--- Day changed Fri Nov 21 2008
00:22 < fenn> i'm not sure whether to root for the pirates or not
00:23 < fenn> they should just launder the oil instead of trying to ransom it
00:34 < nsh-> no, they should wire the oil up to a bomb
00:34 < nsh-> that explodes if the tanker goes below
00:34 < nsh-> (*dum dum dum*)
00:34 < nsh-> 4 knots
00:34 < nsh-> it's be incredibly prolonged suspense
00:34 < nsh-> *it'd
00:34 < kanzure> doesn't it travel at 3?
00:35 < nsh-> makes it more of a challenge
00:36 < fenn> nsh-: i guess then they'd have to ramp the tanker off the edge of the world
00:36 < kanzure> heh
00:40 < kanzure> I wonder why they don't just bother stealing the tanker itself.
00:40 < kanzure> they obviously have some of the weapons they need, 
00:40 < kanzure> and it's a great source of metals
00:40 < kanzure> they could then go steal twice as many tankers
00:41 < fenn> metals?
00:41 < fenn> pirates dont build ships
00:41 < fenn> and besides, it's full of oil
00:41 < fenn> where are they going to put all that oil
00:41 < fenn> if they need metals they steal ships carrying metal
00:42 < kanzure> no, I don't think they should build ships
00:42 < kanzure> they should steal them ..
00:42 < kanzure> that's what pirates do..
00:42 < kanzure> and then use the ships to steal more ships, no?
00:42 < kanzure> oh well.
00:43 < fenn> presumably this generates money at some point
01:17 < kanzure> A
01:18 < kanzure> +post on orions_arm about "forced transapience". 
02:00 < kanzure> fenn, the naysayer is back
02:00 < kanzure> "I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying it would not be optimal / efficient given the set of tools available to average hobbyist or DIYer today. Maybe I misunderstand - do you have an example of what would be a consistent way to describe a design and/or a manufacturing process?"
02:01 < kanzure> the example, I have
02:01 < kanzure> but the average hobbyist surely has some baseline set of tools
02:01 < kanzure> hands to fold origami,
02:01 < kanzure> tools in a shed, or friends with tools to make more tools, etc.
02:16 < kanzure> it's actually a friendly naysayer, I don't really mind him that much
02:17 < fenn> if all you have are hands, even plain text english isnt the best way to describe something
02:18 < kanzure> say, do you have any gait issues?
02:18 < fenn> reference eric hunting rant about flat pack furniture and gundam toys
02:18 < fenn> i wonder why i can't remember the name of the company that makes flat pack furniture
02:18 < fenn> starts with an I
02:19 < fenn> what gait issues in particular?
02:19 < fenn> i dont particularly enjoy walking long distances, most people seem to walk too fast too
02:20 < kanzure> just wondering, motor abnormalities
02:21 < fenn> Ikea, hah.. i kept thinking  "Ikeda" (japanese last name)
02:22 < fenn> i've been accused of sneaking around on tiptoes on multiple occasions
02:22 < kanzure> stealing cookies?
02:22 < kanzure> heh.
02:22 < fenn> also accused of "posing" whatever that means
02:23 < fenn> nothing i could call a "defect" though
02:24 < fenn> http://www.morgana.co.uk/assets/Staples.jpg
02:25 < fenn> oops
02:25 < fenn> http://failblog.org/2008/11/17/sign-win/
02:49 < kanzure> http://geneoracle.com/ add to list of http://e-oligos.com/ http://mrgene.com/
02:49 < kanzure> geneoracle claims up to 1 KB/day
02:53 < kanzure> Huh. House uses ultrasound at 100 kHz to make a little kid have alien hallucinations. But this on the brain-surface.
02:55 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/DNA_synthesizer#Other_stuff added a list at the bottom .. 
02:59  * kanzure wants a failblog
02:59 < kanzure> No, wait. A Fail Lab. 
02:59 < kanzure> We study teh fails.
04:51 < gene> you can't watch Haruhi on Hulu fenn
05:50 < gene> lol piracy
05:50 < gene> piracy of lols
09:08 < kanzure_> http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/11/14/the-worlds-most-super-designed-data-center-fit-for-a-james-bond-villain/
09:08 < kanzure_> Alright, so we get it, it used to be a bomb bunker; but isn't the fog in the working spaces a little much?
09:08 < kanzure_> Also, what's with publishing the schematic of the building?
09:16 < kanzure> Hi Aulere.
09:23 < Aulere> Hi Kanzure
09:36 < UtopiahGHML> who brought up the subject of stigmergic collaboration few days ago?
09:37 < fenn> paul fernhout
09:38 < UtopiahGHML> know what made him think about it?
09:38 < fenn> these interlocking containers are neat - wish they came in more sizes than (18mm)^3 and 3x long
09:39 < fenn> oops, link: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4580
09:39 < fenn> UtopiahGHML: nope, he's into a lot of cool stuff though
09:40 < UtopiahGHML> ok, thank you fenn 
09:53 < UtopiahGHML> (wtf mind42 just drop my entire map or what...)
09:54 < UtopiahGHML> (it saved it 4 times or more, published it and now it's empty wtf)
09:54 < UtopiahGHML> :(
10:00 < UtopiahGHML> oh they have revisions, thank you oh great Flying Spaghetti Monster
10:14 < fenn> web-based services ftw, i guess
10:14 < fenn> of course i'd rather have the file too
10:18 < UtopiahGHML> regarding web-based services I will soon start an AGPL server so if you have suggestion or ideas, Im all ears
10:19 < UtopiahGHML> basically I dont want to have to rely on Google or other service providers, have my data stuck, not knowing what is going on, etc
10:19 < UtopiahGHML> and of course be able to plug in and out my data in all different ways
10:19 < UtopiahGHML> which is difficult with limited vendors API and not really in the FOSS spirit
10:28 < UtopiahGHML> anybody can relate to today Dilbert's cartoon? ;) http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2008-11-21/
10:47 < UtopiahGHML> (using AJAX based tools with Vimperator and ClearForst Gnosis with Firefox starts to be pretty cumbersome)
11:37 < UtopiahGHML> Eurekster just got eaten by Google with "Google wiki" or what?
12:28 < fenn> optical finger mouse, for mobile computing: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2695
12:30 < fenn> has a nice "borg" look to it, i say
12:32 < fenn> hmm apparently it has to be really close to the surface to work.. nevermind
12:43 < kanzure> I'm so pathetic. The main thing keeping me from wearables these days is the plastic structure for a head mount.
12:45 < UtopiahGHML> when you say wearables you mind things like Emotiv/NeuroSky EEG headset?
12:45 < UtopiahGHML> \you mean\
12:45 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: If you want something useful to do, go make me a Semantic Search Facilitator that keeps track and manages Google search sessions with what is basically a frame on the side of the window keeping track of recent searches and suggested mutations via filtering through WordNet.
12:46 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: No, those do not count.
12:46 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: I'm actually talking about the cyborg monocular head mounts.
12:47 < UtopiahGHML> things on that direction http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/cyberpunked-living/socan-you-make-me-a-cyborg/ ?
12:48 < kanzure> Yawn, we've been talking about removing eyes since the dawn of man when it comes to transhumanism.
12:48 < UtopiahGHML> kanzure: regarind your desired "Semantic Search Facilitator" do you mean sth like http://www.exalead.fr
12:48 < kanzure> I even suggested it to my gf, but she couldn't see it through. har har har.
12:49 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: No.
12:49 < UtopiahGHML> you've tride their "narrow your search" pannel already
12:49 < kanzure_> http://www.cs.jyu.fi/ai/OntoGroup/InBCT_May_2004.html
12:50 < kanzure> I'm not interested in "narrow your search".
12:50 < kanzure> Argh, you also haven't been listening to me I take it?
12:50 < kanzure> why do I bother ranting if nobody's going to listen
12:51 < UtopiahGHML> funny that you repeat this sentence several time with different person
12:51 < kanzure> It's not funny! It's terribly, terribly sad :-(
12:52 < UtopiahGHML> well, communication is a difficult process but once again if you don't smile at adversity your life will probably suck
12:53 < kanzure> this has nothing to do with communication being difficult, and more to do with you not reading your backlogs or something.
12:53 < UtopiahGHML> right, I should know the whole history of this channel since it exists
12:53 < UtopiahGHML> I should also know the whole history of humanity
12:53 < UtopiahGHML> and the university
12:53 < kanzure> ideally :) but I'm pretty sure I've talked about it since you've been showing up
12:54 < UtopiahGHML> and the universe
12:54 < UtopiahGHML> thing is, I didn't make it (yet)
12:54 < kanzure>  make what ??
12:54 < UtopiahGHML> gather and understood the whole backlog of the universe
12:55 < kanzure> I've still mentioned it numerous times since you've started showing up though.
12:57 < UtopiahGHML> and if you didn't it's in the log or the wiki Im sure
12:58 < UtopiahGHML> anyway if Exalead doesn't make it you can try http://www.altsearchengines.com/ they have plenty of alternatives
12:58 < UtopiahGHML> Id personnaly just make a greasemonkey script to call wordnet API or whatever but that would only work with FF without modif
12:58 < kanzure> I'm not interested in alternative search engines, wtf man.
12:58 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: yeah, exactly
12:59 < kanzure> also, greasemonkey does work with opera fwiw
12:59 < kanzure> greasemonkey userscripts, I mean
13:03 < UtopiahGHML> (eventually using OpenCalais.com API too)
13:04 < UtopiahGHML> and I was suggestion altsearchengines.com because maybe one of those are actually already providing this kind of services
13:05 < kanzure> Don't care, want my own.
13:06 < kanzure> Are you going to make it or not ? You seemed like you were probing for things to do.
13:06 < UtopiahGHML> (could also use DBpedia.org and redirections from wikipedia to refine I guess)
13:07 < UtopiahGHML> well thank you for the proposition but Im already behind schedule
13:09 < kanzure> hellooo
13:09 < kanzure> http://tootoo.com/
13:12 < kanzure> http://21food.cn/
13:47 < kanzure> UtopiahGHML: Have you ever used phpmyadmin?
13:47 < kanzure> There's this feature where you can select rows of results with your mouse. There's an onmouseover effect that changes the color of the tables, and if you click you select them (onmousedown). Simple enough.
13:47 < kanzure> I'm wondering why gmail still hasn't implemented this.
13:47 < kanzure> It's hardly a huge change.
13:51 < kanzure> Huh. Opera 9.6 finally keeps track of bookmark-creation-date when you add to the bookmark manager via drag-and-drop. Yay.
13:56 < kanzure_> http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&hs=rhW&q=mrgene+e-oligos&btnG=Search <- Aw. The results are me.
13:57 < kanzure_> "And when man keyed the queries to the mighty search engines of the information age, what he found was his own face staring back at himself."
14:14 < kanzure_> http://pni.unibe.ch/MailList.htm TMS mailing list from the "international society for tms"
14:16 < kanzure_> http://pni.unibe.ch/Chip.htm "EMG amplifier"
14:40 < kanzure_> http://www.sourcetool.com/ hm.
14:40 < kanzure_> from http://www.tradecomet.com/
14:40 < kanzure_> from http://searchenginewatch.com/3552296
14:40 < kanzure_> "The first speaker was Michael Doyle, vice president business development for TradeComet and the former VP Business Development of Thomas B2B, a division of Thomas Publishing Co."
14:40 < kanzure_> "Doyle talked about "new directions in B2B search." He said, "Company product specification data needs to be published in indexable formats" that meet standards like the United Nations Standard Products and Services Code (UNSPSC). This would "allow companies to include themselves in a standard index if they adopt general standards" or use software tools to classify their products, he added."
14:41 < kanzure_> Too bad they just have a directory of companies that fit UNSPSC.
14:42  * kanzure_ leaves.
14:42 < kanzure_> overlaying seekda on that might be cool though.
15:59 -!- Matt- is now known as Maattt
16:00 < Maattt> Hi.
16:00 < Maattt> Who are all these people?
16:54 -!- Maattt_ is now known as Maattt
17:05 < kanzure> Hi Maattt.
17:06 < Maattt> Whoa, you could have used my real name :)
17:06 < Maattt> Class is over?
17:07 < kanzure> It's tab completion. Maa<tab> ==> Maattt 
17:08 < Maattt> Ha, cool.
17:08 < Maattt> Was that a class only for super advanced people?
17:08 < Maattt> Cause everything went over my head :/
17:08 < kanzure> It goes over everyone's head actually.
17:09 < kanzure> Today was just about different regions of the brain involved in figuring out from which direction a sound comes from as an example of some circuitry in the brai.
17:09 < kanzure> Which I guess kind of sucks since it wasn't about simulations :-).
17:09 < Maattt> I was reading the first lecture that you typed up, about strong AI. It was very interesting.
17:10 < Maattt> I think it's interesting how you actually type 'um' whenever the professor says it.
17:10 < kanzure> Heh. Yeah, it's also kind of useless at the same time.
17:10 < kanzure> Strong AI is a big topic around here (sometimes).
17:10 < kanzure> Have you heard of things like 'the singularity' ?
17:11 < Maattt> Of course. Machines self improve and self replicate to the point of overcoming anything humans can make!
17:12 < kanzure> Something like that.
17:12 < kanzure> So I've been invited to a meetup group for these topics, it's a transhuman/cryopreservation group in Austin, 
17:13 < Maattt> sweet
17:13 < kanzure> called CryoFeast, a thanksgiving feast on December 7
17:13 < kanzure> They want me to bring some UT students other than myself :-)
17:13 < kanzure> There's at least two others who are somewhat interested in attending
17:13 < Maattt> Do you think I'd know what they're talking about?
17:14 < kanzure> It's all sorts of topics. Alcor ( http://alcor.org/ - and student discounts) and other various topics .. it's social more than technical at this point
17:14 < Maattt> Oh okay cool, I'll be glad to come.
17:14 < kanzure> http://maxmore.com/ and http://natasha.cc/ are the hosts :-)
17:14 < Maattt> Is December 7 after Thanksgiving break?
17:15 < kanzure> yeah
17:15 < kanzure> isn't it?
17:15 < Maattt> just checking :P
17:15 < Maattt> :p
17:15 < Maattt> lol, messing with the emoticons
17:16 < Maattt> [|:D-|-<
17:16 < Maattt> That's a guy with a hat.
17:21 < kanzure> Maattt: Have you ever seen http://orionsarm.com/ ?
17:25 < Maattt> Checking it out now.
17:26 < Maattt> Whoa, that's crazy. It's like an entire server full of fanfic :D
17:42 < Maattt> I'm going somewhere. How do I change my status?
17:42 < Maattt> Oh, got it
18:04 < xp_prg> hi all!
18:07 < kanzure> Hi.
19:09 -!- Maattt_ is now known as Maattt
19:25 -!- Maattt_ is now known as Maattt
21:17 < kanzure> Hey Maattt.
21:17 < kanzure> Oh, that was two hours ago.
21:56 < kanzure_> http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/dmodha/
21:56 < kanzure_> I guess he's the IBM side of the Blue Brain project.
22:41 < kanzure_> http://www.bambam131.com/artofboolean.htm Spaceship models, schematics in jpg form not easy to see
22:42 < kanzure_> but otherwise interesting
22:42 < kanzure_> for instance,
22:42 < kanzure_> http://www.bambam131.com/artofboolean/artofboolean44a.jpg
22:43 < kanzure_> http://www.metafilter.com/44422/Spaceship-renderings-and-I-dont-mean-melted-fat is where I got that from
22:44 < kanzure_> http://origami.joyfulnoisewebdesign.com/index.php?starts_with=e origami model database (references only)
22:52 < kanzure_> http://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1244521&postcount=10
23:21 < fenn> origami database sucks
23:22 < fenn> it doesnt even have any content, just references to dead trees
23:24 < fenn> physicsforums guy's process SUCKS
23:30 < kanzure> heh
23:30 < kanzure> What if that's really how he did it?
23:30 < fenn> that is how they do it
23:30 < kanzure> and if it worked too?
23:30 < fenn> it doesnt mean i have to like it
23:30 < kanzure> right
23:30 < kanzure> but somehow it "works out in the end"
23:30 < kanzure> and people don't seem to mind.
23:30 < kanzure> I mean, the people that matter
23:31 < fenn> if you consider our broken, bland, backwards world "works out in the end"
23:31 < kanzure> that get to influence how to make projects happen
23:31 < kanzure> hm
23:31 < kanzure> good point.
23:31 < kanzure> Maybe it's all a scam, all that "profit"
23:31 < fenn> it is
23:31 < kanzure> (being serious)
23:31 < kanzure> right
23:31 < kanzure> but then why do they claim their projects successful?
23:31 < kanzure> maybe we need a new success metric
23:31 < kanzure> or none at all
23:32 < kanzure> ideally none :)
23:34 < fenn> fenn's (correct) design procedure:
23:34 < fenn> start out with a vaguely defined goal, and lots of extra features
23:34 < fenn> look around to see what's available
23:35 < fenn> throw a bunch of crap in a room with three engineers and a coffee maker, and lock the door for a week
23:35 < kanzure_> holy crap I've been using the wrong terminology re: MEAs
23:35 < kanzure_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrocorticography
23:36 < kanzure_> found via http://www.technologyreview.com/biomedicine/21699/
23:37 < fenn> that's good news
23:38 < kanzure> oh wait
23:38 < kanzure> this is just intercranial EEG
23:38 < kanzure> with macro-size electrodes
23:39 < fenn> yes
23:40 < kanzure> In the article they talk of a foldable mesh of electrodes that could be pushed through a tiny drilled hole, and then unfold within the skull, and stick to the brain with some wetness bonding agent
23:41 < kanzure> but 
23:41 < fenn> how do they get it back out?
23:41 < kanzure> they go fishing I guess
23:41 < kanzure> I also don't understand if they close up the hole, how would this be made to be wireless?
23:42 < fenn> with purpletooth technology
23:42 < kanzure> hrm?
23:42 < kanzure> Google isn't being helpful
23:43 < fenn> just some ultra-specialized implant chip
23:43 < kanzure> that's unfortunate.
23:43 < kanzure> I mean, it's not easy to make those by hand
23:43 < fenn> it's not easy to make anything by hand
23:43 < kanzure> in fact I'm not even sure how anybody ever convinced CyberNetics (or whatever the company is) to tool their semiconductor line for MEAs
23:43 < kanzure> CyberKinetics?
23:43 < kanzure> it's the one that does the Ohio MEA, the one with an 10x10 or 100x100 electrode array
23:44 < fenn> why do they need special semiconductors for that?
23:44 < kanzure> maybe this was just me making stuff up, that's quite possible
23:44 < kanzure> I thought they were rolling these off the production line with the electrodes
23:44 < kanzure> so they were manufacturing these using some etching process, but maybe not?
23:45 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/neuro/
23:45 < kanzure> guess I should go back and read the 'materials and methods' sections..
23:49 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/neuro/32-channel%20microelectrode%20120%20mm.pdf <- this one just shows a drive connector thingy on a PCB wired up to the end of the electrode tips
23:50 < kanzure> "100 1.5-mm electrodes spaced at 400-micron intervals"
23:51 < fenn> well this is interesting; open source electric racecar (another project of vik olliver): 
23:51 < fenn> http://www.greenstage.co.nz/
23:51 < fenn> http://blog.greenstage.co.nz/
23:52 < kanzure> I wonder what the sponsorship on that thing will be.
23:53 < fenn> well seeing how it's built i'd guess they already have sponsors
23:53 < kanzure> "Look! We be green, we be sponsoring open source car."
23:57 < kanzure> Paul's reply in "The Open Enterprise" might be his Markov debug log
23:57 < kanzure> take a look -- that's clearly a copy and pate 
23:57 < fenn> hehehe