--- Day changed Sat Oct 11 2008 00:01 < kanzure_> oh god 00:01 < kanzure_> I'm going to hate myself for this 00:02 < kanzure_> but it occurs to me that branding openmanufacturing with a play on "MADE IN AMERICA" might be worth pursuing. 00:03 < kanzure_> "MADE WITH AMERICA" perhaps. 00:08 < kanzure_> not sure if this is just fear mongering by a wild man ranting, but evidently there's no vertical PCB manufacturer left in the US 00:08 < kanzure_> http://manufacturingnews.com/news/08/0930/DuBois.html 01:00 < drazak> you ought o be able to use the DMD buffers for electrophorisis and PCRs right? 01:00 < drazak> http://www.med.yale.edu/genetics/ward/tavi/p06.html 01:08 < fenn> what's a DMD buffer? 01:09 < fenn> am i reading this right? optimal dNTP concentration in the reaction = 6000 mM 01:09 < fenn> 6M is like, fuming acid 01:09 < fenn> fuming nucleic acid lol 01:11 < fenn> i'd just use the standard buffer 01:12 < drazak> the standard buffer doesn't have as good a resolution 01:13 < fenn> no, that gel is just overexposed or maybe they put too much PCR product in 01:14 < drazak> it looks like they were exposed the same 01:14 < drazak> and, from my photography knowledge 01:14 < drazak> that's not overexposure 01:14 < fenn> but the standard buffer has 1.6x as much in it 01:15 < fenn> anyway, _my_ gels never looked like that, and i never used a "DMD" buffer whatever that is 01:15 < drazak> mhm 01:15 < drazak> I might just use the standard one then 01:15 < drazak> It's cheaper 01:15 < drazak> and the parts are easier to find 01:15 < fenn> probably because it uses 30x less dNTP's 01:15 < drazak> s/parts/chemicals/ 01:16 < fenn> mercaptoethanol is stinky too 01:16 < drazak> aye 01:16 < drazak> it's hard to find 01:16 < fenn> i bet all lab chemicals are hard to find 01:17 < kanzure_> yep 01:17 < kanzure_> unless you have deep university pocket books 01:17 < fenn> drazak: what are you some kind of terrorist? making drugs? 01:17 * fenn pokes drazak aggresively 01:17 < drazak> fenn: not... really 01:17 < drazak> rofl 01:17 < kanzure_> fenn: you don't remember drazak? 01:17 < drazak> I'm into biochem 01:18 < fenn> its just the standard routine, americans cant fathom someone doing chemistry for any reason other than bombs or drugs (probably because that's all anyone makes in america any more) 01:18 < drazak> nah 01:18 < drazak> bombs are definitely not my style 01:18 < kanzure_> uh oh, I must not be in a good mood, I'm returning to procurement issues again. 01:19 < kanzure_> apparently Dow leechfeeds all of their chemicals from other manufacturers in a few cases 01:19 < kanzure_> their hydrocarbons come from bioreactor byproducts 01:19 < fenn> leechfeeds? 01:19 < kanzure_> leeches? 01:19 < kanzure_> but not really leeching since evidently they pay for these industrial byproducts 01:19 < fenn> if you can't use byproducts in other processes you have to dispose of them == $$$ 01:19 < kanzure_> I'm sure they have giant plants somewhere in europe or something 01:20 < kanzure_> I wonder if there's a mindat.org but for manufacturing and supply chains. 01:20 < fenn> alibaba? 01:20 < kanzure_> mindat is for minerals, how about something for the other layers of the ecosystem 01:20 < kanzure_> nah, that's an ebay thingy 01:20 < fenn> thomasnet? 01:20 < kanzure_> whatever happened to my thomasnet rip? 01:21 * kanzure_ wonders if it's still running 01:21 < fenn> i guarantee you won't find a giant flow diagram of all the materials and products in the world 01:21 < fenn> many companies work very hard to keep that info secret 01:22 < fenn> bleh.. resume resume 01:23 < drazak> kanzure_: oh hey, you mentioned that you had some other stufd about PCR and gel electrophorisis than what's in the old zip I grabbed, I haven't grabbed from get yet 01:26 < kanzure_> drazak: Few more moments. 01:27 < kanzure_> fenn: gah, I should have remembered how much I hate patrick 01:27 < kanzure_> "Dammit man! I'm not talking about information, I'm talking about physical reality!" - patrick on openmanufacturing 01:27 < kanzure_> as if physical reality wasn't information 01:27 < kanzure_> what the fuck is wrong with that guy? 01:27 < drazak> patrick who 01:27 < kanzure_> hell if I know 01:27 < kanzure_> Anderson 01:29 < fenn> omg web forms, when will i learn 01:29 < fenn> never write something in a web form you dont have backed up elsewhere 01:29 < kanzure_> resume? :/ 01:29 < fenn> ya 01:29 < kanzure_> "I sit around all day complaining about what yer doin' wrong with the internets" 01:30 < fenn> it never quite has the same ring when you write it the second time 01:30 < kanzure_> (or maybe that's me) 01:30 < fenn> where's my internet bitching award? 01:30 < kanzure_> you sir do not deserve the internet bitching award 01:30 < fenn> i need to put it on my resume! 01:30 < kanzure_> that's something you'd send if you were applying to replace Roland 01:30 < kanzure_> that's his name, right? xkcdguy 01:31 < fenn> meep? 01:31 < fenn> BOFH? 01:31 < kanzure_> ? 01:32 < fenn> go and acquaint thine self with the annals of our bastard operator from hell 01:38 < kanzure_> god I want to punch patrick 01:38 < kanzure_> it's like he assumes 'designs' are just bits and bytes 01:38 < kanzure_> in reality, good designs correlate map to territory 01:41 < fenn> STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD before you add a drop in the bucket of internet flamedom 01:42 < fenn> he has a point though, men with guns jealously guard 99% of the resources out there 01:42 < fenn> or something like that 01:43 * kanzure_ had to go down to get laundry 01:43 < fenn> i managed to regurgitate my resume, so it's all good 01:43 < bkero> fenn: 'eh? 01:43 < kanzure_> so, the thing I don't like about patrick's approach is that he's a secret front for futiity 01:43 < fenn> i really hate this stuff though, it feels like doing taxes 01:43 < kanzure_> "well, since we can't get anything, guess we just have to do this socially" 01:44 < bkero> xkcd guy is randal munroe 01:44 < fenn> "socially" != socialism 01:44 < kanzure_> or, rather, I should say that he's imposing his bullshit about money and economics on to something that doesn't need it 01:44 < drazak> xkcd guy is awesome 01:44 < kanzure_> fenn: I don't care if it != socialism 01:44 < drazak> :D 01:44 < fenn> i'm just sick of ranting about communism on that list 01:44 < fenn> and ranting about libertarianism on sifter, while i'm bitching 01:44 < kanzure_> I wasn't aware of rants about communism 01:44 < kanzure_> you're on sifter? 01:44 < fenn> i lurk 01:45 < kanzure_> did I point you to sifter? 01:45 < fenn> ya 01:45 < kanzure_> gee, I'm good 01:45 < fenn> heh i had name-drop you to get in :| 01:45 < kanzure_> funny. 01:46 < kanzure_> I would be wary of anywhere that doesn't let me in unless I had to mention my name 01:46 < fenn> yeah and i mentioned that 01:46 < fenn> half-seriously accusing them of being a secret cabal of masonists or whatever 01:47 < fenn> masonites? haha 01:47 < kanzure_> anyway, what I was going to reply to patrick with (until kmail crashed (nick of time?)), 01:47 < kanzure_> was that a good 'design' would reach all the way from me to the materials and back again 01:47 < kanzure_> that's a good design - he suggests that I say "we just eat CAD files" 01:47 < kanzure_> but he's missing the point of technology. 01:48 < fenn> of course you design for what you have 01:48 < fenn> his point is that we dont really have anything 01:48 < kanzure_> if he wants to install Capitalism 2.0 or his Socialism 2.0 (I don't know what he's pushing, but whatever it is, it's bullshit) 01:48 < kanzure_> then let him install that. 01:48 < kanzure_> well, of course we don't have anything, it's because people like him keep complaining about Those Damn Capitalists. 01:48 < kanzure_> classic Somebody Else's Problem Field. 01:49 < kanzure_> ok. maybe not so much of a classic example. 01:49 < drazak> :P 01:50 < kanzure_> Alright. I'm calming down. Don't care that much about these guys anyway .. they are not architects. 01:51 < drazak> not to be greedy or anything, but does that mean you can grab me those links now? 01:51 * kanzure_ glances at opera and sees BOFH open. 01:51 < kanzure_> Yes. 01:52 < kanzure> http://www.separationsnow.com/coi/cda/home.cda?chId=0 01:52 < kanzure> http://www.marinebiotech.org/gelelectro.html 01:52 < kanzure> http://www.scq.ubc.ca/the-macgyver-project-genomic-dna-extraction-and-gel-electrophoresis-experiments-using-everyday-materials/ 01:52 < kanzure> 01:52 < kanzure> http://www-saps.plantsci.cam.ac.uk/worksheets/scotland/dna.htm 01:52 < kanzure> http://www.scienceteacherprogram.org/biology/NLee05.html 03:26 < fenn> "it's not illegal to look for job applicants with high IQ, but if you actually ask an applicant their IQ, that fact can be used against you in a discrimination suit." is this for real? 03:26 < kanzure_> people ask iq? 03:27 < kanzure_> This is like a flashback to California. They were .. obsessed with their IQs. Trying to prove that they weren't doomed because of their IQ variables. 04:26 < gene> percent? 04:26 < gene> you there? 04:26 < gene> or whatever your nick is now? 04:28 < gene> you're right about HF 05:11 < bkero> Selling laptop 05:12 < gene> is opera more secure than firefox? 05:13 < bkero> Heh heh 05:14 < gene> I think my parents are hacking me 05:15 < bkero> lol 05:15 < bkero> hax'd 05:16 < gene> yeah 08:43 -!- nsh- is now known as nsh 12:46 < ybit> bkero: you're selling your new dell laptop so soon? 12:46 < ybit> "[05:11] Selling laptop" 15:31 < bkero> ybit: No, selling macbook 16:35 < ybit> ah 16:35 * ybit wants it 16:35 * ybit wants it 16:36 < ybit> or just an msi wind 16:36 < ybit> or asus eeepc 16:37 < ybit> weirdest thing, almost every house in the neighborhood is havng a yardsale, so it's like a flea-market outside 16:39 < ybit> speaking of, i now have an extra keyboard and 2 mice 16:40 < ybit> for free of course, i like to bargan *evil smile* 16:40 < ybit> damn the "i" on this keyboard 16:42 < fenn> damn your i's! 19:45 < kanzure_> woah 19:45 < kanzure_> Sudden outbreak of awesome by Jason on the diybio mailing list. 19:48 < ybit> [ kanzure_ ] are you referring to "Bio Bench project wiki request for comments and additions" 19:48 < ybit> there were a wealth of links presented 19:52 < kanzure_> yes 19:54 < kanzure_> for the record 19:55 < kanzure_> http://www.genocad.org/ which seems to be what we were thinking of 19:55 < kanzure_> http://pobol.org/ for RDF export of biobricks repository 19:55 < kanzure_> (with Google Group link and svn link) 19:55 < kanzure_> http://bricklet.org/ 19:56 < kanzure_> wonder if they have SBML compatability. 20:22 < kanzure_> Hey, I have an idea. 20:22 < ybit> pobol and bricklet are old, but i hadn't seen genocad and http://openwetware.org/wiki/Computational_Tools 20:23 < kanzure_> Abandoned mines. 20:23 < kanzure_> Abandoned mines are ridiculously safe when you don't use humans. 20:23 < kanzure_> Plus they serve as proof-of-concept. 20:28 < kanzure_> bkero: Was your tank try when you added your biofuel? 20:28 < kanzure_> *dry 20:33 < kanzure_> http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/mapdata/ 20:40 < kanzure_> It would be interesting to use biofuels to power a robotic army for automated abandoned mine mining tasks .. use the remaining left over materials for cargo-container delivery. 20:40 < kanzure_> (delivery to open source projects, no less) 20:42 < kanzure_> http://tin.er.usgs.gov/mrds/mrds.zip 30 MB of possibly interesting information. I have a few more minutes on the download until I get to peak. 20:44 < kanzure_> Yay I'm actually motivated to work on the bioreactor. 20:48 < willPow3r> kanzure_, what kind of bioreactor? 20:49 < willPow3r> photobioreactor? 20:49 < kanzure_> 10,000 gallon photobioreactor + an unknown lipid extraction methodology as of yet. 20:49 < kanzure_> Multi growth scheduling. 20:50 < willPow3r> neato 20:50 < willPow3r> unk lipid extraction method? what are you looking at? 20:50 * kanzure_ looks for his list. 20:52 < kanzure_> Acid/solvent extraction, sonification, high pressure lysing, electromechanical pressure, supercritical method w/ flogas, microwave, enzymatic lyses, liquid nitrogen. 20:52 < willPow3r> those tend to be rather limited in their efficacy 20:52 < kanzure_> I haven't ran the numbers yet. 20:52 < kanzure_> Anything I should add to the list? 20:54 < willPow3r> i went to a lecture here @ UCSD on the subject of growing algae (biomass) in a photobioreactor for conversion to biofuel 20:55 < willPow3r> and the topic of lipid extraction was talked about 20:55 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Bioreactors 20:55 < willPow3r> trying to find the link 20:55 < kanzure_> Really lipid extraction is the big issue. 20:55 < kanzure_> photobioreactors, meh; algae *will* grow 20:55 < kanzure_> (yes, though, getting awesome growth is always, well, awesome) 20:55 < willPow3r> right 20:55 < kanzure_> But these things are built for growth. ;-) 20:56 < willPow3r> Brian Gregory Mitchell 20:58 < kanzure_> "numerical modeling of yield optimization" yep 20:58 < kanzure_> Sounds like my kind of guy. 20:58 < kanzure_> Scripps Photobiology Group 20:59 < willPow3r> you should ask him out on a date 20:59 < willPow3r> get a couple drinks in him 20:59 < kanzure_> http://spg.ucsd.edu/People/Greg/BGM_Publications.htm 20:59 < kanzure_> "absorption cross section" <-- Probably falls off with the square of distance. 20:59 < willPow3r> yea, i was just looking @ that 21:00 < kanzure_> That's an interesting way to model it. But. Lipid extraction modeling is more important at this point. 21:00 < kanzure_> Part of the problem is that the algae we have been cultivating have this nasty hard membrane. 21:01 < willPow3r> and breaking down that membrane requires lots of energy 21:01 < willPow3r> so its similar to the hydrogen fuel cell problem 21:02 < kanzure_> Gah, it's been a while since I've remembered what the hydrogen fuel cell problem is. I seem to recall it was something about efficient storage. 21:13 < willPow3r> what percentage of fuel extraction is possible using current top manufacturing techniques? 21:15 < kanzure_> Refinery efficiencies? 21:16 < kanzure_> Usually you don't care much about that since your energy input is zilch .. it's all stored petrochemicals from a bajillion years ago. 21:16 < kanzure_> Although I'm sure they do care anyway. 21:21 < fenn> thermal depolymerization 21:28 < ybit> i like this article: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Free_education_and_free_school%3F 21:29 < ybit> http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Category:Wikiversity as well 21:31 < ybit> wrong channel 21:31 < kanzure_> yay I'm so happy 21:32 < ybit> what happened? 21:32 < kanzure_> http://fedoraforum.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-185682.html algOS - oil from algae, open source 21:32 < ybit> ooooh 21:33 < kanzure_> Narsi Santhanam narsi@esource.in 21:33 < kanzure_> fuck 21:33 < willPow3r> i've seen this before 21:33 < kanzure_> They have nothing 21:34 < kanzure_> Screw this shit. I could write a simulator faster than it'd take Narsi to reply .. 21:34 < kanzure_> .. or the microcontroller code for operating a reactor. 21:35 < ybit> "Since they are not part of the human food chain at present, ..." oi, i eat spirulina 21:35 < kanzure_> So I'm still not finding much in the way of studies of lipid extraction techniques from algae. 21:35 < kanzure_> One source is suggesting electromagnetic extraction. 21:36 < kanzure_> which I guess is my 'microwave' that I listed above 21:36 < kanzure_> (electromagnetic extraction got me curious because of the link on the page to algOS) 22:05 < willPow3r> http://www.ucsd.tv/search-details.asp?showID=14378 22:12 < kanzure_> Dj Polarny - Sylwek Dp Megamix 2004 isn't terrible. 22:18 < kanzure_> Hrm. Narsi is an interesting fellow. 22:18 < kanzure_> http://esource.in/ 22:26 < willPow3r> i hate ice cream trucks. 22:30 < drazak> kanzure_: those links were mostly all just gelling, not really PCR 22:33 < kanzure_> One moment. 22:34 < kanzure_> New batch of links. 22:35 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/pcr.txt 22:35 < kanzure_> The sciam link would be a good start. 22:35 < drazak> right, I have that printed out 22:35 < kanzure_> dkjflajkd;fjkasdf 22:36 < drazak> the sciam link 22:36 < drazak> that is 22:36 < kanzure_> I don't know if it ha s content, but the how-2-diy link claims to have videos 22:37 < kanzure_> You should be able to buy a cheap thermocycler if you really need it, something using the Pierett process; the reagents are an unsolved mystery as far as I know. Are you needing links to commercial suppliers? 22:38 < kanzure_> They usually come in 'kits'. 22:38 < kanzure_> (I know this because labmates fight over the kits all the time. :-)) 22:39 < drazak> lol 22:39 < drazak> well 22:39 < drazak> I'm going to make my own buffer 22:39 < drazak> but yeah, some links to commercial suppliers would be nice 22:39 < drazak> there's a link to making a thermoscycler, which I had planned to do to start 22:39 < drazak> :D 22:40 < kanzure_> I'll ask my bio buddies for their favorite kits. 22:40 < kanzure_> This would be a good question to pose to the diybio.org mailing list though. "Hi, give me teh kits." 22:41 < drazak> lol 22:44 < kanzure_> willPow3r, fenn - for lipid extraction, what about killing the algae via having 'dead tanks'? Remove all nutrients, remove all light sources, let it sit for some amount of time. Once it's all dead biomass, apply low-scale extraction process - sonification, acid-solvent extraction, then typical transesterification techniques to get to the goods. 22:44 < kanzure_> Hard to select for algae that dies quickly, though. 22:48 < willPow3r> the problem is breaking down cellulose at a high rate 22:48 < willPow3r> dead algae doesn't make that process any easier 22:51 < willPow3r> not only that, some algae actually excrete the desired products 22:51 < kanzure_> Not this stuff. But names? 22:53 < kanzure_> Huh. Google search very lucrative. 22:54 < willPow3r> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botryococcus_braunii 22:55 < kanzure_> Largest algae collection in the world right here on campus, and with full access. 22:57 < kanzure_> wtf, I started pidgin 30 minutes ago 22:57 < drazak> I think I have 83 tabs in firefox 22:58 < kanzure_> Firefox will crash soon :) 22:58 < kanzure_> bkero was doing 180 22:58 < kanzure_> I keep trying to tell him that opera does 300 no sweat. 22:58 < drazak> nah 22:58 < drazak> my laptop has 2 gig of memory 22:58 < willPow3r> i've lost too much information by having that many tabs 22:58 < kanzure_> I wish that mattered. 22:58 < kanzure_> willPow3r: crashes? 22:58 < willPow3r> yep 22:58 < kanzure_> yay session restore hacked into autosave 22:59 < kanzure_> (you don't want it to restore, just to autosave) 22:59 < willPow3r> like when my gf watches the hills 22:59 < kanzure_> ((why repeat what fucked you up?) 22:59 < kanzure_> ) 22:59 < willPow3r> and inevitably does not reopen last session 23:01 < willPow3r> craig venter is amazingly boring 23:01 < kanzure_> news? 23:01 * kanzure_ has a venter number of 2. in terms of faces. 23:01 < willPow3r> watching a lecture he gave on genomic advances 23:02 < kanzure_> ah 23:02 < kanzure_> date? 23:02 < willPow3r> 5/7/08 23:02 < kanzure_> And it's boring? 23:02 < willPow3r> i ran out of adhd meds 23:02 < willPow3r> so i'm relying on no-doz alone 23:06 < willPow3r> glue coas 23:09 < willPow3r> i guess hes not that boring. 23:10 < kanzure_> Botryococcus doesn't grow all that quickly. I'm looking around to see if its hydrocarbon secretion complexes have been sequenced. 23:11 < willPow3r> thats what she said 23:15 < kanzure_> I can't imagine hydrocarbon secretion to be efficient for rapidly replicating critters. 23:16 < kanzure_> I can't imagine hydrocarbon secretion to be efficient for rapidly replicating critters. 23:17 < willPow3r> then alter genetic sequence for thin cell wall 23:18 < kanzure_> Ideally the amount of genetic modification should be minimized. 23:18 < kanzure> " Thiruvananthapuram (IANS): Weather permitting, Chandrayaan 1, India's first mission to the moon, will lift off from the Satish Dhawan Space Centre at Sriharikota in Andhra Pradesh Oct 22, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO)" 23:21 < fenn> pffffff BUY A THERMOCYCLER??!!!! 23:22 < kanzure> Such magic! the heat, but then the cold! 23:22 < willPow3r> sounds like something billy mays could handle 23:23 < kanzure> I very much want to go to Odessa, Florida so that I can go into _his_ home and yell at Billy Mays to buy my products. 23:23 < fenn> who is this person that breaks into your house to harass you? 23:24 < willPow3r> that would be one of the most amazing acts every 23:24 < kanzure> fenn: television. it's another realm. ignore. 23:24 < fenn> oh i havent seen one of those in years 23:25 < willPow3r> s/y/ / 23:25 < fenn> do they still make them? 23:25 < kanzure> billy mays? nah 23:25 < kanzure> discontinued. 23:27 < fenn> i think it would be neat to have a tag cloud of statistically improbable phrases being automatically generated from an irc chat 23:28 < kanzure_> It would be neat in general to have the backend machinery for Amazon's "statistically improbable phrases" in general .. 23:28 < fenn> then it could scroll by on a big LED sign 23:28 < kanzure_> ? 23:28 < kanzure_> such as? 23:28 < willPow3r> spam email subjects represent a similar phenomenon 23:28 < fenn> the red dot matrix character array 23:28 < kanzure_> fenn: no, what sort of crap are you expecting to see scroll by ? 23:29 < fenn> the phrases 23:29 < kanzure_> to be honest, irc has a lot of statistic improbabilities 23:29 < kanzure_> like any of the guys getting women. 23:29 < fenn> snap 23:29 < willPow3r> not in the field of metabolic engineering 23:29 < kanzure_> Hrm? 23:29 < ybit> http://www.hubmed.org/ 23:30 < kanzure_> http://pubget.org/ 23:30 < kanzure_> hrm 23:30 < fenn> http://nubged.org/ 23:30 < kanzure_> http://pubget.com/ and http://pubget.org/mobile 23:30 < ybit> ooh 23:30 * ybit likey 23:30 < kanzure_> You're welcome. 23:31 < ybit> hai, arigatou 23:31 < kanzure_> que? 23:31 < ybit> si, gracias 23:31 < kanzure_> robot? 23:31 < willPow3r> no worky 23:31 < kanzure_> willPow3r: try the .com 23:31 < willPow3r> beautiful. 23:32 < kanzure_> http://pubmedcentral.gov/ is beautiful in general. 23:32 < drazak> kanzure_: did you ever say the links to some commercial suppliers? 23:32 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/projects/autoscholar/ has had a link to pubget for a few months now, ybit 23:32 < kanzure_> drazak: Friends have not replied yet. 23:32 < drazak> what about for general stuff? 23:33 < kanzure> invitrogen, carolina biologic supply, IDT, 23:34 < kanzure> oh wait, I think there's a list in the git repo 23:34 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/gitweb.cgi?p=biotech.git;a=tree 23:34 < kanzure> 'Good list of vendors.html" 23:34 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/gitweb.cgi?p=biotech.git;a=blob;f=Good%20list%20of%20vendors.html;h=52558e4de48302b9e13f70491c9aaabaaad1320a;hb=HEAD 23:35 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/gitweb.cgi?p=biotech.git;a=blob_plain;f=Good%20list%20of%20vendors.html;hb=HEAD 23:35 < kanzure> Blah, nevermind. 23:35 < kanzure> Oh wait. Yep. Vendors. 23:37 < kanzure> BioSupplyNet - 2700 biotech companies, Ambion, Amersham Pharmacia Biotech, Beckman Coulter, Beckman Coulter Liquid Handlers (Biomek/Multimek), Bio-Rad, Brinkman Instruments, Corning Labware & Equipment, Epicentre, Fisher, Gelman, Glen Research, ICN, IDT (Integrated DNA Technologies), Invitrogen, Kimble Kontes, Life Technologies (GIBCO BRL), MidWest, MJ Research, Molecular Dynamics, Nalge Nunc, NEB, Operon, Perkin Elmer, PerSeptive Biosystems, Pierce, 23:37 < kanzure> Operon, Promega, Qiagen, Shimadzu, Sigma Aldrich, Stratagene, VWR 23:37 < kanzure_> I remember we were using Ambion kits. 23:39 < drazak> cool 23:39 < fenn> between sigma aldrich and invitrogen you can get just about everything 23:39 < fenn> perkin elmer has equipment but you cant afford it 23:39 < kanzure> funny, that's what sigma aldrich's asking price is 23:39 < kanzure> (everything) 23:40 < fenn> i figured they were just all unreasonably expensive 23:41 < kanzure> actually, I take that back, I'm glad sigma aldrich at least posts their prices on their site 23:42 < drazak> kanzure_: where can I get primers and such? 23:43 < kanzure> You can order them commercially, or you could order a sequence to be synthesized by our friends at http://e-oligos.com/ for $0.35/bp 23:44 < drazak> bp or kp? 23:44 < kanzure> http://www.primerfox.com/ <-- tool for primer generation 23:44 < kanzure> basepair. 23:44 < kanzure> yeah .. 23:44 < drazak> because I saw a place doing it for like 45c/kbp 23:44 < kanzure> djkfal;kfjklda;jfal 23:44 < kanzure> linkage? 23:44 < drazak> hold on 23:44 < kanzure> I've heard of Korean labs doing it dirt cheap 23:45 < drazak> http://www.mrgene.com 23:47 < kanzure> Awesome. Thanks. 23:47 < drazak> for up to 3kbp 23:50 < kanzure_> http://mrgene.com/synbio looks like they're at the hong kong conference 23:51 < fenn> it just says 49 cents up to 3kb 23:51 < kanzure_> http://genscript.com/ does $0.55/bp .. 23:52 < kanzure_> up to 50kbp. yay. 23:52 < fenn> what's the error rate? 23:53 < kanzure_> they guarantee 100% match... hrm. 23:53 < fenn> how the heck do they make a 50kbp sequence? 23:53 < kanzure_> hrm 23:54 < fenn> For non-complex gene sequences up to 3 kb, we offer discount rates of as low as $0.55/bp (EUR0.40/bp). 23:54 < kanzure_> ah, only $0.55/bp for up to 3 kbp 23:54 < kanzure_> heh 23:55 < fenn> is there a wikipedia page with this info? 23:55 < kanzure> http://www.biocompare.com/matrix/124/Gene-Synthesis.html 23:56 < fenn> GET QUOTE GET QUOTE GET QUOTE GET QUOTE 23:57 < fenn> someone please fire the person who came up with that 23:57 < willPow3r> i thought you just came up w/ it 23:57 < kanzure_> willPow3r: check the link .. 23:57 < kanzure_> or don't 23:57 < kanzure_> it's useless. 23:58 < willPow3r> indeed it is