--- Day changed Wed Mar 18 2009
00:00 < willPow3r> interesting katsmeow-afk
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00:15 < fenn> rock opera just isn't my thing i guess
00:20 < kanzure> katsmeow-afk: yeah, I have a partial copy of that :)
00:20 < kanzure> fenn: how about those monitors?
00:20 < gene> show me teh monoitors
00:20 < gene> i missed it
00:20 < fenn> i wouldnt mind some monitors
00:20 < kanzure> when can you pick up two of them?
00:21 < fenn> tomorrow, probably afternoon
00:21 < fenn> what's the story on them?
00:21 < kanzure> the deal is I get flat screens if I get rid of these
00:21 < gene> hey I might have acouple of monitors
00:21 < fenn> oh, ginormous CRT's?
00:21 < gene> yes
00:21 < kanzure> monsters
00:22 < fenn> uhm..
00:22 < kanzure> heh
00:22 < gene> they scare me too
00:22 < fenn> damn you
00:23 < gene> kanzure have you seen the most glorious thing in the world?
00:23 < kanzure> a vagina?
00:23 < fenn> you got a laptop?
00:23 < kanzure> yes
00:23 < kanzure> (another one? wtf.)
00:23 < gene> crisis on high at that big multiscreen monster they have?
00:23 < kanzure> crisis is a game?
00:23 < fenn> crysis
00:24 < kanzure> oh, that one
00:24 < kanzure> no
00:24 < gene> I haven't seen it, but I know it happens
00:24 < gene> take at look at the screens some time
00:24 < gene> looks cool
00:25  * kanzure figures out how to mount the new ipod shuffle on his glasses and back ear.
00:25 < gene> WOW
00:26 < gene> does it have a screen?
00:26 < kanzure> no
00:26 < kanzure> the controls are attached to the headphone
00:26 < gene> IT'S A WEARABLE COMPUTER
00:26 < kanzure> (so it's probably some fucked up standard)
00:26 < gene> with an audio interface
00:26 < kanzure> so?
00:27 < kanzure> you have a maximum of like, four functions
00:27 < fenn> the great thing about non-standards is if you're apple you can shove them down everyone's throat
00:27 < kanzure> how does that work, anyway?
00:28  * kanzure sets up his LCD
00:28 < fenn> 1) conflate your corporation with a movement against old grey men in corporations, drudgery, and fascism
00:29 < fenn> 2) wait 20 years
00:29 < fenn> 3) PROFIT!
00:29 < fenn> see how simple it is?
00:29 < kanzure> no :(
00:29 < gene> where'd you get the new gear kanzure?
00:29  * kanzure breaks a hip
00:29 < kanzure> gene: mom
00:30 < kanzure> as a bribe so that I go silently into the home
00:30 < gene> dang
00:30 < fenn> you bribe easy
00:30 < gene> ok now that just freaky
00:30 < kanzure> I'm considering buying a plane ticket anyway though
00:30 < kanzure> I mean, thanks for the gear and such :) but really..
00:31 < gene> my alarm clock was unplugged
00:31 < gene> now it's plugged in and flashing that there was a power outage
00:33 < gene> I'll just assume it was plugged in
00:33 < kanzure> oh shit, I have desk space.
00:33 < gene> FILL IT UP WITH CRAP
00:33 < gene> or anime figurines
00:33 < gene> or tools
00:34 < kanzure> it was previously filled with monitor monster.
00:34 < gene> oh
00:35 < gene> I'd go with anime figurines in that case
00:36 < kanzure> I still think it was awesome how we had 4chan running on a 30' screen down in the basement
00:36 < bkero> :)
00:36 < bkero> I have 4chan on a 30 inch monitor right now
00:36 < kanzure> 30 foot
00:36 < bkero> In fact, I have it stretched across 2 22"s, and a 30"
00:36 < bkero> Oh yea
00:36 < kanzure> learn yer english system, foo
00:36 < bkero> We do that every day, projector in the living room :)
00:36 < gene> bkero what board?
00:36 < bkero> gene: /w
00:36 < kanzure> "all of them"
00:36 < bkero> also 4scrape
00:37 < gene> good, never put /b/ on big screen
00:37 < kanzure> pfft, wimp
00:37 < gene> hmmm... looks like they're getting raided
00:38 < bkero> lol
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00:38 < bkero> Raiding /b is like pissing into an ocean of piss.
00:39 < gene> yeah
00:40 < fenn> raided?
00:40 < gene> attacked, you know what I mean
00:40 < gene> it's over
00:40 < fenn> i'm picturing swat teams throwing hand grenades into the server rooms..
00:41 < gene> not like that
00:42 < fenn> this CNC gig is taking way longer than I expected
00:43 < fenn> looks like hofstadter was right
00:43 < gene> btw have you heard of the cupcake CNC
00:43 < fenn> those guys officially suck
00:43 < gene> the Bre pettis and  Zach Hoeken deal?
00:43 < gene> yeah
00:44 < gene> $750, give me a brake
00:44 < fenn> and meanwhile rrrf is totally useless for months
00:45 < gene> oh no, not again
00:45 < fenn> i'm going to start selling darwins, since apparently nobody else will
00:45 < gene> oh yeah, one of the core team is making a reprap with $2 steppers
00:45 < kanzure> fenn: how much do they suck?
00:45 < kanzure> the cnc gig
00:45 < kanzure> *the cnc gig people
00:46 < fenn> that's not what i meant
00:46 < fenn> the makerbot people, zach and bre pettis
00:46 < kanzure> cupcake CNC people suck?
00:46 < kanzure> oh, sure
00:46 < kanzure> but we already knew that
00:46 < kanzure> although zach claims to be willing to listen
00:47 < gene> fenn will you sell replicated repraps?
00:48 < gene> not manufactured repraps?
00:48 < fenn> errr... that depends
00:48 < kanzure> it doesn't replicate
00:48 < kanzure> wtf are you smoking?
00:50 < gene> replicate plastic parts
00:50 < kanzure> what is 'replicate'
00:50 < gene> it doesn't replicate yet
00:50 < kanzure> ..
00:50 < kanzure> it's not like you can make a down payment on replication
00:51 < kanzure> "but it will eventually! but before it does, will you make it replicate to do what you want to do in the near term?"
00:51 < kanzure> seriously though- how does that even make sense?
00:51 < kanzure> maybe I'm just stupid
00:51 < kanzure> after all, I apparently am unable to live
00:51 < kanzure> (or something)
00:51 < gene> ok it doesn't
00:52 < gene> now help me design a gear profile if you're feeling helpful
00:52 < kanzure> what do you mean by profile?
00:52 < gene> the shape of the gear tooth
00:53 < kanzure> shouldn't you pick that out of a catalog?
00:53 < gene> NO
00:53 < kanzure> ?
00:53 < gene> because reprap can print things that aren't in a catalog
00:54 < gene> and so can a stratasys
00:54 < kanzure> that's the only reason?
00:54 < kanzure> that's kind of lame.
00:54 < kanzure> I mean, if you had a use for a weird gear tooth shape, I guess I could see that
00:54 < gene> yeah and gears in a catalog might not be optimal
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00:54 < kanzure> be optimal for what ?
00:54 < kanzure> here's what you can do
00:54 < gene> for a pneumatic stepping motor
00:54 < kanzure> you give me the xyz coords for the input
00:54 < kanzure> and then the xyz coords for the output
00:54 < kanzure> within a bounding box
00:55 < kanzure> and then tell me the input torque and required output torque
00:55 < kanzure> then I'll whip you up something that solves it with an optimal design
00:55 < gene> no input torque
00:55 < kanzure> what input do you have?
00:55 < gene> it's a motor
00:55 < gene> air
00:55 < gene> at about 50 psi max
00:55 < fenn> it's not a normal gearbox, it's hypocycloidal
00:55 < kanzure> at some point that has to be converted into mechanical energy..
00:56 < kanzure> I mean, psi is mechanical, but
00:56 < kanzure> not in the way that matters to a gear
00:56 < gene> required output torque 200 oz inched
00:56 < gene> inches
00:56 < gene> need at least 200 steps
00:56 < kanzure> wtf
00:56 < kanzure> why?
00:56 < kanzure> wait, you mean steps for the stepper motor
00:57 < gene> why? cuz that gives like 0.05 mm resolution
00:57 < kanzure> I was thinking of a different context for 'steps'
00:57 < gene> oh
00:58 < gene> right now I'm reading up on gear profiles and cycloidal reducers
00:58 < gene> cycloidal reducers are cool
00:59  * kanzure uses the jedi mind trick
00:59 < kanzure> *you want to use this code*
00:59 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/gears/gears.html
00:59 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/gears/
00:59 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/gears/src/
00:59 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/gears/src/GearEvaluator.cs
01:00 < kanzure> fenn: you're going to feel stupid if you read that .cs file (in the sense that it's so stupid a monkey could have done it), so don't.
01:00 < gene> I don't trust other peoples code it might break my computer
01:01 < fenn> they should teach proper gear anatomy in computer science classes so i dont have to look at all these awful gear pictures
01:02 < kanzure> hah, well, part of my work now is to implement a better gear visualization / CAD routine via pythonocc
01:02 < fenn> i'm always amazed when i see rendered gears that actually have an involute profile
01:02 < kanzure> what?
01:02 < gene> yes they should fenn
01:02 < kanzure> not just meshed?
01:03 < fenn> i mean not just flat 
01:03 < gene> those are cogs fenn
01:03 < kanzure> but aren't some teeth rectangular for planar gears?
01:03 < kanzure> hrm, wait
01:03 < fenn> like http://www.rhino3d.com/resources/display.asp?language=&listing=663
01:03 < kanzure> they aren't supposed to be prismatic
01:03 < kanzure> I was actually being scolded by one of the mechanical engineers in the department
01:03 < fenn> not like glxgears or that "gears from junkmail" crap that's been going around the web
01:03 < kanzure> something about a more .. trapezoidal shape to the tooth?
01:04 < gene> scolded?
01:04 < kanzure> ah, yeah
01:04 < gene> really
01:04 < gene> heh
01:04 < kanzure> scolded- not really
01:04 < fenn> oh you mean not just an extrusion?
01:04 < kanzure> but "we had a chat"
01:04 < fenn> it doesn't really matter, just a finishing step
01:04 < fenn> makes the corners stronger
01:05 < kanzure> fenn: steve contacted me earlier today about an 'ai fellow' that is doing some funky optimization routine on FEA and PDEs to do 20,000~ different models (under finite analysis) in under a minute
01:05 < kanzure> some sort of black magic in mathematics over part catalogs :)
01:07 < fenn> 20k different topologies?
01:08  * kanzure nods
01:10 < gene> ugh
01:10 < gene> I'm think I'm going to print this paper of and read
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01:11 < gene> glad the people who wrote it were CONCISE
01:13 < kanzure> who the hell makes a screen saver out of your web cam
01:13 < kanzure> seeing myself really startled me. "who's staring at me"
01:14 < gene> whoa
01:14 < gene> how'd it get access to your webcam?
01:15 < gene> and btw, just out of curiousity, what's that blinky cylinder icon thing anyway?
01:15 < kanzure> blinky cylinder icon thing?
01:16 < gene> yeah
01:16 < gene> what does it mean?
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01:18 < gene> or just figure out how to make a gear with a pressure angle of 60 degrees
01:18 < kanzure> I don't know what you are talking about
01:19 < gene> the light that pseudorandomely flashes on your computer
01:20 < kanzure> hard disk access
01:20 < gene> oh
01:20 < fenn> gene look at fablib, there is a gear script where you can modify the pressure angle
01:20 < kanzure> it's the NSA sending you secret messages
01:20 < kanzure> it's in moris code, quick! write it down!
01:20 < gene> SHIT
01:21 < fenn> http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/cs482/fablab/projects/gears/gears.py
01:21 < gene> well you know you can write code to make it output morse code
01:21 < fenn> you will need http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/cs482/fablab/fablib/fablib.tar.gz
01:22 < fenn> off to bed
01:22 < kanzure> hm, did not know there was a gears.py in fablib
01:22 < kanzure> g'night
01:22 < gene> well goodnight
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02:46 < ybit> kanzure, there's a #fablab irc channel?
02:46 < ybit> i remember seeing it on your homepage a couple weeks ago
02:47 < ybit> i even recall seeing it there last summer :) ...but i've yet to find such a channel
02:47 < ybit> it was actually last Winter or Spring when I became of heybryan.org
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10:28 < faceface> hi
10:29 < faceface> someone on this chan told me about a 'screen for X'?
10:29 < faceface> I just wonder if anyoen remembers that
10:29 < faceface>  screen is a 'terminal server', but there is one for X apparently too...
10:35 < UtopiahGHML> http://www.realvnc.com/ ? ssh tunneling ? 
11:12 < faceface> vnc dosn't look like what I remember, but I'll pass it onto my friend
11:12 < faceface> UtopiahGHML: do you want to start a company called 'facial genomics'?
11:13 < faceface> (genotyping + facial biomatrics) / association = facial genomics
11:13 < faceface> s/biomatrics/biometrics/
11:13 < kanzure> "sir, your face officially sucks"
11:14 < faceface> ;-)
11:14 < faceface> we go through facebook and email everyone who we predict will get diabetes
11:16 < faceface> sincerely, facial genomics
11:17 < kanzure> oh crap, I think I swallowed my ipod
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11:29 < faceface> what were you playing?
11:44 < UtopiahGHML> faceface: I admit it's a cuter term than the heavily connoted Physiognomy, much better than Physiognomy corp.
11:45 < faceface> I never heard that term before
11:45 < faceface> have you guys seen this... http://twitter.com/biorbot
11:45 < faceface> its a twitterbot for #bioinformatics
11:47 < faceface> if you want the twitterbot to join this channel, ask torbjorn on #bioinformatics
11:51 < UtopiahGHML> guess it would be more useful if it could translate nickname to the correct @nickname (if the user wants to)
11:51 < faceface> UtopiahGHML: cool idea
11:51 < UtopiahGHML> but... I dont really see the point anyway except hammering even more the twitter API :-#
11:51 < faceface> torbjorn just turned it off, but it could be set up so that only certain users get twitted
11:52 < faceface> yeah... the point is limited... but its a nice data rich archive of the chan
11:52 < faceface> i.e. you can feed it places
11:52 < UtopiahGHML> is it an irssi script? seems to be using perl
12:00 < faceface> UtopiahGHML: I'd suggest you join #bioinformatics and talk to torbjorn, because I'm not sure how it works
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12:00 < faceface> UtopiahGHML: he seemed interested in your idea to use alternative identifiers in twitter based on registering IRC nicks
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12:21 < kanzure>  Dynamic patterning programmed by DNA tiles captured on a DNA origami substrate http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090215151807.htm
12:21 < kanzure> pdf: http://tinyurl.com/dgk9bl
12:23 < faceface> nice
12:39 < fenn> faceface: http://partiwm.org/wiki/xpra  but i've never tried it, buyer beware
12:41 < kanzure> http://www.ansys.com/products/default.asp
12:41 < kanzure> ANSYS DesignXplorer software adds advanced parametric control to permit study of the simulation response to proposed modifications. The module enables engineers to perform Design of Experiments (DOE) analyses of any ANSYS Workbench simulation, including those with CAD parameters.
12:42 < kanzure> http://www.ansys.com/products/designxplorer.asp
12:42 < kanzure> ANSYS® Parametric Design LanguageTM (APDL)
12:42 < kanzure> wtf?
12:42 < kanzure> http://www.mece.ualberta.ca/tutorials/ansys/AT/APDL/APDL.html  <-- examples of APDL
12:43 < kanzure> http://www.apdl.de/
12:45 < kanzure> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&hs=7iK&num=100&q=filetype%3Aans+ansys&btnG=Search
12:45 < fenn> gimme a fucking break, just use a real programming language
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12:57 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_set_method ". The advantage of the level set method is that one can perform numerical computations involving curves and surfaces on a fixed Cartesian grid without having to parameterize these objects (this is called the Eulerian approach).[1]"
13:01 < faceface> fenn: that is what I was thinking of, thanks
13:20 < kanzure> http://www.webdoe.cc/publications/kirstine.php
13:20 < kanzure> there we go
13:20 < kanzure> bonus points for figuring out wtf they are talking about
13:20 < fenn> people used to be so smart
13:20 < fenn> now the best we can do is twitter and make magazine
13:22 < kanzure> getting depressed?
13:23 < fenn> reading about makerbot
13:24 < fenn> and dealing with someone trying to edit source code in open office
13:24 < kanzure> *twitch*
13:24 < fenn> and procrastinating a business call (i may have destroyed the deskCNC controller by plugging in a cable backwards (who makes cables that you can plug in backwards anyway??))
13:26 < fenn> there are IDC connectors on the board but they dont have the tab/notch
13:33 < kanzure> http://www.webdoe.cc/info/doe.php
13:33 < kanzure> "In an experiment, we deliberately change one or more process variables (or factors) in order to observe the effect the changes have on one or more response variables. The (statistical) design of experiments (DOE) is an efficient procedure for planning experiments so that the data obtained can be analyzed to yield valid and objective conclusions."
13:33 < kanzure> "DOE begins with determining the objectives of an experiment and selecting the process factors for the study. An Experimental Design is the laying out of a detailed experimental plan in advance of doing the experiment. Well chosen experimental designs maximize the amount of "information" that can be obtained for a given amount of experimental effort."
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13:52 < kanzure> hm, I think they're using krylov accelerators
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14:12 < gene> kanzure you there?
14:15 < kanzure> yes
14:19 < bkero> Slashdot article regarding Linux spokesman: http://pastebin.osuosl.org/24953
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15:19 < kanzure> http://www.design.caltech.edu/NSF_MEMS_Workshop/crary.html
15:19 < kanzure> last two paragraphs
15:22 < fenn> "A unified theory of transduction"
15:22 < fenn> ah wouldnt it be nice
15:23 < fenn> they forgot nuclear and gravitational :P
15:23 < fenn> not sure where neutrinic fits into that
15:25 < kanzure> none of the names he cites show up when queried individually with "theory of transduction"
15:26 < kanzure> but if you just do transduction+$name, you get lots of "signal transduction" stuff re: cells, which isn't quite the same topic
15:28 < kanzure> http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009?limit_0=100
15:28 < kanzure> wtf is the singularity institute doing on that list?
15:28 < kanzure> they're not supposed to do shit :/
15:28 < kanzure> heh, BRLCAD is on the list though
15:29 < kanzure> http://socghop.appspot.com/org/show/google/gsoc2009/brlcad
15:29 < kanzure> http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009/Project_Ideas#Constraints_and_Parametrics
15:29 < fenn> it's opencog, which is ben goertzel's thing
15:30 < fenn> dunno why it's under SIAI
15:31 < kanzure> http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009/Project_Ideas#Web-based_solid_geometry_model_repository
15:34 < kanzure> ben is SIAI's "director of research"
15:34 < kanzure> yawn
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15:35 < kanzure> any ideas on searching for the research on a "theory of transduction" that Crary references?
15:38 < fenn> i dont think there is any
15:38 < fenn> mail crary@umich.edu
15:38 < kanzure> I don't think he's at umich.edu anymore, he was talking with Steve in Silicon Valley, which is where his business address is, as well as his wife (at the same address), soo
15:38  * kanzure is in uber stalk mode
15:40 < kanzure> his wife: http://twitter.com/mariiannebeth
15:40 < fenn> selden@crary.cc ?
15:41 < kanzure> oh snap.
15:41 < kanzure> I don't know if asking him is a good idea since I wasn't supposed to see that email
15:41 < fenn> hm, have dave ask him
15:41 < kanzure> :) I asked dave actually about fastfea, will see what he says
15:43 < kanzure> http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:jWi0Og2UmM4J:www.mgnet.org/mgnet/outgoing/send_digests+selden%40crary.cc&cd=20&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera
15:43 < kanzure> wtf?
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16:18 < fenn> hole crap electricity is 1.1 cents per kWh at night
16:18 < fenn> http://www.oru.com/programsandservices/incentivesandrebates/timeofuse.html
16:19 < gene> dang
16:19 < gene> you should move out to a west texas windfarm
16:19 < gene> where electricity is free at certain times
16:53 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/membraneless_filtration/2009-03-18_spiral.jpg
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16:55 < fenn> foam core?
16:55 < fenn> oh its acrylic with the paper stuck to it
16:55 < kanzure> yes
17:04 < kanzure> fenn: heeks is apparently in #cam from time to time
17:05 < fenn> yeah i talk to him all the time
17:05 < kanzure> blah
17:56 < ybit> kanzure, so i guess you won't be working with pythonocc for gsoc... are you going to try for brl-cad?
17:56 < kanzure> yes
17:56 < kanzure> I've been talking with them for a few minutes in there about their parametrics library re: graphsynth for hypergraphs and constraint satisfaction problems
17:58 < ybit> there isn't one ruby project listed o.O
17:59 < kanzure> rails is..
17:59 < ybit> yeah, i just noticed there's more than one page 
17:59 < ybit> wow
18:17 < kanzure> http://people.ischool.berkeley.edu/~rachna/courses/infoviz/gtv/
18:17 < kanzure> gnutellavision - real time visualization of a p2p network
18:18 < kanzure> http://minion.sourceforge.net/
18:19 < fenn> "general purpose constraint solver" meaning it will do 3d geometry?
18:21 < fenn> doesn't look like it
18:23 < kanzure> http://www.gecode.org/
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18:42 < xp_prg> finite domain linear constraints kick ass
18:42 < xp_prg> I finally switched to prolog however
18:42 < xp_prg> just made more sense for me
18:54 < ybit>  i thought http://code.google.com/p/nativeclient/ was neat
18:55 < ybit> and i've yet to check out http://gephi.org/ 
18:56 < ybit> won't be applying for them, but neat
19:40 < kanzure> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:367
19:40 < kanzure> replacement knob for a dishwasher heh'
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19:47 < gene> looks broken to me
20:10 < kanzure> Thermodynamic Analysis of Resources Used in Manufacturing Processes http://is.gd/nWSn
20:19 < xp_prg> I am trying to understand this code:  [[_prefix, _clauses]] = result where result = ['w', 'x', 'y', 'z']
20:19 < xp_prg> it gives the error:  too many values to unpack
20:19 < xp_prg> but how would [[_prefix, _clauses]] work, what is it doing there?
20:21 < xp_prg> oops wrong channel
20:38 < kanzure> it means you have too many values in your array
20:38 < kanzure> it's expecting it to be [[_prefix, _clauses]] = ['1', '2']
20:54 < fenn> it's not actually in fablib
20:54 < fenn> erf nevermind, scrollback error
21:03 < gene> kanzure could you do something for me?
21:03 < gene> SSH into a lab puter and archive this paper http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V46-4H57JG1-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=91bbbdd9d2e752772ffd64989f9df46c
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21:07 < kanzure> fenn: doesn't seem to be much of an error since you didn't say that earlier.
21:08 < kanzure> gene: ok, done
21:08 < gene> sweet link
21:08 < gene> ?
21:09 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/On%20the%20lobe%20profile%20design%20in%20a%20cycloid%20reducer%20using%20instant%20velocity%20center.pdf
21:09 < kanzure> I was just playing around with some instant velocity center stuff a few weeks ago re: linkages.
21:10 < gene> linkages are fun
21:10 < gene> holy shit, your doing linkages and you aren't taking dynamics?
21:11 < kanzure> yeah, well, fuck them.
21:11 < kanzure> I'm paying out the ass for education, and they put me in basic physics?
21:12 < gene> you got any secret linkage velocity computation algorithms?
21:12 < kanzure> well it's actually kind of simple
21:12 < kanzure> one moment, let me dig up my notes
21:12 < gene> let's just say on the last hw the book got two different answers for the same problem using different algorithms
21:13 < kanzure> method of finding a velocity on the point of an object by the method of instant centers
21:13 < kanzure> V_A and V_B are 2 points in a purely rotating rigid body
21:14 < kanzure> such that V_A dot n_A = 0 and V_B dot n_B = 0
21:14 < kanzure> find the pt of intersect of n_B and n_A
21:14 < kanzure> V_Q = V^P + w^B cross r^(PQ)
21:14 < kanzure> that pt of intersection is the instant center
21:15 < kanzure> w^B is the angular velocity of point B on some plane N (P&Q are points on a body under pure rotation)
21:15 < kanzure> don't know if that's useful. 
21:16 < kanzure> but basically, to compute the velocity of some attached linkage, you just set the origin to be a point on the other rigid body (an offset)
21:16 < kanzure> (that point being, namely, the connection)
21:16  * kanzure goes down to grab a bite for dinner
21:18 < gene> yeah that's what we do
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21:57 < gene> I don't believe it
21:57 < gene> they make heat exchangers from plastic
22:09 < katsmeow-afk> and solar collectors too, heh
22:13 < fenn> PEX is routinely used for radiant flooring, so why not solar collectors
22:15 < fenn> a key parameter in heat exchangers is the wall thickness.. really thin aluminum will crinkle where thin plastic would just flex
22:15 < katsmeow-afk> true, PEX is approved for drinking water too
22:16 < katsmeow-afk> still,, no flow on a sunny day , painted black, it could get too hot and stretch permanently, burst, etc
22:17 < katsmeow-afk> i know a business making one in white pvc, 1) it's gloss reflective white , 2) it's not rated for hot water 3) they installed it as tight as possible to single non-flow controlled headers, so no telling which way the water is going
22:24 < kanzure> I've lost my train of thought, what am I doing?
22:25 < katsmeow-afk> dinner
22:27 < kanzure> that would be a good idea eventually, but then what?
22:29 < gene> whatever it is it's what they use in pool heaters
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23:24 < fenn> "there comes a time about this time every night when I'm just too goddamned hyper to bother with all that stuff and I want to just DO SOMETHING instead of ask someone else to start a process to investigate the possibility of someday possibly maybe doing something."
23:25 < fenn> wow so even CEO's have this problem eh
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