybit> nope, nsh, it's 2008. i suspect your clock is set to Alabama time
22:06 < ybit> clock/calendar
22:08 < nsh> unfortunately, i was using Dow Jones Industrial Average Time
22:18 < kanzure_> machine shop certification was just "how to not be stupid with a mill" and "how to not kill yourself with a lathe"
22:19 < kanzure_> of course, me being me, I accidentally killed a guy with a boring tool for the mill :/ oh well
22:19 < kanzure_> or something like that
22:23 < kanzure> MPML (the Minor Planet Mailing List 
22:23 < kanzure> at groups.yahoo.com/group/mpml/)
22:29 < kanzure> personally I'm kind of surprised about that neuron stuff from earlier today. just wire up a 555 timer or something. get the stimulation frequency up to a few thousand times a second and nobody cares how much voltage you're using.
22:30 < kanzure> so that sounds moderately doable if I can go find some pcb to etch into.
22:30 < kanzure> disregarding the actual neural tissue cultures of course.
22:33 < fenn> just get an arduino, you won't regret it
22:34 < kanzure_> I probably should have a stack of them anyway
23:37 < ybit> heh "  And even if you're literally the best in the world, there are still electron orbitals above yours - they're just unoccupied. "
23:42 < kanzure> Too true.
23:42 < kanzure> It is very, very hard to jump the islands of stability.
23:56 < kanzure_> ybit: Reminds me of http://heybryan.org/quotes.html#danger
23:58 < kanzure_> And if that percent fellow ever shows up again, the second following quote re: testosterone.