--- Day changed Sun Apr 19 2009 00:31 -!- duzt [i=duzt__@63.sub-75-204-238.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:11 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@206.111.159.66.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:22 < fenn> i take back my praise for the 'cleverness' of the arduino LCD+buttons shield 03:23 < fenn> they actually did it wrong, so you can't press more than one button at once 03:23 < fenn> what were they thinking! 03:50 -!- cis-action_ [n=cis-acti@206.111.159.66.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:51 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@206.111.159.66.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:55 -!- cis-action_ [n=cis-acti@206.111.159.66.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:21 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-173-3.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:37 -!- elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:29 -!- nsh [n=nsh@host86-133-35-168.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:09 -!- jm|space [n=jm@p57B9D33D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 07:14 < fenn> http://imagebin.org/46068 PCR idea 09:29 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@206.111.159.66.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:02 < kanzure> fenn: funny how there is more engineering on diybio in the last day than there has been on OM, ever 10:02 < kanzure> or maybe that's sad. my meter is kind of messed up. 10:50 < kanzure> heh in situ adaptive PCR control via adding SYBR green and detecting intensity every 0.5 s 10:50 < kanzure> increased intensity -> increased number of strands 11:11 -!- jm|afk [n=jm@p57B9E81D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:15 < kanzure> why not just find favorable thermozymes that let us do pcr without having to have a machine. 11:15 < kanzure> just sayin' 11:28 -!- jm|space [n=jm@p57B9D33D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:39 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has joined #hplusroadmap 11:56 < kanzure> oh right. I was trying to find a cell life cycle phase that amplifies DNA, and then some mutant of that phase that can't stop doing that; then apply the photoporation technique, and you're good to go if you can bare to run some .. blah, what are those extractions of gel runs called? whatever it is you do to the gels to recover DNA. 11:57 < cis-action> hey 11:58 < cis-action> kanzure: http://jb.asm.org/cgi/content/full/182/13/3673 12:11 -!- nsh- [n=nsh@86.133.35.168] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:12 -!- nsh [n=nsh@host86-133-35-168.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:01 -!- duzt [n=duzt__@196.sub-75-204-49.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:05 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:05 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:27 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@206.111.159.66.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [] 13:35 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@206.111.159.66.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:41 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@206.111.159.66.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [] 14:35 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:36 -!- ybit [n=heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:50 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@adsl-68-126-219-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:02 < kanzure> cis-action: hey. 15:02 < cis-action> hi 15:02 < kanzure> 15:02 < kanzure> ComP, a Pilin-Like Protein Essential for Natural Competence in Acinetobacter sp. Strain BD413: Regulation, Modification, and Cellular Localization 15:02 < kanzure> ah, neat 15:02 < kanzure> but is this the only protein necessary? 15:03 * cis-action read the last part of the abstract 15:04 < cis-action> or did you already? 15:05 < kanzure> "dna binding and uptake" hr 15:05 < kanzure> hrm 15:06 < kanzure> "A deletion of comP completely abolished natural transformation but had no effect on piliation, as revealed by electron microscopy (33)." 15:06 < kanzure> this is pretty neat. :) 15:08 < kanzure> "Expression of ComP in E. coli from plasmids pMP1 and pMP2 resulted in malE::comP fusion products of 58 and 53 kDa, respectively." 15:10 < cis-action> Ahh! I meant to say, read the last part of the discussion / conlusion. 15:10 < cis-action> conclusion* 15:10 < kanzure> "Our data rather suggest that the comP promoter responds to nutrient limitations" 15:11 -!- DrTread [n=irchon@cpe-70-112-223-97.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 15:11 -!- duzt [n=duzt__@196.sub-75-204-49.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:11 < kanzure> Hey DrTread. 15:12 < kanzure> cis-action: hrm. well. looks like ComP might not be our guy. 15:12 < kanzure> but that's why I suggested comB8, comB9, comB10 and maybe comB7. 15:14 < DrTread> hola 15:16 < DrTread> what's the sub-topic for today? 15:17 < kanzure> I've been hunting down genes necessary to make an organism automagically take up DNA that happens to be floating by 15:18 < DrTread> ah. a retrovirus sort if thingy. 15:18 < kanzure> nope 15:18 < kanzure> holes in the membrane that DNA can go through 15:19 < DrTread> oh! ok. anthrax. creates lovely holes. 15:19 < DrTread> usually fatal, tho. :( 15:20 < kanzure> hm, the ComG genes look interesting too. (ComG-3, ComG-4, ComG-5) 15:21 < DrTread> trouble is that you need a stable hole, not just a hole. 15:22 < kanzure> DrTread: there are specific organisms that have evolved these genes for the purpose of uptake of DNA 15:22 < kanzure> or at least it seems to be for the purpose of uptake of DNA (because that's what they do) 15:22 < kanzure> so it's a matter of importing the genes over, more or less, as long as the membrane composition is somewhat similar methinks 15:23 < kanzure> hm. I like this one: "All seven comG ORFs are required for DNA binding during transformation of competent Bacillus subtilis" 15:24 < DrTread> these things must be handled delicately. iirc, anthrax uses 4 genes, but many subunits. 15:25 < DrTread> genes are big things. 15:25 < kanzure> it would be ideal if I could find a single gene that encodes a single protein that enables this activity 15:26 < cis-action> The DNA import machinery seems to be powered by the transmembrane proton gradient and seems to take dsDNA, chop one strand up, and suck the other strand through the cell as ssDNA 15:26 < kanzure> in which case? 15:27 < kanzure> there are multiple systems I've been looking at. visP, comB, comP, comG, etc. 15:31 < kanzure> some papers are telling me that some ecoli has natural competence 15:31 < kanzure> with some homologs of the com genes of H. influenzae 15:38 < DrTread> going to work (play) on my blinkey lights. 15:39 -!- DrTread [n=irchon@cpe-70-112-223-97.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:16 < kanzure> the paper called "Internalizing DNA" is good and includes a nice chart. 16:21 -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@wireless-128-62-180-136.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:34 -!- any40908750 [n=someone@99-195-186-143.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:36 -!- any71322348 [n=someone@75-120-36-124.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:40 -!- any33663178 [n=someone@99.194.248.153] has joined #hplusroadmap 16:41 -!- any40908750 [n=someone@99-195-186-143.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:50 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has quit [] 16:50 < kanzure> sonication leads to DNA fracture? 16:52 -!- any49654908 [n=someone@75-120-24-167.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:55 -!- Netsplit wolfe.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: truename 16:56 < cis-action> ok, signing off to get ready for the talk 16:57 -!- Netsplit over, joins: truename 16:57 -!- cis-action [n=cis-acti@adsl-68-126-219-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [] 16:57 < kanzure> you get bonus points for speaking only in nucleotides 16:57 < kanzure> blah 16:58 -!- any71322348 [n=someone@75-120-36-124.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:04 -!- ericzhang [n=chatzill@c-68-44-235-166.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:04 < kanzure> Hey ericzhang. 17:04 < ericzhang> hey kanzure 17:05 < kanzure> mac just stepped out to give a presentation at codecon 17:06 < ericzhang> i see. 17:06 < ericzhang> funny topic name here, haha. 17:06 < kanzure> :) 17:08 -!- ericzhang [n=chatzill@c-68-44-235-166.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:09 -!- ericzhang [n=chatzill@c-68-44-235-166.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:09 < kanzure> welcome back? 17:09 < ericzhang> sorry...browser issues. 17:10 -!- ericzhang is now known as junglistric 17:10 < junglistric> *name change 17:11 < kanzure> hrm. this sucks. ADP1 uses 16 genes for the natural competence mechanism. 17:11 < kanzure> why can't it be one gene. blah. 17:12 < junglistric> haha. 17:12 < fenn> hello eric 17:12 < kanzure> "comE and comF mutants exhibit 10- and 1,000-fold reduced transformation frequencies" 17:13 < junglistric> hi fenn 17:15 -!- nsh- is now known as nsh 17:20 < fenn> diy-ish laptop: http://benheck.com/03-03-2009/darksiders-xbox-360-laptop-for-thq 17:20 < fenn> his other mod is cooler though: http://benheck.com/04-05-2009/commodore-64-original-hardware-laptop#more-496 17:21 < fenn> er, scroll up 17:23 < junglistric> the first one is just a portable xbox...2nd one is pretty cool. 17:23 < junglistric> what one does with a comm64 these days, i dunno. 17:23 < kanzure> brag 17:24 -!- any33054151 [n=someone@99-195-186-166.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:25 < junglistric> or play ThunderBlade and brag 17:26 < kanzure> competence proteins of ADP1: 17:26 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/competence_proteins_ADP1.jpg 17:26 < kanzure> what the setup looks like in Heliobacter pylori: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Natural%20transformation%20in%20Helicobacter%20pylori%20-%20DNA%20transport%20in%20an%20unexpected%20way.pdf.1.jpeg 17:27 < kanzure> and what it looks like in a cousin of ADP1: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Acquisition%20of%20foreign%20DNA%20by%20natural%20transformation%20in%20Acinetobacter%20baylyi%20-%20introgression%20process.pdf.1.jpg 17:30 < fenn> looks about the same except they used letters instead of numbers 17:31 < fenn> of course colored blobs doesn't really tell you much 17:31 < kanzure> SCIENCE! 17:31 < kanzure> a blobby thingy works here by doing something like a blob 17:32 < fenn> i'm going to start doing technical diagrams with colored blobs in them for no particular reason 17:32 < kanzure> actually I was surprised (and happy) to see that some people correctly guessed that there were various hydrophilic-domains of the amino acids that are specifically used in a "DNA sensor/grabber thingy" 17:32 < kanzure> heh 17:32 < kanzure> this mechanism is fairly complicated 17:32 < kanzure> I was expecting a single protein to make up the pore. 17:33 < kanzure> all sorts of wild/funky regulation going on of each individual protein's expression too.. 17:33 < kanzure> for instance, apparently only some species are naturally competent during log phase growth 17:33 < kanzure> however gonororrhea is naturally competent all the time 17:35 < fenn> skyhook wireless maps wifi MAC addresses to geolocation.. eek 17:35 < kanzure> going in the wrong direction. 17:35 < fenn> apparently they had 200 drivers go around with GPS and wifi antenna 17:35 < kanzure> wasn't skyhook some sort of james bond movie military research study codename? 17:35 < kanzure> "operation skyhook" 17:35 < fenn> meh 17:35 -!- duzt [i=duzt__@81.sub-75-207-62.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:35 < fenn> skyhook is hans moravec's idea for an orbital space tether 17:36 < kanzure> you'd fire some sort of flair and a skyhook would come down and swing you away 17:36 < fenn> oh, was that called skyhook too? 17:36 * kanzure nods 17:36 < kanzure> I keep thinking of cows on hooks in slaughter houses though. that seems to be the result of trying to hitch a ride with a fast-moving "sky hook" 17:37 < junglistric> haha 17:39 < kanzure> also found some weird stuff on naturally competent ecoli in water 17:39 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Natural%20plasmid%20transformation%20in%20ecoli.pdf 17:40 < kanzure> oh, B. subtilis competence proteins diagram: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Internalizing_DNA.pdf.B_subtilis_competence_proteins.gif 17:40 -!- any33663178 [n=someone@99.194.248.153] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:41 < kanzure> what is supercoiled monomeric or linear concatemeric DNA? as opposed to linear monomeric DNA. 17:42 < kanzure> is supercoiled monomeric == "plasmid" ? 17:43 < fenn> fancy words 17:43 < fenn> A concatemeric DNA is the product of multiple replication and recombination. The result of this multiple replication is a molecule which contains many copies of the same DNA connected end-to-end. 17:44 < fenn> supercoiled usually means plasmid 17:44 < junglistric> plasmids have more than 1 type of 2ndary structure 17:44 < junglistric> yeah 17:44 < fenn> chromatin keeps DNA in a supercoiled state but it's not in a loop 17:46 -!- junglistric [n=chatzill@c-68-44-235-166.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:47 -!- junglistric [n=chatzill@c-68-44-235-166.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:48 < kanzure> I want a gene pool rss feed. 17:48 < junglistric> thanks for the ADP1 stuff Bryan. doesn't seem so complex when you can just click and buy some competent cells. 17:49 < kanzure> junglistric: it's not diy if you get to buy your way to success :) 17:49 < junglistric> that's the new motto right there 17:49 < kanzure> new? 17:49 < genehacker> talk going on today? 17:49 < kanzure> genehacker: in san francisco, codecon. 17:50 < genehacker> hmmmmm... 17:50 < genehacker> coordinates? 17:50 < kanzure> check codecon.org for coords 17:51 < genehacker> kanzure supercoiled is what you get when you twist a ruberband a lot and it starts to kink 17:52 < genehacker> haven't you ever played with deformed elastomer powered vehicles? 17:52 < kanzure> I doubt the biologists are using proper terminology 17:53 < genehacker> oops 17:53 < junglistric> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Circular_DNA_Supercoiling.png 17:53 < genehacker> http://chemistry.umeche.maine.edu/CHY431/Supercoil3.gif 17:53 < genehacker> this is super coiling 17:53 < junglistric> plectonemic rubber bands 17:54 -!- any86797470 [n=someone@75-120-37-65.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:54 < genehacker> http://chemistry.umeche.maine.edu/CHY431/Nucleic5.html 17:55 < junglistric> dna might coil in different ways ex vivo 17:55 < junglistric> like in a gel 17:56 < junglistric> sometimes when you run plasmids, you see these bands that don't migrate as they should 17:56 < kanzure> right 17:56 < kanzure> I've had gel streaking issues before 17:56 < junglistric> or 2-3 distinct bands 17:57 < junglistric> different supercoils 17:57 -!- any57400707 [n=someone@75-120-27-212.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:57 < junglistric> streaking tends to happen when your DNA is just obliterated 17:57 < junglistric> a spectrum of lengths 17:58 < kanzure> IIRC it was due to contamination and i.e. trusting invitrogen's DNA or something 17:58 -!- any33054151 [n=someone@99-195-186-166.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:58 < junglistric> it could be that the DNA is just degraded somehow 17:59 < junglistric> sometimes you want to fragment DNA, when you're building a library 17:59 < junglistric> for diff. applications 18:00 < junglistric> sequencing for example 18:00 -!- any43369022 [n=someone@75-120-4-191.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:01 < junglistric> hm dinner time. 18:01 < junglistric> later guys. 18:02 -!- junglistric [n=chatzill@c-68-44-235-166.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:12 -!- any47097899 [n=someone@75-120-6-214.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:13 -!- any86797470 [n=someone@75-120-37-65.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:16 -!- any57400707 [n=someone@75-120-27-212.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:26 -!- any11073469 [n=someone@75-120-34-149.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:29 -!- any43369022 [n=someone@75-120-4-191.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:40 -!- any84199248 [n=someone@75-120-12-158.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:44 -!- any47097899 [n=someone@75-120-6-214.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:49 -!- any18972836 [n=someone@75-121-61-193.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:52 -!- any38884253 [n=someone@99.194.255.46] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:53 -!- any84199248 [n=someone@75-120-12-158.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:56 -!- any18972836 [n=someone@75-121-61-193.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:58 -!- any11073469 [n=someone@75-120-34-149.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:01 -!- any30553817 [n=someone@75-120-36-44.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:04 -!- any38884253 [n=someone@99.194.255.46] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:13 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:29 -!- jm|space [n=jm@p57B9E81D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 19:46 -!- jm|afk [n=jm@p57B9E81D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:18 < kanzure> hm 20:18 < kanzure> 1.6 terabits/in^2 via an AFM in room temperature in air, 8 nm bits are written at a rate of 5 kbits/sec 20:19 < kanzure> is it enough to shine a photodiode to detect some change in cantilever angle ? 20:25 < nsh> enough? 20:26 < nsh> i assume it's a pretty damn complicated instrument 20:27 < kanzure> not really 20:27 < kanzure> piezoelectric crystal with sample on it. 20:27 < kanzure> a giant cantilever thingy with a sharp point 20:27 < kanzure> laser pointing at the cantilever 20:27 < kanzure> some way of reading the deflection 20:27 < fenn> photodiode will only give you a point signal 20:28 < fenn> you need a camera sensor 20:28 < kanzure> wikipedia suggests an array of photodiodes 20:28 < fenn> or photodiode strip 20:28 < kanzure> yay 20:28 < fenn> why photodiode btw? 20:28 < kanzure> dunno? 20:28 < fenn> ok.. just remember there are megapixel camera sensors for $10 20:29 < kanzure> wonder how much resolution that would give me. 20:29 < fenn> 1000 per axis 20:29 < kanzure> erm, no, I mean in terms of .. nevermind. 20:29 < fenn> you mean 'how much dynamic range would that give me' 20:29 < fenn> or something 20:30 < kanzure> or something, yes. 20:31 < fenn> whats the AFM writing on? 20:31 < fenn> and doesnt the tip get dull really quickly? 20:31 < kanzure> titanium 20:31 < kanzure> it seems to be some sort of oxidization process 20:32 < fenn> oh 20:33 < kanzure> what material should be used for the cantilever? 20:33 < kanzure> it's basically a "spring" but I really don't know 20:34 < kanzure> ideally, running a silver-coated hair would be awesome, but it wouldn't necessarily stay put 20:34 < kanzure> I guess I have to wonder about how much bend you get per nanoNewton of force or something on a metal bar? 20:36 < kanzure> "the AFM can only imnage a maximum height on the order of micrometers and a maximum scanning area of around 150 by 150 micrometers" 20:37 < kanzure> videoAFM heh 20:40 < fenn> you and your hair obsession 20:41 < fenn> dont you know hair varies by a factor of 10 in thickness 20:58 < genehacker> http://blog.reprap.org/2009/04/first-reprapped-circuit.html 20:59 < genehacker> you talking about the millipede? 21:02 -!- any86245837 [n=someone@99-195-188-110.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:04 < kanzure> fenn: I can't help it, I grow so much of it 21:06 < kanzure> hm. 21:06 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Atomic_Force_Microscope_Science_Museum_Lond.jpg 21:06 < kanzure> erm 21:06 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Atomic_Force_Microscope_Science_Museum_London.jpg 21:10 < genehacker> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnu4lmOnX00&feature=related 21:10 < kanzure> genehacker: that was linked in the comments on the last link you linked to.. 21:11 < genehacker> yeah 21:11 < genehacker> it's cool nonetheless 21:11 < genehacker> that solder pump sounds a bit insidious 21:13 < kanzure> hey, what are those alligator clip thingies that are made entirely out of metal? the ones that clip. 21:15 < fenn> alligator clips 21:16 -!- any30553817 [n=someone@75-120-36-44.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:20 -!- any02460025 [n=someone@75-121-60-60.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:38 -!- any86245837 [n=someone@99-195-188-110.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:47 -!- any47461179 [n=someone@75-120-19-76.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:48 -!- kanzure- [n=bryan@66.112.232.230] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:48 < kanzure-> open flame + micropipette tip = bent AFM cantilever tip. then glue a sparkle-glitter-thingy on the bent part and shine the laser. 21:49 < kanzure-> is there non-deflection AFM? 21:55 < fenn> i dont know anything about AFM 21:56 < fenn> besides what you've dosed me with 21:56 -!- any61846220 [n=someone@99-195-188-115.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:57 < fenn> why do they use lasers vs for example a capacitive probe? 21:57 < fenn> to detect bending of the cantilever 22:02 < kanzure-> it's weird, I thought I knew what AFM was too 22:03 < kanzure-> but I never heard of just watching for the bending angle or whatever 22:03 < kanzure-> what do you mean a capacitive probe? 22:03 < kanzure-> a capacitor? 22:05 < fenn> like a touchpad 22:05 < fenn> capacitor is two metal plates in close proximity 22:05 -!- any02460025 [n=someone@75-121-60-60.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:05 < fenn> the capacitance varies with the distance 22:05 < fenn> you set up a resonant circuit and measure the frequency 22:05 < fenn> frequency is proportional to capacitance is proportional to distance 22:06 < fenn> it's not linear though 22:06 < kanzure-> good news, somebody already patented "scanning capacitance microscopy" 22:06 < kanzure-> hand over a million dollars. or else. 22:07 < kanzure-> 1989 22:07 -!- jm|space [n=jm@p57B9E81D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:08 < fenn> seems people dont really go after patent infringers unless they've already made a lot of money on it 22:08 < genehacker> micropippette tips are pretty big 22:08 -!- any48712615 [n=someone@75-120-44-254.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:08 < kanzure-> huh you must be in the clear then 22:08 * kanzure- snickers 22:08 < fenn> i should infringe more patents 22:09 < genehacker> you can only infringe on patents if you make it and sell it 22:09 < genehacker> trading it on the other hand... 22:09 < kanzure-> genehacker: according to who 22:09 < fenn> genehacker: not true 22:09 < genehacker> those fuckers 22:09 < fenn> if you build and use it you're infringing 22:09 < kanzure-> it's a living hell 22:10 < genehacker> LETS INFRINGE SOME PATENTS FOR THE LULZ 22:10 < fenn> kanzure i need you to apply your massive social networking skills towards getting me more money 22:10 < genehacker> http://www.ifpi.org/ 22:10 < genehacker> check it out 22:11 < kanzure-> wait, wait, I have social networking skills? 22:11 < genehacker> yeah 22:11 < fenn> something like that 22:11 < genehacker> you know a bunch of transhumanists 22:11 < kanzure-> nobody that has any money. 22:11 < kanzure-> fenn: I'll look into it. 22:12 -!- any47461179 [n=someone@75-120-19-76.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:13 < kanzure-> hrm, I'd like to capacitance scanning microscopy except my upload isn't all that good 22:13 < fenn> is that a book? 22:13 < kanzure-> no. wireless just sucks here. 22:14 < kanzure-> oh look, it jumped up to 8.2 kb/sec 22:14 < fenn> wowza 22:14 < fenn> time to eat some pringles 22:16 < fenn> don't buy a bunch of stuff from deal extreme if you expect to get it any time soon 22:17 < kanzure-> fenn, how soon do you need monies? 22:18 < kanzure-> scanning capacitance microscopy: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Scanning%20capacitance%20microscopy%20on%20a%2025%20nm%20scale.pdf 22:18 < fenn> just in general 22:18 < fenn> there's a lot of things i could be working on right now if i had cash to throw around 22:19 < kanzure-> andrew hessel suggested I needed a patron 22:19 < kanzure-> do they make those any more? 22:19 < fenn> good question. tell me if you find out 22:20 < fenn> it makes a lot more sense than paying for specific art objects as if they were products 22:21 < kanzure-> I think that paper is exactly what you were thinking of 22:22 < fenn> does it measure capacitance between the tip and the surface of interest? 22:22 < fenn> because that's not what i meant 22:22 < kanzure-> works for both insulators and conductors 22:22 < kanzure-> so I would assume it's not tip-surface capacitance measurements 22:25 -!- any61846220 [n=someone@99-195-188-115.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:31 -!- any48712615 is now known as katsmeow 22:31 < fenn> it measures capacitance between tip and surface 22:37 < kanzure-> ouch. 22:39 -!- nsh [n=nsh@86.133.35.168] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:42 < fenn> anyway that's cool as it gives you another dimension to image 22:42 < fenn> you could use the same tip for STM, AFM, and capacitance microscopy, right? 22:42 < kanzure-> why do people and papers complain about having to switch out tips all the time then? 22:43 < katsmeow> they crash them? the tips oxidize? 22:43 < kanzure-> ok, that's reasonable. 22:43 < fenn> afm wears out the tips doesn't it? 22:44 < fenn> it sounds like capacitance microscopy isnt used very much 22:44 < kanzure-> you need a better name for your version of capacitance microscopy 22:44 < fenn> it's not 'my version of capacitance microscopy' 22:45 < kanzure-> then what is it? 22:45 < fenn> it's just a bend sensor for a standard AFM cantilever 22:45 < kanzure-> huh? I thought you said the distance between a sample-holding plate and the cantilever tip 22:46 < kanzure-> oh well. I was wrong 22:47 -!- chizu_ is now known as chizu 22:53 -!- PeerInfinity [n=someone@216.36.180.162] has quit [] 23:05 < kanzure-> I can't seem to find piezo nanowires. am I missing out on some good search terms? 23:05 < katsmeow> piezo nanowires? never heard of it 23:06 < katsmeow> piezo implies crystal, which isn't a wire? 23:06 < kanzure-> you can't have a crystal wire? 23:06 < fenn> The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI): introducing and improving copyright laws, anti-piracy enforcement, anti-piracy litigation, internet monitoring and closing of illegal sites (Censorship), marketing and public relations efforts, and working to create new forms of Digital Rights Management. 23:06 < katsmeow> umm,, i think it would shatter easily 23:07 < kanzure-> fenn: is that supposed to be funny, sad, or none of the above 23:07 < fenn> In mid-October 2007, after the IFPI let the ifpi.com domain registration lapse, ownership of the ifpi.com domain was transferred to The Pirate Bay, under the backronym "International Federation of Pirates Interests, 23:08 < fenn> then they tried to switch to ifpi.org but the DNS was hacked again 23:08 < fenn> er, hacked twice (first time was just stupidity by ifpi) 23:08 < katsmeow> kanzure http://ltn.vbnlive.com/site/upload/document/Microsoft_PowerPoint_-_9._Paul_Beecher_Nokia.pdf 23:09 < kanzure-> katsmeow: what is it? 23:09 < katsmeow> an url 23:09 < kanzure-> .. 23:09 < katsmeow> to nanowire touch sensor 23:09 < kanzure-> please don't make me click stuff 23:09 < katsmeow> Microsoft PowerPoint - 9. Paul Beecher Nokia.ppt 23:09 < katsmeow> ZnO Nanowires for flexible tactile arrays. Characteristics for sensor 23:09 < katsmeow> applications. • Uniaxial piezoelectric response. • Enabler of novel touch sensor 23:09 < katsmeow> ... 23:09 < katsmeow> http://ltn.vbnlive.com/site/upload/document/Microsoft_PowerPoint_-_9._Paul_Beecher_Nokia.pdf 23:09 < kanzure-> hm. 23:09 < kanzure-> neat. 23:09 < katsmeow> or 23:10 < katsmeow> http://www-mcr.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/wiki/Aron_Rachamim 23:10 < katsmeow> Research 23:10 < katsmeow> I am investigating the use of zinc oxide nanowires in touch sensor devices (e.g. displays on mobile phones). Zinc oxide nanowires are piezoelectric so compression of them generates a voltage. Conversely application of a voltage causes them to extend so there is also potential for touch feedback to the user (e.g. they could press on the screen to call someone and the screen could vibrate so they could feel that the call is taking p 23:10 < katsmeow> This research is being funded by Nokia. 23:10 < kanzure-> so .. resolution anyone? 23:10 < kanzure-> gah, wireless sucks here 23:11 < katsmeow> sorry i mentioned it was for wireless devices 23:11 < kanzure-> no, my wireless connection 23:11 < kanzure-> because I can't download anything quickly, or upload 23:11 < katsmeow> ah 23:12 < fenn> where's "here"? 23:12 < kanzure-> dorm 23:45 -!- junglistric [n=chatzill@c-68-44-235-166.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:50 -!- junglistric [n=chatzill@c-68-44-235-166.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.1b3/20090305133223]"]