--- Day changed Sat Oct 18 2008
00:00 < kanzure_> Only if you want to exceed your limits is trade necessary.
00:00 < kanzure_> And even then you're still spiraling down the path to the dark side .. 
00:00 < ybit> heh
00:00 < kanzure_> Uh, I mean, spiraling down to zero resources. So some percent has to be spent on exploration and so on.
00:02 -!- brain|washing is now known as brain|food
00:03 < ybit> oi willPow3r
00:04 < kanzure_> ybit: Part of the problem is that some people on the openmanufacturing list might be looking for an ad hoc solution.
00:05 < kanzure_> i.e., a way to patch the bleeding wounds, the concept of just growing without actually knowing what materials are available and such.
00:05 < ybit> heh, i guess you are referring to the emails concerning buying a bunch of land :P
00:05 < kanzure_> Yes, but no, some people there in general seem to be of the mindset.
00:06 < fenn> gasp, kanzure said a dirty word
00:07 < kanzure_> mind?
00:07 < fenn> "spending resources"
00:08  * kanzure_ looks.
00:08 < willPow3r> g'day ybit, kanzure_ 
00:09 < kanzure_> Oh crap, 'spent'.
00:09 < kanzure_> Yes, I see.
00:09 < kanzure_> Alternative wordings?
00:09 < fenn> allocated for
00:09 < kanzure_> Yes.
00:09 < willPow3r> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-10/ru-bbc101608.php
00:10 < fenn> unless you blow it up in the stratosphere and the vapor is unrecoverable, of course
00:10 < kanzure_> ?
00:10 < kanzure_> oh, the rocket
00:10 < kanzure_> What about energy? You still have to allocate energy, which then goes off as red.
00:10 < fenn> yeah but most of the cost of the rocket is not in the materials, it's all on the ground still (factories, scientists)
00:10 < kanzure_> Dyson sphere solution, but even then; never ending encasings of dyson spheres until you just have a giant Dysonverse, etc. etc..
00:10 < kanzure_> Right.
00:11 < fenn> energy is not such a big deal as far as exploration goes
00:11 < fenn> when you want to lift billions of people and furnishings into orbit is when you have to worry about energy budgets
00:11 < kanzure_> Just blow up the planet.
00:11 < fenn> but i figure by that time you have enough capacity in orbit already that you can expand energy infrastructure indefinitely
00:12 < kanzure_> or crash the moon into it.
00:12 < fenn> i think the dyson sphere is a stupid idea
00:12 < kanzure_> fusion?
00:12 < fenn> just burn up the star material in your own fusion reactors where you need it
00:12 < kanzure_> what's wrong with fusion
00:13 < fenn> instead of making this goofy inefficient system based on gravity confinement
00:13 < fenn> dams and gasoline are both stored solar energy
00:13 < fenn> nevermind
00:14 < kanzure_> Right.
00:18  * nsh frowns
00:18 < kanzure_> nsh: ?
00:19 < nsh> i have two broken metatarsi
00:19 < kanzure_> ?
00:19 < nsh> foot-bones
00:19 < kanzure_> What did you do?
00:19 < nsh> landed :-/
00:19 < kanzure_> Skydiving?
00:20 < nsh> just jumping down from a building
00:20 < nsh> but did not land well
00:38 < ybit> nsh: running from the cops again, finally caught up to you this time ;)
00:39 < ybit> stupid comma slice
00:39 < ybit> anywhos, was getting prepared to fix my server
00:39 < ybit> i *will* find the problem sometime this week
00:40 < ybit> well, guess i should get ready to hit on some nerdy girls
00:40 < ybit> ...if i can find any
00:40  * ybit waves
00:43  * ybit has a 2.63% chance of getting laid tonight
00:43 < ybit> uh, i forgot to factor in alcohol, whoops
00:45  * ybit shuts up
00:46 < nsh> you know how, in quantum mechanics, measuring something changes its value...
00:47 < nsh> i get the feeling that you have have sealed your fate to remain in a pure state this evening by engaging in such statistical speculation
01:20 -!- gene_ is now known as genetherapy
01:32 < kanzure_> Hrm. This worries me.
01:32 < kanzure_> "Please enter your email address and last four digits of your social security number to see your username and password," says the "forgot your pass" form for my internet connection. 
01:33 < kanzure_> I don't think they realize how little tries it will take on 4 digits ..
01:33 < kanzure_> 9999 page requests is a piece of cake.
01:33 < kanzure_> I also know the email addresses of other people in this building.
01:36 -!- brain|food is now known as mindspillage
02:40 < kanzure> Resource conflict.
02:40 < kanzure> Any hints?
04:48 < ybit> well, no ladies tonight, except for a drunken, unattractive girl
04:49 < ybit> there was plenty of alcohol and mary, but where were the women?!
04:49 < ybit> btw, i didn't have any of that, too doped up on modafinil right now
04:53 < bkero> http://learnyouahaskell.com/
04:56 < ybit> bkero: i take it you use xmonad now?
04:56 < bkero> ybit: lol fuck no
04:57 < bkero> We host DARCS at the OSL.  I wouldn't touch that shit with a 10 foot pole.
04:57 < bkero> ESPECIALLY after learning Haskell.
04:57 < ybit> heh
04:57 < ybit> nice tutorial btw, it's colorful and it reminds me of the "casting spells in lisp" tutorial
04:58 < ybit> ...kind of :)
05:04 < bkero> It's got an elephant with glasses.
05:05 < ybit> yeah, that, that's what made me think of a wizard ;)
05:16 < genetherapy> any of you guys going to maker faire?
05:18 < bkero> I went two eyars ago
05:18 < bkero> I want to go
05:18 < bkero> But bay area is a ways away
05:18 < ybit> grr, every girl, attending my school, which i find on facebook, if they happen to have an interest related to anything somewhat nerdy, they have to mention how much they love a dead guy named "jesus"
05:19 < ybit> oh well, i've met a few through biology/chemistry clubbing, Monday should be interesting in this regard
05:21 < ybit> yeah, i'm sure you all don't want to hear this, maybe i will keep this stuff to myself next time
05:21 < bkero> There are a ton of girls in biology.
05:22 < bkero> Tell the jesus ones to fuck off though.
05:22 < ybit> if i see them, i will tell them to die and rot in the ground like everyone else
05:22 < genetherapy> Ah come on man, just use your teleporter
05:22 < genetherapy> you have one right
05:23 < ybit> heh, no i don't, mind teleporting here, so i can use yours :)
05:23 < genetherapy> do those girls ever happen to dispute certain facts?
05:23 < bkero> ybit: Just tell them that you don't need a god to make you feel alright.
05:24 < genetherapy> this is a the fly style teleporter
05:25 < genetherapy> meaning you have to have two booths
05:26 < genetherapy> the chamber is also sufficiently irradiated before hand to insure that no scifi scenarios occur
05:26 < ybit> man, that teleporter sucks
05:27 < ybit> i'll stick to flying :)
05:27 < genetherapy> good choice
05:28 < fenn> ballistic catapults
05:28 < genetherapy> bad choice
05:29 < fenn> tether transport catapults?
05:29 < genetherapy> acceleration needed to do that is many many times that which a human can survive
05:29 < fenn> not true
05:29 < genetherapy> really?
05:29 < fenn> 1.8g is the optimum accel for earth
05:29 < genetherapy> for a ballistic catapult?
05:30 < fenn> for an orbital tether system
05:30 < genetherapy> oh
05:30 < genetherapy> ok
05:30 < genetherapy> maybe
05:30 < fenn> tether reaches down, grabs you, flings into sky, you fall at destination
05:30 < genetherapy> I prefer gravity trams though
05:31 < genetherapy> drill a hole from point a to b line with centering magnets and fill with nothing
05:31 < fenn> parabolic arc right?
05:31 < genetherapy> drop tram at point a, stop it at point b
05:31 < genetherapy> no
05:31 < fenn> "yer doin it wrong"
05:31 < genetherapy> pretty much a straight line
05:32 < fenn> no need for magnets
05:32 < genetherapy> you don't need them
05:33 < genetherapy> it's just so you don't have a chance of hitting the walls
05:33 < genetherapy> http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=696
05:34 < fenn> i dont think that would work on earth.. the whole molten iron core thing
05:34 < genetherapy> it makes more sense on the moon
05:34 < genetherapy> with it's solid core
05:35 < genetherapy> Although I hear the moon is potentially geologically active
05:35 < fenn> i dont see any volcanoes
05:36 < genetherapy> http://moonbaseone.blogspot.com/2006/11/moon-is-geologically-active.html
05:38 < genetherapy> http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070730_gassy_moon.html
05:39 < genetherapy> there aren't volcanoes
05:40 < genetherapy> there are radon gas explosions
05:40 < genetherapy> http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/060324_moonquakes.html
05:40 < genetherapy> and there are moonquakes
05:41 < genetherapy> oh yeah did you see this: http://www.dailytech.com/Single+Neuron+UnParalyzes+Monkeys+in+Test/article13223.htm
05:42 < genetherapy> apparently a monkey can control it's paralyzed arm with a SINGLE NEURON
05:44 < fenn> i'm still trying to figure out what exactly they did
05:46 < fenn> if it's just connecting a wire from the monkey's brain to the monkey's arm, how come we're first hearing about this in 2008?
05:46 < genetherapy> what do you mean?
05:46 < fenn> seems really basic
05:47 < genetherapy> yeah
05:47 < genetherapy> they did this a while back
05:47 < genetherapy> except the monkey controlled a robotic arm
05:48 < genetherapy> now they're connecting to a real arm
05:49 < genetherapy> I am doubtful of the extent of the monkey had over the real arm
05:50 < genetherapy> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/29/science/29brain.html?ref=science
05:52 < fenn> t-slot monkey :)
05:53 < genetherapy> don't you just love modular components?
05:53 < fenn> werent they controlling cruise missiles with cats in the 80's?
05:54 < genetherapy> they were?
05:54 < genetherapy> actually I think that was the 1950s and with pigeons
05:55 < genetherapy> or are you mixing up neuromancer with real life?
05:55 < bkero> lol
05:55 < bkero> You should read accelerando.
05:55 < fenn> i think i read about this in 'secret life of plants'
05:55 < bkero> A based on crabs.
05:55 < bkero> AI based on crabs
05:56 < genetherapy> ai based on squids makes more sense
05:56 < genetherapy> squids have big easy to study neurons
05:56 < fenn> AI based on biology is silly no matter how you slice it
05:57 < genetherapy> oh
05:57 < genetherapy> the secret lives of plants
05:57 < genetherapy> Why is it silly?
05:57 < fenn> its like making planes with flapping wings
05:57 < genetherapy> that does not make sense
05:57 < fenn> and having no theoretical understanding of aerodynamics
05:58 < genetherapy> even pterodactyls didn't fly by flapping
05:58 < genetherapy> flapping makes more sense on small scales
05:58 < fenn> there were lots of attempts at making airplanes with flapping wings
05:58 < genetherapy> yeah
05:59 < genetherapy> flapping doesn't make sense as you scale it up
06:00 < genetherapy> although biologically produced methane ramjets might or H2O2-catalyzer might
06:01 < fenn> you've been reading too much science fiction
06:02 < fenn> http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation history/ornithopters/images/2a.jpg
06:02 < genetherapy> if we ever manage to write a dev environment for life, one of the things I want to make is an animal that breaks the sound barrier
06:02 < genetherapy> this is a biohacking forum
06:02 < fenn> no it isn't
06:02 < genetherapy> link is broken
06:03 < genetherapy> But I know what ornithopters are
06:03 < fenn> http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/ornithopters/images/2a.jpg
06:03 < genetherapy> and have heard about big ones
06:03 < genetherapy> heh steampunk
06:04 < genetherapy> http://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/1831steam.jpg
06:04 < genetherapy> steampunk from the age of steam
06:04 < genetherapy> it's fairly accurate
06:04 < genetherapy> of what today is like
06:05 < genetherapy> except with gas stations instead of coal stations
06:06 < genetherapy> but they did predict fast food
06:06 < fenn> and better fed dogs
06:06 < genetherapy> yeah
06:07 < fenn> what is "infernal defiance" and "dreadful vengeance" supposed to mean?
06:07 < fenn> oh those are their names
06:08 < genetherapy> back in the 1800s they didn't have copyright
06:08 < genetherapy> which means they didn't run out of cool names to use and start using weird words that no one has heard of
06:09 < fenn> i think you mean trademark
06:23 < fenn> cool plane: http://www.bugattiaircraft.com/kalempa.htm
06:26 < fenn> http://www.bugattiaircraft.com/images/cance2.jpg
09:28 < willPower__> lol: http://www.virtualworldlets.net/Shop/ProductsDisplay/VRInterface.php?ID=3
15:58 < willPower__> the military, once again, leading the way in technological development: http://www.vuzix.com/tactical/nextgen_systems_wearable_computing.html
16:00 < willPower__> yay military
16:31 < wrldpc> MIT has been fielding prototypes for this kind of stuff for decades.
17:23  * willPower__ wonders where the fruit of said prototypes/research is...
17:31 < nsh> forbidden and tasty
17:52 < willPower__> my favorite kind
18:03 < elias`> are there any nice heuristics to rename non-descriptive PDF filenames to something that resembles the intended title?
18:13 < ybit> elias`: you could write a program which converts the pdf to postscript, searches for the title tag, and then converts it back to pdf i suppose
18:14 < ybit> or do you need the original .ps file... probably so
18:14 < willPower__> or use the first few lines of pdf2html output
18:14 < elias`> the title metadata?
18:15 < elias`> I found something that does that, unfortunately it's almost useless
18:15 < elias`> only maybe 10% of PDFs have useful title metadata
18:15 < willPower__> do you know how to bash script?
18:15 < elias`> pdf2{html,text} output still needs to be filtered appropriately to get filename-sized output
18:16 < willPower__> thats what awk and sed can be used for
18:16 < willPower__> are you on linux?
18:16 < elias`> yes
18:16 < elias`> just couldn't be bothered to find heuristics for filtering it if someone else has done that already
18:20 < willPower__> or pdfinfo
20:27 < wrldpc> http://infomine.ucr.edu/
21:27 -!- nsh_ is now known as nsh
21:52 < fenn> i'd love to see a screenshot from one of those military goggles.. what is it, icons on a windows desktop or something?
22:16 < ybit> is skdb good for parametric design/manufacturing, hmm
22:16 < bkero> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:EMP_areas.JPG
22:19 < ybit> what parameters will be included in the yaml markup?
22:19 < fenn> lots of them
22:19 < willPow3r> the video unit in the goggles displays 800x600, which is the highest resolution i've seen available
22:19 < willPow3r> but it takes any vga input i think
22:20 < ybit> and if it's not there, suppose i can put it in :)
22:20 < ybit> it = parameters need
22:20 < ybit> needed*
22:23 -!- xp_prg2 is now known as xp_prg
22:28 < ybit> yikes, kanzure, when do you think heybryan.org will be up? wanted to check out http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Skdb
22:29 < xp_prg> is kanzure here?
22:29 < ybit> kanzure_1_ is :)
22:29 < ybit> not sure if that's him or not though
22:29 < ybit> xp_prg: any progress on the ajax interface?
22:30 < xp_prg> working on it now, need to get to my web page at http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/BioBench
22:30 < xp_prg> its not coming up :(
22:32 < ybit> i know his internet access has been limited :
22:32 < ybit> what ajax framework did you decide on?
22:32 < xp_prg> jquery
22:33 < xp_prg> ybit want to assist?
22:34 < ybit> let me get back with you on that :)
22:35 < ybit> maybe later after i have my server setup (hopefully this coming week)
22:39 < xp_prg> ybit we are going to use google app engine, it has a server you can setup in minutes!
22:40 < ybit> interesting
22:41 < ybit> it's still a preview release :|
22:41 < xp_prg> it will work don't worry :>
22:42 < xp_prg> download it if you don't believe me :>
22:42 < ybit> hmm
22:42 < ybit> i kanzure
22:44 < ybit> xp_prg: btw, i wasn't implying that i was going to use my server to develop it, sorry
22:44 < kanzure> The internets are no longer free.
22:44 < kanzure> $290 for an 8 Mbit line for the rest of the semester.
22:44 < xp_prg> dude bummer!
22:44 < kanzure> Anyway, I just got back from Make.
22:44 < ybit> damn
22:44 < xp_prg> Kanzure where was that at?
22:45 < ybit> austin 
22:45 < kanzure> Austin.
22:45  * ybit quits answerng questions directed to kanzure
22:45 < kanzure> It's interesting because when I start talking to people, I blabber on about various projects and so on, and then they say, "Oh, yes, I know. You're Bryan." "Awesome! Who the fuck are you?"
22:45 < kanzure> I was just talking with nublabs/Boston-fablab. Alec Resnick was there. He had mailed me a hard drive a few days ago, so it was awkward when I found out that it was him that I was talking to there. :-/
22:46 < kanzure> Mailed as in, mailed it from Boston.
22:46 < ybit> a hard drive? what, why?
22:46 < kanzure> Data trading ring.
22:46 < ybit> heh
22:46 < kanzure> Fuck. 1500 unread emails.
22:46 < xp_prg> kanzure can I not get back to my project page then>?
22:46 < ybit> you know, there's such thing as encryption, right? :)
22:47 < kanzure> xp_prg: You'll have to give me a few minutes to download all of my email and then I'll wire up the server again.
22:47 < kanzure> I really, really need to know what program I need to use to get the server working as a router for me.
22:49 < kanzure> Hm, another 500 unread emails.
22:51  * drazak needs to get a supscription to nature molbio
22:52 < kanzure> No you don't. I'll give you nature molbio in a zip soon.
22:56 < drazak> I want a physical copy though
22:56 < drazak> I kinda want biochem too
22:56 < drazak> :S
22:57  * nsh blinks
22:57 < nsh> a book, i can understand
22:57 < nsh> but why would you want to read journal articles on tree?
22:57 < drazak> kanzure: eh, I'll take a zip though
22:57 < drazak> nsh: because... I'm weird?
22:58 < drazak> I don't spend enough time at a computer anymore to read stuff like that on it
22:58 < nsh> fair enough
23:00  * nsh nods
23:00 < nsh> e-ink readers will be pretty prevailant in the next few years, hopefully
23:01 < kanzure> from Nathan Cravens - 'By building mathematical models of its own employees, IBM aims to improve productivity and automate management' - http://thenumerati.net/index.cfm?postID=76
23:01 < drazak> I wrote down the specs for one I'd want to make/design
23:01 < drazak> no thicker than 3/8"s though
23:02 < drazak> lcd on the front, metal case, touch screen, sd card and wireless
23:08 < fenn> http://www.positron.org/projects/A51/
23:10 < nsh> WANT
23:11 < kanzure> Internet archive now has February of heybryan.
23:12 < kanzure> "Haren says the efforts under way at places like IBM will not only break down each worker into sets of skills and knowledge. The same systems will also divide their days and weeks into small periods of time--hours, half-hours, eventually even minutes."
23:12 < kanzure> "At the same time, the jobs that have to be done, whether it's building a software program or designing an airliner, are also broken down into tiny steps. In this sense, Haren might as well be describing the industrial engineering that led to assembly lines a century ago."
23:12 < kanzure> "Big jobs are parsed into thousands of tasks and divided among many workers. But the work Haren is discussing is not done by hand, hydraulic presses, or even robots. It flows from the brain. The labor is defined by knowledge and ideas. As he sees it, that expertise will  be tapped minute by minute across the world."
23:12 < kanzure> Interesting formulation of the same issues. I wouldn't have said it quite like that, but whatever.
23:13 < fenn> yay manna
23:13 < kanzure> ?
23:13 < fenn> marshallbrain.com
23:13  * nsh thnks of ted nelson
23:13 < kanzure> Poor Ted.
23:14 < nsh> mm
23:14 < kanzure> http://onlinemetals.com/ <- I need to email these guys about setting up the automated ordering and quoting services. They're excited about these ideas.
23:14 < kanzure> fenn: I talked with the bug guys :-) But I'm not sure what I said.
23:14 < fenn> bug guys?
23:15 < kanzure> uhm
23:15 < kanzure> they were on some webtv thing
23:15 < kanzure> they were doing plug-and-play robotics
23:15 < kanzure> reconfigurable parts.
23:15 < fenn> the reconfigurable personal gadget guys?
23:15 < fenn> ok
23:15 < kanzure> yes
23:15 < kanzure> weren't they bug-something?
23:15 < fenn> bug labs
23:15 < nsh> hmm
23:29 < kanzure> from Tony's end: "GOTO http://psoup.math.wisc.edu/mcell/mjcell/mjcell.html Start MJCell -- it selects Brian's Brain by default, B being early in the alphabet. A CA in which nearly everything persistent is moving at C and it is the exceptions that are interesting."
23:38 < fenn> they're missing the fact that hydraulic presses and robots don't try to game the system
23:39 < ybit> heh, i thought of manna too when reading on the ibm system
23:51 < kanzure> Argh. Too much to do, not enough time to write a proper todo list.
23:51 -!- splicer_ is now known as splicer
23:53 < kanzure> http://mindbroker.de/wiki/SingularityUniversity
23:53 < kanzure> http://singularityu.org/