--- Day changed Wed Mar 25 2009
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08:43 < kanzure> touring the home today.
09:33 -!- any63104870 is now known as katsmeow
09:38 < kanzure>  has anyone ever seen injection molding of a milling machine?
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10:08 < katsmeow> kanzure, is injection molding the frame ofa milling machine any different than injection molding any large mass?
10:15 < kanzure-> well, I'm talking about the whole thing I guess
10:16 < kanzure-> more broadly my question should be of the nature of "insert here a request for your knowledge of weird ways to go about manufacturing other manufacturing unit processes"
10:20 < katsmeow> i don't believe the accuracy of the injection molded device will make for an accurate milling machine,, unless you have an electronics compensation package to bolt onto it
10:22 < kanzure-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PET_film_(biaxially_oriented)  <- had to track down what 'scotch tape' adhesive really is (besides cellophane)
10:35 < kanzure-> http://www.tattooartists.org/Gal3975_UV_Blacklight_Ink.asp
10:36  * kanzure- considers mixing sharpie with "UV blacklight tattoo" ink
10:37 < kanzure-> blacklightink.com
10:39 < katsmeow> too kool
10:41 < kanzure-> ah it's called BMX 1000
10:41 < kanzure-> or "spectral marking pigment"
10:42 < kanzure-> oh wait, aren't UV sharpies advertized on TV all the time?
10:42 < kanzure-> http://www.amazon.com/Sharpie-Invisible-Marking-Ink-Pen/dp/B000UH0MZG "1 new from $5.95"
10:46 < katsmeow> and sharpies tend to stay put when sweating
10:51 < kanzure-> well, what I'm trying to do now is find a UV toner cartridge for a laser printer
10:52 < kanzure-> there's UV inks and diy formulas for such for inkjet printers, which might be ok I guess
10:52 < kanzure-> anyway, the idea is to print out a pattern, expose a polymer to UV light but covered with the UV-inked-mask from a printer
10:59 < katsmeow> so print the layers of a 3D object?
11:00 < kanzure-> huh?
11:03 < katsmeow> you run the printhead or laser lite over a pool of polymer, harden a thin pattern, drop the platform in the polymer pool .010 inch, print anothe layer, repeat
11:08 < kanzure-> oh, I wasn't considering layered printing
11:08 < kanzure-> but that's doable methinks.
11:08 < kanzure-> http://synth-diy.blogspot.com/2008/10/making-of-uv-oven.html
11:08 < kanzure-> hehe
11:08 < katsmeow> been done, even
11:09 < katsmeow> gee, no one heard of using flourescent lites?
11:09 < kanzure-> I need a UV "glow in the dark" styrene acrylate copolymer, or polyester resin (not a UV-cure polyester resin), or styrene butadiene
11:09 < kanzure-> yeah really. "I know! LEDs! yeah!"
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11:10 < kanzure-> hm, laser printers have a resolution of 8 to 16 micrometers (600 dots per inch)
11:10 < kanzure-> don't know how useful that is here..
11:11  * katsmeow mentions tpfq line etching
11:13 < kanzure-> ?
11:13 < katsmeow> oh, for printing etch masks
11:14 < katsmeow> laser the traces onto a pcb, the etchant removes where you didn't laser
11:16 < kanzure-> but the laser seems to just do dots
11:16 < kanzure-> and it's not useful to only have dots in making small patterned surfaces
11:17 < katsmeow> umm, so don't turn the laser on/off for dots, keep it on
11:17 < katsmeow> or step smaller
11:17 < katsmeow> overlap the dots more
11:27 < kanzure-> what's the minimum step size?
11:28 < kanzure-> of a typical laser printer I guess
11:28 < katsmeow> depends on the printer, i spose
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12:01 < kanzure-> so the literature is saying that in general the max resolution is 200 micrometer width channels using laser printers
12:01 < kanzure-> this is unfortunate, it would have been awesome to be able to print a 20 micrometer-max-resolution mask of UV-absorbent ink for use with the UV oven or something
12:01 < kanzure-> the maskless UV lithography paper (pinhole UV led thingy apparatus w/ 50x objective lense) uses a syringe pump, a costly item for actuation of the substrate
12:02 < kanzure-> piezos and tweets are used sometimes in amateur STM setups, but I'm not entirely sure how usable they are for actuation of this sort
12:02 < kanzure-> a way to do this without requiring actuation would be great, but the printer resolution is just too big. :(
12:04 < kanzure-> http://www.geocities.com/spm_stm/Mechanical_Approach.html
12:05 < kanzure-> http://www.geocities.com/spm_stm/disk_scanner.html
12:08 < kanzure-> http://www.geocities.com/spm_stm/Disk_Scanner_Exp.html
12:08 < kanzure-> hm, I don't understand how this could provide any sort of motion overall. I mean, I guess it could push something a bit if you left it underneath a piece of paper
12:08 < kanzure-> but I don't know if that makes any sense :)
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12:26 < kanzure> http://meterproject.googlepages.com/laserservo.py
12:26 < kanzure> http://meterproject.googlepages.com/laserproject
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14:06 < fenn> wow this is awesome http://www.myvu.com/DormRoom.aspx
14:08 < bkero> heh
14:08 < bkero> fenn: find me a pair with dvi
14:14 < fenn> why bother when the best resolution you can get is 800x600
14:14 < fenn> 640x480 for <$1000
14:20 < bkero> ?
14:20 < bkero> Yea, the budget for this entire thing is $450
14:24 < fenn> the cheapest HMD with 800x600 resolution is like $1300 used on ebay
14:24 < fenn> myvu is a good choice
14:24 < fenn> there is so much crap out there
14:25  * fenn playing around with xzoom for full screen 320x240 resolution
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15:57 < fenn> huh. myvu is based on microoptical
17:04 < fenn> We realize this in LiFePO4 (ref. 6), a material with high lithium bulk mobility7, 8, by creating a fast ion-conducting surface phase through controlled off-stoichiometry. A rate capability equivalent to full battery discharge in 10–20 s can be achieved.
17:04 < fenn> from http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v458/n7235/abs/nature07853.html
17:10 < bkero> fenn: I'm not concerned about the resolutoin as much as the input
17:10 < bkero> I need digital input frmo the beagle
17:10 < bkero> Right now I'm doing svideo->composite from the beagle
17:10 < bkero> Which looks like a HUGE pile of shit
17:11 < fenn> how so?
17:12 < fenn> also i'd be interested in what happens if you don't connect the chroma signal, just luminance->RCA connector
17:54 < bkero> composite signals don't do good at text
17:54 < bkero> Or high resolutions
17:54 < bkero> 640x480 being 'high'
17:58 < fenn> do you think it'd be possible to hack the myvu circuitry?
17:58 < fenn> (not that i have any idea what a HDMI signal looks like)
18:00 < fenn> might be worth trying coax cable
18:14 < bkero> I was thinking about doing it
18:14 < bkero> Since the LCDs use LVDS
18:15 < bkero> So I'd need HDMI->LVDS, which is possible, but the converter boxes are expensive, and big.
18:16 < fenn> what's inside the glasses? some epoxy blob asic?
18:17 < bkero> Pretty much
18:17 < bkero> Most of the electronics are in a small box attached with a wire
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19:23 < kanzure> fenn: got it
19:24 < kanzure> how about this? use the STM-piezo thingy and attach a mirror to it
19:24 < kanzure> use it to pattern the UV led
19:34 < kanzure> *to pattern with the UV led
20:26 < fenn> ahahaa nice borg gear http://teleglasses.net/teleglass_t3-f_video1.html
20:28 < fenn> better video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMLmY3XJXEA&NR=1
20:29 < bkero> wtf
20:29 < fenn> resolution sucks though - 320x240
20:29 < bkero> hugelame
20:30 < fenn> not so sure
20:30 < fenn> definitely cooler than 99% of the video glasses out there
20:35 < bkero> The 320x240 automatically discuonts them though
20:35 < bkero> *discounts
20:37 < fenn> yeah, that's not good for anything
20:38 < fenn> huh
20:38 < fenn> Entertainment is not the main purpose of this innovation. They are targetting three fields of industry, beauty and medical care and the portable type digital microscope, the microscope and the video magnifier industry
20:40 < fenn> scalar is a microscope manufacturer, primarily
20:56 < bkero> beauty?
21:00 < fenn> they have handheld video microscopes for looking at hair follicles or skin spots or something
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21:10 < kanzure> fenn: you might want to review the channel logs for previous links to myvu
21:10 < kanzure> last time, I asked gene to document his random googlings and what he found on the wiki, but he didn't
21:10 < kanzure> and there were a few times before where we found some fairly good links and such..
21:13 < bkero> I sparked that search a few times :)
21:13 < bkero> (with the same project fenn is referring to)2~
21:18 < kanzure> so I went to the home today
21:20 < fenn> for the price it's hard to find anything cheaper than myvu crystal in 640x480
21:22 < kanzure> hm, the piezo tweet goes 0.16 microns/Volt, max range of motion of 2.9 microns
21:23 < kanzure> wonder if that's enough for moving a mirror to write with the LEDs
21:23 < kanzure> I guess as long as 2.9 microns is the max size of features
21:23 < kanzure> (erm, the entire design)
21:24 < kanzure> the UV maskless lithography paper of course only had a min feature size of 17 microns. great. crap.
21:24 < fenn> if you tilt the mirror you can get any range of motion you want
21:25 < kanzure> the way that the STM guy did it was he cut up a piezo into four sections
21:25 < kanzure> for +x, -x, +y, -y
21:25 < fenn> yeah well that's not what you're doing
21:25 < kanzure> but it could be.
21:25 < fenn> look at speaker laser galvo's
21:25 < kanzure> huh? okay.
21:26 < kanzure> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&hs=8rK&num=100&ei=zebKSfHjF8LfnQflhrjMCQ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=speaker+laser+galvanometer&spell=1
21:26 < kanzure> hard drive speakers?
21:27 < fenn> blah.
21:27 < fenn> gluing a mirror onto a hard drive actuator ought to work
21:28 < kanzure> the rotational motion mechanism?
21:28 < kanzure> or the arm?
21:29 < kanzure> "The arm on a typical hard-disk drive can move from hub to edge and back up to 50 times per second -- it is an amazing thing to watch!"
21:29 < kanzure> seems to be restricted to the range of motion of an arc
21:29 < kanzure> heh
21:29 < fenn> that's all you need
21:31 < kanzure> yes
21:31 < kanzure> okay, great
21:31 < kanzure> I guess this means I get to play with hard drive drivers now or something
21:31 < kanzure> erm, software meaning of 'driver'
21:32 < kanzure> "Some early PC drives used a stepper motor to move the heads, and as a result had access times as slow as 80–120 ms, but this was quickly improved by voice-coil type actuation in the late 1980s, reducing access times to around 20 ms."
21:32 < kanzure> hah
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21:35 < kanzure> I'm trying to figure out the actual size of the disks, not just the form factor of a hdd. I guess it's some portion of the overall form factor, but that doesn't really tell me much.
21:35 < kanzure> particularly the radius so that I can figure out what an unhacked hdd will provide
22:01 < fenn> this is like peewee's playhouse meets pink tentacle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzb-ilNcZo4&NR=1
22:02 < fenn> the disks are like 80mm
22:05 < kanzure> that should be enough.
22:06 < kanzure> also, I think I'm too old to remember peewee's playhouse
22:13 < katsmeow-afk> lucky!
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23:10 < kanzure> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/25/shuttle-and-station-imaged-from-the-ground/
23:11 < kanzure> "amateur" astronomer images the ISS
23:12 < kanzure> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap090116.html
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23:18 < kanzure> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/07/diy_hard_disk_laser_scann.html
23:19 < kanzure> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2006/12/how_to_10_xy_la.html
23:19 < kanzure> http://scanwidget.livejournal.com/29342.html
23:27 < kanzure> http://hackedgadgets.com/2006/12/02/ten-dollar-xy-laser-scanner/
23:27 < kanzure> http://spt06.chez-alice.fr/00/scan1.htm
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23:55 < gene> any of you guys out there know a John Baichtal
23:59 < gene> anyone