--- Day changed Sun Oct 12 2008
00:00 < drazak> I wonder how hard it is to synthesize my own
00:01 < kanzure_> Yay
00:01 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/DNA_synthesizer
00:01 < kanzure_> Check the oligonucleotide synthesis instructions.
00:01 < drazak> oh hey
00:01 < willPow3r> i synthesized one with your mom last night
00:01 < drazak> I think I'm going to build my own thermocycler
00:01 < kanzure_> How exactly?
00:01 < kanzure_> I've never understood the rapid cooling mechanisms.
00:02 < drazak> welll
00:02 < kanzure_> Was this some sort of thermal piezo material ?
00:02 < kanzure_> voltage=>rapid cool down methodology?
00:03 < drazak> what I was thinking is instead of using convectiona and radtiation, I'd have a small water heater, and 2 servos to open the gates for a drain and for cooling
00:05 < kanzure_> And what would the physical flow setup look like? a tube sitting next to a pvc pipe with the water flow, or you manually moving the tube from hot to cold water bins?
00:05 < drazak> and put the reagents+thermometer in a mostly covered whatchamacallit (the small plastic 'test tubes' for centrifuges)
00:05 < drazak> no no
00:05 < drazak> no manual moving
00:05 < drazak> I want to be able to walk away
00:05 < drazak> ok, so I have a bin of water
00:05 < drazak> and the ends of the tubes sticking in, the bin of water has an in tube and an out tube, and also a heater
00:06 < kanzure_> What sort of gate do you plan on using? I suppose you could use a metal plate attached to a sturdy pin that rotates like a rotating door. 
00:07  * kanzure_ is assuming noncontinuous flow, which probably isn't a good idea.
00:07 < drazak> the heater brings the tubes up the the first temperature, for denaturation, then to cool it, both servos flip, opening the water gates, water flows in until the thermometer hits the temperature for annealing
00:08 < drazak> timer times, heater comes on for extension temperature, and then repeat 30-40 times
00:08 < drazak> the whole process
00:08 < drazak> then it goes to final extension and hold
00:08 < drazak> and we're done
00:11 < drazak> hook it up to either a computer or a programed atmel chip to execute the program
00:11 < kanzure_> I suppose what you really need to do is confirm that the temperatures you hit will do what you think it's doing.
00:12 < drazak> nah
00:12 < drazak> it's well documented
00:12 < drazak> the temperatures, that is
00:12 < drazak> there's a few things that change
00:12 < drazak> but that's simple to change
00:12 < kanzure_> No, I mean your system.
00:12 < drazak> oh
00:12 < kanzure_> confirmation of functionality and such.
00:12 < drazak> yeah
00:12 < drazak> which is why you have a therister in one of the tubes, measuring the temperature of the reagents
00:13 < drazak> so that you can ignore specific heat
00:15 < kanzure_> fenn: How does the AA heat the water in the $10 thermocycler? 
00:15 < drazak> hm
00:15 < drazak> you know
00:16 < drazak> it would be simpler to simple turn on 2 water pumps
00:16 < drazak> than fuck with servos
00:16 < drazak> you can get cheap water pumps for like $2-5 each
00:16 < kanzure_> is that so?
00:16 < drazak> yeah
00:16 < drazak> really small ones
00:16 < drazak> but you don't need very big
00:16 < kanzure_> if you can price out a system for less than $10, I can hook you up with a manufacturing deal
00:16 < drazak> well
00:17 < drazak> it's going to be ~15
00:17 < drazak> off the top of my head
00:17  * kanzure_ waves hand in crude attempt at Jedi mind trick, "You want to price it out for under $10."
00:17 < drazak> you could do it with cheap paint trays
00:17 < drazak> yeah yeah
00:17 < kanzure_> right
00:17 < drazak> I'm just thinking of how to do it cheaper
00:17 < drazak> so you need 3 paint trays
00:18 < drazak> so there's like 3-4 bucks
00:18 < drazak> I guess you could do it with one water pump
00:18 < drazak> so call it 2 bucks
00:18 < drazak> the water heaters the only expensive thing
00:18 < drazak> I was thinking one for fish tanks
00:18 < drazak> which is like 10-15
00:19 < kanzure_> what's so special about this heater?
00:19 < drazak> dunno
00:19 < drazak> thinking about that more
00:19 < drazak> that's a bad idea
00:19 < drazak> because you'd have to rewire it so that it goes hotter
00:27 < kanzure_> Hrm. I used to blow shit up all the time when soldering. Stuff would heat up without warning.
00:27 < kanzure_> Find a high emissivity resistor to wire up to a battery, hook that into a slightly larger test tube and submerge the other tube within that one as well.
00:28 < kanzure_> Water is still good, though maybe not the water heater ;-)
00:32 < drazak> heh, I know how to solder rather well
00:32 < drazak> I design and build my own headphone amps
00:35 < kanzure> It's not a matter of soldering well :-) but rather doing dangerous things with what you're soldering.
00:35 < drazak> nahh
00:35 < drazak> not if you hit it fast
00:35 < drazak> there's a technique behind soldering stuff like that
00:36 < kanzure> No, it's not the soldering that does the Dangerous Thing, it's what you're soldering together that blows up when you turn it on or whatever.
00:36 < drazak> oh, that
00:36 < drazak> :P
00:36 < drazak> thanks knowing electronics
00:36 < drazak> :D
00:36 < kanzure> Hrm?
00:37 < drazak> anyway
00:37 < drazak> it looks like the cheapest water pump online is like 10$
00:37 < drazak> I swear I bought some for like 3 or 4 though
00:39 < fenn> the idaho thermocycler i used the crap out of was just a fan and a lightbulb (and a microcontroller)
00:39 < drazak> hm
00:39 < fenn> it's the fastest design, because instead of microcentrifuge tubes you use glass capillary tubing, so it has a large surface area to volume ratio
00:40 < drazak> well
00:40 < drazak> water+water heater is faster
00:40 < drazak> get a heater and turn up the power, and you'll be doing good
00:40 < fenn> i think you're wrong about that
00:41 < fenn> water heats by conduction, whereas a lightbulb can heat by IR radiation
00:41 < fenn> the pcr mix had a blue dye in it, which might have absorbed IR but i think it was just so you could see what you're doing
00:42 < drazak> yeah
00:42 < drazak> the blue dye is actually to help with the gel
00:42 < drazak> because it's nto a dye at all
00:43 < drazak> it's bromophenol blue
00:43 < drazak> which is a loading buffer
00:44 < drazak> basically when you're doing the gelling, it moves at the same speed as the dna so that you can see when it's done
00:44 < fenn> btw domestic water heaters have this valve that prevents it from getting hot enough for pcr
00:45 < drazak> oh, that's not the type of heater I was talking about
00:45 < fenn> ok
00:45 < drazak> I meant like a fishtank heater
00:46 < fenn> i like the lightbulb+fan idea
00:46 < fenn> twenty seconds on, twenty off, vroom vroom vroom
00:47 < drazak> eh
00:47 < drazak> I guess
00:47 < drazak> I'd use one of those special bulbs though
00:47 < drazak> or like a 100W bulb
00:47 < fenn> 100W is special?
00:47 < drazak> or
00:47 < drazak> :D
00:48 < drazak> but they make special bulbs for heating stuff
00:48 < fenn> oh, sure
00:48 < fenn> you can get 130V "commercial service" bulbs too, which glow a little dimmer
00:48 < fenn> more IR in the spectrum
00:48 < fenn> not that it matters i guess, since all the light gets converted to heat eventually
00:52 < drazak> what microprocessor?
00:52 < drazak> I can't think of any you can buy for that cheap
00:54 < kanzure> PICs are ridiculously cheap
00:54 < drazak> are they?
00:54 < kanzure> buck fifty?
00:54 < drazak> I don't like the PICs as much as the atmel ones
00:54 < drazak> avr's
00:54 < kanzure> well sure .. but those are going to cost more.
00:55  * drazak opens his tin of parts
00:55 < drazak> hmm
00:56 < drazak> I see like 5 or 6 avrs
00:56 < kanzure> screw it
00:56 < kanzure> just hook it up to LTP
00:56 < drazak> yeah
00:56 < drazak> I was thinking about that
00:56 < kanzure_> or RS232
00:56 < kanzure> or RS232.
00:56 < kanzure_> shut up.
00:56 < drazak> I can't program though, so regardless, someone else is going to have to help me write the program
00:56 < drazak> :P
00:57 < kanzure_> Highly dependent on how friendly your inputs are to the machine. Does the thermometer have a clear protocol for spitting back the current temperature? etc.
00:58 < drazak> if you use a thermistor
00:58 < kanzure_> if it's wired to an LCD, then the answer is yes, and just remove the LCD and wire it into your boxen
00:58 < drazak> you can just use an a/d converter
00:58 < kanzure_> ?
00:58 < kanzure_> analog to digital converter on /what/ ?
00:58 < drazak> a thermistor
00:58 < kanzure_> How does this work?
00:58 < kanzure_> surely you don't mean an analog read out to digital ?
00:59 < drazak> a thermistor is basically a resistor that changes resistance based on temperature
00:59 < kanzure_> oh. nevermind.
00:59 < drazak> :P
01:13 < kanzure_> Somebody's sending me storage for a few dumps of my collections.
01:14 < kanzure_> I'm planning on first sending it somewhere else. Who wants?
01:15 < drazak> your music? no thanks
01:15 < kanzure_> It's not music.
01:16 < kanzure_> I'm fairly confident that I have a highly desirable collection over here.
01:16 < drazak> porno?
01:16 < kanzure_> nature
01:16 < drazak> oh :P
01:55 < fenn> atmel AVR's are $0.50-$15
01:55 < fenn> last time i looked at least
01:56 < fenn> the $2 ones will do just about anything you can ask of a microcontroller
01:57 < fenn> PIC gets a reputation for being cheap because their company will send free samples to anybody no questions asked
01:58 < fenn> how big is nature?
01:58 < kanzure_> 40 GB but it seems I'm missing some things. For instance, I didn't have that Raman paper.
01:58 < fenn> ookina yu-ni-va-su
01:58 < kanzure_> ?
01:59 < drazak> kanzure_: what's in nature?
01:59 < kanzure_> the majority of nature
02:00 < kanzure_> I have an 8 MB index if you want to see it
02:00 < drazak> do you have any sort of access to published papers/whatnot?
02:00 < drazak> that I could use
02:00 < kanzure_> ha ha ha
02:00 < kanzure_> yessir
02:01 < drazak> :D
02:01 < drazak> that'd be awesome
02:01 < fenn> will probably hate this: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/coppe_8_monologue.mp3
02:01  * kanzure_ has been listening to Carlos Santana - Europa for the past I don't know how long
02:02 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/papersdir_list.txt warning, this is about 8 MB.
02:02 < drazak> how big is the directory with the actual papers?
02:03 < fenn> how many papers?
02:03 < kanzure_> 122,000 papers
02:03 < kanzure_> checking with du -h.
02:04 < drazak> kanzure_: du -ckhs is more efficient, fyi
02:04 < kanzure_> hm. Maybe I meant to upload full_index.txt
02:05 < fenn> du -k and du -h cancel, -k wins?
02:05 < fenn> and -c -s doesnt make sense either
02:05 < drazak> uh
02:06 < drazak> fenn: k doesn't do what you think it does
02:06 < drazak> :D
02:06 < fenn> k reports number of 1k blocks
02:06 < fenn> which screws up -h
02:06 < drazak> wrong!
02:06 < drazak> well
02:06 < drazak> right
02:06 < fenn> enlighten me then, O master of vudu
02:06 < drazak> but h takes preference
02:06 < drazak> hm
02:06 < drazak> using an outdated command
02:07 < fenn> du -chks
02:07 < fenn> 9828    .
02:07 < fenn> 9828    total
02:07 < drazak> that's how you'd do it for coreutils like 9 versions ago
02:07 < drazak> lulz
02:07 < drazak> not on my system
02:07 < drazak> drazak@localhost ~/My Music/NIN $ du -ckhs
02:07 < drazak> 2.2G    .
02:07 < drazak> 2.2G    total
02:07 < kanzure_> 130+ GB of music if that counts. Still running.
02:08 < drazak> regardless though, if you want to know how big a directory is, du -ckhs is better, it doesn't print/try to print to standard out if you have a whole bunch of papers
02:11 < kanzure_> Still going.
02:11 < kanzure_> It's not listing files yet either.
02:12 < kanzure_> Had I been smarter I would have preserved some directory structure to the rip.
02:13 < fenn> like volume, issue?
02:13 < kanzure_> yes
02:13 < fenn> what are the filenames like?
02:14 < kanzure_> title of the paper
02:14 < drazak> kanzure_: I was hoping some sort of university login or something
02:15 < kanzure_> drazak: You want me to give you logins? Sorry, I don't do ezproxy trading rings any more .. I tried to trace them to the source once, but that failed.
02:15 < drazak> not what I meant
02:15 < fenn> "00 million pledged to support ex-Soviet science" how generous
02:15 < drazak> but ok!
02:17 < fenn> there's gotta be some way to "slice" huge datasets into different file systems without duplicating the data
02:17 < kanzure_> 'file systems', split 40 GB into ext2 and ext3 ?
02:18 < fenn> i mean so you can have a big dir full of every paper, and also sorted by volume/issue, and also by field or whatever
02:18 < fenn> and not have to use some crappy SQL server to do it
02:18 < kanzure_> something better than virtual links?
02:18 < fenn> links would work i guess
02:19 < drazak> kanzure_: why would you split it into ext2 and 3?
02:19 < drazak> the only difference is journaling
02:19 < kanzure_> trying to understand fenn.
02:19 < drazak> and ext3 generalyl speaking gives better performance
02:19 < kanzure_> he said 'file system'
02:19 < kanzure_> so I thought 'file systems'.
02:19 < drazak> oh :P
02:19 < fenn> i meant directory structure
02:19 < fenn> i was thinking "
02:19 < fenn> proc filesystem
02:20 < drazak> lol
02:20 < fenn> why is that funny?
02:20 < fenn> nevermind, trying to explain why something is funny is an exercise in futility
02:23 < drazak> aye
02:25 < fenn> kurzweil has this music generator program that responds to biofeedback
02:25 < fenn> it would be neat to do that with a chatroom
02:25 < kanzure_> streaming audio server?
02:26 < fenn> often i want to beam music phrases at people but 1) english sucks at that and 2) you'd disrupt whatever the other person was listening to or just the mood in their head
02:26 < kanzure_> recently I was thinking of a program that would generate european dance music mixes
02:26 < kanzure_> it's fairly algorithmic to get a beat going, plus plays on samples taken from a library of various snippits of classic songs
02:26 < fenn> as much as i like euro trance i think that's an awful idea
02:26 < kanzure_> heh
02:27 < fenn> sort of like a markov bot, but with music
02:27 < kanzure_> sir, are you saying I'm a bad idea?
02:27 < fenn> it's entertaining for about ten minutes
02:27 < kanzure_> people have called me a markov bot before.
02:27 < kanzure_> aw.
02:27 < fenn> nothing personal :)
02:27 < fenn> its just sometimes you show an extreme lack of physical groundedness
02:28 < fenn> like the recent discussion on openmanufacturing
02:28 < drazak> aye
02:28 < kanzure_> arguably I'm more grounded
02:28 < drazak> wellll
02:28 < kanzure_> note how I've been talking about interfacing with B2B for the material procurement issues
02:28 < drazak> as much as it's ac ool idea, I think that most of the hplus research can't be done in an opensource enviroment
02:28 < kanzure_> you get your direct realization of materials from bits and bytes, what's not to love about that ?
02:29 < drazak> nto easily, atleast
02:29 < kanzure_> drazak: eh?
02:29 < fenn> i think he was talking about more of an autonomous ground-up scheme
02:29 < kanzure_> explain?
02:29 < kanzure_> fenn: patrick?
02:29 < fenn> rather than trying to interface with businesses etc, just make what you need to spec
02:29 < fenn> yeah
02:29 < kanzure_> fenn: I don't know why he doesn't call that a design.
02:29 < drazak> kanzure_: well, most of the research takes a lot of money to do it 'right'
02:29 < kanzure_> "it's not a design! it's reality! rawr"
02:29 < drazak> and if we're not going to do it right, we may as well not do it at all
02:30 < kanzure_> drazak: Do what, now?
02:30 < fenn> because his vision is exceedingly low-tech and based on tested designs mostly, and he has no idea how to actually implement it (business plan stuff)
02:30 < fenn> it's easy to come up with a business plan when you have a technological advantage, but not so easy when you're digging in the dirt like a medieval subsistence farmer
02:30 < drazak> kanzure_: research bioengineering of the human race in a way that could be applied large scale
02:31 < kanzure_> is that your understanding of what we've been talking about, drazak?
02:31 < fenn> and so i'm sort of amazed my friend just got a $100k loan to dig in the dirt in bumfuck pennsylvania
02:31 < drazak> kanzure_: well, there's more to it
02:31 < kanzure_> fenn:  building a house?
02:31 < fenn> farming
02:31 < drazak> but imo to do the research, you may as well do it right, and I'm all for finding out a way to come up with a low cost solution
02:32 < kanzure_> solution to what?
02:32 < drazak> solution to research tools
02:32 < kanzure_> You're being vague :-)
02:32 < drazak> aye
02:32 < fenn> 'solution to research tools' wtf does that mean
02:33 < fenn> like "how to do PCR without paying invitrogen $50/pop"?
02:33 < kanzure_> fenn: but he was talking about overall goals and projects,
02:33 < kanzure_> so I'm wondering what he thinks those are
02:33 < drazak> solution to lack of research tools/supplies
02:33 < kanzure_> human race engineering or whatever seems like a peculiar answer
02:33 < kanzure_> it's not a wrong answer, just something I wanted to poke at
02:34 < drazak> it's part of the impression I got from the biohack site
02:34 < fenn> in the history of science, there was no supplier that magically created analytical tools out of thin air
02:34 < fenn> people had to come up with their own designs and build them with what they had
02:35 < fenn> now we just have a big patent snarl
02:35 < drazak> fenn: aye, but most of the tools needed for research in molecular biology and whatnot have already been made
02:35 < drazak> they're just expensive
02:35 < fenn> time to move to guptastan I say
02:35 < kanzure_> drazak: yes, a big part of Things in general is bootstrapping tools.
02:38 < fenn> i find it odd that smari is whining about people bringing in unidentified plastic, but nobody is working on fablab-DIY chemical analysis tools
02:38 < fenn> what the heck do they make in these fablabs if not better fablab tools?
02:38 < kanzure_> in the cities and the US, I don't know
02:39 < kanzure_> but supposedly Gershenfeld has these in third world countries
02:39 < drazak> kanzure_: I get the impression that transhumanism is about making humans and therefor humanity better
02:39 < kanzure_> and theoretically they're making 'useful stuff' ?
02:39 < fenn> useful stuff is like, radio transponders for sheep, or milk dilution testers
02:39 < kanzure_> drazak: btw, you can ignore the title of the channel. that's leftovers because everybody keeps showing up here. 
02:39 < kanzure_> drazak: but yes, that'd be nice.
02:40 < fenn> gershenfeld goes on and on about "the analytical divide" but its in his own labs if you ask me
02:40 < drazak> then what is the general goal of the channel
02:40 < fenn> the same goal of every channel
02:40 < fenn> ... to try and take over the world!
02:41 < fenn> it's true, dont try to deny it
02:41 < willPow3r_> dan dennett is so jittery when he speaks
02:41 < willPow3r_> its hard to follow what he says sometimes
02:42 < kanzure_> It would be interesting but pointless to say the goal is improvement. 
02:42 < drazak> aye
02:42 < kanzure_> I'm not sure we can prescribe a goal
02:44 < fenn> based on the channel name i think the idea is to come up with a way to get to various types of improved states of being
02:44 < fenn> way/ways
02:44 < fenn> for instance, i want to see in radio to x-ray spectrum
02:45 < drazak> no thanks
02:45 < fenn> so that's part of why i'm obsessed with wearables
02:45 < kanzure_> I'm not sure if we can go by the channel name any more. 
02:45 < fenn> kanzure_: too "mission oriented" for you?
02:46 < fenn> at least we arent talking about taxes or communism
02:46 < drazak> I'm trying to come up with a goal for my own research
02:46 < drazak> that's acheivable in ~6 months
02:46 < fenn> come up with a goal that's not achievable in 6 months
02:47 < fenn> then try to do something related
02:47 < fenn> you might even get tenure if you repeat that enough times
02:47 < drazak> heh
02:47  * fenn sulks
02:47 < drazak> you do know I'm 15, yeah?
02:47 < drazak> s/15/16
02:47 < kanzure_> too old.
02:47 < fenn> don't pigeonhole yourself
02:48 < fenn> the only reason young people don't play a more active role in society is they get sent to sensory-deprivation prisons for 15 years
02:48 < drazak> fenn: this is why I'm trying to teach myself a whole bunch of stuff :)
02:48 < drazak> I worked my way through ochem 1 and 2 recently
02:48 < drazak> learning biochemistry atm
02:49 < kanzure_> fenn: so, yes, it does sound almost too mission oriented.
02:49 < kanzure_> recall the issues in recursive self-improvement.
02:50 < fenn> kanzure_: do you not believe in the concept of "improvement" now?
02:50 < kanzure_> people still trying to figure out how to quantify improvement
02:50 < fenn> we can very easily quantify some types of improvement
02:50 < fenn> heck there's even a world happiness index
02:50 < kanzure_> I could possibly go for some computational optimization big o notation arguments on certain types of improvements. 
02:51 < fenn> 0 cpu cycles is the best kind of algorithm
02:51 < fenn> (translation: people do a lot of useless crap)
02:51 < kanzure_> O'Neill habitats, or even O'Neill habitats without the "in space" aspect, is where it's at -- it's not a platform necessarily for improvement, but if improvement or beneficial mutation does occur, it can be harnessed and repeated.
02:52 < fenn> luf is all about the ocean habitats, and the more i think about it the more i realize that the moon would be a lot easier to colonize
02:52 < kanzure_> fenn: easier than the ocean?
02:52 < fenn> (if only we had a rotovator)
02:52 < gene> rotovator?
02:52 < fenn> well, two rotovators, one for earth and one for luna
02:52 < gene> oh yeah
02:52 < gene> I remember now
02:53 < fenn> momentum exchange tethers
02:53 < gene> you might be able to dig a hole in the moon if you get your lunar rotovator just right
02:53 < fenn> i think the objective is to not crash into the moon :)
02:54 < gene> but if you but a shovel on one end ans spin it fast enough...
02:54 < fenn> just fill plastic bags with the loose dust that's everywhere on luna
02:54 < gene> yup
02:54 < fenn> then the tether comes down and picks up the bag
02:54 < gene> and sell it on earth as genuine moon dust!
02:55 < fenn> hah, sell it in orbit as genuine space colony materials
02:55 < gene> that too
02:55 < fenn> or use it to re-boost your earth rotovator
02:55 < gene> yeah
02:56 < gene> or shoot it at the earth's atmosphere for a continuous fireworks show
02:57 < fenn> most people dont realize that lava tubes are kilometers in diameter on luna
02:57 < gene> KILOMETERS?
02:57 < fenn> yep
02:57 < gene> you're kidding
02:57 < gene> damn
02:57 < fenn> low gravity
02:57 < gene> great place to build a house
02:59 < fenn> you can see some collapsed tubes, um, hadley rille maybe is one of them?
02:59 < kanzure_> fenn: so, back on topic
02:59 < kanzure_> where were we.
02:59 < kanzure_> were we making me declare a goal or something?
03:00 < drazak> maybe
03:00 < drazak> :D
03:00 < fenn> i think you were trying to clear out the cruft accumulating in the topic
03:00 < kanzure_> in the /topic ?
03:01 < gene> goal
03:01 < gene> to make a self-replicating automaton
03:01 < bkero> I'll tubes your topic.
03:01 < kanzure_> gene: That's not the meta-goal.
03:01 < kanzure_> gene: The kinematic self-replicating machine work is a subset of some others.
03:02 < gene> please specify meta goal
03:02 < kanzure_> fenn: feel free to moderate the /topic I guess.
03:03 < kanzure_> Everyone has known my own personal goals for a while now .. that simple "to do as much as possible" phrase.
03:03 < gene> specify goal
03:03 < gene> to make a replicator validator program?
03:03 < fenn> self replicating machines are useful for effectively eliminating most economic costs
03:03 < fenn> but then what to do with them?
03:04 < kanzure_> fenn: That's not the way that we stumbled upon them.
03:04 < gene> what do you mean what to do with them
03:04 < fenn> i want to build giant structures in space to communicate with the zodiac, but i dont expect anyone else to share that goal
03:04 < gene> solve world hunger, make dyson spheres, make cheesecakes the size of cities
03:04 < fenn> yes, cheesecakes, the size of cities
03:05 < kanzure_> The reason why I refuse to specify goals so clearly any more is because of my previous involvement in that goal cult.
03:05 < fenn> kanzure_: it's the way i stumbled upon them
03:05 < fenn> kanzure_: have you seen the price tag on a new lathe?
03:05 < kanzure_> fenn: In our discussions in here, specifically, we started from talk about things other than replicators, and then arrived at replicators. That's what I meant.
03:06 < kanzure_> Wait. Maybe not. /me doesn't know his history.
03:06 < fenn> hm the new lathe argument doesn't work so well with all the cheap tools from china now available
03:06 < kanzure_> Argument for what?
03:06 < fenn> but they used to be like $8000
03:06 < fenn> so it was worth taking the time to build one from scratch
03:06 < fenn> and then i realized that there was just all this stuff laying around, and you just had to put it together right
03:07 < fenn> but the lathe is mostly self-generating, so how far could you stretch that concept
03:07 < kanzure_> fenn: I seem to recall us moving to talks about replicators after talk about 'improvement'.
03:07 < gene_> what the heck just happened
03:07 < fenn> i seem to recall you found me because of the gingery machines wiki
03:08 < fenn> or something like that
03:08 < kanzure_> hrm, that's right.
03:08 < kanzure_> So maybe it was just replicators from the go. Huh.
03:08 < fenn> anyway, i was working on airmuscles for an exoskeleton or some such
03:08 < fenn> so it's not like i was just pimping my chevy
03:10 < drazak> hm
03:11 < kanzure_> drazak: This was recent and might point to a few things: http://heybryan.org/bootstrapping_personal_fabrication.html
03:12 < kanzure_> I sent an email to Michel once that talked about 'supply chain length minimization' (I am program, programmer and that which is programmed)
03:13 < kanzure_> That phrase has relations to http://heybryan.org/recursion.html 'course. 
03:15 < drazak> hm
03:15 < drazak> I need to learn more about synthesizing primers
03:15 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/fractal.html was a partial elaboration about springboarding via philanthropical bootstrapping to get to stable points of functionality in large scale systems (like, say, O'Neill habitats, or civilizations in the sense that Kevin Kelly talks about re: civilizations-as-an-organism)
03:16 < kanzure_> drazak: http://primerfox.com/
03:16 < drazak> I wonder if there's a way eventually to synthesize bacteria to make commonly used primers
03:16 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/DNA_synthesizer for oligonucleotide synthesis instructions
03:16 < gene_> FURRY ALERT
03:16 < kanzure_> drazak: Yes, there is. 
03:16 < kanzure_> drazak: Consider wrapping the primers in the plasmid or bacterial genome with endonuclease recognition sites.
03:17 < kanzure_> And then just have bacteria that manufacture the endonucleases, and purify those.
03:17 < gene_> what's a primer?
03:17 < kanzure_> That's the idea of http://heybryan.org/new_exp.html the do-it-yourself bioreactor project.
03:17 < drazak> not wha I was thinkig at all
03:17 < drazak> hold on
03:17 < kanzure_> gene_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymerase_chain_reaction PCR requires primers so that polymerase knows where to start replicating.
03:17 < drazak> let me grabthe word
03:18 < kanzure_> s/replicating/copying/
03:18 < fenn> oh my god, your nick is "gene" and you dont know what a primer is?
03:18 < gene_> I thought primers were the nucleotides not the sequence you want to copy
03:18 < drazak> ahh, plasmid is the word
03:18 < drazak> yeah
03:19 < drazak> kanzure_: plasmids would definitely be a way to do it, I'd think
03:19  * fenn is cranky, must be time for bed
03:19 < kanzure_> Sure, but you still need to have a supply of endonucleases.
03:19 < kanzure_> fenn: but we're not done
03:19 < drazak> kanzure_: are plasmids replicated in bacterial cell division?
03:20 < kanzure_> drazak: Sort of. I recall that they 'drop off'. They are not multimeiosis-cyclic-stable. 
03:20 < kanzure_> Erm.
03:20 < drazak> hm
03:20 < kanzure_> fenn etc - are you guys really going to hold me for a 'goal' ?
03:20 < drazak> that's a flawed way to do it then
03:21 < fenn> i like google's "dont be evil"
03:22 < fenn> but that's not a goal
03:22 < kanzure_> whatta about my energy useage maximization principle? 
03:22 < kanzure_> "Do as much as possible with as little as possible, until I can do everything with nothing at all"
03:22 < fenn> why would you want to use energy?
03:22 < fenn> right
03:22 < gene_> I think you mean minimization
03:22 < kanzure_> No, I do not mean minimization.
03:22 < kanzure_> No point in being idle.
03:22 < gene_> ok
03:22 < gene_> I see what you mean
03:23 < fenn> bucky fuller called this technological growth process 'ephemeralization'
03:23 < kanzure_> and Max More calls it 'entropy'
03:23 < kanzure_> erm
03:23 < kanzure_> 'extropy
03:23 < kanzure_> Fuck.
03:23 < fenn> the word extropy is too bound up in philosophy
03:24 < fenn> cell phones are generally not considered "extropic" are they?
03:24 < gene> whoa
03:24 < kanzure_> I don't know about that generally, but I would consider them extropic, yes. 
03:24 < gene> something weird is going on
03:25 < fenn> your connection is flaky
03:25 < gene> I keep losing my connection to the irc server
03:25 < gene> or my kinematic modellor could be messing it up
03:25 < kanzure_> Lots of relations to the constructal theory too -- the points of suboptimization are construed to the nodes in the system, i.e. cell phone users, see how much they hate their interfaces (little keys, not a lot of memory, and yet ..). <- I'm screwing this up a bit, but I'm too lazy to figure out how at the moment.
03:26 < kanzure_> Something about natural systems organizing such that all of the choices that you'd rather not make are made by the individual agents, i.e. an individual router ends up having to choose where to send packets to instead of global routing protocols.
03:26 < kanzure_> Anyway.
03:26 < fenn> stigmergy
03:26 < gene> just do it
03:27 < gene> damn
03:27 < gene> kinematic modeller isn't liking my geometry at all
03:28 < drazak> kanzure_: I meant for making my own primers chemically
03:28 < drazak> kanzure_: as in building the sequence
03:28 < kanzure_> Yes, that's nucleotide synthesis via oligonucleotide synthesis.
03:29 < kanzure_> Oh, do you mean to start with pre-made dNTPs?
03:29 < drazak> no
03:29 < gene> what about the nucleotides?
03:29 < fenn> start with nitrogen, oxygen, carbon, phorphorus, hydrogen?
03:30 < drazak> fenn: not... really
03:30 < fenn> or maybe just a big ball of undifferentiated energy
03:30 < drazak> fenn: synthesis of nucleotide chains
03:30 < kanzure_> I'm pretty sure the oligonucleotide synthesis stuff works for that, drazak.
03:30 < drazak> ok
03:31 < drazak> yep, didn't know it was a different word
03:31 < drazak> :)
03:31 < fenn> standard oligo stuff is only good for 25-50bp; how do they do those 3kbp sequences?
03:31 < kanzure_> ligation?
03:32 < gene> Deinococcus radiotolerans DNA repair complex?
03:32 < gene> use sticky ends?
03:32 < fenn> but you'd have the same error rate, unless they somehow amplified single strands and checked each one
03:32 < kanzure_> I doubt they check.
03:32 < fenn> it's not damaged dna, you just get the wrong sequence
03:33 < gene> that's what the Deinococcus radiotolerans DNA repair complex does
03:33 < fenn> they'd have to check, otherwise they'd have the same error rate as if they just made a big oligo from scratch
03:33 < gene> it puts two sticky ends together
03:33 < gene> if some of the nucleotides don't match then it replaces them
03:33 < fenn> gene: this is single strand synthesis
03:33 < kanzure_> gene: That's not what we're talking about.
03:34 < kanzure_> http://mrgene.com/
03:34 < kanzure_> http://e-oligos.com/
03:34 < gene> yeah
03:34 < fenn> there is no other strand to check against
03:34 < gene> but you can synth a bunch of small strands such that they all overlap
03:34 < gene> and then have the repair complex check em
03:34 < gene> venter's doing it
03:35 < kanzure_> The repair complex checks complementary strands.
03:35 < gene> to compile his organisms
03:35 < kanzure_> There is no complementary strand here.
03:35 < fenn> gene: do you have a link explaining this process?
03:35 < gene> fuck wrong bacteria
03:36 < gene> I meant to say deinococcus radiodurans
03:36 < fenn> that's how i read it anyway
03:37 < gene> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinococcus_radiodurans
03:37 < kanzure_> gene: On Monday I can give you a linux disc.
03:37 < gene> good
03:37 < gene> vista has pissed me off
03:38 < gene> so deinococcus checks it genome against multiple copies
03:38 < kanzure_> Yes, so that's definitely not what we're talking about.
03:39 < gene> then what are you talking about single strand synthesis?
03:40 < fenn> i can see how this would work, since you get to 'vote' on the correct nucleotide
03:40 < gene> yeah
03:40 < gene> I think it's sorta like that
03:41 < gene> I haven't read many radioresistance papers in a while
03:41 < fenn> i guess i should just watch venter's ted talk instead of fighting with google
03:41 < gene> nah
03:41 < gene> I don't think venter says much about it in the ted talk either
03:42 < gene> I believe he just puts the dna in deinococcus
03:42 < gene> or something like that
03:43 < fenn> well here's a protocol, doesnt really answer my questions: http://books.google.com/books?id=8x02velGjKMC&pg=PA374&lpg=PA374&dq=overlapping+oligo+synthesis&source=web&ots=dCVC6hCYB8&sig=jY18FQL4BEE-VCKtFtQn3wCm2H8&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result
03:44 < fenn> 'screening isolates by cloning and sequencing' is basically what i meant by having to check each oligo
03:44 < kanzure_> right
03:45 < fenn> 450 is much better than 50 
03:49 < gene> so how do we synth enough to make a protein
03:49 < gene> like a fancy polymerase
03:50 < kanzure_>  what are you on about now
03:50 < fenn> matter compiling
03:50 < gene> heh
03:50 < fenn> chicken and egg problem
03:50 < gene> you've read The Diamond Age haven't you fenn
03:50 < fenn> yep, but i had the idea first :P
03:52 < fenn> so you just repeat the 'clone and sequence (and ligate)' process until you have a long enough sequence
03:52 < gene> guess so
03:52 < fenn> you can do lots in parallel of course
03:52 < fenn> so all the next-gen sequencing stuff hleps
03:54 < drazak> I think I need to read more, to understand more for all of this
03:54 < fenn> mumble mumble microfluidics array grumble
03:54 < kanzure_> drazak: this?
03:54 < drazak> kanzure_: not /this/
03:54 < drazak> but biochemistry in general :P
03:54 < kanzure_> then that?
03:54 < kanzure_> oh
03:54 < drazak> I'm gonna grab my text and a soda and dig in :P
03:54 < gene> you can make microfluidics with shrinky dinks
03:55 < fenn> so they say
03:55 < fenn> i mean, um, that's what she said, or something
03:55 < gene> high quality microfluidics
03:55 < gene> that don't have metal
03:55 < gene> unfortunately
03:56 < fenn> metal?
03:56 < gene> for pumping
03:57 < fenn> can't you just squeeze them? :)
03:57 < gene> no
03:58 < gene> not if you want to do it fast
04:01 < fenn> ultrasonics + valvular conduits
04:01 < gene> maybe
04:01 < fenn> magnetorhelogical fluid
04:02 < fenn> magnetohydrodynamic thrusters!
04:02 < gene> then you have ions
04:02 < drazak> magnetobacteria!
04:02 < gene> hmmm
04:02 < gene> you mean like bacto ferrofluid?
04:03 < fenn> "Magnetobacteria are gram-negative proteobacteria that use flagella to swim."
04:04 < drazak> aye
04:04 < drazak> they're also anaerobic, iirc
04:04 < fenn> caulobacter have this anchor thing to stick to any surface, and they also have flagellae
04:04 < gene> and have tiny magnetite magnetosomes
04:04 < fenn> so you could use some mutant caulobacteria as a cilium
04:04 < gene> then you have contamination
04:05 < gene> but it is an interesting concept
04:07 < fenn> i feel a weakness coming on
04:13 < gene> did you accidently a whole bottle of coke?
04:14 < willPow3r_> omg
04:14 < willPow3r_>  /b/tard
04:14 < gene> no
04:14 < gene> I don't go to /b/
04:14 < gene> I never go to b
04:16 < willPow3r_> neither do i
04:16 < gene> good
04:17 < gene> never goto /b/
04:17 < willPow3r_> because goto is bad programming practice
04:20 < willPow3r_> b/tard :Unknown comman
04:20 < willPow3r_> xchat is funny
04:38 < ybit> "[Sat Oct 11 2008] [19:05:33] <drazak>	ok, so I have a bin of water" -- last log saved until someone in the family wanted to play around on here while i was showering. yes, i bathe
04:38 < drazak> haha
04:38 < ybit> so, anyone mind linking to a logfile maybe?
04:42 < bkero> http://www.boingboing.net/2008/09/23/what-went-wrong.html
04:53 < drazak> hm
04:53 < drazak> it seems most of these methods
04:54 < drazak> are for large scale oligonucleotide synthesis
04:55 < ybit> so, nothing interesting?
04:55 < ybit> or nothing at all...
05:12 < kanzure_> ybit lots has happened.
05:12 < kanzure_> unfortunately, I'm not logging from this box
05:16 < ybit> oOokay
05:17 < gene> hey one of the oligosynth websites says you get a free gift with every order
05:17 < gene> wonder what it could be?
05:17 < gene> coupons?
05:17 < gene> Centrifuge?
05:18 < gene> enzymes?
05:18 < gene> ep tubes?
05:18 < gene> guess we'll never know
05:19 < gene> cus' we're doing it ourself
05:40 < kanzure_> http://web.archive.org/web/20060615181106/http://www.bizdex.com.au/ "National interoperability framework" holy shit I'm moving to Australia.
05:49 < kanzure_> Hey, trade tariffs on unmetadatetized materials.
05:52 < kanzure_> better yet, trade tariffs on companies that refuse to do the whole open UDDI B2B ebXML trick
05:58 < gene> SWEET
05:58 < gene> hey kanzure is there any way I can use my laptop as a display for another computer
05:59 < kanzure_> Desktop-over-the-network, rewire the LCD, probably a few other methods I'm forgetting.
05:59 < gene> damn
06:00 < gene> I ain't rewiring this laptop
06:00 < gene> it's new
06:00 < kanzure_>  Then do network-over-the-desktop.
06:01 < gene> nevermind
06:03 < gene> so could you help convert me to linux
06:03 < gene> on monday?
06:04 < gene> the hard drive partitioning is the part I am not familiar with
06:05 < willPow3r_> gene, tried vnc?
06:05 < gene> no
06:05 < kanzure_> Partitioning is done by the installation wizards, but first you should run 'disk defragmentation' so that you don't have files in weird places. 
06:06 < gene> good
06:06 < kanzure_> Anyway, it's a good idea to do a full backup of anything important.
06:06 < gene> ok
06:06 < gene> that's easy
06:06 < gene> I don't have much important stuff
06:06 < gene> beside programs
06:07 < gene> the thing that really annoys me about vista right now is that solidworks will try to start up at some random time
06:07 < gene> but it can't
06:07 < drazak> So, I really want to research gap junctions and stuff
06:07 < drazak> but I'm nowhere near equiped to do that
06:07 < gene> so it crashes
06:07 < gene> what are gap functions?
06:08 < gene> programming related or biology or other?
06:09 < gene> oh
06:09 < gene> biology related
06:09 < drazak> gap junctions are how certain cells can preform a 'docking' process and exchange fluids
06:09 < drazak> it's done with connexin proteins
06:09 < gene> oh
06:09 < gene> that's definately cool stuff
06:09 < drazak> aye
06:09 < drazak> a teacher at my highschool did 1.5 years of research on it
06:09 < gene> get a bunch of cells to link up
06:09 < drazak> before he lost funding
06:09 < drazak> wellll
06:10 < drazak> it's a lot more complicated than that
06:10 < drazak> ;)
06:10 < gene> make a circulatory system of sorts
06:10 < drazak> nope
06:10 < gene> of sorts
06:10 < drazak> doesn't work like that
06:10 < gene> ok
06:11 < gene> dna exchange?
06:11 < gene> like in bacteria?
06:11 < gene> or are you talking about something in eukaryotes
06:11 < drazak> http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/277/39/36725
06:11 < drazak> eukaryotes
06:13 < drazak> that's actually the paper my teacher wrote
06:13 < gene> dang
06:13 < gene> then again
06:13 < gene> they also cut off the guy who had the idea of using GFP for signalling
06:18 < gene> so cells can exchange ATP?
06:18 < drazak> aye
06:18 < gene> interesting
06:18 < drazak> I'm going to ask him tuesday if he ever discovered why ATP is transgered so much better by connexin 43 than by connexin 32
06:19 < gene> reminds me of how modular robots distribute power among themselves
06:19 < drazak> heh
06:21 < gene> wonder if cells do it for the same reason
06:21 < drazak> no idea
06:22 < drazak> we don't even know what causes gap junction docking to happen
06:22 < drazak> whether or not there's a receptor or what
06:22 < gene> well then
06:22 < drazak> yeah
06:22 < gene> stress up some cells and watch them under a microscope
06:22 < drazak> well
06:22 < drazak> it's more than that
06:22 < drazak> but yeah
06:23 < drazak> there's like 23 types of connexins that have to do with gap junction dockings
06:23 < gene> get a cell to use up it's atp
06:23 < drazak> and certain ones are classified certain ways
06:23 < drazak> as in that it only talks to other cells with that class of connexin
06:24 < gene> interesting
06:24 < gene> that might be useful for say growing organs
06:24 < gene> do you know if kidney cells have connexins?
06:25 < drazak> probably
06:25 < drazak> I don't know a ton about it
06:25 < drazak> :P
06:25 < gene> kidney's require a lot of structure
06:25 < gene> might be easy to see if connexins help cells organise
06:26 < drazak> I have /no/ idea dude
06:26 < kanzure_> You're doing it wrong.
06:26  * kanzure_ goes away.
06:26 < gene> Am I?
06:26 < gene> how am I doing it wrong?
06:30  * drazak reads the full text
06:33 < gene> got a question for anyone out there
06:33 < gene> how do you purify proteins
06:34 < kanzure_> Antisomethings.
06:35 < gene> antibodies
06:35 < gene> damn
06:35 < gene> how do you make the antibodies?
06:36 < gene> inject the protein into a mouse?
06:37 < drazak> no
06:37 < drazak> that's not how
06:39 < kanzure_> Recombination + selection experiments.
06:39 < kanzure_> Kind of like aptamers IIRC.
06:39 < gene> ah
06:40 < gene> so is protein purification something that can be done by an amateur
07:38 < drazak> http://buffalo.craigslist.org/sys/831245536.html
07:39 < drazak> I just offered him $50-100
10:01  * willPow3r_ just installed 2nd life
10:01 < willPow3r_> hope its not as gay as wow
10:07 < hjkl> its useless
10:23 < willPow3r_> whys that
10:23 < willPow3r_> my guy has a gay ass hairdo and i can't seem to change it
12:13 < willPow3r_> 2nd life is soo so lame.
15:35 < bkero> Second life is so lame.
15:36 < hjkl> life is so lame.
15:36 < hjkl> ^^
15:43 < ybit> lame
15:43 < bkero> UR so lame
15:43 < ybit> :D
15:43 < pppk> but dude, michio kaku loved teh second life
15:43 < pppk> can't be that bad
15:43 < bkero> OpenOffice 3 is going to be released tomorrow.
15:43 < bkero> It's on the FTPs already though.
15:49  * ybit needs to create a bot which mentions Lite Sm everytime Second Life is brought up
15:50 < bkero> Lite Sm?
15:51 < ybit> https://www.litesim.com
15:51 < ybit> not as bloated
15:51 < ybit> and it is foss
15:51 < bkero> lol
15:52 < ybit> you laugh because you, my friend, are lame ;)
15:52 < bkero> Vrey lame
15:52 < bkero> Of considerable lamitude
15:52 < ybit> hehe
15:58 < fenn> whatever happened to VRML
15:59 < fenn> hmm i wonder what is litesim's target market
16:01 < fenn> and why is it $24.99/mo?
16:02 < fenn> this is bad architecture: "By default all regions and grids are linked with the supergrid - a set of services which enable centralised management of all the grids and regions we host and centralised login."
16:40 < ybit> they don't allow direc connections to the lsmainisland due to security concerns, but you can setup your own grid and link it to the main grid to allow avatar migration
17:40 < fenn> matweb says nothing about engineered basalt :(
18:53 < fenn> here's a gem from the past: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/replicator_notebook.jpg
18:53 < fenn> first attempt at supply chain minimization
19:41 < willPow3r> kinda
19:41 < willPow3r> wrong window sry
19:42 < willPow3r> x-mouse can lead to "wtf where the hell did my text go... oh, fuck..." moments
20:59 < fenn> remember to document blatantly obvious things in case one day you will be reading your lab notebook and be wondering wtf you were trying to do
21:00 < kanzure_> context?
21:00 < kanzure_> also, sleeping sucks
21:00 < fenn> me looking at my old research notebook, procrastinating resume writing etc
21:01 < fenn> also, how am i supposed to send a letter of recommendation electronically without looking at it?
21:01 < fenn> there's no such thing as a"digital sealed envelope"
21:02 < kanzure_> what if they just so happen to have their PGP key?
21:03 < fenn> "they" probably dont know what a PGP key is, and "the other they" doesnt have one
21:26 < kanzure> Hey, is that Deepak?
21:28 < ybit> http://www.osaerospace.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=Linkdumps -- neat
21:28 < ybit> anyone know of a spacecraft design far along?
21:28 < kanzure> Isn't that me?
21:28 < kanzure> There's no zip file to my knowledge that I can just hand you, no. 
21:29 < fenn> what do you mean "spacecraft design"?
21:30 < ybit> something similar to http://www.asi.org/adb/04/02/spacecraft-info.html
21:30 < kanzure> Yay Artemis Society.
21:30 < kanzure> http://moo.asi.org/ has some giants in the industry in there. Just FYI. :)
21:31 < kanzure> Wife of Goddard or something :p
21:31  * fenn trembles in awe
21:32 < drazak> hey, the ligands interacting with signal receptors and ion channels on cells are not the organometallic ligands, right?
21:32 < fenn> "the organometallic ligands"?
21:33 < fenn> organometallic just means it has a metal ion stuck to it, but those are usually used for metabolism/catabolism
21:33 < drazak> right, but those are different ligands, right?
21:34 < drazak> but when you talk abotu organometallic interactions, you talk about ligands
21:34 < fenn> i suppose
21:34 < fenn> proteins can interact with metal ions too
21:35 < drazak> right
21:35 < drazak> but:
21:35 < fenn> um, here's an example: EDTA is an organometallic ligand if it picks up some metal ion
21:36 < drazak> "Cells also have surgace membrane proteins (signal receptors) that present highly specific binding sites for extracellular signall moleculse (receptor ligands). When an external ligand bonds to its specific receptor, the receptor protein transduces teh signal carried by the ligand into an intracellular message.
21:37 < fenn> oh, that just means the molecule that binds to the signal receptor
21:37 < drazak> right
21:37 < fenn> ligand = binder, in latin
21:37 < fenn> or something like that
21:37 < drazak> ah ok
21:37 < drazak> I don't know much latin
21:37 < fenn> me either
21:40 < fenn> can anyone here unstuff .sit files?
22:03 < kanzure> is it a compression format?
22:03 < kanzure> I have some illegal software in the lab that uncompresses nearly everything known to man
22:08 < fenn> yes it's some old macintosh format
22:08 < pppk> what's the software called bryan?
22:10 < kanzure> stuffit
22:14 < fenn> well it's here if anyone wants to give it a shot.. i'm not sure exactly what's in here: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/Ben.sit
22:15 < fenn> i'm hoping its my old lab reports
22:39 < pppk> I can't stand the suspense
22:39 < pppk> what's in it?
22:43 < fenn> pppk: i would certainly like to find out!
22:43 < kanzure> so the algOS guy wants to hook up with me
22:44 < fenn> it's really amazing how little i remember from what i ostensibly learned in college
22:44 < fenn> i'm reading all these old emails and while i remember the people, i have no idea what i'm talking about
22:46 < kanzure> for instance?
22:46 < kanzure> random ranting?
22:46 < kanzure> "rawr you're doing yer integrals all backasswards"
22:46 < fenn> classification and structure of the ebola virus was the one i just read
22:47 < fenn> apparently i gave a presentation on it (whoda thunk)
22:47 < kanzure> hey, what's up with kanzure___ ?
22:48 < fenn> it's full moon so he has a tail :)
22:48 < fenn> just dont feed him after midnight or he'll turn into a giant ape
22:49 < kanzure> it's true, he used to howl at the moon
22:52 < fenn> "We found 45 kilos of flour the other day
22:52 < fenn> in a dumpster, and there was a pancake party. Then there was a tickling
22:52 < fenn> party, a pizza party, and a yerba matte party. We're way cooler than frat
22:52 < fenn> boys who have just beer parties."
23:53 -!- jk4930_ is now known as jk4930