--- Day changed Wed Dec 17 2008
00:01 < fenn> i think you want something like my "arc length parameterized spiral" function:  http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/spiral3.png  http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/lengthspiral.py
00:02 < fenn> G3 is gcode for arc, btw
00:03 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2008-12-16_spiral_generator_2_other_issue.png
00:03 < kanzure_> obviously something wrong^
00:03 < fenn> is it supposed to be a hollow tube?
00:03 < kanzure_> yes
00:03 < fenn> and if so, why not use brlcad's tube primitive
00:03 < kanzure_> not with cross-sections rotated around, what's going on there anyway
00:04 < kanzure_> the xy coords are set to the spiral coords, nothing about rotation
00:04 < fenn> eh? the rectangles aren't being rotated
00:04 < fenn> so.. rotate them
00:04 < kanzure_> no, they're not supposed to be
00:04 < kanzure_> but look at the screenshot
00:04 < kanzure_> (the other_issue)
00:04 < fenn> explain yourself!
00:05 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2008-12-16_spiral_generator_2_other_issue.png
00:05 < kanzure_> look at the tail
00:05 < kanzure_> something must be wrong.
00:05 < kanzure_> however, 
00:05 < fenn> the inside end?
00:05 < kanzure_> no, outside
00:05 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2008-12-16_spiral_generator_2.png
00:05 < kanzure_> that's a screenshot from the same dataset
00:05 < kanzure_> where they are rotated correctly
00:06 < kanzure_> explain this voodoo magic to me. :(
00:06 < fenn> they aren't rotated correctly, the camera viewpoint just makes it look sorta almost correct
00:07 < kanzure_> but I can zoom in there and rotate around and it's right
00:07 < fenn> show me
00:08 < kanzure_> the _2.png shot (last link I gave, just a few moments ago)
00:09 < fenn> in _2 the rectangles are still aligned parallel to each other, they arent rotating around the spiral
00:09 < kanzure_> wait, what? that's good, but you say "still" as if in the other_issue they are as well?
00:09 < fenn> it's the same data set
00:10 < fenn> you are looking at them from two angles 90 degrees apart
00:11 < fenn> i suggest taking a walk
00:11 < kanzure_> oh wait. maybe I should be rotating the cross sections w/ pi?
00:11 < fenn> theta
00:11 < kanzure_> erm, yes, a variable
00:11 < kanzure_> heh'
00:11  * fenn looks at the nasty perl code
00:12  * kanzure_ adds an orot $j 0 0; before the accept;
00:12 < fenn> der... the code changed on me
00:12 < kanzure_> but this might not actually do the trick because orot tends to hate me so far
00:13 < kanzure_> oops, I should have announced that.
00:13 < fenn> oh spiral_generator.pl not spiralgen.pl
00:13 < kanzure_> heh, yes.
00:14 < fenn> so, given: $x = $j*cos($j); $y = $j*sin($j)
00:14 < fenn> j is the parameter
00:14 < kanzure_> as I said above, orot :)
00:15 < fenn> yeah but you might change the parameter later, so you should have something like $angle = $j
00:16 < fenn> uh, why arent you using "t" as the parameter?
00:16 < kanzure_> do you have brlcad installed? it's easier if you just run the script instead of me uploading a 5 MB data set.
00:17 < kanzure_> I guess orot isn't really doing anything
00:17 < fenn> i know how it works
00:17 < kanzure_> when I was playing around in brlcad, orot doesn't play with 'regions', only shapes.
00:17 < kanzure_> guess I'll rotate before I make it a region. bleh.
00:18 < fenn> i have brlcad "sorta" installed, meaning there's all this crap in a huge directory but it won't run
00:18 < kanzure_> did you compile from sources?
00:18 < fenn> oh nm i just need export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin
00:19 < fenn> except it's in /usr/local..
00:19 < kanzure_> it took me the longest time to remember that the whole PATH=$PATH thing required :'s and not ;'s..
00:20 < gene> I really don't think we should be using brlcad to simply put down prims
00:21 < fenn> i have no idea what the purpose of this exercise is, so no comment
00:21 < kanzure_> oh, maybe I should be using 'comb' instead of r, and then using orot
00:21  * kanzure_ tests
00:21 < gene> excellent
00:22 < gene> the purpose is free energy fenn
00:25 < fenn> oh i bet
00:26 < kanzure_> nope, didn't work. I'll go take that walk [down to the kitchen].
00:27 < fenn> btw when you get back, before you thrash everything, might i suggest putting it in a git repo so you can go back to something that sorta works
00:31 < fenn> and try to understand my little python program please ;)
00:45 < fenn> i suppose i could fix it to work standalone, using cairo for graphics
01:26 < fenn> lengthspiral now in standalone-ish, in: http://fennetic.net/git/cxf2cnc.git/
01:27 < fenn> need to figure out wtf i'm doing with arcs
01:29 < fenn> and a pic for you lazies: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/lengthspiral.png
01:29 < fenn> ignore the green crap
02:07 < bkero> I'm free energy.
02:13 < kanzure_> fenn, what's lengthspiral.png supposed to be helping with?
02:24 < bkero> http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=3723
02:26 < kanzure_> bkero: Rock on.
02:49 < kanzure_> grr, I need a better stl viewer.
02:49 < kanzure_> right now I can only rotate, move the entire object left/right, and zoom in/out.
02:49 < kanzure_> but I'd rather be able to do some flying around.
02:54 < fenn> kanzure_: the bunching up at the center / spreading out at the edges
03:38 < kanzure_> aha]
03:38 < kanzure_> *aha
03:39 < bkero> Kill people
03:54 < ybit> grr, was not on logging 
03:55 < ybit> oi bryan, wher's the jap paper speaking about "fmri_extracts_images_from_the_brain"...
03:57 < ybit> Kang Cheng site:heybryan.org gives me nothing
03:57 < ybit> well, not what i'm looking for
03:57 < ybit> nor does RIKEN
04:03 < ybit> hmm, kanzure kanzure_ 
04:03 < ybit> :)
04:28 < kanzure_> ybit: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/
04:55 < kanzure_> http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/12/visualizing-eutopia.html#comment-142880728
04:55 < kanzure_> this is like reading a brick wall. Some people seem to have the right idea when commenting, but nobody ever replies to them.
05:00 < UtopiahGHML> http://nnlm.gov/pnr/dragonfly/2008/12/09/lifesci_search/ Alternative Search Engines for the Life Sciences 
05:01 < UtopiahGHML> think Eliezer Yudkowsky is more engaged in preaching in a dogmatic way that engaging with a dialog with "the masses"
05:02 < UtopiahGHML> his quality of thinking is too precise and thus precious to be wasted on debates
05:03 < bkero> I went to Boston this week and met Benjamin Mako Hill. :)
05:05 < UtopiahGHML> (he is most likely applying http://insti.physics.sunysb.edu/~siegel/quack.html with his own quality metrics though, makes sense)
05:17 < kanzure_> ybit: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/10/economic-defini.html#comment-136930723 
05:35 < edektor> anybody there?
05:39 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/eli.html <- Some notes on attempting to knock sense into Eliezer.
05:39 < kanzure_> There. Now I can stop complaining (right)?. 
05:44 < fenn> anyone want the rexresearch.com comprehensive hogwash database?
05:44 < fenn> covering free energy, reactionless propulsion, water from air, etc
05:44 < fenn> gene you know you want it
05:45 < gene> no, I'm much too smart for that
05:46 < edektor> How is the SynBio Book coming?
05:46 < gene> I'll find myself deconstructing the bad physics of movies rather than watching them sometimes
05:48 < edektor> Anybody?
05:48 < fenn> what synbio book?
05:50 < fenn> cool he even has a babington burner article
05:51 < edektor> This book: http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/6db3f4867ba006a4?pli=1. I dont know current status of the project though.
05:51 < fenn> oh was this mackenzie's project?
05:52 < fenn> meh
05:52 < fenn> i've enough unfinished projects of my own
05:53 < edektor> no Bryan Bishop's
05:53 < fenn> i think he was just "providing a place" to get things started for people running around like headless chickens
05:55 < edektor> are you sure? 
05:55 < edektor> I dont think so?
05:55 < bkero> No such thing as too many projects ;)
07:09 < edektor> You guys still working on the DIY Syn Bio book?
07:19 < fenn> haha my mom got a twitter account
07:39 < bkero> I have tons of random people following me on twitter
07:39 < bkero> I'll get two or three messages a day saying someone has started to follow me
07:47 < willPow3r> fenn, mind if i twitter your mom?
07:56 < willPow3r> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-12/osoa-eat121608.php
07:57 < fenn> that's interesting
07:58 < fenn> i wouldnt think they compete for light by shading out others since most of the cells nearby would be related (clones)
08:08 < ybit> [23:17] <kanzure_> ybit: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/10/economic-defini.html#comment-136930723 
08:08 < ybit> ^ your point?
08:08 < ybit> is this part of your collection of jef's comments?
14:24 < kanzure_> ybit: http://xkcd.com/512/
15:24 < kanzure_> "the distribution of leukemia among children living hear high voltage
15:24 < kanzure_> power lines or transformers is not random; rather, it affects children
15:24 < kanzure_> carrying a certain genetic variant--that is, the ability to repair DNA
15:24 < kanzure_> breaks--vastly more often."
15:56 < kanzure_> "Now from
15:56 < kanzure_> Turberfield's group comes a paper showing that DNA has the potential not
15:56 < kanzure_> just to make static structures, but to make functioning machines."
15:56 < kanzure_> http://ftp.aip.org/epaps/phys_rev_lett/E-PRLTAO-101-091848/Coordinated_chemomechanical_cycles_EPAPS.pdf
16:25 < drazak> that paper must be oldish
17:44 < kanzure_> ok, I've expanded it:
17:44 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/eli.html
17:44 < kanzure_> now with actual content instead of a ridiculous number of links
18:17 < ybit> :)
18:17 < ybit> thanks
20:06 < kanzure_> Does anybody know why browser HTML layout engines are so nasty to write, and why we bothered making crappy things so standardized? Anybody?
21:23 < kanzure_> http://mathstat.helsinki.fi/openbugs/Home.html BUGS (Bayesian inference Using Gibbs Sampling) is a piece of computer software for the Bayesian analysis of complex statistical models using Markov chain Monte Carlo (MCMC) methods. It has been developing and maturing over the years, and is probably best known in its WinBugs incarnations. The latest version can run on Windows and Linux, as well as from inside the R statistical package.
21:23 < kanzure_> http://mathstat.helsinki.fi/openbugs/
21:29 < Phreedom> kanzure_: why do you think html layout is crappy?
21:30 < Phreedom> and a typical layout engine is a contstraint propagation solver
21:30 < Phreedom> no more and no less
22:51 < fenn> supposedly DNA is superconductive
22:52 < fenn> even if not, there are a lot of turns in those coils, making for a high ratio transformer
22:52 < fenn> so i don't think it's totally unreasonable to assume that magnetic fields could affect DNA
22:53 < fenn> the thing is, high voltage power lines don't carry that much current
23:42 < gene> DNA is superconductive
23:43 < gene> ???
23:56 < fenn> no not really
23:56 < fenn> but it appears to be if you use rhenium electrodes
23:57 < fenn> of course this makes one wonder why nobody's jumping on the rhenium-doped-DNA bandwagon