--- Day changed Thu Apr 30 2009 00:08 < fenn> low cost pcr only $95 for the book?? 00:08 < fenn> what planet are these people from 01:20 < fenn> that last arrow in your diagram should be labeled "and then a miracle happens..." 01:29 < kanzure-> not if you have a small database of quickie equations 01:29 < kanzure-> campbell did his thesis with 300 components in that format 01:30 < kanzure-> er, sorry, I mean the format that represented that bottom mechanical thingy portion of the diagram 01:30 < fenn> i'm skimming a-design, it actually looks pretty good 01:30 < kanzure-> gasp 01:30 < kanzure-> yeah, I found the FP stuff odd (page 43 or 63, I don't know which is which) 01:30 < genehacker> link? 01:30 < kanzure-> it was basically the same thing as what I was calling "control point" 01:31 < kanzure-> http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/campbell/thesis.pdf 01:31 < fenn> http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/org/IDIG/The A-Design approach to managing automated design synthesis.pdf 01:31 < kanzure-> oh. I linked you to the thesis :p 01:31 < fenn> not sure i want to read 63 pages right now 01:31 < fenn> 404 01:31 < kanzure-> that's only because it hates you 01:32 < fenn> fair enough 01:32 < kanzure-> http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/campbell/campbell-dissertation.pdf 01:32 < kanzure-> I would not recommend reading it 01:32 < kanzure-> most of it was just lots of fluff/padding 01:32 < fenn> what's the difference between a thesis and a dissertation anyway? 01:34 < kanzure-> ooh, I've never seen that 01:34 < kanzure-> "Is the design as presented above good? [Y/N]" 01:35 < kanzure-> so instead of straight up using physical quantities, he and some previous students have been using bondgraph voodoo magic 01:35 < kanzure-> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/campbell-bondgraphs.png 01:35 < kanzure-> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/design-utility-search.png 01:38 < fenn> that last diagram makes no sense unless you're reading the paper 01:40 < fenn> so if he put all this work into a-design how come you're all using graphsynth which totally sucks and does nothing useful? 01:41 < kanzure-> I'm not sure .. but I've already had to "re-come-up-with-stuff" that turns out looking like a-design (particularly the representation portions) 01:43 < kanzure-> so I emailed him after reading his thesis (or the parts of it that were useful) 01:43 < kanzure-> and he responded with this paper as clarification re: the representation stuff 01:43 < kanzure-> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/New%20advances%20in%20the%20functional%20modeling%20of%20electro-mechanical%20components.pdf 01:54 < genehacker> hey kanzure you don't think you could make an automated design program that designs 3d cartesian positioning systems? 01:54 < genehacker> IE automatically design a better reprap cartesian robot 01:54 < kanzure-> what is involved in a cartesian positioner 01:54 < kanzure-> and why not use emc? 01:55 < genehacker> the ability to move in 3 dimensions 01:55 < kanzure-> hrm 01:55 < genehacker> I want to find a way to replace all that threaded rod with plastic 01:55 < kanzure-> so I'm not very familiar with different types of positioners 01:55 < kanzure-> I know there are some piezos, but that's not really a design issue 01:55 < genehacker> really? 01:56 < kanzure-> that's more of an issue of getting a hunk of piezo crystal 01:56 < genehacker> not even SCARA? 01:56 < kanzure-> wha? 01:56 < kanzure-> what's that? 01:56 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCARA 01:56 < genehacker> it's what we have to figure out how to drive in ME 218 01:57 < kanzure-> what's 218? 01:57 < genehacker> a class 01:57 < kanzure-> which one 01:57 < genehacker> engineering computation methods 01:57 < kanzure-> neat 01:57 < genehacker> ME205 levelled up 01:57 < kanzure-> so, what do you mean by referencing SCARA 01:57 < genehacker> you don't drive a really robot 01:57 < kanzure-> do you mean you have a SCARA robot and you have to write software for it? 01:57 < kanzure-> or do you mean you get to design linkages, or what? 01:57 < genehacker> it's a non-cartesian positioning system 01:58 < kanzure-> wikipedia says it can access the xy plane 01:58 < genehacker> you write a program that takes a point and outputs angles on the arm 01:58 < kanzure-> how is that non-cartesian 01:58 < fenn> what was that FEA shape optimization program 01:58 < kanzure-> fenn: freefem++ 01:59 < fenn> was that it? looks like just a generic FEA engine 01:59 < genehacker> non-cartesian as in the coordinate system it makes isn't cartesian 01:59 < genehacker> think polar vs. cartesian 01:59 < kanzure-> fenn: yes. it was another paper that did the optimization magic. 01:59 < kanzure-> search for "structural optimization with freefem++" 01:59 < kanzure-> paper: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Structural%20optimization%20with%20FreeFem++.pdf 01:59 < fenn> ah here we go http://www.cmap.polytechnique.fr/~allaire/freefem_en.html 01:59 < kanzure-> but it was a web page that they had 02:00 < genehacker> the vector you input to the robot is the angles of the arm 02:00 < kanzure-> so, I still don't understand 02:00 < fenn> so anyway, genehacker throw your constraints into that and it should barf out some optimized plastic shapes 02:00 < fenn> at least that's my kanzure-level understanding of it :P 02:00 < kanzure-> do you get to choose different actuators? 02:00 < kanzure-> if so, which actuators are fair game? 02:00 < genehacker> no, but if you want 02:00 < kanzure-> do you get to use weird linkages? 02:01 < kanzure-> huh? 02:01 < kanzure-> so yes or no? 02:01 < genehacker> if you want to 02:01 < kanzure-> fenn: err. what? 02:01 < genehacker> I was just thinking of optimizing the current desing 02:01 < kanzure-> fenn: constraints for cartesian movement? 02:01 < genehacker> you have 3 orthogonal axes of movement 02:01 < fenn> btw genehacker emc runs SCARA kinematics just fine 02:01 < genehacker> EMC? 02:01 * kanzure- sighs 02:01 < fenn> ffs you dont know about emc? 02:02 < genehacker> I did at one point 02:02 < fenn> linuxcnc.org 02:02 < genehacker> but in my current sleep deprived state 02:02 < genehacker> WHOA 02:02 < genehacker> wait a second 02:02 < genehacker> wait one second 02:02 * fenn waits 02:02 < genehacker> did you just say runs SCARA kinematics? 02:02 < genehacker> as in figures out how to move a machine tool? 02:03 < kanzure-> hahahah 02:03 < kanzure-> on the news, there was a mother talking about the flu 02:03 < kanzure-> and how she is protecting her child 02:03 < kanzure-> and she said at the end, 02:03 < genehacker> to machine stuff 02:03 < fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?videos 02:03 < genehacker> by not vaccinating 02:03 < kanzure-> "so just do what you're supposed to do, keep them clean and keep them in doors if they're sick" 02:03 < kanzure-> "and hopefully they'll find a vaccine soon" 02:03 < kanzure-> not that we, you know, don't already have one :p 02:04 < genehacker> unfortunately there isn't going to be one soon 02:04 < genehacker> however... 02:04 < kanzure-> er, wait 02:04 < genehacker> if we get this gene synth working... 02:04 < kanzure-> I've screwed up 02:04 < genehacker> fenn can it do polar robots 02:04 < fenn> yes 02:04 < kanzure-> isn't that just a form of coordinate transformation though? 02:05 < kanzure-> am I missing something substantial? 02:05 < fenn> it's "just" a coordinate transformation 02:05 < kanzure-> right 02:05 < genehacker> can it move the head at constant velocity> 02:05 < kanzure-> doesn't that depend on your controller 02:06 < genehacker> if it does 02:06 < fenn> there's all kinds of other crap you have to keep separate in the cognitive model though, which trips up a lot of people (programmers) 02:06 < kanzure-> when doing coordinate transformations? 02:06 < kanzure-> hrm. 02:06 < genehacker> is it compatible with legos? 02:06 < fenn> what do you mean constant velocity? 02:06 < genehacker> hmmmm... 02:06 < genehacker> move in straight line at 3 units/s 02:06 < fenn> there's variable blending of corners to keep the speed up, if that's what you mean 02:07 < fenn> sure, that's the most basic thing 02:07 < genehacker> I want to move the arm of a scara robot in a straight line at constant speed 02:08 < genehacker> actually I want to use a polar robot to make straight lines of goop 02:08 < fenn> aw poo now i can't find the screencast of the scara simulation 02:08 < fenn> i never did figure out how to do a screencast of opengl stuff 02:09 < fenn> or i'd just record it myself 02:09 < kanzure-> the mesa 3d people should know 02:09 < kanzure-> (software layer opengl) 02:09 < genehacker> looks like it might work for me fenn 02:09 < fenn> i was using software rendering 02:09 < genehacker> so you know I made a polar 3d printer 02:09 < fenn> so you say 02:10 < kanzure-> you're all liars! 02:10 < genehacker> I never got around to writing software to drive it 02:10 < fenn> yes, i cut down your cherry tree 02:10 < fenn> i cannot tell a lie 02:11 < genehacker> http://www.statesman.com/ 02:11 < kanzure-> what about it? 02:12 < genehacker> swine flu 02:12 < genehacker> well I'm going to bed 02:12 < genehacker> enjoy this: 02:14 < genehacker> http://www.mrdv.org/experiences.html 02:15 < genehacker> automatic assembly of sand molds and stuff 02:15 < genehacker> http://www.honeybeerobotics.com/eva-compatible.html 02:16 < genehacker> special truss joints made for robots to assemble 02:16 < genehacker> can't figure out how they work 02:18 < genehacker> fenn that simulation show the arm moving at constant velocity! 02:18 < fenn> heh "Egypt slaughtered all its pigs" 02:19 < genehacker> $100 genome 02:19 < genehacker> http://www.technologyreview.com/biomedicine/22112/ 02:19 < genehacker> well I'm AFK 02:24 * kanzure- is still looking for his sap 02:25 < kanzure-> or some way to make roots weep. 02:28 < kanzure-> "The ability to secrete a vast array of compounds into the rhizosphere is one of the most remarkable metabolic features of plant roots, with nearly 5% to 21% of all photosynthetically fixed carbon being transferred to the rhizosphere through root exudates (Marschner, 1995)." 02:29 < fenn> wow 02:29 < kanzure-> it would be so amazingly awesome if we can just get roots to cry out our recombinant proteins 02:29 < kanzure-> put those things into a mist/vapor bioreactor 02:30 < kanzure-> hang them on some metal mesh 02:30 < kanzure-> probably something like a plastic bag + fan + water bottle + growth media of undetermined substrate 02:30 < kanzure-> er, plastic bag would have a hole at the top so that the greeneries could be facing the sun or something 02:30 < kanzure-> or a lighting system. 02:32 < kanzure-> # Marschner H (1995) Mineral Nutrition of Higher Plants, Ed 2. Academic Press, London 02:32 < kanzure-> well that's not encouraging 02:35 < kanzure-> "Structural analysis of secreted root slime from maize" 02:38 < kanzure-> interesting. plant cells "separate" from the root cap to go out to test the soil for various pathogenic-incompatibilities before a root "decides" to grow in one direction in some species. 02:38 < kanzure-> heh "mucilage" 02:43 < fenn> scout cells? 02:47 < kanzure-> yes 02:48 < kanzure-> I wish *I* had scout cells for dealing with potentially moving into new places or with new people .. 02:48 < kanzure-> leave a few neurons behind or something? 02:49 < kanzure-> eric might find a use for something like that 02:50 < kanzure-> hrm. there's not much of an evolutionary advantage to secrete any particular protein 02:50 < kanzure-> there seems to be advantages to secreting that slime of organic compounds 02:51 < kanzure-> I would think that protein excretion could at least be used to break down hard soil, right? 02:51 < kanzure-> "Regulation of synthesis and transport of secreted proteins in cereal aleurone 02:56 < fenn> a lot of secreted "slime" (glycoprotein) is used for communication with bacteria and moisture retention 02:56 < kanzure-> this is the best I can find 02:56 < kanzure-> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Production%20of%20recombinant%20proteins%20in%20plant%20root%20exudates.pdf 02:56 < kanzure-> production of recombinant proteins in plant root exudates 02:57 < fenn> why plants btw? is yeast or bacteria not good enough? 02:57 < kanzure-> I like the concept of dripping 02:57 < kanzure-> and want to avoid buffers, purification steps, centrifugation 02:57 < kanzure-> god, I suck for wanting to avoid centrifugation 02:58 < fenn> you know you can code for protein secretion from cells 02:58 < fenn> er, bacteria and yeast 02:58 < fenn> well, bacteria at least 02:58 < kanzure-> right 02:58 < kanzure-> I've seen a few papers about that 02:58 < kanzure-> but it secretes it into the growth medium 02:58 < kanzure-> and that isn't necessarily human digestable 02:58 < fenn> yeah it's full of cells :\ 02:58 < kanzure-> not that I'm necessarily interested in the human digestion of the products 02:58 < kanzure-> but it would be a very nice perk 02:59 < fenn> fertilizer doesnt sound too appetizing either 02:59 < kanzure-> for plants? 02:59 < kanzure-> that's why you use a mist/vapor reactor 02:59 < fenn> plant fertilizer for human digestion 02:59 < fenn> mist is unnecessary complication 03:00 < kanzure-> why? 03:00 < fenn> you can grow plants in a pot of water if needed 03:00 < kanzure-> but then you have the roots in the water 03:00 < fenn> sfw 03:00 < kanzure-> fertilizer? 03:00 < fenn> if you catch mist droplets it'll be full of water and fertilizer too 03:00 < kanzure-> I think we can mechanically constrain that cleverly 03:01 < fenn> how? 03:01 < fenn> you can't have one droplet full of protein and another droplet full of fertilizer, not without some kind of purification 03:01 < kanzure-> make the mist travel more in one direction and have a collection unit thingy 03:01 < fenn> bah whatever 03:01 * fenn stomps off to do some errand 03:02 < kanzure-> well, I'll consider putting it in water 03:02 < kanzure-> but not if the fertilizer is some nasty cow shit 03:31 < kanzure-> "In modern tobacco farming, Nicotiana seeds are scattered onto the surface of the soil, as their germination is activated by light." (that last paper uses tobacco plants) 03:31 < kanzure-> looks ok to seed them in manure but then wash them thoroughly when transplanting them to a liquid medium or something (once the roots start growing significantly) 03:32 < kanzure-> is it illegal to grow tobacco, and should I care? 03:38 < ybit> finally the interwebs are working again 03:40 < ybit> who's solved the flu epidemic yet 03:43 < ybit> any i never got a response (unless it was while i was offline all day), where did this nice cell membrane svg come from 03:43 < kanzure-> ybit: solved, sort of 03:43 < kanzure-> not really though 03:44 < kanzure-> did you see the oseltamivir synthesis steps I posted to diybio? 03:44 < kanzure-> the genome has been partly sequenced and links were posted to diybio 03:44 < kanzure-> in other news, I've been reading up on recombinant protein expression in plant roots. 03:45 < ybit> from latex right? 03:45 < ybit> of a dandelion or something like that 03:45 < kanzure-> well, the latex stuff is if you want to crunch up a dandelion stem and leafs 03:45 < kanzure-> and then you have to centrifuge it 03:45 < kanzure-> but, roots just secrete shit all the time 03:46 < ybit> http://imgbin.org/images/473.jpg :: picture of the newly planted garden 03:46 < ybit> taken this sunday 03:46 < ybit> http://imgbin.org/images/474.jpg 03:46 < ybit> http://imgbin.org/images/474.jpg 03:47 < ybit> eh 03:47 < kanzure-> your garden? 03:47 < ybit> http://imgbin.org/images/475.jpg 03:47 < ybit> yup 03:47 < kanzure-> not to be mean, but the quality of those photos is terrible 03:47 < ybit> i am mapping it out as well 03:47 < ybit> not mean at all 03:47 < ybit> it's from my crappy cell 03:48 < ybit> that's my initial take on it with inkscape: http://imgbin.org/images/472.png 03:48 < ybit> need to find some better mapping tools and need to have the soil tested as well 03:49 < ybit> there's also a creek there, forgot to put it on there 03:51 < ybit> so what did drew endy have to say? :P 03:52 < kanzure-> nothing much 03:53 < kanzure-> he just pointed out some big problems with the article 03:53 < kanzure-> for instance, the author said that you could get free biobricks from the biobrick foundation 03:53 < kanzure-> or that diybio-boston would send you plasmids 03:53 < ybit> meh, got to hate that 03:53 < kanzure-> so he was concerned about the lies 03:53 < kanzure-> and in particular also concerned with the "anti-scientist" mentality being portrayed 03:54 < ybit> ..when journalists botch an article 03:54 < ybit> here's an example, though not as interesting as diybio: www.florala.net/news/2009/01/29/Life/Quidditch.Tournament-3602923.shtml 03:55 * ybit wonders why he didn't go for the journalist 03:55 < kanzure-> oh yay, http://www.google.com/search?q=grow+your+own+tabacco&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a 03:55 < kanzure-> apparently people already do it 03:56 < kanzure-> hrm. and people already do hydroponic tobacco. 03:56 < kanzure-> http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hydro/msg0819555231905.html 03:58 < kanzure-> http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/faq/growing+tobacco.html 03:59 < ybit> not yet... "[22:43] did you see the oseltamivir synthesis steps I posted to diybio?" 03:59 < kanzure-> http://www.howtogrowtobacco.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=226 03:59 < kanzure-> 5 to 10 gallon bubbler? blah. 03:59 < kanzure-> how is it that they were using just a flask in the paper? 04:02 < ybit> sweet. i'm looking forward to doing a lot of what's mentioned on the mailing lists soon, money is starting to accumulate so that i may 04:04 < kanzure-> this is looking increasingly more reasonable 04:04 < kanzure-> did you see the agrobacterium harvesting stuff? 04:04 < kanzure-> you can hunt around a forest for it 04:04 < kanzure-> freeze-thaw method of transformation 04:04 < kanzure-> then streak it over the leafs of your favorite plant 04:04 < ybit> i saw it, haven't read it yet 04:08 < ybit> have you guys seen the studies showing that older bilingual minds are sharper than monolingual ones? 04:11 < ybit> i wonder how similar a bilingual mind is with a monolingual computer scientist or mathematician 04:15 < kanzure-> maybe supermemo.com has something 04:15 < ybit> i forgot about supermemo 04:19 < ybit> never tried it either 04:19 < ybit> there are some interesting faqs though 04:27 < kanzure-> hrm. generation of induced pluripotent stem cells via recombinant proteins. 04:27 < kanzure-> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Generation%20of%20induced%20pluripotent%20stem%20cells%20using%20recombinant%20proteins%20-%20purely%20protein%20pluripotency.pdf 04:28 < kanzure-> and then the recent one I just linked to- re: recombinant protein expression in tobacco roots, .. might be interesting. 04:28 < kanzure-> those proteins reprogram somatic cells. which is interesting. 04:30 < kanzure-> taq polymerase. 04:57 < kanzure-> hey cis-action 10:10 < fenn> so, once you get a transformed tobacco plant, can you keep it alive indefinitely? 10:10 < fenn> or could you breed it and make seeds? 10:18 < fenn> kanzure-: did you ever read the paper about transforming with pollen? they used tobacco specifically 10:26 < fenn> by Wantana Tangpremsri 10:27 * fenn kicks filebin.* 12:40 < fenn> ftp://166.111.30.161/pub/3.ÉúÎïÎÄÏ×/Methods in Molecular Biology/Agrobacterium Protocols I.pdf 12:40 < fenn> ftp://166.111.30.161/pub/3.ÉúÎïÎÄÏ×/Methods in Molecular Biology/Agrobacterium Protocols II.pdf 12:52 < fenn> 500 pages with pictures is a bit more than i expected in a 5MB file 13:49 < wrldpc> Colossus: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7412690463406323384 13:49 < wrldpc> The film is being played today at the Brattle Square theatre in Cambridge as part of the Cambridge Sci Festival. 13:51 < wrldpc> http://www.openfarmtech.org 13:58 < kanzure-> fenn: no, what pollen paper? 13:58 < kanzure-> wrldpc: we talk about openfarmtech.org in here all the time :p 13:58 < wrldpc> sorry 14:03 < kanzure-> wrldpc: why? 14:13 < kanzure-> oh, you gave me an author name. thank you. 14:13 < kanzure-> hrm. pollen as a vector. 14:13 < kanzure-> http://www.fao.org/agris/search/display.do?f=./1998/v2410/TH1998000390.xml;TH1998000390 14:16 < fenn> "Genetic transformation in Nicotiana tabacum using pollen as a vector", specifically 14:16 < fenn> but it looks like the same protocol 14:19 < kanzure-> don't have access. 14:19 < fenn> if you can find a place for me to upload .pdf's that isnt broken, i'll upload it 14:19 < wrldpc> filedropper.com 14:21 < fenn> web 2.0: making simple things complicated! 14:21 < kanzure> fenn: you already have a user account on adl.serveftp.org 14:22 < fenn> ah so i do 14:22 < kanzure> no idea what the password is 14:23 < fenn> good :) 14:23 < kanzure> are you able to log in? 14:23 < fenn> yes 14:24 < kanzure> please put it in public_html just for the sake of it 14:24 < kanzure> or, er, nevermind 14:25 < kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/pollen_transformation.pdf 14:25 < fenn> yay 14:27 < faceface> I am not sure if this is the right place to post this but I do not know 14:27 < faceface> who else to ask. I am currently applying to college and want to study 14:27 < faceface> bioinformatics. I have a few questions which my college advisors cannot 14:27 < kanzure-> "any DNA introduced into the pollen tube tip this way would have to .." 14:27 < kanzure-> RAPE 14:27 < faceface> wrong channel 14:27 < faceface> its not me its some other dude 14:27 < kanzure-> yeah I saw the email 14:27 < faceface> kanzure-: meant to paste in #bioinf 14:27 < faceface> kanzure-: I am a director of bioinf.org now 14:28 < kanzure-> do you mean bioinformatics.org ? 14:28 < faceface> yup 14:28 < kanzure-> hm 14:28 < faceface> I don't know what it means 14:28 < faceface> but they voted me in 14:28 < kanzure-> well, make sure you take good care of /pogo/ 14:28 < faceface> Page not found 14:29 < faceface> The Pogo - Posam Project! 14:29 < kanzure> http://www.bioinformatics.org/pogo/ 14:29 < kanzure> seems to work for me. 14:29 < faceface> I read pongo 14:29 < faceface> but I see it now 14:30 < faceface> what can I do to help? 14:31 < kanzure-> just don't let it vanish 14:31 < kanzure-> fenn: so, this looks easier than hunting for agrobacterium 14:34 < splicer> (I wonder if it's control system is named after the old punk rock dance) 14:35 < splicer> (( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogo_(dance) )) 14:51 < kanzure> neat, koyaanisqatsi is on google video now 14:51 < kanzure> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5539613947839465921&hl=en 14:52 < faceface> awesome! 14:52 < faceface> I love that 15:02 < splicer> speaking of google video... did you see the show about bacteriophages? apparently the georgians have used bacteriophages and since the 40:ies... and use them as often as traditional antibiotics still. 15:02 < splicer> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8887931967515748990 15:02 < splicer> seems to be a possible solution to the resistant bacteria problem 15:11 < kanzure> http://singularityhub.com/2009/04/29/who-is-diybioorg/ 15:21 < splicer> I love the quote "Once you go around the internet a certain number of times, you begin to run into the same people, ..." 15:29 < kanzure> are you being sarcastic? 15:31 < splicer> no 15:31 < splicer> it's something that's true... just never heard it put like that before 15:32 < splicer> (Powaqqatsi and Naqoyqatsi are on google video too) 15:34 < kanzure> http://prezi.com/51683/view/#47 annoying bodyhacking presentation 15:34 < kanzure> (for austin) 15:34 < kanzure> splicer: I like "Anima Mundi". 15:37 < splicer> looks nice 15:37 < splicer> (anima mundi) 15:56 < kanzure-> I forgot how terrible most AMVs are. people don't even know how to synch up clips to music any more. 15:56 < kanzure-> and rarely anybody edits out mouth movement .. amateurs. 15:57 < kanzure-> splicer: I like 10:40~ in the video in particular. 17:07 < xp_prg> zinc fingers look cool! 17:08 < xp_prg> can zinc fingers be used in a xenopus egg? 17:14 < kanzure> what is a pro domain? 17:21 < genehacker> kanzure I think you are forgetting the true purpose of AMVs 17:22 < genehacker> the true purpose of an AMV is to liberate music by using fair use 17:57 -!- duzt|sleep is now known as duzt 17:58 < kanzure> cis-action: hey. 17:59 < cis-action> hi. 17:59 < kanzure> any idea what a prodomain is? 18:21 < genehacker> http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article6169488.ece 18:21 < genehacker> we need mesh nets 18:23 < kanzure> so.. 18:23 < kanzure> there's a protein we can express in tobacco 18:23 < kanzure> that inhibits myostatin 18:24 < genehacker> hehehehehe 18:29 < genehacker> hope they aren't right about internet brownouts 18:32 < genehacker> hmmm.... 18:32 < genehacker> we need wifi blimps 18:35 < genehacker> how would we do long range communication though? 18:35 < kanzure> satellites 18:35 < kanzure> lasers 18:35 < kanzure> pidgeons 18:36 < genehacker> what about rain? 18:36 < genehacker> that stops lasers 18:36 < genehacker> though I've heard of military submarines talking to satellites WHILE UNDERWATER 18:37 < genehacker> perhaps just build so many wifi blimps that the FCC doesn't bother asking for liscenses 18:37 < kanzure> residues 42 through 115 of myostatin can be expressed to inhibit myostatin. 18:38 < kanzure> 42 through 115. just remember that and you're good to go. 18:38 < genehacker> huh? 18:38 < kanzure> don't know if this has to be intraveneous or if oral administration of this propeptide will cause myostatin inhibition. hrm. 18:38 < genehacker> mystatin inhibits myostatin? 18:38 < kanzure> a region of myostatin :) 18:39 < genehacker> interesting 18:39 < genehacker> makes sense 18:40 < genehacker> why are you trying to inhibit myostatin again? 18:41 < genehacker> I know what the result is 18:42 < kanzure> becaues it is easier to observe myostatin inhibition than it is to figure out whether or not gene expression modulation in the brain is taking place 18:42 < kanzure> think of it as a precursor experiment 18:42 < genehacker> is this what you want to make with those weird recombination plant roots 18:42 < kanzure> maybe, it's certainly an option 18:42 < genehacker> you aren't going to... 18:42 < kanzure> although taq polymerase is also a candidate option 18:43 < genehacker> well let's make a DNA synth first 18:43 < genehacker> so 18:43 < genehacker> we need an anoxic chamber 18:43 < kanzure> why 18:43 < genehacker> don't you have to do DNA synthesis in an oxygen free environment? 18:43 < kanzure> what type of DNA synthesis? 18:44 < kanzure> because remember, DNA synthesis was originally done by pipetting shit in a lab 18:44 < genehacker> hmmm... 18:44 < genehacker> then why does posam do it in an anoxic chamber 18:44 < kanzure> Syringe method for stepwise chemical synthesis of oligonucleotides 18:44 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/Biology/Syringe%20method%20for%20stepwise%20chemical%20synthesis%20of%20oligonucleotides.pdf 18:44 < genehacker> yeah 18:44 < kanzure> posam is a different technique- an inkjet oligonucleotide arrayer thingy 18:44 < genehacker> I'll think I'll read some papers again 18:44 < kanzure> be sure to take notes. 18:44 < genehacker> why's it done in an anoxic chamber? 18:45 < genehacker> or I might hold off on this until after finals 18:46 < kanzure> drying 18:46 < kanzure> and control of relative humidity 18:47 < genehacker> oh that makes sense 18:47 < genehacker> this makes things easier for us ;0 18:48 < genehacker> so, we need to find if LCD screens pass UV 18:50 < genehacker> so one of the limits to how small we can make the spot on the slide is the wavelength of light 18:52 < genehacker> otherwise we need to figure out how to get some DMD chips 18:52 < genehacker> NOT THE ONES FROM GOLDMINE 18:57 < genehacker> http://www.invertercentral.com/qrySpecSheet.asp?page=srlp&model=L3P09X-25G01&Country= 18:57 < genehacker> this one looks like it should work 18:57 < genehacker> according to this paper 18:57 < genehacker> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6THG-4S0PK6W-1&_user=108429&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000059713&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=108429&md5=31060c0c6a75500c1e9022af03525872 19:00 < kanzure-> GASP-1 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=gene&Cmd=retrieve&dopt=full_report&list_uids=9737&log$=databasead&logdbfrom=protein 19:00 < kanzure-> (GASP-1 inhibits myostatin) 19:02 < kanzure-> aha, here we go 19:02 < kanzure-> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/150378450?report=fasta 19:03 < genehacker> ummm 19:03 < genehacker> that paper used a VERY tiny LCD screen 19:03 < genehacker> a very high res LCD screen 19:03 < genehacker> Screen size 18.5 mm × l3.9 mm 19:03 < genehacker> Pixel size 18 μm × 18 μm 19:03 < genehacker> Number of pixels 1028 × 772 19:03 < genehacker> NA >54% 19:04 < genehacker> Microlens Built-in 19:09 < kanzure> rats. GASP-1 is 5985 bp. 19:09 < kanzure> guess we'll have to build a DNA synthesizer. 19:09 < genehacker> http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3590.html 19:09 < genehacker> blast 19:09 < genehacker> not available! 19:09 < kanzure> or 19:10 < kanzure> just the primers 19:10 < genehacker> pretty cheap 19:10 < kanzure> so that we could copy it out of the human genome 19:12 < genehacker> It is expected that this technique can be applied to the fabrication of μTAS chips such as the flow channel with tapered shapes. 3D MEMS devices may also be fabricated without requiring a repetitive exposure procedure. In addition, this technique is expected to be applied to synthesis technology in DNA chip production because this technique can be applied for controlling the lighting area... 19:12 < genehacker> ...and exposure distribution in order to control various photochemical reactions. 19:12 < genehacker> heh 19:12 < genehacker> indeed 19:12 < genehacker> if we could only get that 13 by 18 mm LCD 19:13 < kanzure> have you read the papers that I have? 19:13 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Generation%20of%20laser-induced%20cavitation%20bubbles%20with%20a%20digital%20hologram%20-%20LCD%20-%20spatial%20light%20modulator.pdf 19:13 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Versatile%20stepper%20based%20maskless%20microlithography%20using%20a%20liquid%20crystal%20display%20(LCD)%20for%20direct%20write%20of%20binary%20and%20multilevel%20microstructures%20-%202007%20-%20awesome.pdf 19:13 < kanzure> http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Photolithography%20system%20with%20liquid%20crystal%20display%20as%20active%20gray-tone%20mask%20for%203D%20structuring%20of%20photoresist.pdf 19:19 < genehacker> http://cgi.ebay.com/Infocus-X2-Projector-BURNT-BULB-industrial-home-theater_W0QQitemZ170324893314QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item170324893314&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50 19:19 < genehacker> I think we have a winner 19:19 < genehacker> btw look up grayscale lithography 19:19 < genehacker> it's crazy 19:20 < genehacker> you can make wedges 19:25 < genehacker> http://cgi.ebay.com/Optoma-EP735-DLP-Projector-BROKEN-GOOD-FOR-PARTS_W0QQitemZ230339429134QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item230339429134&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 19:25 < genehacker> heheheheh 19:25 < genehacker> maybe we should try goodwill? 19:25 < genehacker> heard they have flat panel tvs real cheap 19:26 < kanzure> so, I'm moving in next to a harbor freight 19:26 < kanzure> and will have spending/project monies 19:26 < kanzure> is this dangerous? 19:35 < genehacker> yes 19:35 < genehacker> don't they sell cheap chinese mills? 19:36 < genehacker> yeah 19:36 < genehacker> they do 19:40 < kanzure-> how big?