--- Day changed Sat Feb 21 2009
00:00 < fenn> i'm not convinced the author has anything at alll
00:00 < gene> what's a UHV
00:00 < kanzure> ‰http://heybryan.org/projects/atoms/
00:00 < kanzure> ultra-high vacuum
00:00 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/projects/atoms/
00:00 < gene> scroll down and read it fenn
00:00 < kanzure> start at the part that mentions 'vacuum'
00:00 < gene> the basic idea
00:00 < fenn> gene: i read it.
00:00 < gene> the whole damn thing?
00:00 < fenn> yes the whole damn thing
00:00 < gene> why?
00:01 < fenn> because it's interesting
00:01 < gene> I don't think you could use thin films
00:01 < fenn> but i think the electrons would just recombine with the positive charges in the walls
00:01 < kanzure> magnetic confinement?
00:01 < gene> that's why you insulate them
00:01 < gene> nope
00:01 < gene> electrostatic
00:01 < fenn> it reminds me of the space fountain for some reason
00:02 < fenn> dynamic compression members
00:02 < gene> BECAUSE IT IS
00:02 < fenn> not exactly
00:02 < fenn> there's no current necessarily
00:02 < fenn> with a space fountain you need a return circuit
00:02 < fenn> "a circuit"
00:03 < gene> http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0704/0704.3466.pdf
00:03 < gene> so here's the basic idea behind the AB tube
00:03 < fenn> btw gene while you're still young i'd suggest making a well sorted index of interesting papers/ideas
00:03 < fenn> so that 20 years down the road you dont have a huge pile of ccrap to sort through
00:03 < kanzure> bibtex for every paper you've ever read
00:03  * kanzure glances at his archive of every paper he's ever read
00:04 < gene> you charge the outside of a well insulated rod positively and get electrons inside of it somehow
00:04 < gene> because it's round it means the electrons on the inside experience no force at all attracting them to the walls
00:05 < gene> if your tube is infinitely long and uniform...
00:05 < gene> I think
00:05 < fenn> i dont buy the "electrons experience no force at all attracting them to the walls"
00:06 < fenn> its like the ringworld goofup
00:06 < gene> you must be kidding me
00:06 < fenn> everything's fine when you look at the equations, but when you run the numerical simulation it goes to shit
00:06 < gene> didn't you take highschool physics
00:06 < fenn> yes, equal potential inside of a conductor
00:06 < gene> ever heard of the hollow planet problem?
00:06 < fenn> mathematical masturbation
00:07 < gene> DO NOT INSULT THE MATH GOD!
00:07  * fenn flings poo!
00:07 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/ede.html math god
00:07 < gene> ok
00:07 < gene> now now
00:07 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/edeism.html
00:07 < gene> But really I don't see why it wouldn't
00:08 < kanzure> "I learned-if that is the right word for knowledge which comes in a
00:08 < kanzure> sudden flash of insight-I was given to understand that She manipulated
00:08 < kanzure> whole sciences and thought systems as I might string words into a
00:08 < kanzure> sentence. But her "sentences" were as huge and profound as the
00:08 < kanzure> utterances of the universe itself She had reached truths and ways of
00:08 < kanzure> knowing far beyond even the meta-philosophies of the alien Fravashi."
00:08  * kanzure digresses
00:08 < fenn> better without that last random sentence
00:08 < gene> can we at least try to make one?
00:08 < fenn> "who are the fravashi"
00:08 < gene> just for the heck of it?
00:09 < fenn> sure, please go ahead, try  not to kill yourself or any bystanders
00:09 < gene> I am having trouble figuring out how one would get electrons into it
00:09 < fenn> an electron gun
00:10 < gene> that you shoot through the positively charged outer wall?
00:10 < fenn> seriously though, this shouldnt be your first HV or vacuum project
00:10 < gene> good
00:10 < gene> because it isn't
00:10 < fenn> ah the real world intrudes
00:10 < fenn> the math god is displeased
00:10 < gene> made a weak vacuum pump
00:11 < fenn> with silicone tubing?
00:11 < gene> fenn I FUCKING WORSHIP THE MATH GOD
00:11 < gene> in fact, if I don't my job becomes a lot harder
00:11 < fenn> wha'ts your job? believing whatever you read? :P
00:11 < gene> I'm an engineer
00:11 < gene> in training
00:11 < fenn> O RLY
00:12 < gene> you know all those big buildings?
00:12 < fenn> damn lag.. making me look like an ass
00:12 < gene> math helps
00:14 < gene> ok so first fab lab project
00:14 < gene> make this:
00:14 < kanzure> electrostatic recipricator
00:14 < gene> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/de0d99cdab3a816c
00:15 < gene> nah how about kinetic antigravitators
00:15 < kanzure> because les would like an electrostatic recipricator
00:15 < kanzure> but also because it sounds like a good idea- "not dying" and stuff
00:15 < fenn> OMFG i just realized i forgot the PCB drills
00:15 < kanzure> system failure after all this?
00:15  * fenn faints dramatically
00:15 < kanzure> how'd that happen.
00:16 < fenn> by shuffling lots of stuff around between fishtubs (because i couldnt just take them all)
00:16 < gene> fenn I'm sure a drill press will do just fine
00:16 < gene> electrostatic recipricator
00:17 < gene> hmmm....
00:17 < fenn> cutters/tooling and chucks/fixtures/accessories got sifted and mergedinto "machinist stuff"
00:17 < gene> less chance of sappin
00:17 < fenn> gene: i mean the drill bits
00:17 < gene> semiconductors
00:17 < gene> argh
00:18 < fenn> see, there's nothing more fab-lab than PCB drill bits
00:18 < fenn> it's the icon of post-industrial commodity
00:19 < gene> why?
00:19 < fenn> because they're basically impossible to make on your own
00:19 < gene> what are they made from?
00:19 < fenn> tungsten carbide
00:19 < gene> ok
00:20 < fenn> um, actually iron carbide with tungsten added
00:20 < kanzure> I saw a cool use of tungsten carbide the other day
00:20 < gene> O
00:20 < kanzure> I think it was on how it's made season 10 episode blah, 
00:20 < gene> shit
00:20 < kanzure> it was probably drill bits.
00:20 < gene> O'RLY
00:20 < gene> http://www.deskeng.com/articles/aaanjr.htm
00:21 < fenn> gene how do you drill through the pcb?
00:21 < fenn> i guess a laser could work.. wonder why nobody's doing that
00:21 < gene> you make your own damn drill
00:21 < gene> make the drill bit via ECM
00:22 < kanzure> gene: do you have a bookmarks file?
00:22 < gene> yeah
00:22 < gene> a big one
00:22 < kanzure> would you email it to me?
00:22 < kanzure> yeah, we all have big ones
00:22 < kanzure> my bookmarks file is 15,000 and 3.2 MB, but it's in Opera's ADR format
00:22 < gene> why?
00:22 < kanzure> I'd like to see yours
00:22 < gene> o shit
00:22 < kanzure> I collect them, harvest them
00:23 < fenn> you will be assimilated. resistance is futile.
00:23 < kanzure> <linkdump spam>
00:23 < gene> I wonder if I have my old bookmarks folder
00:23 < gene> hehheheheheh
00:23 < gene> though I suspect that my old one suffers from a bit of link rot
00:23 < kanzure> the wayback machine knows all
00:24 < kanzure> yeah, so anyway, a zip file would be neat.
00:25 < gene> well I don't know if it is as big
00:25 < gene> it's not sorted
00:25 < kanzure> that's fine
00:29 < gene> you might find it interesting
00:29 < kanzure> that's why I want it
00:32 < gene> http://www.stuartcanvas.co.uk/sports/cricket/the_hover_cover.html
00:32 < gene> enjoy this for now
00:32 < gene> while I figure out how to send you my bookmarks
00:33 < kanzure> zip file?
00:33 < kanzure> why don't you have a server yet anyway?
00:33 < gene> it's too bad all my flashloop links have rotted though
00:33 < gene> uh
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00:49 < gene> exporting
00:49 < kanzure> lengthy?
00:49 < gene> I don't think it will be too bad
00:49 < gene> btw, how much americium is there in a smoke detector?
00:50 < fenn> it says right on the device
00:50 < gene> in grams not curies
00:50 < fenn> xx microcuries
00:51 < kanzure> fenn: when you said 1 am, you meant in general, right?
00:51 < fenn> probably about 1 gram
00:51 < gene> 1 gram?
00:51 < fenn> not enriched or anything
00:51 < gene> hahahahha
00:51 < fenn> i mean not purified
00:51 < gene> what do you mean not enriched?
00:52 < fenn> i mean the pellet isn't all americium
00:52 < fenn> its some other element that's been bombarded
00:53 < gene> http://www.lateralscience.co.uk/spin/index.html
00:53 < gene> I've heard it's fairly pure
00:53 < fenn> kanzure: either way.. i'm feeling tired now though
00:53 < gene> same here
00:54 < kanzure> it's totally up to you.
00:54 < fenn> ok i'm going to take a shower
00:54 < kanzure> that doesn't tell me
00:54 < fenn> doesnt tell you what?
00:54 < gene> the critical mass of americium is 60 kg so it takes about 60000 smoke detectors to make a nuclear bomb
00:54 < gene> yikes
00:54 < kanzure> whether or not the shower is because you want to go out and about, or if it's because you tend to shower before sleeping
00:54 < fenn> it's because i need a shower
00:55 < kanzure> you sir play a tough game
00:55 < fenn> hah
00:55 < gene> shit
00:55 < fenn> i'm going to take a shower and then go to bed
00:55 < kanzure> okay.
00:55 < gene> I should have gone to bed an hour ago
00:56 < fenn> there's a cat in heat that woke me up early
00:56 < fenn> sounds like she's dying right now
00:56 < gene> ugh
00:56  * kanzure used to have a kitten that would chase him (playfully) at night
00:57 < gene> I have a dog, a deviously smart dog
00:57 < kanzure> was not a tiger.
00:57 < gene> not here
00:57 < fenn> TMI
00:58 < kanzure> ?
00:58 < fenn> i know about you anime freaks
00:58 < fenn> I KNOW
00:58 < kanzure> I must be missing a reference
00:59 < gene> pineapple salad fenn
00:59 < kanzure> cats -> dogs -> anime?
00:59 < fenn> deculture! yakk
00:59 < gene> pineapple salad
01:00 < gene> I just don't understand why
01:00 < gene> all for that pineapple salad
01:01  * fenn goes hunting in the car for a can of pineapples, now that you mention it
01:02 < kanzure> http://www.yakkdeculture.com/music/ hm.
01:03 < kanzure> minmay..
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07:48 < kanzure> yay, ted hall posts again to om
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12:25 < kanzure> hm, marcin just called me
12:25 < kanzure> had a good talk
12:25 < kanzure> good thing to wake up to.
12:26  * kanzure goes down for breakfast
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13:47 < wrldpc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntY01qoIdus
13:55 < kanzure> what is it?
13:55 < kanzure> ah, ray's movie
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14:40 < kanzure> gene: bookmarks?
14:41 < gene> ok Now I just need to figure out where I exported them to and remove all my passwords from it
14:42 < gene> jkj
14:42 < gene> I don't keep my passwords on my computer
14:50 < kanzure> :p why would they be in the bookmarks anyway?
14:54 < gene> joking
14:54 < gene> so How do I send them to you?
14:54 < gene> google talk
14:55 < gene> how about via rocket?
14:56 < fenn> lighttpd is about a minute's worth of setup time
14:56 < gene> Kanzure can you give me your coordinates to with 3 feet?
14:59 < gene> sent
15:01 < gene> now listen lulzy muzak
15:01 < gene> *listen to lulzy muzak
15:02 < gene> I dare you
15:08 < gene> http://gsl.erdc.usace.army.mil/gl-history/images/gl_img_99.jpg
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15:34 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/om.html
15:34 < kanzure> updated the index of interesting threads.
15:34 < kanzure> an attempt was made to keep it in order of interestingness, but it also happens to somewhat match chronological descending order.
15:36 < fenn> "Everyone I know can shit out a government consortium"?
15:36 < kanzure> sarcasm
15:37 < fenn> oh
15:37 < kanzure> or humor, it's kind of a mix
15:38 < fenn> thanks for the index; i doubt i'll ever actually go back and read every message
15:38 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/bookmarks/gene's_bookmarks.html
15:39 < kanzure> fenn: I don't expect you to go back and read every message
15:39 < kanzure> or anyone for that matter
15:39 < kanzure> it's more so that we can show newbies this index.
15:39 < kanzure> "just look here for interesting stuff to read."
15:41 < kanzure> gene: http://www.rsc.org/publishing/journals/LC/article.asp?doi=b805137b microfluidic assembly blocks
15:41 < kanzure> see, this is why I wanted your bookmarks,
15:41 < kanzure> you probably totally forgot about that
15:42 < kanzure> {" 
15:42 < kanzure> One of the runners-up for the biobricks lifeform category of our Mad Science Contest was Jonathan Cline who described what"
15:42 < kanzure> btw, Jonathan Cline has moved to Austin as well, he and I are lunching some time soon
15:46 < kanzure> heh, eric suggests installing some beds on a second floor in the fablab
15:46 < kanzure> because it takes a few hours to get there even for people like me, letting some people stay the weekend to work on projects would be ideal
15:46 < kanzure> I'd pay premium for a fablab hotel
15:49 < kanzure> fwd'd.
16:05 < gene> you know in japan, they have beds in the macdonalds
16:10 < gene> http://www.boingboing.net/2009/02/14/mcdonalds-hotel.html
16:10 < gene> pics so it happend
16:11 < gene> http://www.dannychoo.com/adp/eng/1096/Japan+Public+Sleeping.html
16:19 < kanzure> fenn: eh. I've screwed up. natasha is going to stop by the fab lab today. I don't know what you should say to her, since she's more into arts. I think "$225, 80x10, transhumans encouraged". 
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16:42 < gene> who is natasha?
16:50 < kanzure> http://natasha.cc/
16:50 < kanzure> transhumanist, she helped to co-found the Extropy Institute from the 80s
16:50 < kanzure> think: jupiter brains, wearables, etc.
16:53 < kanzure> fenn: how much is a hobby man year? is that "The Weekend Engineer tinkering in his shed" sort of stuff?
16:53 < fenn> heheh "transhumans encouraged"
16:53 < fenn> yes
16:54 < kanzure> okay, she might not be stopping by, but has offered to do dinnre with me and max, so I might take her up on that deal
16:54 < fenn> i cant seem to get any better data than that, since nobody really works on it full time
16:54 < kanzure> sounds like something an academic study should have already covered (but I know they haven't)
16:54 < kanzure> "should have" in the sense of an ideal world where people study reasonably important stuff
16:56 < fenn> freitas set the replication time at 1 year
16:56 < fenn> apparently it's somewhat arbitrary, depending on how much mass you want to ship as the seed
16:56  * kanzure was just writing a rant in response to your email
16:56 < kanzure> about mass as the basis for replication time
16:56 < fenn> rant away
16:56 < kanzure> pregnancy trimester length for humans versus whales
16:57 < kanzure> versus amount of time to make a cruise ship versus erect a skyscraper
16:57 < fenn> uh, which is faster?
16:57 < fenn> how about amish barn vs skyscraper
16:58 < kanzure> whales: 14 months. humans: 9 months. skyscraper: 106 days
16:58 < kanzure> 106 days: http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/ups/curriculum2001/construction/phase2narr.html
16:58 < kanzure> wtf? that might be a bad ref on the skyscraper..
16:59 < kanzure> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090127015621AA2BwZ1
16:59 < kanzure> oops, mathematical masturbation
17:00 < fenn> that problem should have started with "If the time it takes..."
17:04 < kanzure> I see the question "how long does it take to build a skyscraper" in "exercises for elementary students" pages,
17:04 < kanzure> but no information on the internet
17:04 < kanzure> that's one hard "search the internet" assignment.
17:04 < fenn> question "How do you make a window? Is it easy or hard?"  answer "A company makes them. They send them to the construction"  ahh modern education..
17:04  * kanzure twitches
17:05 < kanzure> tower of london: 4 years
17:06 < kanzure> eiffel tower: 2 years
17:06 < kanzure> sears tower: 2 years, 9 months
17:07 < fenn> amateurs!
17:09 < fenn> i would like to have a shared transhumanist literature bookshelf
17:09 < fenn> because i can't bring myself to buy this stuff and find out it's just crap
17:11 < kanzure> at the shop?
17:12 < kanzure> or do you mean a "stuff to read" list? because anders has one, max has one, and I think there was even one with a few transhuman FAQs
17:12 < fenn> at the shop
17:12 < kanzure> okay. I'll bring transhuman-related books, scifi, etc., if les is okay with me storing them there
17:12 < fenn> "stuff to read" lists have a habit of getting unreasonably large and unfeasible
17:12 < kanzure> um. another source says the blue whale has a 2 yr pregnancy.
17:13 < kanzure> which is 10 more months than the previous source.
17:20 < kanzure> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.86854
17:20 < kanzure> "The Death Star Costs $15.6 Septillion"
17:20 < kanzure> "First you'll need about 1.71 quadrillion cubic meters of steel, or, 134 quadrillion tons. That's about $12.95 quintillion (I had no ideas these numbers even existed) by modern day prices. Then, you need to get that into your construction site all the way out there in space, which, costs about $95 million per ton, which adds up to $12.79 septillion just to move your metal."
17:20 < kanzure> hahah, why would you not have it in orbit already
17:21 < fenn> you should become a death star construction consultant "i can save you 90% of death star construction costs!@"
17:30 < gene> I want a wearable
17:30 < gene> hey ask the guys who built isenhorn fortress
17:30 < gene> they'll give you a good estimat
17:31 < gene> damn
17:32 < gene> it's too obscure
17:32 < gene> can't find a google image of it
17:33 < gene> http://www.logh.net/minglogh/LGHmap2.jpg
17:34 < gene> giant self-sustaining fortress with liquid metal covering
17:35 < kanzure> "Eric and I are in broad agreement on how this should be done. He is an extremely intelligent guy." - les
17:36 < kanzure> that's an understatement. I keep wondering "who the fuck is this guy" because he seems to continue to impress..
17:43 < kanzure> http://yousuckatwebsites.com/web-trends/the-most-infamous-girl-in-the-history-of-the-internet  <- so they claim it's not the UT tower because the number of windows is wrong
17:43 < kanzure> but if you look out the window here, there's only three windows per row on the tower
17:44 < fenn> so.. think i could join y'all for dinner tonight?
17:44 < kanzure> just got an email, it's not happening.
17:44 < kanzure> gene: do you want to eat tonight?
17:45 < gene> yeah I saw that one
17:45 < gene> of course I want to eat tonight
17:45 < kanzure> do you want to hang out with fenn and I?
17:45 < kanzure> *me
17:45 < gene> Ah sure why not
17:46 < gene> where?
17:46 < kanzure> hrm
17:47 < kanzure> um. 
17:48 < kanzure> there's a restuarant in front of the noodle house (where we ate with dave)
17:48 < kanzure> it happens to also serve chinese food.
17:49 < kanzure> there's also kerbey lane.
17:50 < kanzure> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=food+near+24th+and+Guadalupe,+Austin+TX&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=48.555061,49.306641&ie=UTF8&ll=30.287346,-97.7424&spn=0.006513,0.006019&z=17
17:50 < fenn> oh no not kerbey lane again
17:50 < kanzure> hm?
17:50 < kanzure> (I think the place in front of the Noodle House is Ming's Cafe)
17:52 < kanzure> is it possible to send a link to google streetview?
17:52 < fenn> yes there's a "link" button in the upper right
17:52 < kanzure> nope, that sends you to the map
17:53 < gene> huh what's this kerbey lane place that everyone talks about ALL THE TIME
17:53 < kanzure> am I missing a ref?
17:53 < gene> around here people go there all the time
17:53 < gene> no
17:54 < kanzure> there's also the castilian cafe, but it closes at 6:30~, and is likely crowded by this time
17:54 < kanzure> (and I get free food here, more or less)
17:54 < kanzure> you're practically right across the street from kerbey lane, gene
17:54 < kanzure> which would explain it.
17:54 < gene> yeah
17:54 < gene> I don't want school food
17:55 < fenn> magnolia cafe has really awesome food btw
17:55 < fenn> but that's the only two restaurants i know in town
17:55 < fenn> it's kinda loud unfortunately
17:55 < kanzure> one's off of South Congress, and the other's off of Lake Austin.
17:56 < kanzure> gee..
17:56 < gene> we could choose some random barbecue
17:57 < kanzure> how about Madam Mam's?
17:57 < gene> or I could use MOZILLA'S FOODFINDER!
17:57 < kanzure> guess I should be looking for a place that doesn't only serve things fenn won't eat.
17:57 < kanzure> "food near 24th and guadalupe, austin tx" is about the right query.
17:58 < fenn> you'd think they could overlay the map markers on street view
17:58 < gene> hmmm... since your in town fenn, you might actually get an algae steak after all
17:59 < fenn> whee
18:00 < gene> what else are we to do with a tank full of algae?
18:00 < gene> veggie heaven?
18:00 < kanzure> I'd like to try ming's.
18:00 < gene> ok
18:00 < gene> let's do this
18:02 < fenn> huh kerbey lane is a franchise
18:02 < kanzure> it's right after the seven eleven gas station, with some amount of parking right next door at kerbey lane.
18:02 < gene> hey fenn, want to see some reprap parts?
18:03 < fenn> you betcha
18:03 < fenn> do you have the electronics?
18:03 < gene> no
18:03 < fenn> steppers etc
18:03 < gene> no
18:03 < fenn> aw. that' the hard part
18:03 < gene> but somebody else from actlab might
18:03 < gene> who I emailed and didn't email me back
18:04 < fenn> well, half a reprap is no good
18:04 < fenn> anyway i'd like to see one just to get a feel for it
18:04 < gene> I got some of the reprapable parts
18:05 < gene> and I would have more right now, if the damn printer got fixed
18:06 < fenn> "if i only had a lathe"
18:07 < fenn> ming's is under the big tree?
18:07 < gene> what time?
18:07 < kanzure> yes
18:08 < kanzure> whenever fenn gets here I guess
18:08 < fenn> ok I'm off!
18:08 < gene> call me
18:09 < kanzure> ok
18:11 < fenn> heh 'one block after the church of scientology'
18:11 < fenn> you can't miss it! :\
18:12 < gene> yeah well within range of bombardment...
18:12 < gene> IRC while driving?
18:12 < kanzure> that block *is* my block :(
18:12 < gene> but how?
18:12 < kanzure> iphone?
18:13 < gene> wifi or fancy 3g shit
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21:47 < kanzure> Hey cis-action.
21:48 < cis-action> hey kanzure 
21:54 < kanzure> You're a Harvard student?
22:19 < cis-action> noooo
22:20 < cis-action> ha ha misinformation
22:21 < gene> how'd ya do that?
22:21 < gene> are you sitting in an unmarked van on the campus?
22:22 < cis-action> berkman center
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22:37 < kanzure> where should I go to get a listing of all genes in a given organism, cross-referenced to all other possible names of each gene?
22:43 < gene> NCBI
22:47 < kanzure> a list.
22:47 < kanzure> is there something specific from NCBI, or am I going to have to scrape some nasty page
22:50 < kanzure> hm, the kegg genes.tar.gz file actually has a good number of organisms, nevermind
22:50 < kanzure> will just have to parse the file. somehow.
22:51 < kanzure> (the .tar.gz was 14 GB.)
23:08 < gene> look up biology data formats
23:09 < kanzure> why
23:09 < gene> why not?
23:09 < kanzure> well, because I've done that before?
23:30 < kanzure> http://roboeco.com/evolutis
23:30 < kanzure> wtf
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23:41 < kanzure> http://teaminfinity.com/writings/UniversalDNA.txt
23:47 < kanzure> http://web.archive.org/web/19961219032048/http://teaminfinity.com/
23:47 < kanzure> wtf is this shit?
23:48 < kanzure> http://ewebber.freeshell.org/teaminfinity/chat.html
23:55 < gene> I'm watching the fountain
23:55 < gene> my WTFometer is reading at least 100 per second
23:58 < gene> roboeco reads at 9230, I've never seen anything like this!
23:59 < kanzure> why all of the weird colors