--- Day changed Fri Oct 31 2008
00:11 < kanzure_> So I've lost an ssh key on the dead laptop. Any ideas?
00:19 < xp_prg> kanzure_ is it possible to send hy3s a libsbml file or I guess it has to be a netcdf file?
00:21 < kanzure_> Haven't checked.
00:21 < xp_prg> ya if you were going to use hy3s as a simulator and you wanted a libsbml file, I don't think that would have worked
00:25 < kanzure_> That's not what I was going to do.
00:26 < xp_prg> what were you going to do?
00:27 < kanzure_> synbioss
00:28 < kanzure_> (and all of the other things)
00:29 < xp_prg> synbioss uses netcdf though
00:30 < kanzure_> No.
00:30 < xp_prg> what does it use?
00:30 < kanzure_> Well, it might. But it definitely uses sbml.
00:30 < kanzure_> See the "IMPORT SBML" line in the python files.
00:31 < xp_prg> well what is the output of the designer, I thought it was an nc file which is a netcdf file?
00:31 < kanzure_> There are two options for the 'designer' output: SBML and NetCDF/nc.
00:31 < xp_prg> oh ok
04:01 < kanzure_> Good "DIY hydrophone" stuff on the net.
04:29 < gene_> so who here can help me with pointers in C?
04:33 < kanzure_> What do you need help with in particular?
04:33 < kanzure_> Whole Brain Emulation Roadmap http://www.fhi.ox.ac.uk/updates.html
04:36 < kanzure_> https://www.scitoyscatalog.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SC&Category_Code=R
04:36 < kanzure_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Crystal_oscillator_4MHz.jpg
04:36 < kanzure_> http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-Circuits/parallelosc.htm
05:02 < ybit> contextfreeart reminds me of processing.js
05:04 < ybit> ..kind of :)
07:16 < percent_> fags
07:24 < percent_> fucking fags
07:24 -!- percent_ changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: fags
07:29 -!- percent_ is now known as jihaaaaaad
07:45 < UtopiahGHML> kanzure_: you configure your IRC client to log the channels you want to log in 1 file, you make a script that removes everything but links, you inverse it and keep only the last N ones, you convert it to HTML and you store the result in your httpd content folder.
07:49 < jihaaaaaad> Uh
07:49 < jihaaaaaad> Can we not do that in the IRC channel we routinely discuss what might be construed as bioterrorism in?
07:49 < jihaaaaaad> What is the open source obsession with openness? 
07:50 < jihaaaaaad> must log and publicize all things, even my browser history!
07:50 < jihaaaaaad> Does that really help anyone?
07:50 < jihaaaaaad> does it just show how gay you are
07:50 < jihaaaaaad> yes
07:50 < jihaaaaaad> yes it does
07:51 < UtopiahGHML> jihaaaaaad: I said his httpd rep so it doesn't have to be public, he already has the log anyway
07:51 < jihaaaaaad> Okay, let's look at ourselves for a moment here
07:51 < jihaaaaaad> We like to fuck with biological things
07:51 < jihaaaaaad> you could say we hack them
07:51 < jihaaaaaad> therefore
07:51 < jihaaaaaad> we are biohackers
07:51 < jihaaaaaad> And therefore, logging the channel is a dumb idea
07:52 < UtopiahGHML> I missed to see the link of direct consequence there
07:52 < jihaaaaaad> Okay
07:52 < UtopiahGHML> we are already logging the channel anyway
07:52 < jihaaaaaad> Some dong goes and creates some superbacteria
07:53 < jihaaaaaad> they learn he did he using info he found on the internet
07:53 < UtopiahGHML> our theoretical advance isn't suppose to be juridic but technological anyway so I don't see what difference it makes.
07:53 < jihaaaaaad> Guess who's getting a knock at their doors?
07:53 < jihaaaaaad> That's right
07:53 < jihaaaaaad> you fuckers
07:53 < jihaaaaaad> i don't know you
07:53 < UtopiahGHML> who do you think you know?
07:54 < jihaaaaaad> This channel has a a few serious issues
07:54 < jihaaaaaad> First of all, you're all too goddamn professional. 
07:54 < UtopiahGHML> what do you propose?
07:54 < UtopiahGHML> make direct proposition that will make us be more efficient, Im sure most will follow.
07:54 < jihaaaaaad> Second of all, this is a leaderless clusterfuck of good ideas that go nowhere for lack of encouragement or motivation
07:55 < jihaaaaaad> third
07:55 < jihaaaaaad> you are all fucking weenies 
07:55 < UtopiahGHML> stop the critics
07:55 < UtopiahGHML> make proposals
07:55 < jihaaaaaad> Are you afraid to misbehave? 
07:55 < jihaaaaaad> Okay
07:55 < jihaaaaaad> Misbehave
07:55 < jihaaaaaad> Act out.
07:55 < jihaaaaaad> You're a hacker, act like one.
07:55 < jihaaaaaad> you do ILLEGAL THINGS
07:55 < jihaaaaaad> which are BAD AND WRONG
07:55 < UtopiahGHML> didn't see any proposal so far, just whining.
07:55 < jihaaaaaad> accept that and embrace it.
07:55 < jihaaaaaad> okay
07:55 < UtopiahGHML> (it's true that no logging is required to archive that...)
07:56 < jihaaaaaad> i propose that we establish the basic tenets of privacy
07:56 < jihaaaaaad> 1) No logging. Logging = kick.
07:56 < UtopiahGHML> go on
07:56 < jihaaaaaad> 2) We don't invite people who offer us nothing. Not that anyone wants to join, anyway.
07:57 < jihaaaaaad> 3) Be suspicious. Remember, what we're doing here is worse than any exploit.
07:57 < jihaaaaaad> We may not be actual terrorists, but it would be SO easy to vilify us.
07:58 < UtopiahGHML> ok, how do you suggest to implement those 1+2+3 rules today?
07:58 < jihaaaaaad> 4) We need to communicate and collaborate. We should all use similar bioinformatics software. We should describe sequences in the same language.
07:58 < jihaaaaaad> 5) We need to get a mail ring going. Anonymous PO boxes, so when one idiot creates e-glow-li, he can share it with you other douchebags.
07:59 < jihaaaaaad> 6) We need to encourage people to, among us all, have a reasonably nice testing suite. I, for example, have a scanning electron microscope and shit.
07:59 < jihaaaaaad> Build an STM. Build an incubator. Etc.
07:59 < jihaaaaaad> also
07:59 < jihaaaaaad> we need an op
08:00 < jihaaaaaad> Just one or two.
08:00 < UtopiahGHML> what for, how do you propose to select them?
08:01 < jihaaaaaad> To kick loggers, to kick feds (should they show up), and they should be selected for their presence and their tendency to make good judgements.
08:01 < jihaaaaaad> Also, technical ability.
08:02 < jihaaaaaad> kanzure, being a room founder, should be an op
08:02 < jihaaaaaad> fenn has his head on straight
08:03 < UtopiahGHML> do you also want to make it an institution? eventually have funding?
08:03 < jihaaaaaad> No, fuck no
08:03 < jihaaaaaad> This needs to go so far underground we don't see daylight\\
08:03 < jihaaaaaad> Stop thinking like a corporate professional.
08:03 < UtopiahGHML> and why do you think so?
08:03 < jihaaaaaad> We can accomplish more as a little insular society than as an institution in the public eye.
08:04 < jihaaaaaad> If we are held responsible for what we say and do, there's no limit to the sort of things we will never accomplish.
08:04 < jihaaaaaad> We need to answer to our OWN moral code.
08:04 < UtopiahGHML> so why are you trying to impose your view on others?
08:04 < jihaaaaaad> Do you need a corporate handbook to tell you not to create some terrible plague?
08:04 < jihaaaaaad> I sure don't.
08:05 < UtopiahGHML> but you want rules
08:05 < jihaaaaaad> I want OUR rules, not everyone else's.
08:05 < UtopiahGHML> you think an institution only does what is written on paper?
08:05 < jihaaaaaad> I also want it to be known that all I am currently stating mustn't be construed to mean that we should give up our freedom of speech
08:05 < jihaaaaaad> on the contrary, i think such a thing should be protected
08:06 < jihaaaaaad> UtopiahGHML: I think bureaucracy is the main enemy of scientific progress. 
08:07 < UtopiahGHML> so why don't you start our manifesto/declaration on a wiki and we would all refine it?
08:07 < jihaaaaaad> Because you're still thinking "open, big, crowdsourcing".
08:07 < jihaaaaaad> We could just write a text file and pass it about.
08:07 < UtopiahGHML> I like it when you tell me how Im thinking or doing anything :)
08:07 < jihaaaaaad> no reason to show the universe
08:08 < jihaaaaaad> If you truly care about free and open software, and the internet, you'll recognize we suffer from signal to noise ratio
08:08 < UtopiahGHML> I don't see any reason why an http wiki or not is less public than a text file...
08:08 < jihaaaaaad> a very poor one
08:08 < jihaaaaaad> It's MORE public
08:08 < jihaaaaaad> Okay, on the internet, there are certain things we see that matter to us and nobody else, right?
08:08 < UtopiahGHML> well you could just encode your file and pass it on FreeNet if you are such a fan of secrecy
08:09 < jihaaaaaad> Or we could just pass it around here
08:09 < UtopiahGHML> but let me ask you sth, what do you think is more important :
08:09 < UtopiahGHML> our ability to collaborate faster or our ability to stay secret?
08:09 < jihaaaaaad> Both are very important, but I think the collaboration, for all our free and open fancy tools, doesn't seem to happen much
08:10 < jihaaaaaad> In the olden days, people collaborated with words.
08:10 < jihaaaaaad> "I'll build a PCR machine. Why don't you try an incubator?"
08:10 < jihaaaaaad> Our ability to stay secret is not YET important.
08:10 < jihaaaaaad> It will eventually become very critical.
08:10 < UtopiahGHML> have you seen the quantity of information on the topic that you consider secret that are *already* open and accessible to anyone?
08:11 < jihaaaaaad> Because we WILL get knocks on our doors if we stay above ground.
08:11 < jihaaaaaad> of course
08:11 < jihaaaaaad> but our activities don't need to be open and accessible 
08:11 < jihaaaaaad> Who wants to know what we're doing? Why?
08:11 < jihaaaaaad> Do you realize how many microbiologists have died in the last ten years in fishy circumstances? 
08:11 < jihaaaaaad> Be scared. Be paranoid. 
08:12 < jihaaaaaad> act like hackers, not like corporate schmoes 
08:12 < UtopiahGHML> right, you totally have a bounty over your head
08:12 < jihaaaaaad> You want that?
08:12 < UtopiahGHML> the only security is the rapidity to innovate.
08:12 < jihaaaaaad> no
08:12 < UtopiahGHML> it wasn't a question.
08:12 < jihaaaaaad> the only security is to not get noticed
08:12 < jihaaaaaad> We need to watch our backs and stop pretending we're legit
08:12 < jihaaaaaad> because we're the only ones pretending we are
08:13 < UtopiahGHML> you do illegit activity all day long, copyright infrigment 24/7 even when you don't "hack" or purpose
08:13 < UtopiahGHML> s/or purpose/on purpose/
08:13 < UtopiahGHML> so relax
08:13 < jihaaaaaad> And when we have fucked-over ecoli growing, so do you
08:13 < jihaaaaaad> Basically
08:13 < UtopiahGHML> just go faster
08:13 < jihaaaaaad> No matter how free and open and accessible we are
08:14 < jihaaaaaad> we need to realize that those ideals have a place
08:14 < jihaaaaaad> And it's not here
08:14 < UtopiahGHML> build the ideal place and people will follow you there.
08:14 < UtopiahGHML> share the tools, share the method
08:14 < UtopiahGHML> if there is value, people shall follow.
08:15 < jihaaaaaad> Well, the people are here, and the tools on the drawing board
08:15 < jihaaaaaad> You simply need leadership and to quit masturbating while thinking about the coming singularity and crowdsourcing and how free and accessible your mom is
08:16 < UtopiahGHML> you think you are a leader?
08:16 < jihaaaaaad> No, but i don't see anyone else ready to step up
08:16 < UtopiahGHML> so what do you suggest?
08:17 < jihaaaaaad> Focus, secrecy, and progress.
08:17 < UtopiahGHML> wait, Im writting it down.
08:17 < UtopiahGHML> Thanks a lot.
08:19 < jihaaaaaad> anyway
08:19 < jihaaaaaad> i'm going to bed
08:19 < jihaaaaaad> but goddammit i see potential among you weenies
08:19 < jihaaaaaad> it's not often a group of scientists with the DIY mentality and the hacker mindset get together to act like depraved lunatics
08:19 < jihaaaaaad> So, all we have to do is establish the DIY mentality, the hacker mindset, and the depravity 
08:20 < jihaaaaaad> I WILL MAKE HEROES OUT OF YOU WEENIES
08:20 < UtopiahGHML> have sweet dreams about it.
08:20 < jihaaaaaad> Remember to act poorly.
08:20 < jihaaaaaad> break something
08:20 < UtopiahGHML> Ill totally follow your qualitry advices
08:21 < UtopiahGHML> "09:17 < jihaaaaaad> Focus, secrecy, and progress."
08:21 < jihaaaaaad> all i'm encouraging is that we select our own ideals and moral postulations
08:22 < jihaaaaaad> instead of following the white hat, open source, we're-legit machine
08:22 < jihaaaaaad> as for making money
08:22 < jihaaaaaad> Perhaps, one day, we can find some way to be financially productive
08:22 < UtopiahGHML> either that or change the system, let's guess which on is easier...
09:04 < splicer> jihaaaaad has some valid points, there is by necessity an amount of political correctness in say diybio that makes it go nowhere.. like the e-coli replacement debate there. 
09:04 < splicer> I have a feeling a lot of people feel that
09:05 < splicer> time to sleep
09:52 < fenn> stupid black cracker
09:57 < fenn> paranoia and fear never goes anywhere.. i've tried it
09:57 < fenn> however, NOT acting like a wingnut has plenty of advantages
10:42 < fenn> where i grew up, "cracker" meant "whitey"
10:42 < fenn> in my adopted culture, "hacker" means "magician"
11:45 < kanzure_> Splicer: No, that's bullshit.
11:45 < kanzure_> There's no "political correctness" physically holding people back. They are simply lazy.
11:58 < kanzure_> fenn: If you get over the lazycopter-factor, go make the 1 MHz ultrasound circuit, find a rat, and experiment. Preferably with a variable capacitor so that you can tune it down to 10 kHz to hear if it actually works.
12:01 < fenn> i have some chickens, what sort of experiment?
12:01 < fenn> and 1MHz is pretty damn high
12:02 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/Ultrasound_brain.pdf
12:02 < kanzure_> Apparently ultrasound stimulates the brain .. or human hands.
12:02 < kanzure_> "Place ultrasound next to chicken head. Activate. Observer wild behavior."
12:03 < kanzure_> *Observe
12:03 < fenn> hmmm
12:03  * kanzure_ wouldn't know what abnormal chicken behavior is
12:03 < kanzure_> "Great mambo chicken and the transhuman condition"
12:03 < fenn> "Cassondra Majestic" nice name
12:03 < kanzure_> ?
12:03 < fenn> one of the authors
12:03 < kanzure_> on the paper?
12:04 < kanzure_> hrm, 260k voters in the county. 43% of the registered voters.
12:04 < kanzure_> that's a hell of a turnout. hrm.
12:04 < fenn> they voted already?
12:04 < kanzure_> yes
12:06 < kanzure_> fenn: Shouldn't a crystal oscillator + speaker picked up at radiohsack do the trick?
12:06 < kanzure_> is  1 MHz still too high?
12:08 < fenn> it's a question of the bandwidth of the ultrasound transducer
12:08 < kanzure_> scuse me?
12:08 < fenn> most ultrasound is around 20-100kHz
12:08 < kanzure_> maradydd told me it's just an oscillating crystal + speaker
12:09 < kanzure_> and a few capacitors/inductors
14:12 < wrldpc> Jihad, you're unstable.
14:13 < wrldpc> Has anyone seen this Pake lecture Mac posted to DIYBio?  http://www.parc.com/cms/get_article.php?id=792
15:16 < wrldpc_> http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/10/air-forces-amne.html
15:28 < kanzure__> Interesting, I've been seeing an increasing rate in parc.com links showing up over the past three days.
15:30 < kanzure__> Anywho, anyone remember how to make php/perl-cgi/python 'stream' HTML back to the browser?
15:32 < kanzure__> http://www.mail-archive.com/cgiapp@lists.erlbaum.net/msg02660.html <- What an unholy large jpg.
15:33 < kanzure__> Ah. Content-type: application/octet-stream
15:37 < fenn> i think you just dont send the </html> 
15:38 < fenn> check out the nasa bluemarble site for unholy large jpeg's
15:40 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/world.200408.3x21600x10800.jpg
15:41 < fenn> (20MB)
15:44 < bkero> That's a pretty small one.
15:44 < bkero> I have one that's around 1200MB
15:46 < fenn> yeah i thought it was bigger than that
15:57 < UtopiahGHML> Concentration of Web users' online information behaviour http://informationr.net/ir/12-4/paper324.html
15:58 < kanzure__> It is well known that the totality of web user behavior can be summed up by a very complex mathematical equation that, unfortunately, I do not have time to go into here.
15:59 < kanzure__> However, what I can tell is that the equation was derived during a psychadelic session while rocking out to the fifth moon sequence in Dark Side. The sum totality of all online behavior is definitively, and ultimately, directly proportional to /b/.
16:00 < kanzure__> Gah, running ls on a 755,000-file dir is a bad idea.
16:47 < jihaaaaaad> hanging out with this nick on #guns is awesome
17:18 < fenn> this blows dancing qrio out of the water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUH3m6ZyW-g
17:20 < faceface> honey pot nick?
17:20 < faceface> anyone used gbrowse?
17:20 < fenn> what's gbrowse
17:20 < faceface> its a pain in the assets
17:20 < faceface> http://gmod.org/wiki/GBrowse
17:21 < faceface> The Generic Genome Browser is a combination of database and interactive Web page for manipulating and displaying annotations on genomes.
17:21 < faceface> first I can't make it install, now I can't make it load my data, now I can't make it display my data
17:23 < xp_prg2> hi all!
17:24 < xp_prg2> I ran my first synbioss simulation that ppk created!
18:26 < xp_prg2> kanzure__ I found the python code that creates the sbml file in synbioss
18:46 < kanzure__> xp_prg2: Did you?
18:47 < xp_prg2> yup
18:47 < kanzure__> 35 mL of neochloris oleoabundans @ 10kRPM, 15 to 24 deg celsius, for 15 minutes produced a 1.5 mm diameter (scrapable) splotch on the wall tubing.
18:48 < kanzure__> xp_prg2: How about instead of telling me, you show me?
18:48 < xp_prg2> I thought you didn't want my help anymore?
18:50 -!- xp_prg2 is now known as xp_prbg
18:50 -!- xp_prbg is now known as xp_prg
18:53 < xp_prg> I have also found where it makes the ncdf file
19:08 < kanzure__> xp_prg: So are you going to show me or not?
19:08 < kanzure__> Straight up.
19:09 < xp_prg> I am confused though, I thought you said you didn't want anymore of my help that I was too frustrating to work with or help
19:28 < kanzure__> xp_prg: Because you weren't doing the work. If you want to bring me relevant information, like the file names where you supposedly found the information, then that's relevant. Flash interfaces to nothing, are not relevant.
19:31 < xp_prg> kanzure__ I want you to help me more with understanding things in exchange for my help with python etc..., is that a deal?
19:31 < xp_prg> straight up
20:26 < kanzure__> I know python. I'll help you understand things, but keep it separated from the work.
20:28 < xp_prg> what do you mean keep it separated from the work, I am trying to understand things to do the work and that is involved with the work, can you clarify?
20:39 -!- xp_prg is now known as xp_lunch
21:14 -!- Nofaris is now known as Nofairs
21:19 -!- jihaaaaaad is now known as jihAAAAAAAAd
21:21 -!- xp_lunch is now known as xp_prg
21:22 < xp_prg> kanzure__ can you help me to understand a simple model that I would plug into hy3s?
21:59 < willPow3r> float(.005*sin(2*%pi/3)^2)
21:59 < willPow3r> wrong wind ow
22:34 < UtopiahGHML> fenn: thank you for the "frenchisms" corrections :D
23:22 < kanzure_> xp_prg: The work was simple :( not all this flash stuff.
23:23 < kanzure_> Anyway, stop asking to ask and just ask. 
23:30 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/media/
23:57 < kanzure_> moc or cmus?