--- Day changed Sat Jan 24 2009
00:02 < genehacker> well I would do it if it worked
00:05 < genehacker> jeez, I don't know what excuse I can have for shaving my head
00:05 < kanzure3> cancer
00:06 < genehacker> yeah then I have to have to learn all about cancer so I can keep my stories straight
00:06 < kanzure> hm, I need to hunt down Osaka, Kitamura and Mizoguchi [5,31]
00:08 < genehacker> yes I would
00:09 < genehacker> I want to get a brain implant as soon as they're safe
00:09 < genehacker> I want to get a brain implant as soon as they're safe
00:09 < genehacker> oops
00:19 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_direct_current_stimulation
00:19 < genehacker> hmmmm.... induces noticeable psychological changes, I might want to read up on what exactly those were
00:30 < genehacker> hmmm... 10-30 minutes of stimulation is good for five hours
00:32 < kanzure> have we talked about RoBlock in here before?
00:35 < genehacker> no
00:35 < genehacker> wait yes
00:35 < genehacker> I think so
00:37 < genehacker> where's the right orbita?
00:37 < kanzure> What?
00:38 < genehacker> In the
00:38 < genehacker> first experiment, different electrode positions were tested to find the
00:38 < genehacker> optimal positions for DC stimulation. In the subsequent experiments,
00:38 < genehacker> the optimal electrode arrangement (motor cortex—forehead above
00:38 < genehacker> the contralateral orbita),
00:39 < kanzure> rawr, this is why I was working on a 3D model viewer of the brain last year
00:39 < kanzure> I wanted to tag regions with the many different names that they are given just for this purpose..
00:39 < kanzure> "show me teh cerebellums!"
00:39 < genehacker> well guess what?
00:40 < genehacker> you get to learn all about regions of the brain in pyschology, or at least the names of them
00:41 < kanzure> no you don't, I've been through psych
00:41 < genehacker> oh
00:41 < genehacker> that's what one my friends said
00:41 < kanzure> I learned more about the brain going through ontology lists than I have ever in all of my years in psych classes
00:41 < kanzure> blah, don't listen to them
00:41 < kanzure> hold on a sec.
00:41 < kanzure> aww crap
00:41 < fenn> genehacker: sponge+salt water electrodes
00:41 < kanzure> well, if I was on my laptop,
00:41 < genehacker> that is what it is fenn
00:41 < kanzure> I have this huge section of my bookmarks for structures of the brain
00:42 < kanzure> it lists >200 regions
00:42 < kanzure> (only about ~12 are ever mentioned in psych classes..)
00:42 < genehacker> heck that's practically what the commercial unit is
00:42 < genehacker> I just don't want to shave my head
00:43 < fenn> i dont think you need to shave anything
00:44 < genehacker> the electrodes are 35 cm sq
00:44 < fenn> 3.5cm radius is not terribly large
00:45 < kanzure3> http://www.sisostds.org/ simulation interoperability standards organization
00:45 < kanzure3> what is a base object model (BOM) and how is it not a Bill of Materials (BOM)?
00:46 < kanzure3> http://www.simventions.com/boms/
00:46 < fenn> god that paper would be so much less annoying if they called things "interface" instead of "port"
00:47 < fenn> but then i guess they wouldn't have anything because it'd be so obvious
00:48 < fenn> is this part of the basis for design repo silliness?
00:48 < fenn> i havent read the phrase 'mechanical flow' anywhere else (no gene, it's not anything like optic flow)
00:48 < kanzure> what?
00:48 < kanzure> oh
00:49 < kanzure> this is just me googling around for legos+interoperability
00:49 < kanzure> but it turns out that that 'port ontology' paper was cited by a paper by Tolga, the guy that I sort of replace at ADL.
00:49 < kanzure> (via the "citations" Google link..)
00:49 < kanzure> erm, "cited by" link.
00:50 < genehacker> hmmmm... this paper on tDCS had a sample size of 19
00:52 < kanzure> ew, the port-ontology paper just turns into "tag it with lego-circular-shape"
00:55 < kanzure> page 208 (pg 3), where the Kitamura and Mizoguchi paragraph is located, is what I found the more interesting
00:56 < kanzure> in their paper, they separate objects that "augment the value of feedstock" versus the 'conduits' which try to maintain the value as much as possible (conduits being the "glue" between an output port and an input port somewhere) - 'stasis'
00:56 < kanzure> but all of these 'ontologies' suck immensely and are the wrong approach
00:56 < kanzure> (another aspect of their paper was "a functional way", so as to separate POV of different actors entering information..)
01:01 < kanzure> hm
01:01 < kanzure> my rebel spies inform me that this would totally be the time to make suggestions for rebranding and restructuring of the Singularity Institute
01:03 < genehacker> http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00757497
01:04 < genehacker> This study will test whether transcranial direct current stimulation (TDCS) can be used safely in children with schizophrenia and if it can improve memory and attention span or auditory hallucinations in these children, at least temporarily. TDCS has temporarily improved memory and attention span in healthy adults and a similar method called TMS has relieved auditory hallucinations in adults...
01:04 < genehacker> ...with schizophrenia.
01:04 < genehacker> ;)
01:04 < genehacker> improved attention span with electricity to the head
01:05 < kanzure> for "improved attention span", please see-
01:05 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Sustained_attention
01:08 < fenn> improved auditory hallucinations
01:08 < fenn> does it come with bluetooth?
01:13 < genehacker> speaking of that
01:13 < genehacker> fenn, ever watched ghost in the shell?
01:13 < fenn> certainly
01:13 < genehacker> well you know how they all talked without talking?
01:13 < genehacker> we have the technology to do that
01:14 < fenn> the electrodes you put on your neck?
01:14 < kanzure> subvocalization cheap trickery? :/
01:14 < genehacker> no, a throat microphone
01:14 < fenn> throat microphone doesn't count
01:14 < genehacker> http://www.clearercom.com/
01:14 < genehacker> it's close enough
01:15 < fenn> bah
01:15 < genehacker> saw one at an outdoor store the other day designed for use by hunters
01:16 < genehacker> of course it was in the bargain bin...
01:16 < fenn> " An electrode implanted in the patient's brain made it possible for the patient to produce vowels by thinking them, using a speech synthesizer"
01:16 < fenn> that's a bit more invasive than i'm thinking
01:16 < genehacker> oh yeah I remember that one
01:16 < kanzure> sufficiently invasive to grab my attention
01:16 < fenn> this was a throat cuff with an array of like 16 electrodes over the trachea
01:17 < fenn> it was mentioned in this channel a while ago
01:17 < kanzure> was it the one about the browser?
01:17 < fenn> oh wait maybe they were using it to drive a wheelchair or something
01:17 < genehacker> though we really need something like in GITS people talking on the phone can be quite annoying
01:18 < fenn> i'd rather text-based communication became more prevalet
01:20 < kanzure> I shouldn't be thinking at this hour of the night
01:20 < kanzure> but should I implement my command line interoperability stuff?
01:20 < kanzure> it'll work, but I'm not convinced that it is analogous to the skdb stuff any mroe
01:20 < kanzure> *more
01:21 < genehacker> hey kanzure, they got parkour training by the tower at 10 in the morning
01:21 < kanzure> parkour?
01:21 < kanzure> I'm already booked
01:21 < kanzure> my comp sci teacher from 2005 is paying me a visit :)
01:21 < genehacker> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jquXcwooV6A
01:22 < genehacker> ah fun
01:22 < genehacker> when I took compsci, my teacher got fired for mysterious reasons
01:22 < fenn> reminds me of "mystic arts of the ninja"
01:23 < genehacker> he was a really cool guy too, gave out copies of certain softwarez
01:24 < genehacker> ended up learning about how to play flashgames and write html code the rest of the year instead of CNC machining or other fun stuff
01:24 < kanzure> "html code"
01:24 < kanzure> orly
01:25 < fenn> it's about as much of a programming language as g-code
01:25 < genehacker> yeah
01:25 < genehacker> though I forgot most of it
01:25 < genehacker> hmmm... what's cognitive safety?
01:26 < genehacker> I'll I can find is weird how to manage people bs
01:27 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-20_system_(EEG)
01:28 < genehacker> how's that for a brain model kanzure?
01:28 < genehacker> standardized eeg placement locations, also used in placement of TMS
01:35 < genehacker> http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/112702866/PDFSTART
01:36 < genehacker> according to standard attention measuring tests, tDCS resulted in a 40-60% improvement above baseline
01:38 < genehacker> n = 18
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11:40 < kanzure3> http://ejohn.org/blog/ocr-and-neural-nets-in-javascript/   
11:40 < kanzure3> Heh. GreaseMonkey userscript (javascript) OCR for solving Megaupload captchas.
11:43 < kanzure3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN60Ob5x7f0 Autodesk Labs Project Draw
11:43 < kanzure3> http://draw.labs.autodesk.com/ADDraw/draw.html
11:43 < kanzure3> 2D AJAX diagramming thingy.
11:43 < kanzure3> I wonder if they are interested in doing 2D CAD nonsense in the browser?
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13:36 < kanzure3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgBgmw-2U8c NASA ISS tour
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16:22 < kanzure> Hi Sam.
16:22 < kanzure> I think your proposal to only keep the drupal-enabled site as a 'showcase' fell on deaf ears ('cept me :-))
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16:44 < kanzure> hm, MIT used to have a project called "LEGO Constructopedia"
16:53 < kanzure3> http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/Designing%20effective%20step-by-step%20assembly%20instructions.pdf  designing effective step-by-step assembly instructions
16:53 < kanzure3> in that paper, they use a "planner" to figure out a good sequence for assembling some given object from multiple parts
16:53 < kanzure3> I'm pretty sure s/planner/wizard/ (in terms of what we've called it before) is sufficient
17:01 < kanzure> hahah!
17:01 < kanzure> designosaur
17:27 < kanzure3> computer-aided tool selection  <-- another buzzword
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17:51 < kanzure> Why do USB male/female adapters not look like IEEE 1394 adapters?
18:02 < kanzure3> http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/  pg 76 of the USB 3.0 spec has the diagrams.
18:05 < kanzure> anyway, for interop purposes, just include a "USB" part in the assembly - screw tagging. USB doesn't look like 1394 because it's all based off of typical part mating..
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18:12 < ppk> bryan have you seen the scribd diybio section?
18:13 < kanzure> Not yet, no. How much is there?
18:13 < ppk> not much
18:13 < ppk> I don't know much about it either
18:13 < ppk> beyond that it's supposed to be a more accessible alternative to your git repository
18:14 < ppk> diybio has 70 gigs of scientific papers to distribute
18:14 < ppk> we should be able to parse them all somehow
18:14 < kanzure> I sent a hard drive up to them.
18:15 < kanzure> Actually, I sent it up to the fablab people. Go ask the Boston Fab Lab for my hard drive and get a copy.
18:15 < ppk> yeah I was in somerville on wednesday
18:15 < kanzure> hm?
18:15 < kanzure> were they handing out copies?
18:15 < ppk> no
18:15 < ppk> but we did talk about finding a way to easily distribute the papers
18:15 < ppk> in a way that won't get people in trouble
18:15 < kanzure> torrents.
18:15 < ppk> but is also very easy
18:15 < kanzure> debtorrents, etc.
18:16 < ppk> and keeps the papers parsable
18:16 < kanzure> Alec has been mentioning that he is cooking something up.
18:16 < kanzure> well, part of the problem is that most PDFs suck anyway
18:16 < kanzure> and are just image scans
18:16 < ppk> yeah
18:16 < kanzure> the Science Commons folks have prodded me in the past for some thoughts on image segmentation algorithms
18:16 < ppk> I agree
18:16 < kanzure> to separate graphs, figures, etc., from the text
18:16 < ppk> yeah
18:17 < ppk> well I'm checking out scribd now
18:17 < kanzure> imagine a simple script: ./image-segment my.pdf and out pops fig1.png, fig2.png, fig3.png
18:17 < ppk> it has mac's attention for some reason
18:17 < ppk> http://www.scribd.com/group/66598-diybio
18:17 < ppk> and ywah that would be an awesome script
18:18 < kanzure> I only see a handful of papers there .. 6
18:18 < kanzure> whereas I mailed 120,000 to Boston :p
18:18 < ppk> right
18:18 < kanzure> get to work! :)
18:18 < ppk> this scribd doesn't seem much better than torrents
18:18 < kanzure> seems worse to me, IMHO
18:18 < ppk> papers aren't parsable here either
18:18 < kanzure> bad experience loading the pages too
18:18 < ppk> personally I would just make a private tracker
18:18 < kanzure> nothing wrong with torrents
18:19 < kanzure> right
18:19 < kanzure> I'd host it, but my upload speed is shit
18:19 < kanzure> I mean, a tracker doesn't need to have a high upload speed
18:19 < kanzure> but it helps
18:19 < ppk> especially when you're distributing papers
18:19 < kanzure> superseed mode I guess
18:20 < ppk> seedboxes aren't super expensive
18:20 < ppk> and I'm willing to seed a copy of my own
18:20 < kanzure> that's right, there's a few sites now that let you pay a bit for 'em
18:20 < kanzure> you should go bring an external hard drive with you and go track down whoever currently has a copy of the hdd that I sent up there :)
18:20 < kanzure> it will take maybe 8 hours to copy over
18:20 < ppk> mac cowell has it
18:20 < kanzure> oh goodie
18:21 < kanzure> didn't know.
18:21 < ppk> well when he presented this problem the first thing I said was use a private tracker
18:21 < ppk> but it needs to be easily searchable
18:21 < ppk> so I need to find a way to automate 'uploading' the torrents
18:22 < ppk> nobody will do 120k by hand
18:22 < kanzure> what?
18:22 < kanzure> oh, so you don't want a super-massive 70 GB torrent?
18:22 < ppk> unless you wanted to throw all the papers in one torrent
18:22 < kanzure> well that'd be a good start
18:22 < ppk> right, I think that would be cumbersome
18:22 < ppk> but, it's easy
18:22 < kanzure> anyway, it was my understanding that there are some shell utilities to do torrent packaging
18:23 < kanzure> and if so, that just means one would have to split the directory index into sections of, say, 10k papers
18:23 < kanzure> which again is a task fit for a shell script
18:23 < ppk> that would be more manageable
18:24 < ppk> perhaps people would be willing to download the entire torrent if they were granulated small enough
18:24 < kanzure> ppk, I suspect that people would be interested in downloading it regardless
18:24 < kanzure> there's an amazing super awesome nerd factor in knowing that you have downloaded the entirety of Nature
18:24 < ppk> yeah
18:24 < ppk> well, here's hoping
18:25 < ppk> I didn't know that Mac got the papers from you
18:25 < kanzure3> Port-Compatibility and Connectability Based Assembly Design
18:25 < kanzure3> J. Comput. Inf. Sci. Eng.  -- September 2004 --  Volume 4,  Issue 3, 197 (9 pages) 
18:25 < kanzure3> DOI:10.1115/1.1779659
18:25 < kanzure3> is anyone able to get this? 
18:25 < kanzure> yeah, I didn't know he got them from me either
18:25 < kanzure> I was expecting it to circulate around up there, glad it got to the diybio folks.
18:26 < ppk> are you familiar with what.cd?
18:26 < kanzure> no, but a friend of mine used to be a big member
18:26 < kanzure> something about interviews for entry :)
18:27 < ppk> it's the best/most popular music torrent site
18:27 < kanzure> didn't it die?
18:27 < ppk> I'd like to do something similar for diybio
18:27 < ppk> albeit less elitist
18:27 < ppk> very much alive
18:28 < ppk> have an invite only community - that way you can minimize leechers and people trying to stop the distribution of papers
18:30 < kanzure3> http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/Port-compatibility%20and%20connectability%20based%20assembly%20design.pdf
18:30  * kanzure3 had to ssh in as a professor to get that..
18:31 < ppk> lol
18:31 < ppk> have you heard of tom knight's ftp?
18:31 < kanzure> No?
18:31 < kanzure> gimme gimme gimme
18:32 < ppk> he has an ftp with a user/pass he unwittingly gives to people
18:32 < ppk> wink wink nudge nudge
18:32 < ppk> I forget the user/pass, I'm sure Mac has it though
18:32 < kanzure> what's the server?
18:33 < ppk> someone mentioned it when we were talking about distributing the papers
18:33 < ppk> dunno
18:33 < ppk> but supposedly it has a lot of papers on it
18:33 < kanzure> hopefully not as much as me :-)
18:33 < kanzure> I might have to go beat my own record
18:33 < ppk> heh
18:33 < ppk> well
18:33 < kanzure> I was attempting to do a total rip of ScienceDirect last year,
18:33 < ppk> my terabyte can't come soon enough
18:33 < kanzure> but I didn't bother when I realized how much I hate their site
18:34 < ppk> mmm
18:34 < ppk> dinner, bbl
18:40 < kanzure3> http://www.part-solutions.com/index_main.asp
18:45 < fenn> gee i wish i could make money selling part-solutions
18:45 < kanzure3> the paper that I last linked to has a description of their service on page 2
18:45 < fenn> a catalog of things that almost work?
18:45 < kanzure3> they seem to provide a 'configuration model' that complements some CAD data
18:46 < kanzure3> but I'm unable to determine if it's just physical/mechanical connections, or if they are magically doing something more
18:47 < kanzure3> 'configuration model' is a terrible name. The paper says that their configuration model consists of 'connection points'- what does that have to do with configuration?
18:47 < kanzure3> guess it's sorta related in a hack-eyed way..
18:57 < fenn> they're wrong about lego, most lego instructions use action diagrams
18:57 < kanzure> pg 6 gets interesting
18:57 < kanzure> between 2 and 6 I must have been on Mars
19:02 < fenn> wow this paper is quite old
19:02 < kanzure> 2004?
19:03 < fenn> ... ok nevermind
19:03 < fenn> they were running stuff on a 500MHz SGI workstation
19:04 < kanzure> that's about my 1998 box (the server)
19:06 < fenn> well, that's a very cool paper, i hope something Free comes along eventually
19:06 < kanzure> hrm. so it turns out that they don't really go into detail about 'working principle' (applied forces, etc.)
19:07 < kanzure> 'permissible forces, torques, etc.'
19:07 < fenn> no it's all geometry
19:08 < fenn> "permissible forces" would require arduous FEA at each step or proposed step
19:08 < kanzure> wouldn't that be specified by the designer though?
19:08 < fenn> uh, i dunno?
19:08 < kanzure> the previous two sections before that were talking about labels
19:08 < kanzure> which would be manually typed in, presumably
19:08 < kanzure> (the paper then says how much labels suck (yay))
19:10 < fenn> forward to OM?
19:11 < kanzure> should I include the link to the PDF?
19:13 < fenn> ya
19:13 < fenn> the website doesnt mean much to me
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19:37 < kanzure> fenn: heh. "therefore function is insufficient for evaluating compatibility"
19:37 < kanzure> unfortunately, Rob Stone, one of the guys running VOICED from another university,
19:38 < kanzure> and Wood, the professor in the manufacturing/design lab (parent lab to ADL), 
19:38 < kanzure> wrote "Development of a Functional Basis for Design"
19:38 < kanzure> *do'h*
19:38 < fenn> well, he's right
19:44 < genehacker> Wood as in Kristen L Wood?
19:45 < kanzure> yes, I believe so.
19:45 < kanzure> the mechanical guy
19:46 < genehacker> do you know what research he does in Solid Freeform Fabrication?
19:47 < kanzure> He doesn't any more.
19:47 < kanzure> He now helps run the parent lab to ADL
19:47 < genehacker> ok
19:48 < genehacker> I want to know what this university does in the way of SFF research
19:50 < kanzure> hey isn't there a site that lets you search government grants to researchers?
19:50 < kanzure> and wasn't there also a way to narrow down the search by the institution and keywords?
19:51 < genehacker> nevermind
19:51 < genehacker> found the universities site on it
19:54 < genehacker> interesting, someone here is trying to do nanolithography freeform fabrication
19:54 < genehacker> I wonder how that works out
19:54 < kanzure> link?
19:54 < genehacker> http://utwired.engr.utexas.edu/lff/research/#SURF
19:54 < kanzure> TM 3
19:55 < genehacker> ???
19:55 < kanzure> <--- has the dual functionality of also being a giant associative pokemon lookup table
19:56 < kanzure> surf was TM 3, "technical machine 3"
19:57 < genehacker> found a cool paper, can't find the paper though
19:57 < genehacker> D.Y. Fozdar, W. Zhang, M. Palard, C.W. Patrick, S.C. Chen, “Flash Imprint Lithography Using a Mask Aligner:  a Method for Printing Nanostructures in Photosensitive Hydrogels,” Nanotechnology, Vol. 19, pp. 215303 (1-13), 2008.
19:58 < kanzure> ooh
19:58 < genehacker> http://www.me.utexas.edu/~scchen/publications.html
19:58 < genehacker> here we go
19:58 < kanzure> this other paper that I'm reading, ref 8 from the previous one,
19:59 < kanzure> has a full assembly planner implementation
19:59 < kanzure> page 385 (17 of the PDF)- 'rotate pallet/trunion .. insert PART-23 .. orient and install DETECTOR-0"
19:59 < kanzure3> http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/A%20prototype%20of%20feature-based%20design%20for%20assembly.pdf
20:00 < kanzure> huh, also a task planner for reconfiguring a flexible manufacturing floor .. wtf? this must be bullshit
20:01 < genehacker> http://www.me.utexas.edu/~scchen/pdf/2007JVST.pdf
20:04 < kanzure> UV lamp heh
20:04 < genehacker> well I'll be
20:11 < genehacker> one of the papers mentioned in a paper about membraneless filtration was written by that guy
20:35 < kanzure> fenn: so I went through an entire conversation with you without knowing that we were talking about two different papers
20:35 < kanzure> huh..
20:36 < fenn> yeah i was sort of confused what that german website had to do with anything
20:38 < fenn> i guess i skipped a couple pages while reading the backlog
20:44 < kanzure> anyway, just for completeness' sake, /books/Manufacturing/ always has the last-modified option so that you can see the latest papers dumped in there.
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21:09 < kanzure> my inbox has been talking to itself today about a few cases of parents taking their kids to Costa Rica for a stem cell therapy treatment for autism
21:10 < kanzure> the youtube video shows little girls getting injections through the wrist
21:11 < kanzure3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0ZanIBoGHU&feature=related
21:11 < kanzure3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlSaXCzLW6w&feature=related
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22:34 < kanzure3> http://www.secretlifeofmachines.com/
22:38 < kanzure3> http://www.timhunkin.com/
22:40 < kanzure3> http://www.timhunkin.com/44_secretlifeofmachines2.htm  huh, he encourages people to grab his tv show via torrenting
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23:31 < genehacker> check this out
23:31 < genehacker> http://micromanufacturing.com/showthread.php?t=399
23:33 < genehacker> 0.5 mm borescope
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