--- Day changed Fri Oct 17 2008
01:00 < kanzure_> Still blocked.
01:01 < kanzure_> You know, this is an amazingly awesome time for a panic attack.
01:22 < kanzure_> ping ping ping
01:23 < bkero> pong pong pong
01:24  * kanzure_ is relieved.
01:26 < kanzure_> Okay. This is too retarded. How do I go about wiring up my box as a router, again? I have multiple ethernet cards, what's the second step?
01:29 < bkero> ip forward
01:29 < bkero> bridge-utils?
01:30 < kanzure_> Bridge-utils sounds familiar.
01:30 < kanzure_> I had this sort of setup running in 2004. Wish I could remember.
01:30  * bkero goes home.
01:30 < kanzure_> Actually, it was also on this machine, so the software's probably still laying around here somewhere. Just need the magic names.
01:32 < kanzure_> http://bridge.sf.net/
01:50 < drazak> bridge sucks
01:50 < drazak> fyi
01:51 < drazak> it's a bad way to do things, but that's my opinion
01:51 < drazak> imo you should get a hardware router, there's like 3 good reasons behind it
01:58 < fenn> i think you just use iptables
01:58 < fenn> "just"
02:30 < willPow3r> bridges work fine
03:39 < gene> hey guys check it out
03:39 < gene> transhumanism's getting a magazine!
03:39 < gene> http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/16/new-online-magazine.html
03:40 < fenn> u too slow
03:41 < gene> now we look more like a cult than ever!
03:41 < gene> or some pop-vanity movement
03:42 < fenn> yay WTA! i mean, yay humanity+!
03:43 < fenn> just once i'd like to see a 3d rendered male on a magazine cover
03:43 < fenn> preferably not a soldier
04:38 < willPow3r> information moves too fast for a print magazine.
04:38 < willPow3r> it wont last
04:39 < willPow3r> not to mention the fact that the editor doesn't even use his real name. R.U. Sirius? so fucking lame
04:40 < willPow3r> compounding that with the blatant promotion of 2nd life, as if thats the future of humanity (it isn't)
04:42 < willPow3r> the problem with gathering people who loosely share the same concept of the future behind one voice is that you end up with ONE FUCKING VOICE
04:43 < willPow3r> and a cultish following ensues, much as is happening to this "singularitarian" idealism
04:43 < fenn> i think R.U. Sirius is his real name
04:44 < fenn> at least it's not just an internet handle
04:44 < willPow3r> nope, his real name is Ken Goffman
04:45 < fenn> why dont you ask him?
04:45 < willPow3r> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._U._Sirius
04:46 < willPow3r> at least he appears to have some street cred, at least amongst the very left mainstream media
04:46 < willPow3r> too much at least
04:49 < willPow3r> he's not the kind of guy i would want to endorse any movement i was a part of
04:49 < fenn> because he uses a pen name?
04:50 < willPow3r> no, because of his reputation
04:50 < willPow3r> he comes across as a smart fellow who took way too much acid in the 90s
04:51 < willPow3r> and his appeal to the "counterculture," whatever the hell that is, would imply that my movement is obviously appealing to the wrong people
04:52 < fenn> all i've read was "the cyberpunk fakebook" which i thought was pretty funny
04:52 < willPow3r> "According to Cyberia, Douglas Rushkoff's 1994 book about early '90s cyberculture, Sirius' girlfriend, Lady Drew, once had an abortion while on LSD."
04:53 < willPow3r> i sincerely hope i'm not judging a book by its cover. or wikipedia entry.
04:54 < fenn> that's sort of a weird thing to put in an article about someone anyway
04:55 < willPow3r> its an article on someone's persona
04:55 < willPow3r> hence the "trivia" section
04:58 < fenn> it looks like his "thing" is interviewing people: http://www.10zenmonkeys.com/author/ru-sirius/
05:01 < willPow3r> i think the whole "question authority" concept has run its course.
05:02 < fenn> what is that supposed to mean?
05:02 < willPow3r> it doesn't really mean anything anymore, since everybody already knows the gov't is corrupt and panders to their own desires only
05:03 < willPow3r> well, here in the US anyway ;)
05:03 < fenn> "authority" means more than just government
05:03 < willPow3r> not really. authority is the only power that can oppress people
05:03 < willPow3r> and that power is gov't
05:04 < willPow3r> since only people can oppress people
05:05 < fenn> bullshit, authority is also doctors and universities and "experts"
05:05 < willPow3r> i can choose to ignore a doctor. i can't choose to ignore a law, at least without certain consequences
05:06 < willPow3r> so they aren't authority, they are experts
05:06 < fenn> you're being obtuse
05:06 < willPow3r> thats a relative term. you're being acute.
05:06 < fenn> why, thank you
05:07 < fenn> ignoring doctors isnt the same as questioning their authority
05:07 < willPow3r> if you think they are giving you bad information and get a second opinion as to their diagnosis, it is
05:07 < fenn> i think they're all full of shit
05:07 < willPow3r> doctors? or people
05:08 < fenn> but due to the legal system, there's no alternative
05:08 < fenn> you can be put in jail for "practicing medicine without a license"
05:08 < willPow3r> you blame the "legal system," "authority," "experts," etc. but these are all just normal people or systems of normal people
05:08 < fenn> we're all just normal people
05:09 < willPow3r> its humanity itself that has the problems
05:09 < willPow3r> so to "question authority" is really to question your faith in humanity
05:09 < fenn> blind pandering to authority is one of the problems with humanity
05:10 < willPow3r> but its innate behavior
05:10 < willPow3r> we're hard wired to do it
05:11 < fenn> i'm not convinced
05:11 < willPow3r> if you take the social structure of a pack of lions and give it a form of superorganic intelligence, the same result would follow
05:12 < willPow3r> this is what happens when you mix a neocortex with a r-complex
05:12 < willPow3r> social structures pandering to those in positions of power
05:13 < fenn> also, your "everybody already knows the gov't is corrupt" is not true at all
05:13 < willPow3r> well, that might have been a big argument to make on my part
05:13 < fenn> it's only because you hang out with intelligentsia all day that you have this view
05:13 < willPow3r> most people don't care
05:14 < willPow3r> one way or the other really
05:14 < fenn> most people don't think, they blindly follow what "experts" and other authorities tell them
05:14 < willPow3r> and those who do are intelligent enough to eliminate the need for political elites
05:15 < fenn> sometimes i find myself advising people on things i have no idea about, just because i sound "smart"
05:16 < fenn> it's hard to question your own authority
05:16 < willPow3r> hopefully you wont have to answer for bad advice you gave
05:16 < fenn> well, it's their fault either way
05:16 < willPow3r> lol
05:16 < willPow3r> words of a republican
05:17 < willPow3r> well, capitalist anyway
05:17 < fenn> go ahead, call me some more names that don't even make sense
05:17 < willPow3r> they do make sense
05:18 < fenn> telling someone they are stupid for believing my bullshit makes me a republican/capitalist?
05:18 < willPow3r> no, but saying its their fault for believing it is
05:18 < fenn> if it's not their fault, whose?
05:19 < willPow3r> society's fault for not giving you the education you need to be able to determine if you are right or wrong
05:19 < fenn> I can't know everything
05:19 < fenn> (i cant _know_ anything, for that matter)
05:20 < willPow3r> thats a deeply philosophical discussion
05:20 < fenn> anyway, "education" is just more authority
05:20 < fenn> i'm not saying it's all wrong, but it needs to be questioned
05:20 < willPow3r> only to the point where you realize that you are questioning the best that we can come up with, in the way of education
05:21 < willPow3r> gov't
05:21 < willPow3r> etc
05:21 < fenn> it's not the best
05:21 < willPow3r> it is the best
05:21 < fenn> whatever, i hate talking to you, go fuck off and die
05:21 < willPow3r> lol
05:21 < willPow3r> irrationality ensues.
05:24 < willPow3r> fuck. since when was it a bad thing to be a republican.
05:42 < nsh> 1960's sometime
05:43 < fenn> since lincoln
05:53 < nsh> hahahah
05:53 < nsh> oh man
05:53 < nsh> barack is hilarious
05:53 < nsh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5SWQJWm6Tg
07:44 < kanzure_> letit be known that all things WTA suck. Thank you.
08:02 < nsh> world tennis association>
08:02 < nsh> ?
08:03 < fenn> world transhumanist assoc
09:22 < fenn> we must.. eradicate [particles of] typofuscin that are clogging the tubes
09:26 < UtopiahG1ML> Emotiv EPOC featured on the Discovery Channel : The team has ten days to build a road rage proof car using biofeedback and mind-control technologies. 
09:26 < UtopiahG1ML> http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/prototype-this-mind-controlled-car-full-episode.html
10:17 < fenn> hmm "mind controlled car" makes me think the driver would be controlling the car with his mind, not "road rage proof"
10:18 < fenn> (i was just watching macross plus, where a mind-controlled jet fighter does what its pilot is thinking, regardless whether he meant it or not)
10:35 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/macross-road-rage.avi
10:35 < fenn> pardon the awful transcoding :)
10:36 < UtopiahG1ML> fenn: well you can do that with the EmotivKit you just have to train a bit more on accuracy
10:37 < UtopiahG1ML> for Xmas Id like :
10:38 < UtopiahG1ML> an emotiv kit, a AmpedBikes kit, a large multitouch table and several solar pannels
10:54 < fenn> oh man, gundam, star-wars, DBZ, and mac/win all in the same video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efp-v2KB4No
13:05 < UtopiahG1ML> so much work to do and so little motivation
13:05 < UtopiahG1ML> now is the time to avoid thinking and "Just do it" (this message has been approved by Nike and Senator McCain)
13:43 < kanzure_> I'm annoyed at how blatantly commercial the "hplusmagazine" thing is. "Look! It reads your emotions for only $399!".
13:43 < kanzure_> "OMFG UPLOADING!"
14:04 < UtopiahG1ML> ?
14:09 < kanzure_> Just because you can buy it doesn't mean it's what you're looking for ..
14:09 < kanzure_> Why didn't they advertise MEAs and TMS setups ?? Those are much more practical.
16:09 < kanzure_1_> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/does-the-internet-boost-your-brainpower/?ei=5070
16:09 < kanzure_1_> If Googling's good for the brain, then I must be brilliant.
16:10  * kanzure_1_ eyes his 30,000 Google queries counter ..
16:19 < nsh> round number
16:19 < nsh> you should celebrate
16:24 < kanzure_1_> nsh: They caught on to me. 
16:24 < kanzure_1_> I no longer have the free internets.
16:25 < kanzure_1_> Now I just have one free internet. :(
16:26 < nsh> :-/
16:26 < nsh> what were you doing>?
16:27 < kanzure_1_> Taking a chem exam.
17:14 -!- mindspillage is now known as mind|reading
19:05 < kanzure_>  Server will be going down soon. 
19:49 < faceface> mplayer -playlist rtsp://meetstream.cshl.org:554/AtlasKeynoteGenome01/k/atlas.smi
19:53 < faceface> http://leadingstrand.cshl.edu/
19:53 < faceface> I am finally able to rip the files
19:53 < faceface> I think...
20:25 < kanzure_>  xp_prg How's the ajax interface going?
20:27 < kanzure_> I wish I could hire the Geico caveman to do events.
20:33 < bkero> You should hire the aflak duck instead.
20:33 < xp_prg> kanzure_ coming along, nothing to show you yet though :(
20:33 < xp_prg> I hope to some work on it this weekend
20:34 < xp_prg> I made a couple of files
20:34 < bkero> asynchronous javascript and xml.
20:34 < xp_prg> kanzure di you say there was an e-coli image I could use?
20:35 < kanzure_> There are many ecoli images if you need to use one I guess.
20:36 < kanzure_> bkero: The duck costs a lot. :-/ Have to clean up his shit. The stone age was after we had invented the outhouse, however.
20:36 < bkero> You should ask him if he rode on dinosaurs.
20:37 < kanzure_> I was just on a purple dinosaur last week, come to think of it.
20:37 < bkero> I've got one in my back yard.  His name is Drago.
20:37 < kanzure_> A dragon?
20:38 < bkero> No
20:38 < bkero> He's a triceratops
20:42 -!- Overand_ is now known as Overand
21:17 < faceface> kanzure_, I reviewed an interesting website today
21:17 < faceface> http://biodbnet.abcc.ncifcrf.gov/
21:17 < faceface> you may find it usefull for id mapping
21:39 < kanzure_> id?
21:47 < faceface> identifier
22:12 < faceface> database that is
22:55 -!- biopunk is now known as splicer
23:17 < ybit> yo kanzure_ :: re:open-manufacturing pretty plz
23:18 < ybit> btw, the modafinil i had works just fine 
23:18 < ybit> i was taking too low of a dosage
23:18 < ybit> was at just 200-400mg, now i'm at 800mg
23:18 < ybit> which is about standard 
23:21 < ybit> faceface: what did you get all the files from leadingstrand?
23:22 < ybit> nice find, btw, with bioDBnet
23:28 < ybit> fenn: why are you considerng a move to thailand?
23:31 < kanzure_> ybit: what's going on openmanufacturing at the moment?
23:31 < kanzure_> I don't have a normal interface, so it might take me a while to get to it.
23:31 < ybit> sure, one sec
23:31 < kanzure_> ybit: do you want to go find the http://groups.google.com/group/openvirgle posts re: semantic mediawiki and my replies ?
23:31 < kanzure_> That would help in reply to the latest semantic mediawiki bullshit
23:32 < kanzure_> quite literally forwarding the messages to openmanufacturing would work.
23:32 < kanzure_> from the google-groups interface thingy. There was a button: 'forward' which I assume forwards.
23:33 < ybit> open-manufacturing, "Manufacturing a Product...", "Re: universal production set...", "Open hardware directory part 2", "Important open design initiative"
23:34 < ybit> kanzure_ :: when do you think you will be back up?
23:34 < ybit> and why are you blocked from using your email? o.O
23:34 < ybit> i realized you bitrate is now limited...
23:34 < ybit> your*
23:35 < ybit> are you using a router yet?
23:35 < fenn> ybit: that's where the food is
23:35 < ybit> brb, on phone
23:35  * fenn is reading buckminster fuller challenge entries and getting pissed off
23:37 < kanzure_> fenn: I'm sure there are others like us monitoring the results of fuller's doings, or his late organization's doings, so throwing up a page ranting about it is a good idea methinks
23:37 < kanzure_> ybit: Real Soon.
23:37 < ybit> back
23:38  * kanzure_ watches some Star Wars.
23:38  * ybit turns star wars off, "not until you clean your room mister."
23:38 < kanzure_> No router. I was going to go play with the server and throw in an ethernet card, but I got distracted.
23:38 < kanzure_> Bah, my room needs no cleaning. /me trips on a stack of books
23:39 < ybit> heh, or was that an ethernet card? 
23:39 < fenn> kanzure_: it seems to be more about 'good old boy' mentality than anything
23:40 < kanzure_> What do you mean? "In the spirit of Bucky" ?
23:40 < fenn> no, i mean people with big names get to the finals for no particular reason
23:40 < ybit> anywho.. still waiting to hear your comment on trade being necessary
23:41 < kanzure_> fenn made some comments in here on that note
23:41 < fenn> me?
23:41 < kanzure_> I couldn't find anything much to disagree with with fenn.
23:41 < ybit> right, oki
23:41 < fenn> i forget what i said.. something like "cities are located on sites that are conducive to trade"
23:42 < ybit> fenn: i don't have the logs, but you essentially disagreed that trade was necessary?
23:42 < kanzure_> Oh, there was something else about trade from a while back though.
23:42 < ybit> right
23:42 < kanzure_> No reason to trade when you're doing it all yourself .. unless you Just Want To.
23:42 < ybit> right, but hard to do that with limited materials
23:42 < ybit> that = doing it all yourself
23:42 < fenn> move to where the materials are
23:43 < kanzure_> good god fenn's brilliant!
23:43 < ybit> yeah, but they are dispersed all over, so that's near impossible, no?
23:43 < ybit> kanzure_ :P
23:43 < fenn> kanzure_: maybe i should start the fenn institute, then i can give awards to all my friends for being my friends
23:43 < fenn> and we can have a big gay fuck train til the world ends
23:43 < fenn> circular*
23:44 < kanzure_> why can't it be heterosexual..
23:44 < kanzure_> Anyway, ybit: go to where the materials are.
23:44 < kanzure_> Patrick will rant about land bullshit
23:44 < fenn> so anyway this thing is cool, and i'm glad someone is doing it: http://challenge.bfi.org/application_summary/66
23:44 < kanzure_> And then I'll comment about rockets
23:44 < kanzure_> and then he'll say it's impossible
23:44 < kanzure_> and then I'll go build my damn rockets
23:46 < ybit> bah, i give up, i'll worry about it later
23:46 < kanzure_> What?
23:46 < ybit> i was thinking of all humanity
23:46 -!- mind|reading is now known as brain|washing
23:46 < kanzure_> So am I?
23:47 < ybit> not everyone can live in one area, right.. sigh, what am i missing here?
23:47 < kanzure_> Go on?
23:47 < kanzure_> What's missing is explosive irresponsible growth.. why would you grow Humanity if you are unsure of the materials you have available?
23:48 < kanzure_> I don't have a cure for the current predicament -- I can't be held responsible for seven or eight billion people -- I'm working on just one person first (uh, me), and maybe scaling up from there .. Maybe.
23:50 < ybit> if a city is build around natural resources, then they should, in theory, not need them and be fine. i'm concerned about the city that doesn't have the resources. They need to trade or mine them somehow, right?
23:50 < kanzure_> Why did you build a city that has no materials
23:50 < ybit> shit, brb, phone
23:51 < kanzure_> How did you build a city with no materials anyway?
23:59 < ybit> i was thinking that, but it seems to me that question quite similar to the one i'm asking. how do you build a city with no materials?
23:59 < ybit> rather, limited materials*
23:59 < ybit> which is why i ask if trade is necessary
23:59 < kanzure_> You must know your limits.