--- Day changed Mon Nov 03 2008
00:28 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-11-02.png
00:29 < kanzure_> Ok. Not quite what I was talking about.
00:49 < kanzure_> What shape has 12 faces but only 20 points?
02:35 -!- draz|bread is now known as drazak
02:35 < kanzure_> Hm. That's odd. In some medical procedures they just drill straight into the skull through the scalp without pealing it back. 
03:28 < kanzure_> Gah, wasn't capturing the return variable of my Super Special Function and have been wondering what's so wrong with it for the past, oh, hour.
03:39 < kanzure_> Aw. But now I have to recalculate the meshing for subtractive manipulations. Actually, the python script isn't really that great with the rendering because of its instance on quads or something. Up close things start getting blitted on top of each other when they shouldn't be, etc.
03:41 < kanzure_> s/instance/insistence/
03:51 < kanzure_> I think Meredith has taken my role on diybio.
04:01 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-11-02_supermetal.png
04:02 < kanzure_> Maybe I should implement some other shape, huh?
04:24 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-11-02_supermetal_2.png
05:35 < procto> kanzure_: what lib are you using for the 3d?
05:35 < kanzure_> pygame apparently
05:35 < kanzure_> probably has an opengl backend
05:36 < procto> hehe, that's exactly what I'm using, too
05:36  * procto is prototyping a ZUI
05:37 < kanzure_> Zeus User Interface?
05:37 < procto> zooming
05:37 < kanzure_> Have you tried Xanadu's zooming features?
05:37 < procto> there are nearly no good zui's that aren't prototypes
05:37 < procto> I think so
05:37 < procto> it's been years since I checked it out
05:37 < kanzure_> Besides Xanadu, there was one other interface I once used that was zooming.
05:38 < kanzure_> This was a typing game of some sort or another.
05:38 < kanzure_> Hrm, actually, it was a pointing-typing game.
05:38 < kanzure_> You would point at the letters popping up on the screen and construct a word.
05:38 < procto> basically, I'm creating a general framework for distributing objects on a visual field
05:39 < kanzure_> of course, they were all arranged in the same pattern as they came up on the screen
05:39 < procto> and providing 2.5 dimensions of navigation based on mereological relationships
05:39 < kanzure_> mereological?
05:39 < procto> uhm... what things are contained in other things
05:40 < procto> think of it as a counterpart to ontology
05:40 < procto> ontology is what things there are, mereology is how they are arranged.
05:41 < kanzure_> I've been wanting a zooming interface to grammatical sentence constructions and narrative support.
05:41 < kanzure_> or zooming for gdmap :)
05:41 < procto> I wrote a treemap tool for morgan stanely a few months back
05:41 < kanzure_> for who?
05:42 < procto> morgan stanely prime brokerage
05:44 < procto> that sorta stuff is big in financials
05:44 < kanzure_> Huh.
05:44 < procto> though they are generally conservative
05:45 < procto> anything that lets them process more data
05:45 < kanzure_> procto: What protocols are they using these days for financial information transfer?
05:46 < procto> hahaha oh god
05:46 < procto> so many different ones
05:46 < kanzure_> FIX? EDI?
05:46 < procto> god no EDI
05:46 < kanzure_> AS2?
05:46 < procto> I want everyone who does EDI to die
05:46 < kanzure_> Well, then what are they up to?
05:46 < kanzure_> ebXML?
05:47 < procto> I dealth with a whole bunch of proprietary protocols
05:47 < procto> and also things like RIXML
05:47 < kanzure_> Hmph.
05:47 < kanzure_> RIXML? That's a new one for me.
05:47 < procto> http://rixml.org/
05:48 < procto> but yeah, the bigger the firm, the more proprietary "standards" they use
05:49 < kanzure_> procto: You've heard me ranting about wanting to wire up to querying protocols for price quoting and so on with various companies/suppliers, yes?
05:49 < procto> no
05:49 < kanzure_> well that's basically it heh'
05:49 < procto> I ma really really glad to not have to deal with those
05:50 < procto> standards like FIX and the various EDI ones make me want to cry
05:50 < kanzure_> I'm working on linking up my design stuff to product ordering stuff
05:50 < kanzure_> http://dhcp-84-253.me.utexas.edu/graph/graph-easy/ <-- this is translated into a specific design (of implementations), and then various materials and instructions, then *click*
05:51 < procto> I recommend looking to see if there's an RDF-based standard. Then you can easily work up some GRDDL definitions and the like
05:51 < kanzure_> Mmm. I've been looking around for a while. The big issue is that even if companies have all of this implemented, it's all "closed" in that they want businesses of their size to strike up a deal before interfacing with the internet.
05:51 < kanzure_> *over the net
05:53 < kanzure_> Hi ybit.
05:53 < procto> right
05:53 < procto> so you want a robust ontology
05:53 < kanzure_> Nope.
05:54 < procto> and then an interface layer that lets you adapt to whatever standard a given company uses
05:54 < kanzure_> ebXML allows for "ontology discovering" to some extent.
05:54 < procto> because mostly they won't give you the time of day
05:54 < ybit> oi kanzure_
05:54 < kanzure_> yeah, they have CPP/CPA for discovering what WSDL services they offer
05:54 < kanzure_> searchda.com or something, uh, a WSDL search engine
05:54 < kanzure_> searchdea?
05:54 < kanzure_> seekda?
05:57 < kanzure_> Seekda. Anyway.
05:57 < kanzure_> procto: There's a chance that onlinemetals.com is willing to let me work my magic on their servers. 
06:25 < gene_> hey kanzure you there?
06:37 < gene_> lol guess not
09:15 < UtopiahGHML> http://www.hplusmagazine.com/
09:24 < UtopiahGHML> faceface : what about proposing the degree to http://www.peer2peeruniversity.org/ ?
10:09 < willPow3r> windows 7 is on usenet. /me downloads.
10:09 < UtopiahGHML> what for
10:10 < willPow3r> because i have a serious infection on my main winblowz machine and need to do a reinstall anyway
10:10 < willPow3r> and it seems vista was an intermediate upgrade anyway, since 7 is looking to be a major upgrade
10:10 < UtopiahGHML> ok
10:11 < UtopiahGHML> what are the new functionnalities?
10:12 < willPow3r> its a lot more internet-based
10:12 < UtopiahGHML> it has a browser?
10:13 < willPow3r> heh  i woudn't call IE a browser
10:13 < UtopiahGHML> so what does it mean to be more "internet-based"?
10:13 < willPow3r> i mean like more network-focused
10:13 < willPow3r> like file synch, live services, etc
10:13 < willPow3r> i used to be pretty skeptical of it all
10:14 < willPow3r> but to be honest, it's looking like its a lot more useful than it once was
10:15 < willPow3r> paint got an upgrade too.
10:17 < UtopiahGHML> right
10:17 < UtopiahGHML> I think Ill just stick to Firefox for now
10:28 < willPow3r> even my gf uses firefox. so you don't have to be some total comp geek to use it
10:32 < UtopiahGHML> that's my FF http://lh4.ggpht.com/_PLYWU2YPXG0/SQ2pZTbFLzI/AAAAAAAABss/nnoMAD6rg90/s720/current_browsing.JPG
10:35 < willPow3r> pretty elaboratre
10:35 < willPow3r> elaborate*
10:35 < willPow3r> seedea looks neat, i'll have to look into that
10:36 < willPow3r> i figured you'd be using linux though
10:36 < UtopiahGHML> well I should since Im using only FOSS but last time I had a problem with multi-head display so ... Im just using XP now
10:38 < willPow3r> with ubuntu 7.10 its pretty straightforward.
10:38 < UtopiahGHML> I have a slackware installed but... rebooting outch, I already have difficulties restarting FF so :-x
10:39 < UtopiahGHML> I should work on a cross system ~ folder though, if possible a remote one to mount
10:39 < UtopiahGHML> so that basically I could use Linux/Windows/PenDriveboot from anywhere and still have my tools ready.
10:40 < willPow3r> have you tried the IFS drives program for windows that lets you mount linux shares?
10:40 < willPow3r> or linux partitions
10:41 < willPow3r> also, in linux, ntfs-3g can mount ntfs partitions no problem, read & write fully supported
10:41 < UtopiahGHML> I used it a while ago but now, now, if I have to spend some time on tweaking and configuring, it would be to not be HD dependant anymore.
10:42 < UtopiahGHML> (using my online software more and more is already going in that direction)
10:44 < willPow3r> yeah. i had a fantastic idea to help people move their lives more online, but a friend wouldn't help implement it
10:44 < UtopiahGHML> I like fantastic ideas, please tell me more :)
10:55 < fenn> it's simple, we simply remove your brain from your head, attach electrodes, and set it in a little jar on a rack in some data center
10:58 < UtopiahGHML> can't we just upload the circuitery?
10:59 < marainein> put the brain inside an humanlike robot instead...that would upset less people
11:01 < UtopiahGHML> a ghost in the shell
11:01 < marainein> of course the life support for the brain thing might not be easy...afaik we can't even make a decent artificial heart
11:07 < fenn> idea from http://marshallbrain.com/discard1.htm
11:09 < fenn> and of course robocop :)
11:10 < marainein> i haven't finished reading it
11:10 < marainein> but how will these posthumans have sex?
11:11 < fenn> "quite well, thank you" :)
11:12 < UtopiahGHML> marainein: what do you mean?
11:18 < marainein> i was assuming they'd be put into robot bodies...but that's not what's being proposed
11:18 < marainein> "The Brain Storage Facility will throw your biological body in an incinerator. You will discard your biological body quite happily, and it will not seem like a loss at all. It will be a relief."
11:18 < UtopiahGHML> and what's the problem with sex then?
11:18 < marainein> so it will be VR all the way
11:19 < marainein> none, really
11:19 < marainein> except that there will have to be robots anyway
11:19 < marainein> to take car of things in the real world
11:19 < UtopiahGHML> you know why you want and like sex?
11:19 < fenn> you experience reality through a narrow slice of spinal cord and optic nerves anyway
11:19 < UtopiahGHML> hormons and culture.
11:19 < UtopiahGHML> without hormons from your old biological body
11:19 < marainein> and the olfactory system, i bet
11:20 < fenn> it's not like it's less real because it's coming from a camera a thousand miles away instead of three inches
11:20 < UtopiahGHML> culture will be the only drive thus being VR or not, no problem 
11:21 < marainein> hmm...no hormones except what comes out of the brain
11:21 < fenn> smokers would never be able to do it :)
11:21 < marainein> no, i think any life support system for the brain would include them, at least as an option
11:21 < fenn> adrenaline addicts and dont even know it
11:22 < UtopiahGHML> opoids
11:23 < UtopiahGHML> btw if anybody knows a good study that would correlate opoid/opioid derivatives or naturaly generated to creativity, Id be curious to read it
11:24 < UtopiahGHML> (maybe endorphins, enkephalins, dynorphins, and endomorphins)
11:26 < UtopiahGHML> (eventually sth on "creativity orgasms" and the release of endogenous opioid and their potential addictions)
11:26 < fenn> anyone read "i will fear no evil"?
11:26 < UtopiahGHML> nop
11:32 < UtopiahGHML> "This is a brain function that is is helped along by an increase in endorphin levels and an increase in blood flow to the brain." right but I want papers on this, not just chit-chat 
11:32 < nsh> hm
11:33 < faceface> UtopiahGHML, papers on what topic again?
11:34 < UtopiahGHML> possible correlation between endorphin (endogenous opioid) and creativity
11:34 < UtopiahGHML> (and consequently a possible addiction to creative activities)
11:35 < faceface> ty
11:35 < fenn> the addictionization of all activities
11:35 < fenn> i'm addicted to light, water, food, breathing...
11:36 < marainein> sleep
11:36 < faceface> Jazz and substance abuse: road to creative genius or pathway to premature death. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17964650?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
11:36 < UtopiahGHML> but I don't think need higher doses 
11:36  * nsh frowns at UtopiahGHML
11:36 < marainein> i'd really like to get rid of sleep
11:37 < fenn> i enjoy dreaming, but 12 hours a day is too much
11:37 < marainein> i don't mind the occasional dream, but being unconscious disturbs me
11:38 < UtopiahGHML> faceface: update the wiki page btw
11:39 < UtopiahGHML> s/update/updated/ sry
11:39 < faceface> The impact of electronic media on mental and somatic children's health ?
11:39 < faceface> UtopiahGHML, cool
11:39 < faceface> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17869577
11:39 < nsh> marainein, the vast majority of you is unconscious
11:39 < faceface> Cyber-sex as twilight zone between virtual reality and virtual fantasy: creative play space or destructive addiction?
11:59 < willPow3r> faceface, creative addiction
12:00 < faceface> willPow3r, pubmed
12:05 < willPow3r> indeed it is
12:08 < faceface> I heard a proposal that we should direct all our efforts into intelligence enhancing drugs (for the feedback effect).
12:12 < willPow3r> the unfortunate part of that proposal is that we wont know if its a good idea or not until we try it
12:12 < willPow3r> on a very large scale
12:13 < kanzure_> Can we claim a work as copyrighted if we have its md5 hash?
12:13 < kanzure_> instead of the actual work?
12:14  * kanzure_ is thinking of the md5 bitbanging crowd on rizon.net. They generate all possible inputs to the md5 generator up to some size.
12:14 < kanzure_> UtopiahGHML: Are you aware of p2pfoundation.net? And have you told Michel of peer2peeruniversity.org?
12:15 < fenn> since an md5 is not a "creative work" i'd guess no
12:15 < fenn> (you cant copyright a number)
12:15 < fenn> (yes i know computer programs are numbers)
12:18 < kanzure_> faceface: Re: all into intelligence enhancing drugs for the feedback effect, the drugs are one way, but there's some other options to be investigating. Uh, ultrasound. *cough*
12:19 < willPow3r> lol
12:20 < faceface> kanzure_, I see
12:20 < faceface> kanzure_, did you see the rainbow tables pdf I posted?
12:20 < kanzure_> Woah. The tv-box-news-thingy has this all down to exact numbers. "Under McCain, you will save xyz money per week on entertainment.
12:20 < kanzure_> faceface: No. You best email me the link: kanzure@gmail.com
12:21 < faceface> anyone keep logs that far back?
12:21 < kanzure_> me :)
12:21 < kanzure_> oh wait
12:21 < kanzure_> so yes, I do have the logs
12:21 < faceface> sorry, I don't think I do
12:21 < faceface> I got an email though
12:22 < faceface> sent
12:22 < kanzure_> Anywho, http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Sustained_attention
12:23 < kanzure_> That was my attempt at mapping out which parts of the brain would be useful to 'enhance' if we're looking for some stupid correlate of 'intelligence'.
12:23 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/humancortex.html
12:23 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/egan.html
12:23 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/buildingbrains.html
12:23 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/recursion.html
12:23 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/thinking.html (from the other direction)
12:23 < kanzure_> These pages are some ranting-style notes on brainal augmentation stuffs.
12:24 < faceface> yeah, thats part of the debate, somtimes its focus, othertiems its creativity
12:24 < kanzure_> At one point I was writing some software in http://heybryan.org/books/mousebrain/ to display the human cortex gene expression information so that I could find molecular correlates to the information on http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Sustained_attention 
12:24 < faceface> seen mouse atlas?
12:24 < faceface> I guess so
12:24 < kanzure_> Yes, I have it in /books/mousebrain/
12:28 < fenn> -==><Spaceship XML>      <br>     <br>      
12:29 < kanzure_> fenn: catch my spaceship xml link?
12:29 < kanzure_> and where did I recently talk about spaceship xml anyway?
12:30 < fenn> openvirgle
12:30 < fenn> i guess that should be <pew>    <pew>
12:30 < kanzure_> in a moderately appropriate list? that's a new one
12:30 < kanzure_> metal generator is working
12:31 < kanzure_> I'm not doing subtraction yet, but supposedly that's easy.
12:31 < fenn> uh, you might want to check your assumption
12:32 < kanzure_> I don't know why I wrote this.
12:34 < kanzure_> It's not like it's very useful. So what, you can generate a million stupid shapes of things that would fail even a toddler's tests-for-usability.
12:45 < UtopiahGHML> 13:14 < kanzure_> UtopiahGHML: Are you aware of p2pfoundation.net? And have you told Michel of peer2peeruniversity.org?
12:46 < UtopiahGHML> I updated the wiki page with P2PU link few hours ago
12:48 < UtopiahGHML> IMHO contacting him without having a clean page to show first is risky
12:49 < UtopiahGHML> we need to show some work, some value to bring, I don't like empty promises.
13:05 < kanzure_> fenn: If this point is further out than that poit, then *gasp*
13:05 < kanzure_> where one point is a boundary point, I mean, and one side of it is to be conserved
13:08 < kanzure_> Recomputing the mesh when chunks are taken out of objects is a matter of keeping the original object boundaries, slicing off the "tip" inserted into the other object, and then giving those points/faces to the object it's cutting into, removing the original surface, with a pattern at the "hole" equivalent to the cross section at the intersection
13:08  * kanzure_ goes down to eat.
13:08 < UtopiahGHML> what's the website for shared dataset? it's been posted here a while ago
13:08 < kanzure_> UtopiahGHML: http://theinfo.org/ ?
13:08 < UtopiahGHML> thank you kanzure_ 
13:52 < faceface> UtopiahGHML, clean page - right
16:59 < kanzure__> Hm.
17:22 -!- boogles_ is now known as boogles
17:23 < kanzure__> Hi boogles.
17:24 < boogles> Hey there.
17:25 < bkero> Das boogles
17:25 < boogles> Die booglen
17:25 < bkero> boogles is a pants roll
17:25 < bkero> troll
17:25 < boogles> Pants
17:25 < boogles> I'm in ur pants trollin ur zippers
17:25 < bkero> boogles: You want to come over and play with mah EEG?
17:25 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 15 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
17:25 < boogles> Will I have to shave my head?
17:25 < bkero> Do you want to shave your head?
17:26 < bkero> We are coming into winter.
17:26 < boogles> Not particularly.
17:26 < boogles> Exactly.
17:26 < kanzure__> bkero: *I* want to come over and play with the EEG.
17:26 < bkero> kanzure__: Get on the first flight to Oreogn.
17:26 < bkero> *oregon
17:26 < boogles> Waitaminute, you're back?
17:27 < bkero> Haha, no.
17:27 < boogles> Awwww.
17:27 < boogles> :(
17:27 < bkero> Yes, get on the first flight to Oregon and I'll meet you in January. ;P
17:28 < boogles> Step 1 complete.
17:29 < bkero> kanzure__: You can order one prebuilt from a gentleman in England.  That's what I did.
17:29 < bkero> It's the price of components plus $100 assembly.
17:29 < bkero> I still needed to source electrodes in from Canada.
17:30 < UtopiahGHML> cheaper than Emotiv/Neurosky?
17:30 < bkero> $400 total
17:31 < bkero> $350 plus $50 shipping over the drink.
17:31 < boogles> So the Emotiv is real?
17:31 < boogles> Not some internet fabrication?
17:32 < UtopiahGHML> http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/prototype-this-mind-controlled-car-full-episode.html
17:32 < boogles> Hm.... *extremely tempted to reserve one*
17:33  * boogles gets paycheck
17:33 < UtopiahGHML> SDK http://emotiv.com/corporate/1_0/1_1.htm
17:33 < bkero> It's for a 2 channel, which should get me X-axis, Y-axis, and a single 'click'
17:34 < bkero> UtopiahGHML: Can i buy an emotiv anywhere?
17:34 < boogles> Is their SDK only for Windows?
17:35 < UtopiahGHML> bkero: dunno if you are in the BayArea but they are located in SF
17:35 < bkero> I used to be located in the bay area.
17:35 < UtopiahGHML> I don't have on myself so I can't tell
17:35 < bkero> Should I go knock on their door and ask if I can have one?
17:35 < boogles> Perhaps I will e-mail themz
17:35 < UtopiahGHML> :)
17:35 < kanzure__> Everybody in the world has been talking with them.
17:35 < boogles> And/or develop a linux port
17:35 < kanzure__> I would be surprised if they reply to your emailings.
17:35 < boogles> Yeah
17:35 < kanzure__> Best to just start hacking one.
17:35 < boogles> Worth a shot tho
17:35 < boogles> With the hardware?
17:36  * kanzure__ doesn't like the emotiv people because of the lies in the media. "READS YER MINDZ!"
17:36 < boogles> *out
17:36 < UtopiahGHML> try http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=9489703974 maybe
17:36 < UtopiahGHML> yep their marketing is... just wrong
17:36 < bkero> kanzure__: I've seen their speil.  I think I can do it better. :)
17:36 < kanzure__> A better speil?
17:36 < bkero> A better cursor control implementation.
17:36 < kanzure__> I think all of us here could.
17:36 < kanzure__> Oh.
17:37 < boogles> Too bad you lack means of production. :/
17:37 < kanzure__> Does the emotiv headset come with an optional HUD?
17:37 < boogles> zomg that'd be amazing
17:37 < kanzure__> boogles: Bah with means of production.
17:37 < bkero> HUDs don't work. :/  They fuck with your eyesight a lot.
17:37 < kanzure__> bkero: Not when you can flip it up like sunglasses.
17:37 < boogles> Direct optic nerve projection++
17:37 < bkero> I had a HUD on sunglasses
17:37 < kanzure__> boogles: Implementation?
17:37 < kanzure__> bkero: No, I don't mean those.
17:38 < boogles> lol No idea
17:38 < kanzure__> bkero: I mean the cyborg-eyecam style stuff. ;-)
17:38 < bkero> Yea
17:38 < bkero> Even with those
17:38 < bkero> I've seen some attempts
17:38  * boogles classes
17:38 < bkero> The problem is that your mind-eye tries to place it as an object in your field of vision, and that doesn't work.
17:38 < kanzure__> Even when they are pulled back, and out of your line/sector of sight, how does it fail?
17:38 < UtopiahGHML> http://www.neurosky.com/menu/main/technology/product_summary/
17:38 < kanzure__> Neurosky sounds like a bad Russian name.
17:38 < bkero> Since it has no depth, and cannot be placed in a 3d plane, your brain doesn't know WTF
17:39 < bkero> Anybody want to help me beat them to market? :)
17:39 < kanzure__> Who? Emotiv?
17:39 < UtopiahGHML> think it's partly SouthKorean based, at least one of their main scientist was from their AFAIR
17:39 < bkero> Sure
17:39 < bkero> How long has emotiv been pimping itself with nothing to show for it?
17:39 < kanzure__> They still aren't showing?
17:39 < kanzure__> wtf?
17:39 < bkero> Where can I buy one?
17:39 < kanzure__> I don't know, I hate the product already, so I avoid it.
17:40 < bkero> Heh
17:41 < kanzure__> Two variables extracted from the skull .. woop-de-do.
17:43 < kanzure__> So, I can actually start to fund some projects around here if anyone is interested.
17:44 < UtopiahGHML> thing is, producing an EEG product is nice but having something more effective than today *super* cheap keyboard+mouse+speech_recognition is... way hard
17:44 < UtopiahGHML> er
17:45 < kanzure__> I wish I could force people to read the logs.
17:45 < kanzure__> All of them.
17:51 < UtopiahGHML> dreaming of kanzure's_work >> who_ever_brain or even better kanzure's_work > who_ever_brain?
17:51 < kanzure__> Okay. I have a nasty problem. I have to run a graph-intersection algorithm on a potentially ridiculously large number of graphs (1,000 to 755,000). This will take forever unless I stream it. And I also have to let the user see a representative sample.
17:51 < kanzure__> UtopiahGHML: What's the who_ever_brain variable?
17:51 < kanzure__>  >> is fine, though
17:51 < kanzure__> no need for >'ing it
17:54 < kanzure__> http://ajaxpatterns.org/HTTP_Streaming <- Huh.
17:54 < UtopiahGHML> build an array of PS3 and let it's compute the graph with matrices
17:59 < bkero> Just use some video cards :P
18:01 < UtopiahGHML> HMPP (Hybrid Multicore Parallel Programming)
18:01 < kanzure__> First I'll just have it stream out a list of matches, ajax-js-clear the list after 20 entries (or pop it at 20 or whatever), then go from there.
18:01 < kanzure__> File xyz matches with n nodes.
18:01 < kanzure__> Why did I make a dir with a million files in it?
18:02 < kanzure__> 3 GB of graphs.
18:02 < UtopiahGHML> hope the result will be useful
18:04 < UtopiahGHML> kanzure__: used Comet before?
18:04 < kanzure__> I haven't heard of it.
18:04 < UtopiahGHML> well, best explanation Ive seen so far : http://www.freeliberator.com/comet/
18:06 < gene_> you there kanzure?
18:06 < kanzure__> gene_: Yes.
18:06 < kanzure__> This is O(n^2) for a million graphs. This is a terrible idea.
18:07 < kanzure__> Thanks UtopiahGHML .
18:07 < gene_> so you want to see a presentation on neuroscience and the law?
18:08 < UtopiahGHML> lol, like is it legal to hack a brain thanks to neuroscience :D
18:08 < gene_> they might go into the legality of cognitive enhancement
18:08 < kanzure__> Financial trading should not be done via AJAX _ever_.
18:08 < kanzure__> gene_: I'll look, but I won't agree with it.
18:08 < gene_> yeah
18:08 < gene_> want to crash it?
18:08 < kanzure__> Crash what?
18:08 < gene_> the presentation
18:08 < gene_> it's in carothers
18:08 < gene_> where I am
18:08 < kanzure__> Oh, you don't have the file?
18:09 < kanzure__> No, it's not worth it.
18:09 < gene_> k
18:09 < kanzure__> UtopiahGHML: I don't think they know what they are saying there. They claim that they don't use a polling model, but in truth TCP/IP stacks act as interrupts a.k.a polls.
18:10 < UtopiahGHML> I wonder how Comet/Server push/HTTP streaming works behind proxies/firewall/nat/etc though....
18:10 < kanzure__> Yeah, streaming rarely works behind proxies.
18:10 < kanzure__> Configuration of the proxies determines how long until the stream is closed, so.
18:10 < kanzure__> *until the streams are closed, so.
18:10 < UtopiahGHML> guess it could be possible to degrade to a more classical query mode then though.
18:11 < UtopiahGHML> if (no data receive for an amount of time) then query the server;
18:14 < kanzure__> http://perl.plover.com/Stream/stream.html <- Yay somebody understands infinite lists in programming.
18:17 < UtopiahGHML> well recursion and lazy evaluating in Haskell have been managing infinite structures for a while
18:26 < kanzure__> http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/S/SP/SPARKS/whisper_1_2.pl <- CPAN doesn't have HTTP streaming support?
18:26 < kanzure__> Have to do it via socketing it myself.
18:43 < kanzure__> Ah, it's $| = 1. 
18:43 < kanzure__> http://dhcp-84-253.me.utexas.edu/cgi-bin/test.cgi
20:33 < kanzure__> http://webwait.com/ <- Please please please somebody find me "SATA2 wait". Then we can show wyh this new fangled 'web' thing is such a bad ide.a
20:33 < kanzure__> *idea.
20:34 < kanzure__> http://ajaxpatterns.org/Periodic_Refresh <-- Why would a factory be using AJAX to display their floorplan?
20:34 < kanzure__> I am terribly confused. Everything is all Dr. Seuss on me.
20:52 < fenn> because factories move machinery around depending on what they're making
20:53 < fenn> it's like using miniature paper models, but more difficult
20:54 < kanzure__> http://dhcp-84-253.me.utexas.edu/graph/graph-easy/
20:54 < kanzure__> Click "MAKE" and then click "Make the impossible possible" and be amazed.
20:54 < UtopiahGHML> http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=3656 , how it can help.
20:54 < procto> kanzure__: uh... looking at the "goal story" it's clear why they're using ajax. it's because it needs an updating information display...
20:54 < procto> kanzure__: seems fairly obvious to me. what's the confusion?
20:55  * kanzure__ is looking at a non-ajax, non-browser updating interface at the moment
20:55 < kanzure__> What's *your* confusion?
20:55  * kanzure__ goes off to a meeting
20:57 < bkero> Two more hours until I get to kill more super mutants.
20:57 < fenn> in soviet russia, super mutants kill you!
21:00 < fenn> bkero: is that some sort of fallout 3 reference?
21:00 < bkero> fenn: Yes
21:00 < bkero> I'm caught in a serious fallout 3 grip.
21:01 < fenn> well it could be worse i guess
21:01 < bkero> I could be mainlining heroin into my penis.
21:02  * procto is excited to play the mirror's edge demo
21:02 < procto> gonna do it sunday
22:50 < kanzure__> http://function2.device.mst.edu/download/ <- 1.4 GB in 10 minutes. Yay networks.
22:50 < kanzure__> port 16080  ?
23:22 < willPow3r> 1.4 GB in 10 mins isnt that fast by usenet standards
23:22 < willPow3r> well, nm
23:22 < willPow3r> it is fast.
23:23 < kanzure__> :)
23:25 < willPow3r> i gave up on bittorrent because i can't stand anything less than 1 MB/sec download. and that comes out to be... *crunches some numbers* ... 60 MB/min
23:26 < kanzure__> You can spend a few months torrenting the large gigabyte collections.
23:26 < kanzure__> Now imagine trying to torrent my /books/nature_extremedump/
23:26 < kanzure__> It has something like an 8 MB directory index itself.
23:27 < willPow3r> you'd be better off printing it out and sending it by pony express.
23:28 < kanzure__> That's what I'm doing.
23:28 < kanzure__> Boston Fab Lab sent me a 1 TB hdd.
23:28 < willPow3r> that mobile one?
23:28 < kanzure__> What do you mean?
23:28 < kanzure__> The 1 TB hdd is "mobile" in the sense that it is mailable, yes.
23:28 < willPow3r> the mobile fab lab.
23:29 < willPow3r> not the hdd
23:29 < kanzure__> No.
23:29 < kanzure__> The one with firm feet in the ground.
23:30 < willPow3r> they sent you a hard drive to upload your docs then send back fedex-style?
23:31 < willPow3r> whats the url to your books dump anyway
23:36 < kanzure__> http://heybryan.org/books/
23:36 < kanzure__> Yes, they sent me a physical hdd.
23:36 < kanzure__> They ordered something brand-spanking new for me.
23:37 < willPow3r> i bet you feel special.
23:37 < kanzure__> I dooo.
23:38 < willPow3r> i got a polo shirt from a company once.
23:38 < kanzure__> http://dhcp-84-253.me.utexas.edu/graph/graph-easy/ <-- Hit the "MAKE" button and then the button that isn't "cancel". Be amazed!
23:40 < willPow3r> cant read the buttons
23:40 < kanzure__> Browser?
23:40 < willPow3r> firefox 3
23:40 < kanzure__> Huh.
23:40 < kanzure__> Up at the top, right?
23:41  * kanzure__ leaves
23:42 < willPow3r> providing screenshot
23:44 < willPow3r> http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/75b3ed85d9.jpg
23:57 < kanzure-> Oh, so it did work
23:57 < kanzure-> Yeah, I know, it doesn't display the bottom two buttons.